Gen 1 General Ubers Generation 1 Discussion

[Theorymon]

UBERS GENERATION ONE​

WELCOME TO MEWTWO'S LAIR OF DESPAIR! That's right, since this is the first ever generation of Pokémon, it's also the least balanced by far! There are also lots of weird quirks with the battle system since this game went through some SERIOUS developmental hell. This metagame may be the most stagnant of the Uber metagames, but that's okay, lets talk about the absurdly unbalanced origins of Ubers!

Since this is the origin of Ubers, there are TONS of minute differences, bugs, etc. This thread will only cover the basic things that are relevant to people who are used to Ubers metagames. If you want to know ALL the differences, check out this handy article that was written by Vineon and evan: http://www.smogon.com/rb/articles/differences

Special thanks to:

Goddess Briyella for grammar checking these threads!
Fusxfaranto for compiling the Pokémon, Move, Ability, and Item lists!

Pokémon and moves that exist this Generation

Oh come on, do I REALLY have to show you all which Pokémon are allowed in this metagame? FINE, gotta be consistent I guess. Since there are only 151 Pokémon in this game and this game has less than half of all Pokémon moves in it, we won't be using the usual exclusion list. Instead, use your computer's Find function. If you don't find what you're looking for, it's because it doesn't exist in Generation 1!

Moves usable in Gen 1

Absorb
Acid
Acid Armor
Agility
Amnesia
Aurora Beam
Barrage
Barrier
Bide
Bind
Bite
Blizzard
Body Slam
Bone Club
Bonemerang
Bubble
Bubble Beam
Clamp
Comet Punch
Confuse Ray
Confusion
Constrict
Conversion
Counter
Crabhammer
Cut
Defense Curl
Dig
Disable
Dizzy Punch
Double-Edge
Double Kick
Double Slap
Double Team
Dragon Rage
Dream Eater
Drill Peck
Earthquake
Egg Bomb
Ember
Explosion
Fire Blast
Fire Punch
Fire Spin
Fissure
Flamethrower
Flash
Fly
Focus Energy
Fury Attack
Fury Swipes
Glare
Growl
Growth
Guillotine
Gust
Harden
Haze
Headbutt
High Jump Kick
Horn Attack
Horn Drill
Hydro Pump
Hyper Beam
Hyper Fang
Hypnosis
Ice Beam
Ice Punch
Jump Kick
Karate Chop
Kinesis
Leech Life
Leech Seed
Leer
Lick
Light Screen
Lovely Kiss
Low Kick
Meditate
Mega Drain
Mega Kick
Mega Punch
Metronome
Mimic
Minimize
Mirror Move
Mist
Night Shade
Pay Day
Peck
Petal Dance
Pin Missile
Poison Gas
Poison Powder
Poison Sting
Pound
Psybeam
Psychic
Psywave
Quick Attack
Rage
Razor Leaf
Razor Wind
Recover
Reflect
Rest
Roar
Rock Slide
Rock Throw
Rolling Kick
Sand Attack
Scratch
Screech
Seismic Toss
Self-Destruct
Sharpen
Sing
Skull Bash
Sky Attack
Slam
Slash
Sleep Powder
Sludge
Smog
Smokescreen
Soft-Boiled
Solar Beam
Sonic Boom
Spike Cannon
Splash
Spore
Stomp
Strength
String Shot
Struggle
Stun Spore
Submission
Substitute
Super Fang
Supersonic
Surf
Swift
Swords Dance
Tackle
Tail Whip
Take Down
Teleport
Thrash
Thunder
Thunderbolt
Thunder Punch
Thunder Shock
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Transform
Tri Attack
Twineedle
Vice Grip
Vine Whip
Waterfall
Water Gun
Whirlwind
Wing Attack
Withdraw
Wrap

Take a good look at the RBY dex for the Pokémon: http://www.smogon.com/rb/pokemon/

I'm not giving you the usual list for Pokémon because of a very important aspect of RBY talked about below...

The Special Stat

This is the reason I want you to look at our RBY dex! One of the biggest fundamental differences between Generation 1 and the rest of the franchise is the Special stat. Instead of having a Special Attack and Special Defense stat, Gen 1 just uses a stat that covers them both! This has huge implications for how the game works, since anything that's good at Special Attacking will also be good at taking special attacks most of the time!

By the way, let me leave you with a scary thought: Due to how stats work in this generation, if RBY Mewtwo were brought to Gen 6 unaltered, Mewtwo would have approximately the same bulk as a neutral natured 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Ho-oh, with near identical attacking power as your usual Mewtwo! Thank goodness all the other Pokémon have their stats maxed out in RBY!

EVs / Stat Experience

EVs are DRAMATICALLY different in this generation. Instead of allocating 510 EVs between six stats, you're able to simply max out every stat! This significantly alters many aspects of the game! For example, every Pokémon has maximum defensive investment, making things MUCH harder to take down! Also, you may find mixed attackers were you wouldn't usually expect, such as Tauros. Also, just remember that each Pokémon's stat is one point less than their neutral max in later generations, as Natures do NOT exist!

Abilities and Items

Abilities and Items have long been a part of Pokémon, but they didn't exist yet in this generation. While this does make this generation much simpler, it also means less for you to take into account when teambuilding!

Lack of Team Preview

This generation has no Team Preview, meaning that the first Pokémon on your team will be the first sent out 100% of the time. Choose your lead wisely! Also, this means you have no idea what's on your opponents team, though this is somewhat mitigated by low amount of Pokémon in Generation 1.

Typing Changes

Since this is the first generation, there are some pretty big differences in the type chart!

Steel-, Dark-, and Fairy-types: These don't even exist this Generation!

Psychic-type: Unlike past Gens, Psychic types are actually IMMUNE to Ghost-type attacks (granted, the only Ghost-type move this effects is Lick, since Night Shade ignores the type chart this generation). Also, Bug-type attacks in Generation 1 consist of only Twineedle and Pin Missile, and Psychic is the only type resistant to Psychic. So basically, this is just another reason Mewtwo is ultra scary!

Other typing changes: Fire-types are neutral to Ice-type attacks, and Bug and Poison are weak to each other.

Physical and Special Attacks

Generation 1 does not categorize if a move is physical or special individually. Instead, a move is physical or special depending on what type it is. Here are the types and what attack stat they correspond to.

Physical

Bug
Fighting
Flying
Ghost
Ground
Normal
Poison
Rock

Special

Dragon
Electric
Fire
Grass
Ice
Psychic
Water

Hazards

There are no hazards in this game whatsoever! This certainly decreases the pace of the game.

Critical hits

Critical hits are a strange beast in this Generation; let's go over the 4 main differences.

1. Critical hits do double damage, unlike Generation 6.

2. Critical hits this Gen are calculated off of Base Speed with this formula: CH%= BaseSpeedx100 / 512. For example, Mewtwo's critical hit chances are around 25%! That sounds pretty awesome, but there's a catch...

3. Critical hits ignore ALL stat modifications. For example, if your +4 Mewtwo gets a critical hit, you'll actually do LESS damage than you would have with a regular hit!

4. Moves with high critical hate ratios land critical hits around 99.6% of the time.

Status moves

Like most things in Generation 1, there are some big mechanical differences for statuses.

Freeze: When you are frozen solid, you will NEVER defrost unless you are hit by a Fire-type move or Haze. So if you get frozen, you pretty much just lost a Pokémon! Because of this, Ice Beam and Blizzard are very popular moves around here.

Sleep: In this generation, Pokémon don't attack the same turn they wake up, making Sleep even more debilitating than usual!

Toxic and Poison: Toxic poisoning will become regular poisoning after a switch out, making it way less prominent than later generations. Also, regular poison only chips off 1/16 of a Pokémon's HP per turn this generation. If you KO something while poisoned, you won't take poison damage on that turn.

Paralysis: If for any reason a Pokémon uses Agility, the speed lowering effects of Paralysis will be nullified until the Pokémon switches out. Also, unlike Generation 6, Electric types CAN be paralyzed.

Burn: If your Pokémon uses Swords Dance, the Attack drop will be nullified. Also, Burn only takes away 1/16 of a Pokémon's HP per turn this generation. If you KO something while burned, you won't take burn damage on that turn.

Trap Attack moves

Remember those lame moves like Wrap, Fire Spin, and Clamp? In this generation, when these moves trap the opponent, the opponent can't even move! Instead, the attacks will continue until the opponent is released. This means faster Pokémon can immobilize and keep attacking the opponent until the trapping move misses, and they also get a totally free switch if they so choose.

Explosion and Selfdestruct

While Explosion and Selfdestruct may have reductions in base power (Selfdestruct is base 130, while Explosion is base 170), they halve the opponent's defense right before firing off, still making them much more powerful than they are in Generations 5 and 6! So when you see Snorlax, watch out, it may go boom!

Phazing

Even though Roar and Whirlwind are Generation 1 moves, they always fail this generation, meaning that phazing simply doesn't exist!

Misses

Unlike any other generation, ALL moves but Swift can miss. 100% accurate moves have around a 0.4% chance of missing. This may not seem like much, but trust me, seeing your Snorlax miss Selfdestruct is one of the worst things ever!

Hyper Beam: Hyper Beam doesn't need to recharge if it KOs or hits a Substitute. This makes Hyper Beam an important STAB attack for Normal-types like Tauros!

Substitute: Unlike in any other generation, Substitute actually doesn't block any status moves except Toxic, which isn't a very good move this generation in the first place.

Blizzard: Blizzard has 90% accuracy this generation, making the move much more common!

Psychic: This move has a 30% chance of lowering the target's Special.

Fire Blast: This move has a 30% chance of inflicting a burn.

Rest: Rest does not remove the stat effects from paralysis and burn until you switch out. Also, there is no Sleep Talk this generation.

Reflect and Light Screen: These moves stay in place the entire time your Pokémon stays in the battle, but disappear once they switch out or once Haze is used.

Disable: Not only is this move only 55% accurate in this generation, but it also randomly disables one move for 0-6 turns instead of the last used move.

Double-Edge: This move is only 100 base power in this generation.

Rock Slide: This move doesn't flinch opponents in this generation.

Recover and Softboiled: For some reason, if your Pokémon's HP is 255 HP or 511 HP below its max HP,the move will fail.

Leech Seed: Leech Seed only absorbs 1/16 HP per turn. Also, Leech Seed only saps at the end of the opposing Pokémon's turn, meaning that only Pokémon that are faster than the opponent will get Leech Seed recovery on the turn of use. Toxic poison and Leech Seed operate on the same counter this generation, meaning that Leech Seed's sapping/recovering effect will double as well!

Night Shade and Seismic Toss: These moves ignore the type chart, so they hit every Pokémon regardless of immunities.

Other Changes

Various special moves: Gen 6 nerfed the power of a lot of special moves, such as Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Surf, Thunder, etc. These moves are more powerful this Gen!

Sound moves: These moves no longer ignore Substitutes.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Mew: HEY GUYS I HEARD THERE'S A PARTY!!! WASSSUUUUUP!

Mewtwo: Who the hell invited my dumbass brother to my party...​

 

[Az3]

Step 1: Use Mewtwo

Step 2: Win

Nothing really to discuss here.

 

[Aquasition]

Best Team for Gen 1 is Mewtwo, Mew, and 4 Mewtwo checks (note: NOT COUNTERS)

 

[Theorymon]

Step 1: Use Mewtwo

Step 2: Win

Nothing really to discuss here.

I'm not so sure about that. Don't get me wrong: Any team that doesn't use Mewtwo is probably a bad team. However, the last time I played Gen 1, the fact that the entire game was based around 1 Pokémon actually felt... sorta refreshing. There was less an emphasis on team building, and more about on the fly planning. I'm very rusty though, I haven't played this gen much since the old #stark cup tours we used to have!

 

[Inspirited]

Oddly enough, Mewtwo actually made Mew more of a threat than it really should have been since it can set up at least one Swords Dance against Forgetfulkiller Mewtwo (who will more than likely be scared out by the threat of a Thunder Wave) and begin nuking everything with Hyper Beam and Earthquake respectively. Mewtwo also means a free Thunder Wave for OHKO abuse Mew and a potential KO from it which is never fun to deal with. Both are strong threats in gen 1 and should never be entirely overlooked when team building, otherwise your Mewtwo might be more of a liability than anything.

Haven't played gen 1 since a weird little outgoing burst I had during early BW, so this might be an outdated way of thinking.

E: ApplepieFTW there is a gen 1 custom game battle type on Showdown, just ask around, but make sure your mons are legal pls :)

 

[Rotosect]

Mewtwo, Mew and Chansey are absolutely mandatory in Gen 1 ubers.
For the remaining slots I would pick 3 Ice Beam spammers with high special because scoring a freeze is the only surefire way to stop Mewtwo.
Self-Destruct/Explosion is also an option, but a smart Mewtwo user will see it coming and switch it out, making you waste your Snorlax/Cloyster.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

So is there a way we can play this? The PS! teambuilder doesnt support gen1 (moves, abilities/no abilities etc) and a tier isnt available. Does Joim 's Lab or any other server have it? This would be hella fun to play!

Theorymon! You put a lot of !'s in this post! I like it! I really do! It sounds so excited!

 

[Fireburn]

So is there a way we can play this? The PS! teambuilder doesnt support gen1 (moves, abilities/no abilities etc) and a tier isnt available. Does Joim 's Lab or any other server have it? This would be hella fun to play!

Theorymon! You put a lot of !'s in this post! I like it! I really do! I sounds so excited!

You can play using Custom Game for Gen 1. In the teambuilder just give each Pokemon moves and ignore Nature/EVs/Item/etc.

 

[asterat]

I like this tier. My team was something like Exeggutor/Mewtwo/Mew/Chansey/Slowbro/Snorlax

I actually think the concept this is Mewtwo land and Mewtwo ca 6-0 every single team is a bit flawed. I think perhaps the most dangerous set on my team was my SD/hyper beam/body slam/softboiled Mew. I figured gengar and rhydon wouldn't be around in ubers, so this would work out.

 

[Manaphy]

I distinctly remember Slowbro being a good choice in this tier because he's able to resist what Mewtwo normally runs (Psychic/Blizzard) and can Amnesia himself.

Not much to say about this tier though, it's amusing how broken it is but on the other hand games usually come down to who freezes or Crits first.

 

[Hack]

This metagame is plain unenjoyable and we shouldn't focus our resources on it. I've talked to user Isa, who is a prominent RBY player, and from what I have heard Mewtwo is just better than everything else on too many levels.

Just my 5 cents

 

[Kel9901]

the meta is so focused on beating/checking/stalling mewtwo though that mewtwo doesnt seem that much of a threat anymore with everyone running slowbro and light screeners. Mew is excellent, probably a bigger threat after adaptation is considered cause it's such a powerful physical threat with swords dance

edit: so what's happening to ruins of alph? is the old gens ubers discussions gonna come here now?

 

[Haruno]

the meta is so focused on beating/checking/stalling mewtwo though that mewtwo doesnt seem that much of a threat anymore with everyone running slowbro and light screeners. Mew is excellent, probably a bigger threat after adaptation is considered cause it's such a powerful physical threat with swords dance

edit: so what's happening to ruins of alph? is the old gens ubers discussions gonna come here now?

what the fuck? Even with mewtwo + 5 mewtwo checks, mewtwo still can potentially outpower anything due to the fact that it still has insane coverage. Recover/amnesia/psychic/ice beam isn't the only moveset you know.

 

[Kel9901]

what the fuck? Even with mewtwo + 5 mewtwo checks, mewtwo still can potentially outpower anything due to the fact that it still has insane coverage. Recover/amnesia/psychic/ice beam isn't the only moveset you know.

well if it's e.g. a ice beam+submission mewtwo, and you have slowbro, then it's probably not doing too much offensively. this can kinda be said about every mewtwo variant- the problem is that the meta is sooooo centered around mewtwo.

 

[Inspirited]

I think Haruno was referring to Forgetfulkiller running Tbolt and Blizzard which is the one I used the most in my gen 1 Ubers run awhile ago which murders Slowbro, Starmie, and Exeggutor in one set. The problem with Mewtwo is that it has a set for everything except Snorlax who can only threaten Mewtwo with Parahax from Body Slam or else risk blowing up on the wrong pokemon. Mewtwo has no one set for the meta to adapt around is the problem between variations of Forgetfulkiller, All Out Attacker, Barriertwo (Which takes dumps on SD Mew), and any other set Mewtwo can viably run(there are a lot). Sadly, Mew will never outshine Mewtwo because of Mewtwo's combination of terrifying Stats and a movepool containing all the right tools to abuse them with.

 

[Kel9901]

I usually prefer ice beam over blizzard as the extra pp is very important in wars vs chansey or opposing mewtwo