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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Can someone give me any good options for potential hazard setters, clearers, and pokes that fill both roles in the OU meta?
Offensively, Excadrill can lay both Stealth Rock and use Rapid Spin, while Skarmory can Defog and set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock.
Good users of Stealth Rock offensively include Deoxys-Speed, Garchomp, Tyranitar, Mamoswine, and Terrakion, while good defensive users include Ferrothorn, Heatran, Chansey, and Clefable.
Deoxys-Defense is also a great lead Pokemon who can set up both Spikes and Stealth Rock. Ferrothorn also has the ability to set up both types of hazards. Finally, while it's a pretty uncommon set, Greninja can technically lay down Spikes if need be.
Last night I heard more than few people talk about their success with Choice Scarf Excadrill as a Rapid Spinner, since he'll almost always go first to clear hazards, and has a poison immunity and rock resistance making him good against poison spikes and stealth rock entry hazards.
I run Defog Scizor, but he's mostly an offensive threat so you would probably have to ev train him for a more defensive role as a primary defogger.
Harder to get but Defog Latios/ Latias are great because they have awesome typing and leviate so spikes dont bother them.
Hazard setter I like are Garchomp and Tyranitar for their surprise factor, but more specialized hazard setter would be Donphan (Only as a support pokemon) because he has rapid spin and stealth rock, plus priority ice shard to 4x hit dragon flyers/ Garchomp.
Tentacruel is a great spinner since he has the ability to remove toxic spikes just by coming in with his sick water/ poison typing, and he can spread poison through toxic after he rapid spins.
EDIT- Lightning Luxray is spot on about Skarmory being great for both roles
Another question - can someone explain to me why physical attackers appear to be so much more common and viable threats than special attackers?
Tho not as strong as Heatran in most cases, Empoleon has the ability to defog and set up Stealth Rock like Skarmory, and pairs up very nicely with Landorus T and Gliscor, who can also set up Stealth Rock. Landorus T has more space on his moveset than Gliscor tho, who really needs all his moves for other things, and puts on more pressure than him.
The Hidden Power nerf as well as the weather nerf hit Special Attackers hard. There's also the fact that Swords Dance and Dragon Dance are much more widespread than Nasty Plot and Quiver Dance.
Since Game Freak added the pentagon for Kalos-native, I thought that they may add a region check for all games going forward. If that's the case, they could put move tutors in, say, ORAS, and not worry about the effects on competitions in Gen VII games and onward. So...
Does anyone think they will continue to lock out old moves on a per game basis?
If Game Freak did this, would Smogon ever limit, say, Gen VII OU, to use only Gen VII sets, and ignore transferable Gen VI or Gen V sets? Or does Smogon always accept any legal movesets from any generation?
Does anyone think they will continue to lock out old moves on a per game basis?
If Game Freak did this, would Smogon ever limit, say, Gen VII OU, to use only Gen VII sets, and ignore transferable Gen VI or Gen V sets? Or does Smogon always accept any legal movesets from any generation?
It's hard to tell what Game Freak will do sometimes. They may set up tutors in the upcoming reboots of Ruby and Sapphire or sequels to X and Y a la BW2, but we can't do much but wait and see. However, so long as a set was legal in a generation and transferable to the current generation, it is considered a legal set for that generation.wdcjernigan said:
I dont. I think they promote the new pokemon/ moves and play styles by making tournaments "Kalos Born" only etc but after some time they have reall and actually good torunaments with all the pokemon
I've been ninja'd twice, and perhaps this is a question that can be answered without doing a long list, but in case he wants to know why all of these Pokemon are used without looking it up, I'll right short paragraphs for most of them. Let's do this thing. First we'll start with hazard setters.
Now onto hazard removers. There are many more viable removers than setters, so I'll only cover a few of the best ones. Other choices include Mew, Starmie, Mega Blastoise, and Kabutops. Mega Absol can also bounce back hazards as they're being set.
As for your other question, in addition to what has already been stated, special attackers also tend to have less bulk than physical attackers, and there are less Pokemon that can wall physical attackers due to the fact that many of them carry boosting moves or can also go mixed. However there are still many special attackers which are just as dangerous as physical ones, including Greninja, Mega Charizard Y, Landorus, Keldeo, Clefable, Gengar, Aegislash (who can also be mixed) and Latios.
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Hey guys figured id find a couple Rotom-W fans in here. So. Im looking to run a VoltTurn strategy on my team, and have a choice banded Adamant scizor that has defog superpower, bulletpunch, and u turn with max attack evs and 248hp/ 8 sp def. I run choice specs jolteon with volt switch and the thing is a monster. But.. I hear that as great as Jolteon is offensively, Rotom-W would be a better Scizor partner since his water type cover Scizors vulnerability to Fire and Strong Water Attacks, while Scizors returns the favor with a resistance to Rotoms grass weakkness.
So. If I run Rotom-W which I think I will, Im trying to decide whether to run Modest Choice Specs with bilky/high sp atk evs for slow poweful volt switches, running modest choice scarf to hit not as hard but get in and out fast, or modest specs with alot of speed evs to outrun Jolly Breloom, Adamant Maoswine etc. I personally like the idea of either the first idea of modest specs, or scarfed. The last option im not sure about but Breloom would wreck it IF it even happens to be on the other team.
Appreciate any insight on using this trippy little electro dude
So. If I run Rotom-W which I think I will, Im trying to decide whether to run Modest Choice Specs with bilky/high sp atk evs for slow poweful volt switches, running modest choice scarf to hit not as hard but get in and out fast, or modest specs with alot of speed evs to outrun Jolly Breloom, Adamant Maoswine etc. I personally like the idea of either the first idea of modest specs, or scarfed. The last option im not sure about but Breloom would wreck it IF it even happens to be on the other team.
Appreciate any insight on using this trippy little electro dude
You mean Healing wish, not heal pulse :P. That would heal your opponents pokemon XD!Another question - can someone explain to me why physical attackers appear to be so much more common and viable threats than special attackers?
Latias is similar to Latios, but slightly different because of its access to Heal Pulse, which means that it can fully heal a weakened Pokemon on an offensive team. Unlike Latios, Latias will never be running an all-out attacking set and will always have Defog.
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I have run Specs Rotom W, and you usually end up getting disappointed about how little dmg he can take without investment. He also ain't that fast, I'd recommend modest Scarf personally.
Thanks for the heads up. You said without investment? What if i ran 252 sp atk, 252 hp. Is that different from what you run ran? And how did scarfed modest work out for you? Seems fast but worries about how much damage he actually does. Im really trying this time to make a great overall balanced competitive team
Excellent and comprehensive list, but there are a few more Stealth Rock users in OU that are definitely worth mentioning, specifically Tyranitar, Landorus, Landorus-T, Life Orb Deoxys-S, Terrakion, Heatran, and Hippowdon.I've been ninja'd twice, and perhaps this is a question that can be answered without doing a long list, but in case he wants to know why all of these Pokemon are used without looking it up, I'll right short paragraphs for most of them. but let's do this thing. First we'll start with hazard setters.
Deoxys-D is an extremely successful Pokemon because of its ability to act as a hazard lead with access to both Stealth Rock and Spikes. Its bulk and ability to either run a Mental Herb or Red Card guarantee it to set up at least Stealth Rock and two layers of Spikes. He functions best on heavily offensive teams, as although he has little offensive presence himself he is often sacrificed after he has laid down hazards, providing momentum. He can also lure in Bisharp (a common anti-lead against Deoxys-D) and OHKO it with Superpower.
Deoxys-S is not good when only being used as a hazard lead due to its frailty, which means that it won't be able to set up enough hazards for most teams. However, he is often used as a lead on rain teams (to set up rain) or dual screen hyper offense teams (to set up Reflect and Light Screen). He is often carrying Stealth Rock as well on those teams, allowing him to provide both hazard and rain/screen support for those teams.
Garchomp is a Pokemon that is used on heavily offensive teams that either don't rely as much on hazards to use Deoxys-D, don't like that Deoxys-D almost always needs to be sacrificed to provide momentum, or want a hazard setter with more offensive presence. His good offensive typing and access to strong attacks as well as Stealth Rock make him a good choice for teams that only need Stealth Rock.
Similarly to Garchomp, Mamoswine is an alternative choice to Deoxys-D for some teams. In addition to setting hazards, Mamoswine also has the ability to revenge kill many common Flying-, Dragon-, and Ground-types.
A choice for more defensive teams is Ferrothorn. While Ferrothorn has the ability to run both Stealth Rock and Spikes, it usually doesn't because of its inability to rack up enough damage with them, as it doesn't have a phazing move. However, Ferrothorn also has access to Leech Seed and checks or counters many Water-, Rock-, and Fairy-type Pokemon.
Another choice for defensive teams is Chansey, who sets up Stealth Rock. Chansey can easily switch into most special attacks and force the attacker out, meaning a free turn to set up rocks.
Skarmory is yet another choice for defensive teams. In addition to setting up Stealth Rock, Spikes, or both (although usually not both because using both often leads it to having four move-slot syndrome) it can also remove hazards with Defog or shuffle the opponent's team to rack up hazard damage. It also counters or checks many physical attackers that don't commonly carry attacks it's weak to, most notably it counters Mega Pinsir.
Shuckle is a little bit of a different hazard setter. It isn't seen often but provides good support for the teams that use it. Shuckle's sheer bulk means that it can almost always set up Sticky Web and Stealth Rock for teams with slower but powerful Pokemon. It can also prevent itself from becoming set up bait with Encore.
Now onto hazard removers. There are many more viable removers than setters, so I'll only cover a few of the best ones. Other choices include Mew, Starmie, Mega Blastoise, and Kabutops. Mega Absol can also bounce back hazards as they're being set.
While the Deoxys formes can't actually remove hazards, their access to the moves Taunt and Magic Coat means that they have the ability to prevent other Pokemon from setting up hazards early-game.
Without a doubt the best hazard remover is Excadrill. Its ability to defeat all relevant spinblockers combined with its versatility and access to Rapid Spin means that it is very successful. Its Mold Breaker ability allows it to defeat levitating spinblockers like Gengar, in addition to Aegislash. However, Aegislash can run Air Balloon, but Excadrill can also run Shadow Claw. It can also act as a revenge killer with a Choice Scarf or just as an attacker with Life Orb. It's best on offensive teams that need hazard support but don't want to use Defoggers (as Defog removes their own hazards as well).
Another great hazard remover is Latios. With great offensive stats, it is a wonderful Defogger for offensive teams. It can also feign an all-out attacking set as well as provide its team mometum with Memento, creating an opportunity for a sweeper to set up.
Latias is similar to Latios, but slightly different because of its access to Heal Pulse, which means that it can fully heal a weakened Pokemon on an offensive team. Unlike Latios, Latias will never be running an all-out attacking set and will always have Defog.
Mandibuzz is yet another Pokemon with Defog, although it's best situated on balanced or defensive teams. It can also counter/check Aegislash, one of the most dangerous Pokemon. In addition to Defog it can also heal itself with Roost (although most Defoggers can do this) and use Foul Play, Knock Off, and Toxic.
Skarmory is a defensive Pokemon with Defog, as previously mentioned. It is the only Pokemon that commonly both sets and removes hazards, as most Pokemon with access to both hazards and Rapid Spin/Defog usually have something better to do (such as Excadrill) or are not OU viable (such as Forretress).
Zapdos is more comparable to Mandibuzz as it fits on both on both defensive and balanced teams. However, unlike Mandibuzz (and most other Defoggers), Zapdos beats Bisharp and Thundurus, the two main Defog discouragers, much more easily and with more consistency.
Mega Scizor is another good Defogger, that fits on all sorts of teams, can feign an all-out attacking set or Swords Dance set, and has the ability to defeat Bisharp at the very least, although it will often have four move-slot syndrome. Because it's a mega, you unfortunately can't put it on ANY team.
As for your other question, in addition to what has already been stated, special attackers also tend to have less bulk than physical attackers, and there are less Pokemon that can wall physical attackers due to the fact that many of them carry boosting moves or can also go mixed. However there are still many special attackers which are just as dangerous as physical ones, including Greninja, Mega Charizard Y, Landorus, Keldeo, Clefable, Gengar, Aegislash (who can also be mixed) and Latios.
Also, you said Heal Pulse on Latias instead of Healing Wish, so you might want to fix that.
I never tried it without speed investment on specs, but without recovery, and the many things that could play around it, I don't think it will be that good. I personally had Timid, and my timid scarf Rotom was doing fine dmg. Ofc, you are welcome to experiment, but I think modest scarf is the way to go with non defensive Rotom :).
The issue with Drag-Mag this generation is that steels aren't required to block dragon spamming thanks to Fairies. This makes Drag-Mag much less effective since there are more walls that Magnezone can't trap. I believe that it can still be used, but you also need support to remove any fairies that would stop you (and probably have a separate solution for Aegislash, Heatran, and any steels that commonly carry strong ground or fighting attacks)Arhan said:
Woops, I meant to mention Landorus-T and Heatran, I forgot about the others, except for Landorus, which I figure won't be running Stealth Rock most of the time anyways since it already has 4MSS. I'll add them and fix the Healing Wish problem. For some reason I always say Heal Pulse.
On drag-mag: While drag-mag isn't as viable as it once was, I think it's mainly due to the nerfs to Magnezone and Magneton than to the nerfs to dragons. With Excadrill, Mega Mawile w/ Focus Punch, and Aegislash, as well as previously existing threats such as Scizor w/ Superpower and Heatran, they can't perform as well as they used to be able to. Magnezone and Magneton can also defeat most fairies however.
Awesome thanks alot for that. So what about EV's on a scarfed modest set? Non actual numbers, but what stats should I look into focusing on?
We do the obvious 252 sp.atk and speed, with 4 tossed into def or hp. Nothing to complicated :). Know you only asked for Ev's, bu the moveset is Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch and Trick. Hp Ice is no longer worth it due to the power drop, it does not even ohko Garchomp now, so Thunderbolt is nice for those times you need to stay in and atk.
I run Bulky Specs (252 HP / 252 SAtk Modest) and it works great. Doesn't take hits as well as defensive of course, but it can actually deal some serious damage, unlike the defensive lefties set (or the scarf set, for that matter):
4 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 170-204 (44 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA [Choice Scarf] Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 236-278 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 354-416 (91.7 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
He's also bulkier than you might think even with only HP investment:
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 124-147 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 135-160 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
And there's the simple fact that Rotom just isn't very fast to begin with, so speed isn't super duper beneficial to him. Plus, being slower than things can actually be helpful for a volt-turn strategy, especially on something bulky like Rotom-W, since it can take a hit and then volt switch out to even a check since the check won't have to take a hit. Or against other Rotoms, you usually want to be slower because then you get momentum because the other rotom volt switches out first, then you get to volt switch afterward when you see what your opponent switches into.
Other than Excadrill, what are some other Pokemon that can benefit from sand (other than Mega Garchomp, I guess)? Is Sand Force Landorus still viable? Are Stoutland and Heliolisk feasible options? Are there any Pokemon that weren't viable in sand last gen/didn't exist last gen that are viable in sand this gen? Are full sand teams viable, or only ones that are just Tyranitar + Excadrill? Are Sandstorm users viable?
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