Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Andrew]

i just want to say, Mega Medi is a joy to use. Nothing makes me happier than using Mega Medicham on a balanced team to destroy slower defensive teams. The rest of your teamslots can deal with Deosharp or whatever the fuck else. I think the benefits of using Mega Medi outweigh the cons, however I'm not sure if he should move up to A-. I would love it if he did though.

 

[daftmau5]

View attachment 14808Weavile for B-/B This has been on my mind for ages after testing this and I really think this needs to be brought up. Weavile is criminally underrated in OU, it has blistering speed, outspeeding bloody greninja, great attack and good stabs. Weavile checks a lot of OU pokemon such as thundy, both landos, both lati's, aegi, pinsir, dnite, gengar aswell as doing a ton of damage to everything and once a team is weakened, boy can this thing clean up. Knock off is the stab of choice to cripple walls and do a ton of daamge, ice shard lets it beat thundy withought being parad aswell as killing faster pokemon such as a +1 dnite/zard x or weakened deo s ect. This thing is actually really good and destroys offence once keldeo/bish are gone, is very threatening for balanced and once it gets up a sword dance it can clean weakened stall with ease. All though it has lots of pro's, weavile does have some crippling cons. Weaviles crippling 4x weakness to fighting really holds it back, aswell as its fire, steel and fairy weakness. Weavile is also extremely frail and can easily be taken out by scarfers and tflame aswell as being partially outclassed by bisharp. With all that said, weavile is still a great, underatted pokemon in the current meta.

Some calcs:

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 220-261 (65.8 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Once skarm is weakened it cant stand up to weavile at +2

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 421-499 (99.2 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
This thing breaks through mandy aswell

Those are just some, but the rest of stall is handled pretty easily. Although weavile can do a number to stall, its best against offence, if it gets up a sd, its pretty much gg. But even withought a sd, weavile can pretty much single handedly take out offence when bish/keldeo/terrak/loom are gone.

I'm glad you brought this up. Life Orb 4 attack (Ice Shard, Low Kick, Knock Off, Ice Punch) Weavile is an incredible offensive check against a truckload of common OU mons and a good revenge killer in general.

I've put together a bunch of somewhat unnecessary calcs to show off how amazing Weavile's stabs, base 120 atk and speed are.

Hide

• -1 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 437-520 (114.3 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 348-421 (108.7 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus: 218-257 (72.6 - 85.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 343-406 (95.8 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 432-510 (154.8 - 182.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 260-307 (95.5 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 395-468 (111.5 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 281-330 (132.5 - 155.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 198-234 (75.5 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 213-252 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 244-291 (63.5 - 75.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss: 406-478 (93.9 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 424-502 (140.3 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 468-554 (154.9 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 276-328 (85.1 - 101.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 593-697 (226.3 - 266%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 260-307 (85.5 - 100.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 307-361 (79.5 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 452-536 (111.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 354-416 (109.5 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 224-265 (78.3 - 92.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 432-510 (154.8 - 182.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gyarados: 299-354 (90 - 106.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 322-380 (82.1 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
  
• 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 387-458 (91.2 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

However when you consider Life Orb recoil, a Stealth Rock weakness as well as omnipresent priority in the form of Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, using Weavile tends to be a high risk high reward option.

I agree with perhaps a push up to B-. Hell, Volcarona is there and Weavile is arguably more useful than that.

As for Sylveon, it can actually force switches with Hyper Voice which makes it a better cleric/wish passer than Clefable imo. I've personally found Sylveon to be extremely useful on balance and managed to peak at #14 with it in a Mega Scizor team. Clefable wouldn't work nearly as well in my team as Keldeo is much better equipped to take on pokemon such as Keldeo and Greninja which maul my team and an overall superior cleric/wish passer due to Hyper Voice. At the same time, I'm well aware this suggests deficiencies in my team since I don't have a water resist lol.

 

[alexwolf]

Moved Weavile to B-.

 

[LZH14]

Megavoir: 68/65 defences with 100 speed. Megacham: 60/85 defences with 100 speed. Both get destroyed by any physical attacker that outspeeds them, which is plenty (particularly with priority). That's always going to limit their use. Personally, if I see them in team preview, they do not raise my fear.

Once you clean out fast priority and other physical attackers though they clean up and break shit. Honestly, if Scizor, Aegislash, and burd weren't just running around all willy nilly, they would both be A-. Or, you know, if those 20 attack points went to something useful.

On a side note, can someone explain to me why TTar is ranked the same as its mega? I'm not speaking against it, just wanna know what makes it so good, like what sets does each do better than the other, shit like that.

 

[kabbes]

Once you clean out fast priority and other physical attackers though they clean up and break shit. Honestly, if Scizor, Aegislash, and burd weren't just running around all willy nilly...

and Dancers. And Scarfers. And BD Azumaril. And generally stuff in higher speed tiers.
They're OK where they are, I think -- pretty good in the right team but they don't set the world alight.

On a side note, can someone explain to me why TTar is ranked the same as its mega? I'm not speaking against it, just wanna know what makes it so good, like what sets does each do better than the other, shit like that.

TTar can hold stuff, which makes it more flexible. But the Mega is more of a Hulk. Overall, similar utility. Personally, I prefer the standard so that I can mega something else that needs it more.

 

[Andrew]

Once you clean out fast priority and other physical attackers though they clean up and break shit. Honestly, if Scizor, Aegislash, and burd weren't just running around all willy nilly, they would both be A-. Or, you know, if those 20 attack points went to something useful.

On a side note, can someone explain to me why TTar is ranked the same as its mega? I'm not speaking against it, just wanna know what makes it so good, like what sets does each do better than the other, shit like that.

T-Tar that i have mostly used are either support or choice band (lol its not that bad) but ive heard good things about scarf too. obv it is great supporter of exca sand rush, can set stealth rock with defensive set and take out would be counters/checks with ice beam/fireblast. It is excellent with pursuit as well...i think with choice band it ohkos tflame, bulky as fuck...just a great supporter imo, excellent at doing his job, solid bird check, i could go on i guess, but i really think t-tars versatility and general usefulness be it defensive stealth rock or more offensive, able to have amazing mix bulk with def investment and sandstorm, bird resisting, powerful stone edge, crunch, earthquake...with spA investment ice beam can ohko garchomp and lando and lando t, while fire blast can ohko scizor and ferro iirc...with some investment pursuit takes out the lati@s...this thing is just rly great imo, ive mainly used him on sand team with exca and he can come in multiple times due to bulk and set sand and realky threaten opp unlike politoed as a weather setter..idk some other ppl probly know a lot more to say about t-tar

 

[kabbes]

Dragon Dance Jolly TTar achieves almost the same thing as DD Jolly M-TTar anyway. It gets largely the same OHKOs. It outspeeds mostly the same things, with just one or two notable exceptions. It survives mostly the same hits. And running Leftovers gives you recovery that the mega lacks. So why use up the mega-slot?

 

[alexwolf]

Once you clean out fast priority and other physical attackers though they clean up and break shit. Honestly, if Scizor, Aegislash, and burd weren't just running around all willy nilly, they would both be A-. Or, you know, if those 20 attack points went to something useful.

On a side note, can someone explain to me why TTar is ranked the same as its mega? I'm not speaking against it, just wanna know what makes it so good, like what sets does each do better than the other, shit like that.

Regular Tyranitar has multiple effective sets, namely Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and Smooth Rock supporter.

The Scarf set is an excellent revenge killer against a multitude of offensive Pokemon, such as Bisharp, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Latios, Latis, and Mega Charizard Y, and it's fast Pursuit is a great way to get rid of Pursuit weak targets without even the need to take a hit sometimes, such as Latios, Latias, Gengar, Aegislash, and Mega Gardevoir.

The CB set hits very hard and can take a lot of punishment too, making it a great tank, and is also a great trapper.

Finally, Smooth Rock Tyranitar makes Sand Rush Excadrill a monster, while also providing SR for its team, and checking a many dangerous threats, making it an excellent support Pokemon.

All those sets together make Tyranitar a definite A+ Pokemon.

On the other hand, Mega Tyranitar's best and only set is the Dragon Dance set, which is one of the best sweepers in OU, hence its placement in A+. You can pull off a support set with SR or something, but Tyranitar's ability to hold Leftovers or Smooth Rock makes it a superior choice in general.

Dragon Dance Jolly TTar achieves almost the same thing as DD Jolly M-TTar anyway. It gets largely the same OHKOs. It outspeeds mostly the same things, with just one or two notable exceptions. It survives mostly the same hits. And running Leftovers gives you recovery that the mega lacks. So why use up the mega-slot?

Because not outspeeding Greninja is huge. It's the fastest relevant unscarfed threat outside of sand / rain, and getting revenge killed by it seriously limits the effectiveness of a late-game cleaner and sweeper. The loss of power is very important, as is the loss of bulk, especially in the physical side. Mega Tyranitar has the ability to take even STAB Bullet Punch from Scizor if the need arises, and can tank even two super effective priority hits as long as they aren't item boosted or Mach Punch:

• 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 114-134 (33.3 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 150-176 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 7.8% chance to 2HKO

Yeah, Tyranitar can hold items, but even with the items taken into consideration, Mega Tyranitar is usually superior. If you use Leftovers, Mega Tyranitar is still bulkier initially, which is all that matters most of the time in order to get the DD boost. Meanwhile, it's also a lot stronger and faster. If you use Life Orb, Tyranitar may be stronger, but it's still slower, becomes vulnerable to getting worn down, and the opponent can revenge kill with priority users much easier, all of which are not worth the extra bit of power. Mega Tyranitar has the perfect combination of bulk, power, and Speed, which is what makes him such an excellent bulky sweeper. Take away any of that, and you have an inferior DD sweeper.

 

[kabbes]

Depends if you are aiming for a full sweep or just to punch some holes. DD TTar offers a *lot* of flexibility, which is the great thing about TTar in the first place. And unlike the Mega, people don't know it's coming. Dance and you have the benefit of band and scarf TTar in one, with the ability to change moves too. Don't dance and you still have something that can come in on a lot of hits it resists, hit something hard on the switch whilst regaining 1/16 health and then switch out again. Or double-switch to Excadrill, who then has four turns to wreck things in. Flexibility! Which you do will depend on whether the opponent has a Greninja or Scizor (most don't, after all).

Sure, M-TTar does it better. But regular TTar allows you to run another Mega, and that's huge. It allows you to have two win conditions on the team -- eithe TTar punches holes for the other sweeper, or holes are punched for it to sweep. To that end, I find that it pairs well with bulky DD M-Char-X or M-Gyarados.

 

[Punchshroom]

Depends if you are aiming for a full sweep or just to punch some holes. DD TTar offers a *lot* of flexibility, which is the great thing about TTar in the first place. And unlike the Mega, people don't know it's coming. Dance and you have the benefit of band and scarf TTar in one, with the ability to change moves too. Don't dance and you still have something that can come in on a lot of hits it resists, hit something hard on the switch whilst regaining 1/16 health and then switch out again. Or double-switch to Excadrill, who then has four turns to wreck things in. Flexibility! Which you do will depend on whether the opponent has a Greninja or Scizor (most don't, after all).

See the thing is, Mega TTar kind of does this by itself already. It doesn't have to setup the minute it enters battle (like Mega Pinsir), it can just throw out an incredibly strong attack right off the bat to soften foes up for an easier sweep later. You say people don't know what is coming from TTar, but prior to Mega Evolving, even Mega TTar can instill these mindgames in opponents; heck, even after Mega Evolving your opponent has to watch out for the ocassional Ice Punch. That said, I do get where you are coming from when you say Lefties helps regular TTar set up better while providing more utility, but the best kinds of utility Tyranitar can provide are SR, Pursuit, and surprise special attacks, which understandably have little to no place on a standard DD TTar set. Mega TTar's increased speed lets it outspeed Ninja after a Speed boost while also outspeeding all Bisharps / Adamant Mamoswines or Dragonites, has better bulk to take priority (which matter more than Leftovers longevity for a DD sweeper), and of course better power.

Sure, M-TTar does it better. But regular TTar allows you to run another Mega, and that's huge. It allows you to have two win conditions on the team -- eithe TTar punches holes for the other sweeper, or holes are punched for it to sweep. To that end, I find that it pairs well with bulky DD M-Char-X or M-Gyarados.

I'm not saying DD TTar is trash, but what you're doing is essentially "using LucarioDragon Dance Tyranitar as a replacement to Mega LucarioTyranitar" , and pretty much no one did that for Lucario. Trying to replicate a set which is eclipsed by its Mega just because of Mega clashes isn't really the solution; you can instead focus on attributes TTar has that Mega TTar does not, like pretty much every set bar Dragon Dance. You don't have to make TTar a DD variant to support your fellow DD sweepers; a simple Pursuit tank set to remove shit like Latios / a lure set to KO physical walls / CB to wallbreak everything and their mothers can provide the support you need more effectively as a whole.

 

[Gloating]

I think Tyranitar should be in S. Choice Band Ttar is really good in
the meta right now. Traps and kills:

The Lati Twins
Talonflame gets OHKO'd by Pursuit
Choice Band Dragonite locked into Extremespeed
Weakened Politoed
Non Focus Blast Thundurus
Zapdos fearing Stone Edge
Weakens Chansey or gets smacked by Stone Edge or Superpower

Good check against Drizzle teams which are common on the higher end of the ladder. Revenge kills Aegislash, Mega Mawile, with Earthquake quite nicely. Not to mention the raw power of Stone Edge, 2HKO's Skarmory after Stealth Rock, 2HKO's Mega Venusaur, and OHKO's many things outright. Sandstorm also boosts it's Special Defense and breaks Focus Sashes / negates Leftovers, Can run AV set too, Focus Sash, WP, Mega, Scarf. Amazing partner to Keldeo, Landorus, Mega Pinsir, Garchomp, Charizard Y, Excadrill. Why isn't this thing S-rank yet?

 

[Karxrida]

I think Mega Zard Y needs to drop, and hard. I'll post my reasoning later (I am NOT writing a Wall 'O Text on an iPod), but it needs to drop to somewhere in B, if not C.

 

[Durant]

I think Mega Zard Y needs to drop, and hard. I'll post my reasoning later (I am NOT writing a Wall 'O Text on an iPod), but it needs to drop to somewhere in B, if not C.

Even though I can agree with this:

 

[kabbes]

Regardless of the set you want to run, I think the last half dozen or so posts have certainly demonstrated why and how TTar is so good. It's a brilliant mon -- one if the very best.

The predictability of what it will be attacked with is also incredibly useful. You can see fight moves coming a mile off, for example, and make a favourable switch accordingly. That applies to both forms, of course.

 

[Zibbity]

It would be odd for a Pokemon with a relatively low base speed, vulnerability to burns, and 7 weaknesses to be moved up to S rank. Maybe it's me but I have always OHKOd Ttar with a fighting move, even with Low Kick from Bisharp. But TTar is brilliant at pursuit trapping, can be a special wall with Ass Vest, can be a Dragon Dancer, and has great coverage so it's A+.

Mega Charizard Y is a solid A+ Pokemon with few counters. End of discussion.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I think Mega Zard Y needs to drop, and hard. I'll post my reasoning later (I am NOT writing a Wall 'O Text on an iPod), but it needs to drop to somewhere in B, if not C.

Gross hyperbole is not how you start a discussion :<

 

[Karxrida]

I don't agree that Mega Zard-Y is a conclusion reached Pokemon. While I do agree that it should never be discussed for S rank anytime soon, I agree that Zard Y could potentially be dropped a bit lower, probably to A rank because A- seems a bit too low for a Pokemon that is still considered one of the best wallbreakers in the tier, and with Pursuit support it's insanely dangerous despite its predictability and how easy it is to check currently. The fact still stands that if Zard-Y gets a free switch into something, especially against offense (it does get plenty of chances to come in for free if played correctly so don't tell me it doesn't) something is going to die. However, I find it very difficult to compare it with other Pokemon that currently reside in A+ rank. Keldeo for example is a lot harder to check because of its Speed stat, it requires less support to do what it needs to do, and not being 4x weak to SR gives it a ton of opportunities to come in for free. Mega Pinsir also requires a decent amount of support to be successful, much like Zard-Y, however on top of the fact that it's an amazing hole puncher early game, it can sweep so easily once it sets up an SD and its few checks are weakened enough to be pick off by Quick Attack or straight up incinerated by Return. People talk so much shit about how Mega Pinsir is p bad right now but in all honesty I think it's still one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier, simply because it doesn't need to sweep to be successful. It can just come in and spam Return and weaken everything down to a point where it or something else cleans up. Anyways, I think A fits well for Zard-Y, but I doubt I'll be here long enough to see where it ends up so I don't really care lol. Just my 2 cents.

All in all, I think Zard-Y should be taken out of the conclusion reached section because it needs discussion. However, I don't want to see anyone nominating it for S, because I'm sorry, it's not an S Pokemon atm, and we've proven time and time again why it isn't.



HELLO ?_? Zard-Y is by no means hard to check, but saying it's comparable to niche shit that resides in C or B rank, that's just plain stupid lol. You're heavily underestimating a Pokemon that has fallen in viability, yet is still a fantastic Pokemon and is by no means on par with Salamence or Hydreigon.....I really do hope you're just exaggerating.

What I'm saying is that Y requires disproportionate amounts of support to function. Again, not going to elaborate until I can get on my computer, but the thing is overhyped.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Can I just ask why Deoxys-D is in S rank? I mean Stealth Rock and Spikes are nice, but what other purposes does it serve? Hazards are easy to get rid off with Defog and Rapid Spin, and it's not like DeoSharp/DeoGar can do anything about Excadrill or Mandibuzz for example... I think it would be fine in A or A-, but S rank just seems like stretching it too far :s

Thoughts?

 

[Baharoth]

Can I just ask why Deoxys-D is in S rank? I mean Stealth Rock and Spikes are nice, but what other purposes does it serve? Hazards are easy to get rid off with Defog and Rapid Spin, and it's not like DeoSharp/DeoGar can do anything about Excadrill or Mandibuzz for example... I think it would be fine in A or A-, but S rank just seems like stretching it too far :s

Thoughts?

The common argument is that its the best hazard setter (cant argue with that) and metagame defining due to its role in HO and because of that it deserves S rank.

However, with TTar/Drill beeing everywhere right now i realy feel like Deo/Sharps days are over so maybe the rest of the people here will wake up some time soon and demote Deo back to A rank where it belongs.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

What I'm saying is that Y requires disproportionate amounts of support to function. Again, not going to elaborate until I can get on my computer, but the thing is overhyped.

What disproportionate amounts of support? You need to be diligent about Defog or Rapid Spin support, but that's not something exclusive to Charizard Y nor something extremely demanding. In exchange you get one of the most dangerous nukes in the metagame with a powerful and spammable STAB, an ability that removes its Water weakness and boosts the power of its STAB to obscene levels, decent neutral coverage with Solar Beam and Focus Blast, a solid speed stat, reliable recovery, pretty good defensive typing aside from the Stealth Rock weakness, and respectable special bulk. Pursuit support isn't mandatory, but with something like Bisharp helping to weaken or remove Pokemon such as Chansey and the Lati twins, Charizard Y becomes extremely hard to switch into. I could understand if you wanted to drop it a notch to A or something since the Stealth Rock weakness is a bit of a letdown, and Pursuit support is important to remove key counters from play, but putting it in B or C is absurd.

 

[Srn]

i just want to say, Mega Medi is a joy to use. Nothing makes me happier than using Mega Medicham on a balanced team to destroy slower defensive teams. The rest of your teamslots can deal with Deosharp or whatever the fuck else. I think the benefits of using Mega Medi outweigh the cons, however I'm not sure if he should move up to A-. I would love it if he did though.

I hate mega medicham, here's why:
Too slow for the amount of bulk it has
Too little bulk
Lack of decent priority to make up for it.
Its strong af, and that's why its B+ in the first place, but its insanely easy for offense to check and its really annoying to get it in safely. Basically its a pokemon that sucks on paper in every aspect except attack but actually works out pretty well in play.

 

[Gary]

What I'm saying is that Y requires disproportionate amounts of support to function. Again, not going to elaborate until I can get on my computer, but the thing is overhyped.

So by disproportionate, you have to mean:

1. Hazard control: Something that is so fucking easy to fit onto a team because Excadrill is a god and Latios/Latias have good synergy with it. Putting something on a team to remove hazards is not really a problem this gen because of how good the removers are, so I don't really see the problem. Besides, Zard's damage output is worth it because once it comes in something is going to either die or take enough damage that they are forced to recover (allowing you to go into Bisharp to trap).

2. Pursuit support: Bisharp is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame, so being able to fit it on a team is great, so I don't see a problem? Bisharp beats and Pursuit traps the Lati twins AND wears down Chansey. Really the only thing left to worry about is Zard-X and D-Nite (once Multiscale is broken and it isn't CBB Nite than it's 2HKOed by Fire Blast LOL). After that, Zard-Y can come in and basically spam Fire Blast. It doesn't matter if you can easily check it the following turn, Zard-Y did its job by weakening the fuck out of everything or just straight up eliminating 1-2 Pokemon.

Other than that, the only other amount of support Zard-Y needs is basic offensive and or defensive support, which is something that every fucking Pokemon needs to succeed unless they're just incredibly self sufficient (Aegislash is arguably the best overall Pokemon in the meta and even it needs support). I understand that you haven't even explained yourself yet, but you're not nominating it for A-, you're nomming it for low B or high C rank, which is full of Pokemon that needs a ton of support to succeed, struggle to compete with other Pokemon above it, and have very little place in the meta. As much as I love Mega Zam, it doesn't even come close to being as good as Zard-Y when it comes to being successful and worthy of a teamslot. I'm just trying to explain to you that there's no way that's possible.

You can argue for it all you want, but there is absolutely no way Zard-Y is going to be dropping anywhere NEAR the B range. It's foolish and absurd, and I don't even understand how anyone who's played or seen the meta can say that Zard-Y is overrated, because it's not at all. It's dropped in viability, but not to a point where it starts becoming comparable to Crawdaunt and Mega Houndoom lol.

 

[Gloating]

Bisharp is a shaky answer to Lati@s as they commonly run HP Fire and sometimes HP Fighting.

Any other thoughts on Tyranitar for S?

 

[Gary]

Bisharp is a shaky answer to Lati@s as they commonly run HP Fire and sometimes HP Fighting.

No it's the opposite. Latias and Latios need to rely on hitting it on the switch. If Bisharp comes in for free, it creates a 50/50 where Bisharp is either going to Sucker Punch predicting that or Pursuit as they switch out, AKA the 50/50 is in Bisharp's favor. Besides, if Latias rarely chooses to run HP Fighting because it needs Roost to be a reliable switch into Zard-Y, which it would have to give up for HP Fighting because it needs Draco Meteor and giving up Psyshock is also risky. Latios on the other hand after a Fire Blast from Zard-Y and LO damage if it predicts the Bisharp is basically dead, and now Zard-Y is going to have a much easier time dealing with it.

Basically, the sheer presence of Bisharp on a Zard-Y team is enough to immensely pressure the Lati twins to a point where they're pretty much always going to struggle to beat the pair no matter what. Bisharp is a very solid answer to them both, regardless of what they carry.

 

[AM]

Yeah Charizard Y shouldn't be below the A rank category as a whole unless something huge changes that in the future. That's basically saying that something like Amoongus is on the same level in terms of viability as Charizard Y. To me that seems outrageous when you really look at the viability of the B and C rank mons individually and as a whole.