Mastering The Maison: A comprehensive Guide to the Kalos Battle Maison

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Okay, I am very sorry for the HUGE gaps in time in working on this, exams and post-exam period of celebration is over. NoCheese I love what you've done, i was thinking of maybe us pulling up a PiratePad together and working on it at the same time, I'm GMT+0 (UK), so if we can organise a time that would be great.

I have all the trophies except Rotation, I'm still working out a team for that.

Mastering the Maison sounds very nice :)
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
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Okay, I am very sorry for the HUGE gaps in time in working on this, exams and post-exam period of celebration is over. NoCheese I love what you've done, i was thinking of maybe us pulling up a PiratePad together and working on it at the same time, I'm GMT+0 (UK), so if we can organise a time that would be great.

I have all the trophies except Rotation, I'm still working out a team for that.

Mastering the Maison sounds very nice :)
I'm traveling right now so won't be able to do much for the next ten days or so, but that sounds pretty good. And I like Mastering the Maison too!
 
I was thinking about using a mega lucario in the battle maison, along with talonflame and garchomp. is mega lucario viable in the maison? i know mega kanghaskhan is pretty insane to use, but i want to try mega lucario too. what would be the best set for mega lucario?
 

PISTOLERO

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
I was thinking about using a mega lucario in the battle maison, along with talonflame and garchomp. is mega lucario viable in the maison? i know mega kanghaskhan is pretty insane to use, but i want to try mega lucario too. what would be the best set for mega lucario?
You'd probably be best off going with an all out attacker, as it is hard to set up in the Maison (random thunder waves, will-o-wisps, dangerous moves etc coming out of nowhere)

Jolly, 252 atk, 4 spdef, 252 speed
Close Combat
Crunch
Bullet Punch
Extremespeed

that's what I would use to clean up, as it's obscenely powerful, and two types of priority are nice. you could try Ice Punch if you have access to it, and something else of interest is Power Up Punch over Extremespeed, as it has the same base power and you can use it if it'll KO, whilst getting an attack boost. Khan is stupidly powerful in the Maison too, and other fun things to try are Pinsir (works wonders for me in triples), Mawile (works quite nicely in singles) and Charizard :)
 

cant say

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Aman Garg special Lucario has been proven to be viable in doubles, so I assume it can also do work in singles. What are you planning to do with it though? Build a potentially massive streak or just clear the boss? Personally I think it's too frail to go deep into a streak without proper team support. As a mega it gives up it's item slot so it can't guarantee a safe setup as often as say something like lum berry - multiscale dragonite. It works well in doubles as it has the support of it's team mates but in singles it's all on it's own.

I was planning on using it on a singles team consisting of it, Dragonite and Volcarona but never got around to it. Hopefully you can find a combination that works!
 
This is awesome work; thanks LustrousPalkia and NoCheese ! I've mostly read through NoCheese's write-up, which seems to be a bit more detailed (and like, NoCheese has won a shitload of battles, guys).

With regards to the AI, there are a few things that seemed a bit inaccurate. First, the AI actually doesn't use Fake Out all that consistently. I haven't found out exactly what situations lead it to use Fake Out 100% of the time and which make it more an occasional thing, but it's not just whether or not they have another move that can OHKO. I've seen Mienshao 4 and Kangaskhan 4 use a different move on turn 1 against Whimsicott (Mienshao used High Jump Kick, Kangaskhan used Substitute; I've seen Khan use Sub on the first turn on more than one occasion).

I'll second Protect being inconsistent, but in my experience, the AI does tend to have somewhat of a tendency to use Protect every other turn. It's definitely not 100% (sometimes they'll attack consecutive turns) and you'll lose some battles if you try to treat it like it is, but I've managed to set up Aegislash unharmed by setting up on Protect turns (where the alternative is having Aegislash lose about half its health). Of course, this could all just be illusory correlation, but I've used it enough (taking a slight risk to get a moderate gain because I believed the AI would use Protect) that I think it's worth noting.

Another point regarding the AI: when the AI has one attack that's clearly strongest (e.g. against Togekiss, Rhyperior 4's Rock Slide on its Rock Slide/EQ/Hammer Arm/Protect set), it will basically always choose that strongest move (it's a bit more iffy if there are moves with similar power but different secondary effects, such as Bug Buzz and Air Slash against neutral targets). When it runs out of its strongest move, the AI seems to just spam random-ass attacks (that your Pokemon isn't immune to). I have won battles because Glaceon 4 used Signal Beam against Gliscor after it ran out of Blizzard, even though Shadow Ball is clearly a much better move to use. So switch-PP-stalling is awesome, but you have to remember not to rely on it once the AI runs out of PP for one of their moves.

Togekiss is one of my favorite Pokemon and I owe it a huge debt, but honestly, I don't think it's very good outside of the role I used it for. TrickScarfing is largely pointless, since the AI will switch out anyway and Togekiss will be locking the opponent into a lot of moves you won't want to switch into unless you have an immunity (Thunderbolt? Yeah, paralysis is bad. Ice Beam? Unless you're Suicune, freeze will be pretty annoying. Flare Blitz? Oh god, your Pokemon is burned and dead...again, unless it's Suicune), and its stupid bulk with lead the opponent to use a lot of non-attacking moves (leading them to switch out two turns later, so you can't capitalize on it). It's not very good at pure offense either; its low speed and lack of cool tricks means you're often better off just using Gengar. Unless the opposing lead is slow and you flinch them to death (which means using Air Slash too often; 95% accuracy is bad if you rely on it too much), Togekiss will take a hit or two while taking out the opposing lead, allowing the AI to switch in a Pokemon that can capitalize on its numerous weaknesses. And oh God, those weaknesses. It worked on my team because I didn't even try to have my other two Pokemon counter its many weaknesses (and I count Fire as a "weakness," even though it's not, because Fire moves hit hard and are a pain to switch in on); I just LET Togekiss get 2HKO'd while the opposing lead fell asleep, then used that to set up Mega Kangaskhan and smash faces. It's not good as a back-up either, because the reason it worked as a lead on my team was that it didn't rely on having to switch in and take damage. That extra hit makes it easy to KO with one of its numerous weaknesses. Togekiss's niche is having cool support moves and almost always surviving the first hit (and having solid power to use against certain annoying opponents), and its typing gives it superb resistances that complement common sweepers. But (relatively) slow bulky Pokemon like Togekiss still die ALL the time, and if Togekiss dying isn't part of your strategy, you'll probably find yourself in a lot of trouble when trying to use it.

LustrousPalkia, I had a Dragonite/Aegislash/Gliscor team that actually got to 523 wins (I didn't post it because it didn't break my streak and Dragonite and Aegislash are so common already). It's a pretty good streak, given that two team members have a 4x weakness to Ice (I actually lost to a misplay during a PP-stall war that led to Gliscor killing itself with Struggle recoil when a third Pokemon Virizion had like, 1 HP left). I couldn't recreate that success on subsequent attempts, though, because a lot of things punched open holes in the team that left me vulnerable to stuff like Froslass and Greninja. Gliscor is still absolutely amazing, but in my eyes, running anything besides a Jolly nature is a bit of a waste of potential. When I played it right, Gliscor didn't take hits at all, it just PP stalled or scouted for misses/non-attacking moves until it got a good opportunity to strike with Toxic. But if you give up the +Speed nature, you're outsped by Moltres 3 and 4, Porygon-Z 4, Typhlosion 4, Charizard 4, and Magmortar 4. A lot of teams really don't like Fire-types (even Suicune can be very annoyed by Moltres' Air Slash flinches), while Porygon-Z has a lot of PP and can make itself annoying with Download. I never really found myself wishing for more physical bulk, but that speed was awesome. Unless there are specific physical attacks you're aiming to block (and you should have some extra EVs to help if you cut out some HP EVs to get to a Leftovers number, so you may not even need the +Def nature for that), I would probably recommend sticking with Jolly.
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
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I've let this article slide for too long, but I'm back making edits again. We still need to discuss multis some, perhaps add some more Pokemon to the recommended Pokemon lists (Gliscor in particular has proven its worth), update/correct the discussion of AI tendencies, and do the unexciting but necessary task of describing BP costs of various items and the movesets of the chatelaines' Pokemon. LustrousPalkia and I also need to talk about whether we should add an in depth threat section or just a loose summary of things to worry about. I lean towards the latter (as this is already leaning towards a massive and very detail-specific article).
 
Hey, i got a question that i'm hoping any of you know the answer too (as it's risky for me to test it) Atm i'm in super multi battles with a great friend of mine and I reached 43 streak atm (so the battle keepers will come soon) but his streak is diff. from mine because i had a few wins with an AI already. I already discovered that he gains the bp i would gain e.g. if i gain 5 bp from being in 21+ streak while he is 18 or such he also gains 5 .
But here's the question: If i reach 50, the point where the catelaines' come out, will he also get that fight even though he isn't at 50? or will he have to catch up a few fights while my streak is pauzed?
Thanks in advance!
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hey, i got a question that i'm hoping any of you know the
But here's the question: If i reach 50, the point where the catelaines' come out, will he also get that fight even though he isn't at 50? or will he have to catch up a few fights while my streak is pauzed?
Thanks in advance!
Honestly, I'm not 100% sure on that, as my only multi play has been with an AI partner. Try asking in the Smogon battle maison thread here and I'm sure someone will be able to confirm.
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Hey guys, would you like me to HTML this n_n?
That's a very kind offer, but not needed yet, as we are still WIP. I've been devoting energy elsewhere of late (lots and lots of SCMS fixes to pokedex entries), but really should try to put some more time back in here, as with some steady work the article isn't super far from being complete, at which point I'd certainly love to get it HTMLed and in the form necessary for going on-site.
 
That's a very kind offer, but not needed yet, as we are still WIP. I've been devoting energy elsewhere of late (lots and lots of SCMS fixes to pokedex entries), but really should try to put some more time back in here, as with some steady work the article isn't super far from being complete, at which point I'd certainly love to get it HTMLed and in the form necessary for going on-site.
Oh, didn't even notice! My bad! Will definitely watch this thread haha and will do it when the time comes :>.
 
I personally have had great success using zoroark in the maison, because the AI will never realize that you are, even after the "conkeldurr" has used dark pulse. The set I usually run is nasty plot+flamethrower+dark pulse+grass knot, holding a focus sash
 
I have been using this team for a few days now and it works pretty well

1Durant
Truant ability
Jolly nature
holding Choice Scarf
with Entertainment move (No need for other moves)

2Gyarados
Intimidate/ Moldbreaker ability
Adamant nature
holding Gyaradosite
with Dragon Dance, Protect, Waterfall, Substitute moves

3Garchomp
Roughskin ability
Jolly nature
Holding Leftovers
with Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Substitute, Draco Meteor moves
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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Hey there RandomStuffs and welcome to Smogon!

We actually have a thread set up for the general discussion of the Maison which you can check out here. This thread is instead being used to create a guide which may one day make its way onto the main site, so it's not recommended to post here unless you are contributing to that in some way.

Truant Durant is a very popular strategy that has seen some huge streaks already, so check out some of the best streaks in the OP of the thread I linked you to, and see if what people have written about the strategy can help you!
 

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