XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Limitless]

Alright, I was a bit harsh with Goodra. I didn't factor in its pretty clutch ability to lower the speed of the opponent. I'll move it up to B rank.

 

[Bouff]

i dont rly give a shit about either mons ive already gave muh two cents

But i'd just like to nominate Gothorita for B Rank, maybe higher. This thing is severely underrated, and is also pretty much the bane of stall. Due to Shadow Tag, it practically gets to choose what it wants to set up on and wear down, such as Blissey, Slowbro, Florges, Aromatisse, and nearly every other mon that's commonly run on stall, barring shit like Sableye. While it's not /too/ great facing offense, due to shit like Heracross and Krookodile, it has enough of a niche to be viable in the current metagame, and can also give support to shit that hates special walls, like Alakazam, NP Infernape, Celebi, etc. While it can't break as much stuff as shit in B+ or A- like Chandelure, Nidoqueen, or Porygon-Z, it still has a pretty large role in the meta

 

[Limitless]

i dont rly give a shit about either mons ive already gave muh two cents

But i'd just like to nominate Gothorita for B Rank, maybe higher. This thing is severely underrated, and is also pretty much the bane of stall. Due to Shadow Tag, it practically gets to choose what it wants to set up on and wear down, such as Blissey, Slowbro, Florges, Aromatisse, and nearly every other mon that's commonly run on stall, barring shit like Sableye. While it's not /too/ great facing offense, due to shit like Heracross and Krookodile, it has enough of a niche to be viable in the current metagame, and can also give support to shit that hates special walls, like Alakazam, NP Infernape, Celebi, etc. While it can't break as much stuff as shit in B+ or A- like Chandelure, Nidoqueen, or Porygon-Z, it still has a pretty large role in the meta

I'm sure it's getting banned soon, so I don't really care about it.

 

[dingbat]

Hydra imo is teetering between A+ and S, but with the few new checks that came with the June drops, I think Hydra has slipped a little bit and should be A+ rank. However, A+ is the absolute minimum it should go since, like Lucario, it is dangerous on multiple fronts with its specs set, scarf set, and the Mixed Life Orb set, which has gained a lot of popularity with more stall-oriented teams on the rise.

Zam is pretty damn close to broken imo and should be S rank. See posts above, especially Kitten Milk's.

And Limitless if Gothorita actually ever gets banned, does that mean people are gonna start attempting to use lolGothita? Just food for thought :p

 

[Limitless]

Hydra imo is teetering between A+ and S, but with the few new checks that came with the June drops, I think Hydra has slipped a little bit and should be A+ rank. However, A+ is the absolute minimum it should go since, like Lucario, it is dangerous on multiple fronts with its specs set, scarf set, and the Mixed Life Orb set, which has gained a lot of popularity with more stall-oriented teams on the rise.

Zam is pretty damn close to broken imo and should be S rank. See posts above, especially Kitten Milk's.

And Limitless if Gothorita actually gets banned, does that mean people are gonna start attempting to use lolGothita? Just food for thought :p

I couldn't have said it any better.

Hydreigon is moving down to A+ rank, while Alakazam is being added to S rank. The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Mew and Slowbro.

 

[Pipotchi]

Wait we're starting from the top again? New stuff is gunna drop all the time, and the stuff at the bottom of the list is never gunna get discussed :S

Anyways Slowbro is still S tier imo.. while stuff has dropped such as Hydreigon and Alakazam who can deal with it, Slowbro is able to still beat physical versions of lucario (as well as special versions without shadow ball). The ability to switch repeatedly back in to take additional attacks works very well against the suicide wallbreaker attackers of the tier such as darmanitan and victini. Even the stuff that can break through it physically such as Honchkrow can be really hurt by thunder wave sets, and if they mispredict they can still end up dying. Slowbro is just such a pain to be on the enemy team because halfway through the game you start having to predict perfectly every move in order to not let Slowbro switch-in and undo all of the damage you put onto it previously.
Most of that is old news so here's my opinion on the new stuff that has dropped:

Alakazam: generally beats the current popular slowbro set, but I wouldnt be surprised if with the new powerful special attackers and mixed attackers dropped such as infernape and lucario if Slowbro starts picking up assault vest more in this tier. If he does, shadow ball starts dealing 37 - 43.6% and alakazam becomes a lot more manageable, plus thunder wave is pretty scary for him (plus slowbro's own shadow ball will 2hko back)

Infernape: slowbro beats it im pretty sure

blissey: calm variant gets 2hkod by psyshock while not being able to really touch outside of toxic, bold version with toxic can force it out but can also be used as a free switch-in to heal with regenerator.

lucario: beats the physical versions, even crunch is not a 2hko and both psyshock and scald are hard to deal with in return. special sets have their STABs resisted and shadow ball will deal 55% to slowbro which means it can break through.

goodra: physical verison is obviously not much of an issue and special version cannot break assault vest slowbro

Overall I dont think slowbro has been made any worse by the newer arrivals. He might have to change his set to assault vest tho (which may force him to drop a tier due to the inability to blanket wall the entire physical half of the meta?) but he still sits somewhere near the top of UU imo

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Mew should still be S: It's still Mew. Nothing can outclass Mew, due to it's ability to run a lot of different sets. The only hit it really took in this shift was it's NP set getting competition in the form of Alakazam, otherwise all it's sets are as good as ever.

Slowbro should move down to A+: Slowbro AV set is now getting very stiff competition from Goodra, and there's just a lot of upper tier stuff it can't take on right now. Hydreigon, Heracross not locked into CC, Houndoom-Mega, Offensive Roserade, Shaymin, and Honchcrow all check/counter it, and that's just down to A-Rank. It was S-tier at the beginning of the gen for sure, but the meta has adapted to shit on it

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Slowbro is S because its massive overall bulk, excellent set of resistances and access to dual recovery in regenerator+slack off allows it to wall and scout a large portion of the tier, scald can cripple its own counters and calm mind allows it to serve as an excellent win condition for any team, i dont see what changed to make it any less viable, the popularity of infernape is good because slowbro beats any set that lacks nasty plot, goodra is setup fodder, blissey will usually force it out but depending on the circunstances (prior damage) slowbro might be able to take her down and sd lucario will usually lose if it doesnt have at least two hazards on the field due to life orb recoil and prior damage it took while setting up (not to mention scald's burn).

 

[Jacks0n]

Mew should still be S: It's still Mew. Nothing can outclass Mew, due to it's ability to run a lot of different sets. The only hit it really took in this shift was it's NP set getting competition in the form of Alakazam, otherwise all it's sets are as good as ever.

Slowbro should move down to A+: Slowbro AV set is now getting very stiff competition from Goodra, and there's just a lot of upper tier stuff it can't take on right now. Hydreigon, Heracross not locked into CC, Houndoom-Mega, Offensive Roserade, Shaymin, and Honchcrow all check/counter it, and that's just down to A-Rank. It was S-tier at the beginning of the gen for sure, but the meta has adapted to shit on it

The thing is, those pokemon were there from the beginning and it was still S. Its insane bulk, great resistances for UU, and awesome recovery in regen + slack off make it amazing. It should be S because of the large portion of the meta it walls or checks, as well as having insanely good recovery and an excellent calm mind set.

I think Mew is now an A+ rank pokemon. People used it as a great check to the nido's, while now blissey walls them much better. People also used it to stallbreak, and now people are realising how friggen amazing sableye is (I actually think it should maybe be banned lol) at stall breaking. The reason you use mew is to stall break, check the nidos and defog. It still has other good sets like sd and nasty plot which are really suprising and catch people of guard. All in all mew is still great, but I think A+ is a better home for it than S atm.

 

[Boltaway]

Mew should still be S: It's still Mew. Nothing can outclass Mew, due to it's ability to run a lot of different sets. The only hit it really took in this shift was it's NP set getting competition in the form of Alakazam, otherwise all it's sets are as good as ever.

Nitpick, but Mew is outclassed in a few cases. It has the potential to run a multitude of sets, but like Smeargle, it really doesn't because only or two sets are not outclassed in this metagame. I never saw much of NP Mew to begin with and I never found it that effective. That being said, it takes the role of special wall and defogger exceedingly well and I agree it should remain S-rank.

 

[Limitless]

The thing is, those pokemon were there from the beginning and it was still S. Its insane bulk, great resistances for UU, and awesome recovery in regen + slack off make it amazing. It should be S because of the large portion of the meta it walls or checks, as well as having insanely good recovery and an excellent calm mind set.

I think Mew is now an A+ rank pokemon. People used it as a great check to the nido's, while now blissey walls them much better. People also used it to stallbreak, and now people are realising how friggen amazing sableye is (I actually think it should maybe be banned lol) at stall breaking. The reason you use mew is to stall break, check the nidos and defog. It still has other good sets like sd and nasty plot which are really suprising and catch people of guard. All in all mew is still great, but I think A+ is a better home for it than S atm.

Exactly.

Mew is moving down to A+ rank, while Slowbro is staying in S rank. The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Florges and Heracross.

 

[panamaxis]

I think both are still comfortably S.

I'll start with slowbro. Slowbro is so damn reliable. It's one of the best defensive pivots, it can stick around forever to counter/check scary fire types as well as just random hard hitting physical stuff that isn't hitting it. And it's still pulling its weight vs defensive teams too by the ability to lategame sweep with CM and check crocune for e.g. I could go on but I think we all know what slowbro does at this point, so for being so reliably and easy to use, S for me.

Mew I think is another easy S. It is, bar none, the most reliable defogger in UU. It has amazing team support in wisp + defog + reliable recovery + knock off + taunt (obv can't run them all but pick and choose). The stallbreaker set i don't think is as broken as it once was but it can still wrecks teams. I find it pretty rare that mew can't pull its weight in a match. It owns pretty much every hazard setter so it is perfect for teams that don't want to deal with hazards. It can check some very hard to check mons like the nidos. The fact that you can still get donked by NP/SD/random BP sets gives mew that extra dimension as well, which helps keep it in that S rank for me.

Both still S rank in my opinion

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Florges should go down to A because the introduction of Blissey makes aromatisse the prefered fairy on most cores, but shouldnt drop any further because it still holds advantages in its massive special bulk and superior special attack, yeah there really inst much to talk about this one. Heracross is really strong in this meta, choice band sets are ridiculously hard to switch in outside of florges/aromatisse (both lose eventually if your team has a phazer) and crobat (stealth rock weak) and can find plenty of opportunities to come in due to guts, great bulk and key to resistances to fighting, ground and bulk, notably letting it check mienshao and making it one of the few physical attackers that can go toe to toe with hippowdon and win everytime. Swords Dance are a pain for defensive teams to face and can be a nasty surprise for anyone expecting the usual choice locked moves but i havent seen it much so i wont go too deep with this. Overall i think heracross can stay where it is on A+ because despite how great it is, its terrible speed makes it fairly easy to revenge kill even without scarfers and it suffers from having a fire weakness in this tier.

 

[Bouff]

Ok, so I think Florges should move down to A. It's kinda outclassed by Blissey now, due to its larger Wishes, arguably better special bulk, and obviously better ability. You could argue that Florges has better typing, isnt set up on as easy, and can take a physical hit, but then in that regard its just outclassed by Aromatisse (who also has larger wishes). With that being said, Umbreon should probably drop down to A- for the same reasons; it's probably even more of a set-up bait mon than Florges, and while it can be a p good answer to shit like Chandy and Zam, it can't handle mons like Lucario and Infernape who pretty much shit all over it, which is enough to make it drop to A- imo.

 

[dingbat]

I think both are still comfortably S.

I'll start with slowbro. Slowbro is so damn reliable. It's one of the best defensive pivots, it can stick around forever to counter/check scary fire types as well as just random hard hitting physical stuff that isn't hitting it. And it's still pulling its weight vs defensive teams too by the ability to lategame sweep with CM and check crocune for e.g. I could go on but I think we all know what slowbro does at this point, so for being so reliably and easy to use, S for me.

Mew I think is another easy S. It is, bar none, the most reliable defogger in UU. It has amazing team support in wisp + defog + reliable recovery + knock off + taunt (obv can't run them all but pick and choose). The stallbreaker set i don't think is as broken as it once was but it can still wrecks teams. I find it pretty rare that mew can't pull its weight in a match. It owns pretty much every hazard setter so it is perfect for teams that don't want to deal with hazards. It can check some very hard to check mons like the nidos. The fact that you can still get donked by NP/SD/random BP sets gives mew that extra dimension as well, which helps keep it in that S rank for me.

Both still S rank in my opinion

oo 3 minutes late :p

Anyways

Heracross should stay in A+ rank. Its Choice band guts set is terrifying af given its typing, as only 3 'mons UU and below can legit avoid the 2hko from any of its physical coverage moves, while a grand total of 0 'mons avoid the 2hko after the Guts boost. This thing basically rips stall teams apart, especially if they lack Fairies.

I actually think Florges might be less viable than Aromatisse, given the changes that have happened to this metagame. However, its typing alone is its biggest saving grace for Florges in UU as it boasts key resistances to Dark and Fighting, two of the most spammable types in this metagame atm. Maybe B- or B rank will do.

Much rush, much sleepiness, good night.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Exactly.

Mew is moving down to A+ rank, while Slowbro is staying in S rank. The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Florges and Heracross.

Thanks for the four-hour discussion period, Limit.

Anyway, Florges should most definitely go down to A or A-. With Blissey in UU and Aromatisse rising in UU, a lot of what Florges once had a monopoly over is pretty much gone. Blissey provides WishPassing, Clerical, and other support options that Florges doesn't have. Aromatisse is more applicable since it glues better with Blissey and is more relevant with the metagame's increase of Physical Fighting types (from the drop ofc). However, Florges is still a very good mixed wall and is a good Fighting and Dark counter/check in one teamslot for balanced teams. He's most definitely ousted from the Stall playstyle, but he still holds a decently strong niche on balance.

Heracross is either A+ or A, more leaning toward A. To be completely honest, the new drops have really knocked off a couple of Heracross' once-bright spots. With the new Scarf creep thanks to Infernape, Heracross' Base 85 Scarf stat is pretty much unthinkably bad to some degree. As a wallbreaker, he is slightly outclassed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in terms of wallbreaking, the new metagame heavily values two things:

• Mixed Wallbreakers
• Banded/Spec'd Wallbreakers with a very good STAB

In the first case, as many of you have seen, dedicated Band wallbreakers are starting to shrink a bit and mixed breakers like Victini, Infernape, and Hydreigon. Before the drops, common Defense cores, such as PinkCore, could be broken by smashing shit with Banded 'mons or Pokemon dedicated to one side of the attack spectrum such as straight-up Banded Victini, Banded Darmanitan, and Nidoking/Nidoqueen. After the Blissey drops, a new PinkCore of Blissey/Slowbro/Aromatisse emerged, and it's the Aromatisse that's supporting my rationale. Aromatisse is different from Florges because it actually has great Physical bulk to stomach hits. Both of Heracross' STABs aren't even 3HKOs after Lefties against Aromatisse, and it's this roadblock that makes it less effective pre-drop, and pretty much every wall-breaker in general. Even Victini's shifted from a dedicated Band to a Mixed LO set for wallbreaking. Unless I've missed something crucial (pretty sure someone with more experience might shit of me for this), my shallow reasoning is well-founded and the reason is justified.

EDIT: Added a comma between the words "period" and "Limit" because of grammatical error.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I think A is as low as Florges should be. I've found Blissey to be massive set-up bait for a number of Sub-users and ground types, while Florges has nice offensive presence for a wall. And it can actually take on certain physical attackers. I don't think the competition it gets from Blissey is as huge as people are saying.

Maybe A-, but definitely not freaking B lol; it's just orders of magnitude better than Goodra.

 

[Pipotchi]

I think Heracross is still good. Aromatisse can't deal with banded heracross after it kills something else, plus its still equally devastating to mispredict the wrong heracross set and get swords danced on, or throwing out status and suddenly getting your team destroyed by a guts variant. However I do think alakazam acts as a very good catcher to revenge kill Heracross reliably every single time, which really throws a damper on it considering anyone else's sash could be broken by stealth rock, and heracross would usually be able to take the weak priority from before. Also, fletchinder (while not new) is picking up slightly in usage and he also acts as a good heracross killer. But still, the bug is strong when it comes to killing walls still- many teams run blissey or slowbro without aromatisse and these are both top walls that heracross has no problem dealing with, as well as umbreon, and as far as that job goes, he hasn't gotten any worse. But what I think makes heracross weaker now is his ability to be more effectively revenged with new sashed pokemon, addition of more priority in uu and faster scarfers (and fast pokemon in general) like hydreigon when once 85 speed was good enough.
I'd say hes A tier

 

[Jacks0n]

View attachment 15846 I think florges should drop to A-. Florges is still great, but I think the set which has the most value is the mixed defence. It can take on the likes of hera and mienshao as well as having great sp.defence. The reason to use it over blissey is that it can be a special wall as well as taking on fighting types. I don't think that merits for any more over A-. Its pure defensive set is done better by aromatisse as well.

View attachment 15847 I think hera should drop to A. People are starting to use Pokemon like aromatisse and gligar a lot more, rendering heracross a little bit less effective. Its scarf set also has another pokemon in scarf Infernape it has to outspeed, which it can't. Its scarf set simply isn't that great, its band set is still unreal, but people are really prepared for it and I think it should drop. Its SD lefties set is the best set for it atm IMO because the fact that it can switch around its moves makes it a lot better, as well as it being able to set up SD's on gligar, one of its checks. But its sd set lacks the immediate raw power and I think A is great for hera atm. Another thing, yes it's good against stall, but offence is everywhere, and with faster pokemon like nape and zam it struggles to do much against offence.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Florges should probably drop to A, but B or B- is honestly silly. It's still a great mixed wall that takes special hits like a champ and can take on a few physical attackers thanks to its nice typing. It's also a nice cleric that passes Wishes and has Aromatherapy and in general is pretty bulky. It's also one of the best answers to Hydreigon in the tier. That said, I do think A or A- would be a better fit for Florges. It's rather one dimensional, and it also has a lot of competition with Blissey as a cleric as the latter has Wishes that are milestones larger than those of the flower. There's also Aromatisse, of course, which gives it competition because it has better physical bulk and larger Wishes to use. If anything, Aromatisse should move up a notch or two but I'll save that discussion for a later time.

Heracross I'm not sure about. I like its wallbreaking sets, since it wallbreaks pretty well with its sheer power and good coverage. It does have some checks though in Gligar and to an extent Aromatisse. And of course, Heracross is now slow, since this meta is really fast paced and it is quite easy to revenge kill. I don't have a strong opinion on it though so I guess either A+ or A would do well for it.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Shy Glizzy]

Heracross is still A+ without a doubt. Defensive teams get plowed through by a +2 Hera. Gligar is KO'd by Knock Off -> Stone Edge -> Stone Edge. If it tries to roost of the damage then Hera Sword Dances in it's face. Toxic gives it a Guts boost and Earthquake does a pittance. Aromatisse is 2HKO'd at +2 as well. Alomomola, Hippodown, Swampert, Mega Ampharos, all 2HKO'd at +2. It isn't hard for Heracross to SD either considering it scares away Scald/Toxic/WoW users which are a constant on defensive teams. Even against offense non choiced Hera puts in work by beating Lucario in a 1v1, +1 Krook, +1 Honchkrow, Absol without play rough, Roserade etc etc

Florges is A. While is got new competition in Blissey and Aromatisse, it still has major merits of both. First off, people are really overstating Aromatisse considering it has 15% more HP and 10% more physical defense at the cost of 60% of the special defense as Florges. Yeah it actually has a usable ability, but it wasn't going to be a heavy target of taunts and encores outside of maybe Alakazam anyway. As an all-around defender, Florges is better than Aromatisse. As far as Blissey is concerned, Florges is generally outclassed. But it's typing gives it a significant niche over Blissey. Florges can beat Fighters such as Heracross and Mienshao 1v1, which Blissey only dreams of doing. It's large bulk coupled with it's great typing secure it in A rank.

 

[Limitless]

I really wanted someone to say something about there being less Florges in the metagame, so there's less of a need for Heracross. However, given that Heracross was already borderline S rank before the drops, I'm just going to keep it in A+ due to it being the main bulky water killer in the metagame.

Heracross is staying in A+ rank, while Florges is moving down to A rank. The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Mienshao and Mega Houndoom.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Houndoom hates every single of these drops (bar lucario). Goodra hard counters it, facing blissey will often result in houndoom dying or getting extremely crippled, scarf nape can switch in anything and kill it, alakazam revenge kills with focus blast. Hydreigon is still there to makes its life hell, aerodactyl is more popular than ever not to mention several other checks such as scarf shao, blastoise, scarf krook and it has a hard time setuping even on stuff it outspeeds such as the nidos (both of which can take an unboosted hit so they arent even forced out). It just isnt A+ in this meta when its so easy to fit counters and checks for it and that stealth rock weakness means it isnt gonna outlive any of them. I think A or A- are more suited for it.

 

[Holiday]

Mega Houndoom should be A rank at least. The sheer power between the STABs it has is incredibly noticeable, and with Flash fire, it can switch in on common WoW'ers with ease and get a boost to its Fire Blast. Playing smart and using predicted switches, Nasty Plot lets it become an absolute nuke. Should it get a Flash Fire and Nasty Plot boost...

+2 252 SpA Flash Fire Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 438-516 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah. That's a lot. But what about Florges?

+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 201-237 (55.8 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

If it gets a Flash Fire boost before this? It does an easy 86%. Yes, Mega Houndoom has trouble with some new drops, scarf krookodile, Hera, and most lucarios, as well as not enjoying hazards, but taking these threats out with another Pokemon (bulky waters take out krookodile and Lucario rather nicely, whereas the under-utilized Toxicroak among others deal with Hera.) and MHoundoom can easily maim a team. It deserves A rank easily, and can be argued for A+ or even S rank. (Okay S may be pushing it :3)

Mienshao is an A+ Pokemon. I'm about to leave, but to put simply, it's fast, incredibly strong, can use mixed sets to take care of threats *coughs* gligar *sneeze* and has two amazing sets including the regenerator pivot, as well as a scarf reckless HJK sweeper.

 

[Jacks0n]

I say drop mega houndoom to A-. Mega houndoom hated the drops. It now is walled by blissey and goodra as well as easily being rrevenge killed by zam and infernape. Its still good, but the new drops and evoloution of the meta means it is not even suited to be A+, let alone A anymore.

I say drop mienshao to A, it now has incredible competition with infernape on its scarf set because it is now outsped and its LO set is good, but doesn't deserve A+.