Frillish [QC: 3/3] [GP: 0/2]

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Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Taken over from Ssin

Overview
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Frillish can serve an offensive role with Water Spout or the role of a defensive Water-type. Many other Pokemon fill these same roles, but Frillish has many qualities that help it stand out from the others. On the offensive side, Frillish is one of the only Pokemon that has access to both Water Spout and Trick, meaning that it can Trick its Choice Scarf onto a bulky Pokemon that it can't break through and cripple it by restricting it to one move. Defensively, Frillish has many stand-out qualities, including being the only Pokemon in LC to have the combination of Water and Ghost-type. It is also one of only two Pokemon in LC to receive Cursed Body as an ability, meaning it can possibly disable its foe's strongest attack. It also is one of the only Ghost-types to have access to a recovery move, which allows it to spinblock numerous time throughout a match. Also, most defensive Pokemon only learn Thunder Wave and Toxic for status moves, but Frillish gets access to the more useful Will-O-Wisp, which allows it to burn foes. On top of all this, it even has a fairly strong Special Attack stat, so it can hit foes hard, even on the defensive set. However, Knock Off runs rampant in LC, which hinders Frillish's ability to check Pokemon, especially Fighting-types.


Choice Scarf
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Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: Water Spout
Move 2: Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump / Surf
Move 3: Ice Beam / Energy Ball / Giga Drain
Move 4: Trick
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Nature: Timid

Moves
========

With a Choice Scarf, Frillish outspeeds the entire unboosted tier and and can use a massively strong Water Spout, which is its highest powered Water-type move, to put a dent in foes. Shadow Ball, in addition to getting STAB, is a good move to use if you want to hit most things neutrally, so it is a safe option. However, it does also provide good coverage by hitting Ghost-types like Gastly and Psychic-types like Slowpoke super-effectively. Surf can be used as a back-up Water-type move over Shadow Ball for if Frillish gets low on health and Water Spout is greatly weakened. It doesn't mind losing Shadow Ball to much because it only hits neutrally what the other moves hit super-effectively. Hydro Pump can also be used as a back-up move with greater power, but it has lower accuracy and will miss occasionally. Ice Beam is a fantastic coverage move that hits the Grass-types that resist Water Spout, like Cottonee and Foongus. Energy Ball hits hard the Water-types that resist Water Spout, like Chinchou and Omanyte. Giga Drain does the same thing, but has healing in return for slightly less power. Power is really important on this set and it doesn't want to be missing KOs, but the healing does mitigate this somewhat. Trick allows Frillish to cripple opposing walls that try to switch in by giving them a Choice Scarf and locking them into a useless move.

Set Details
========

This spread enables Frillish to reach 14 Speed and outspeed the entire unboosted metagame with its Choice Scarf. The rest of the EVs are put into SpA to maximize damage, with the leftovers being tossed into HP. Water Absorb is a useful ability because it allows Frillish to switch into Water-type moves without taking damage, and therefore not weaken Water Spout. Water-type moves actually heal Frillish instead, which increases the power of Water Spout.

Usage Tips
========

Frillish can be used two ways. It can be sent in early on for revenge killing and breaking down the opponent, or it can be saved until the end and clean up the opponent's team after its counters have been weakened or KOd. Either way you decide to play use it, you need to be watch out for entry hazards. If you know your opponent has hazards they can lay on your side of the field, try to use Frillish early on before they are set so that its Water Spout isn't weakened. If you have a way to remove them, preferably quickly, then Frillish can be saved for later in the match instead.

Team Options
========

Even with Energy Ball, Frillish has trouble denting bulky Water-types like Chinchou, so Pokemon that are immune to its Electric-type attacks like Hippopotas are good partners for Frillish since they can switch into Volt Switch. While Frillish is unaffected by Fighting-type attacks, it is severely damaged by Knock Off, which most Fighting-type Pokemon also carry. Pokemon such as Trubbish and Fletchling become good partners for Frillish, since they can handle these Fighting-type threats. Frillish strongly dislikes entry hazards, as they slowly chip away at its health and weaken its strongest attack. It greatly appreciates having these removed so that it can do maximum damage with Water Spout, so Pokemon like Drilbur and Vullaby that can remove hazards are great teammates for Frillish. However, Frillish enjoys having the entry hazards on the opponent's side of the field so it is easier to KO the opponent without having to take a hit back. Ferroseed is an example of a good teammate for Frillish for this reason.

Defensive
########
Name: Defensive
Move 1: Scald
Move 2: Shadow Ball / Hex
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Cursed Body / Water Absorb
Item: Eviolite
EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 76 SpA / 76 SpD
Nature: Bold

Moves
========

Scald is Frillish's main STAB attack and is useful for checking Pokemon such as Mienfoo, while also nailing Fire-types who may be switching into a predicted Will-O-Wisp, with the added bonus of potentially burning the opponent. In addition to Scald, Shadow ball is another STAB move that also provides good coverage, hitting things like Slowpoke hard that resist Scald. Hex can be used over Shadow Ball if your team utilizes status moves often, and even Frillish itself can use Will-O-Wisp and then follow up with Hex for double damage. Recover is an obvious move choice on a defensive set as it gives Frillish the longevity to take multiple hits throughout a match. Will-O-Wisp is a very useful status for Frillish as it supports the team by halving the opponent's Attack while slowly chipping away at their health. It also allows it to beat Pokemon such as Mienfoo who cannot break Frillish even with Knock Off.

Set Details
========

The EVs and nature maximize bulk with even numbers for Eviolite. With Bold as Frillish's nature, Frillish reaches 14 Defense and 16 Special Defense, which is a great 21 Def and 24 SpD after the Eviolite boost. The rest are invested in SpA to increase damage output. Cursed Body is generally the best ability for Frillish. Most Pokemon only have one move that is able to 2HKO Frillish, so if it gets disabled Frillish will have much more staying power and be able to potentially beat the Pokemon it is checking. Water Absorb is an acceptable ability as well, as it gives an immunity to Water as well as healing. This allows Frillish to switch into predicted Water-type attacks and be able to take an extra hit. However, most Pokemon with Water-type moves, like Chinchou, Carvanha, and Shell Smash Tirtouga for example, can hit Frillish extremely hard and it can be difficult to stay in on them.

Usage Tips
========

Frillish is best used as a check for certain Fighting, Fire, and Normal-types, as it can burn them to weaken them or hit them with super-effective moves. It also works alright as a check to other physical attackers as well. However, you must be careful with Fighting-types since they almost always carry Knock Off. As a result, it is usually best to use Frillish as a check to most Pokemon as opposed to a counter, since it has trouble switching in on predicted attacks, but has no trouble forcing Pokemon out.

Team Options
========

Frillish can barely dent Pokemon such as Chinchou on the switch, so any Pokemon immune to Volt Switch like Drilbur would make a good teammate for Frillish. While Frillish can absorb Fighting-type attacks, it cannot effectively take the Knock Off most Fighting-types carry. With this in mind, Pokemon that don't mind taking a Knock Off and losing their item such as Mienfoo, Trubbish, or itemless Fletchling make good teammates for Frillish. Frillish has no way to handle Dark-types, so a teammate like Timburr or another Fighting-type that can handle them is much appreciated. Entry hazard setters like Ferroseed and Trubbish really appreciate Frillish as a teammate because it is one of the best spinblockers in Little Cup.

Other Options
#########

Choice Specs can be used on the Choice Scarf set, but it lacks the Speed to be used effectively and generally should not be used. Dazzling Gleam is a good option for hitting Scraggy and other Dark-types that would otherwise cause a lot of trouble for Frillish. Pain Split can be used to take some HP away from your opponent, but it is way less reliable then Recover since it relies on your opponent having high HP and rarely restores as much HP as Recover would. Psychic is an option for dealing with Skrelp, and particularly Croagunk, since Frillish's Water-type moves will actually heal it due to Dry Skin. However, it won't provide a great deal of usefulness outside of that. Taunt can be used to prevent the opponent's moves that aren't attacking, but Frillish is a bit slow to use it effectively and it generally isn't as good of a choice as Will-O-Wisp or Recover as they are much more useful. Toxic can be used on the defensive set to outstall Pokemon with recovery like Porygon, but Will-O-Wisp will be better most of the time because of the Attack drop. Trick Room can be set up effectively by Frillish if your team needs requires it, but there are generally better Pokemon to do so.

Checks & Counters
#########

**Bulky Normal-types**: Porygon makes a great check to Frillish because it can Trace Water Absorb to be healed by its Water-type moves and is already immune to Shadow Ball. Munchlax can also check Frillish with its great Special bulk and PP stall it.

**Chinchou**: Chinchou is bulky enough to not care too much about Shadow Ball or Energy Ball and can use any Electric-type attack to deal major damage to Frillish.

**Choice Scarf Users**: Choice Scarf user can outspeed Frillish and attack it hard, which greatly weakens its Water Spout. Gastly, Pawniard, and Scraggy are all notable because they can OHKO Frillish with their STAB moves.

**Dark-types**: While Frillish has Scald or Water Spout, it has to outspeed and KO because it will generally not survive a hit from a Dark-type STAB move. Dark-types with Pursuit, like Pawniard and Stunky for example, also give Frillish a great deal of trouble as Pursuit essentially traps it. However, most Dark-types do not enjoy being burned, so that is a plus for Frillish against them.

**Magnemite**: Magnemite has two common sets. It's Choice Scarf set can outspeed Frillish and hit really hard, taking it out before Frillish can take Magnemite out. Its Sturdy plus Berry Juice with Recycle set gives it longevity, enabling it to stall out Water Spout and eventually KO with an Electric-type move.

**Timburr**: Timburr cannot be neutralized bye Will-O-Wisp (it is actually strengthened) due to Guts, and can deal big damage back with Knock Off. If it runs another ability instead of Guts the burn will weaken it, but most run Guts so this is of minimal importance.
 
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Max Carvalho

Que os jogos comecem
Aaron I think you haven't finished this yet, but mention Ice Beam in the Choice Scarf set because it needs something to hit cotton and mursh hard. Slash Water Absorb before Cursed Body in the Scarf set because it can be incredibly useful in a switch to recover hazard damage, and btw this frillish really doesn't want to be hit. Add Dark-types in Checks&Counters section. Add Fighting-types in team options in both sets, they can deal with Pawniard and don't care much about Knock Off specially that Mienfoo with Acrobatics everyone is using lol. Add Hidden Power Fighting in OO and that's it :]
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Aaron I think you haven't finished this yet, but mention Ice Beam in the Choice Scarf set because it needs something to hit cotton and mursh hard. Slash Water Absorb before Cursed Body in the Scarf set because it can be incredibly useful in a switch to recover hazard damage, and btw this frillish really doesn't want to be hit. Add Dark-types in Checks&Counters section. Add Fighting-types in team options in both sets, they can deal with Pawniard and don't care much about Knock Off specially that Mienfoo with Acrobatics everyone is using lol. Add Hidden Power Fighting in OO and that's it :]
Haven't finished yet? I haven't even started lol. Ssin wrote all of this; I just copied it over and pasted it here. But I agree with what you said and I will definitely make sure to do it :)
 
Trick is 100% mandatory on Choice Scarf Frillish. I would make the moves Water Spout / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / Trick. When I tested Frillish, this was the most effective combination of moves. I guess I missed not having Surf, but honestly the goal was to never take damage lol. Keeping that in mind, holy shit there is no mention of defog in the whole analysis. Defog / Rapid Spin need emphasizing pronto, it's the only thing keeping Water Spout alive, especially since the coverage is super important. On Defensive, remove Surf, it's retarded.

That's an incredibly cursory look through, I haven't actually /read/ it yet.
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Trick is 100% mandatory on Choice Scarf Frillish. I would make the moves Water Spout / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / Trick. When I tested Frillish, this was the most effective combination of moves. I guess I missed not having Surf, but honestly the goal was to never take damage lol. Keeping that in mind, holy shit there is no mention of defog in the whole analysis. Defog / Rapid Spin need emphasizing pronto, it's the only thing keeping Water Spout alive, especially since the coverage is super important. On Defensive, remove Surf, it's retarded.

That's an incredibly cursory look through, I haven't actually /read/ it yet.
Yeah, I will get to that. I only edited the first few things of this. Ssin wrote the rest lol. I agree with what you said though, and I will get on it soon :)
 

Aerow

rebel
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Maybe mention Choice Scarf users in C&C for the Choice Scarf set? Misdreavus, Gastly, Pawniard, and Scraggy all outspeed and OHKO Frillish with their STAB moves.
 

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Hey AA,
You mention that you need coverage moves to hit Water-type Pokemon that resist Water Spout, like Chinchou and Tirtouga. Tirtouga's hit neutrally, so I just wouldn't mention it, maybe replace it with something like Slowpoke or Shellder. Also, I would include Porygon under Check and Counters because if Frillish is running the defensive set with Water Absorb, Trace Porygon can easily switch in unthreatened and proceed to T-wave or hit Frillish with a Shadow Ball.
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Hey AA,
You mention that you need coverage moves to hit Water-type Pokemon that resist Water Spout, like Chinchou and Tirtouga. Tirtouga's hit neutrally, so I just wouldn't mention it, maybe replace it with something like Slowpoke or Shellder. Also, I would include Porygon under Check and Counters because if Frillish is running the defensive set with Water Absorb, Trace Porygon can easily switch in unthreatened and proceed to T-wave or hit Frillish with a Shadow Ball.
Okay, will do. Thanks Fizz :)
 

Corporal Levi

ninjadog of the decade
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My first QC check :O

Overview:
Mention its ability to spinblock repeatedly as one of the advantages to being a Ghost-type with Recover.

Set 1:
You don't seem to have implemented Fizz's suggestion to edit out the misinformation on Tirtouga.
I feel as if Frillish's Surf is a bit weak on the Choice Scarf set, so Hydro Pump would be a better option; it does appear as if Surf gets several notable KOs over Scald, so I think the preferred moves for Move 2 should be Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump / Surf.
Giga Drain misses out on certain KOs against Eviolite Chinchou compared to Energy Ball, but the healing factor could be useful, so it could probably be slashed after Energy Ball.
  • If you know your opponent has hazards they can lay on your side of the field, try to use Frillish early on before they are set so that its Water Spout isn't weakened.
This could probably be changed to something along the lines of
  • If you know your opponent has hazards they can lay on your side of the field, try to use Frillish early on before they are set or quickly remove the hazards after they are set so that its Water Spout isn't weakened.
It's important to note that provided you have the proper support, Frillish can still be saved for later in the match even against a team with hazards.

Set 2:
I think Hex could be slashed after Shadow Ball.
You have Cursed Body as the primary ability in the set, but say Water Absorb is the best ability in Set Details. I would personally consider Cursed Body more useful because even though it can be played around, it still helps to take advantage of the fact that a lot of Pokemon only have a single move that can 2HKO Frillish; in addition, Frillish already resists Water-type moves, so opponents are unlikely to use them on Frillish in the first place. Not only that, but common Water-type Pokemon in Chinchou, Carvanha and SS Tirtouga are able to hit Frillish hard. As such, Cursed Body being the primary choice should be reflected in the Set Details.

Other Options:
Mention Taunt, Pain Split and Acid Armor as well, and explain why they're not very good.

Checks and Counters:
Add Bulky normals, such as Porygon, as Fizz mentioned, and Resttalk Munchlax, who can PP stall Frillish.
Add Magnemite somewhere lower on the list, who can use 2HKOs to activate Berry Juice, can PP stall Water Spout with Recycle, and hit Frillish hard with Volt Switch, even if it doesn't appreciate a burn.
Mention that certain Dark-types, such as Pawniard and Stunky can also use Pursuit to trap Frillish.
Emphasize that only Guts Timburr is a good check to defensive Frillish, as Iron Fist Timburr is still a thing.

Looks pretty good n.n
QC 1/3
 
Last edited:

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
My first QC check :O

Overview:
Mention its ability to spinblock repeatedly as one of the advantages to being a Ghost-type with Recover.

Set 1:
You don't seem to have implemented Fizz's suggestion to edit out the misinformation on Tirtouga.
I feel as if Frillish's Surf is a bit weak on the Choice Scarf set, so Hydro Pump would be a better option; it does appear as if Surf gets several notable KOs over Scald, so I think the preferred moves for Move 2 should be Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump / Surf.
Giga Drain misses out on certain KOs against Eviolite Chinchou compared to Energy Ball, but the healing factor could be useful, so it could probably be slashed after Energy Ball.
  • If you know your opponent has hazards they can lay on your side of the field, try to use Frillish early on before they are set so that its Water Spout isn't weakened.
This could probably be changed to something along the lines of
  • If you know your opponent has hazards they can lay on your side of the field, try to use Frillish early on before they are set or quickly remove the hazards after they are set so that its Water Spout isn't weakened.
It's important to note that provided you have the proper support, Frillish can still be saved for later in the match even against a team with hazards.

Set 2:
I think Hex could be slashed after Shadow Ball.
You have Cursed Body as the primary ability in the set, but say Water Absorb is the best ability in Set Details. I would personally consider Cursed Body more useful because even though it can be played around, it still helps to take advantage of the fact that a lot of Pokemon only have a single move that can 2HKO Frillish; in addition, Frillish already resists Water-type moves, so opponents are unlikely to use them on Frillish in the first place. Not only that, but common Water-type Pokemon in Chinchou, Carvanha and SS Tirtouga are able to hit Frillish hard. As such, Cursed Body being the primary choice should be reflected in the Set Details.

Other Options:
Mention Taunt, Pain Split and Acid Armor as well, and explain why they're not very good.

Checks and Counters:
Add Bulky normals, such as Porygon, as Fizz mentioned, and Resttalk Munchlax, who can PP stall Frillish.
Add Magnemite somewhere lower on the list, who can use 2HKOs to activate Berry Juice, can PP stall Water Spout with Recycle, and hit Frillish hard with Volt Switch, even if it doesn't appreciate a burn.
Mention that certain Dark-types, such as Pawniard and Stunky can also use Pursuit to trap Frillish.
Emphasize that only Guts Timburr is a good check to defensive Frillish, as Iron Fist Timburr is still a thing.

Looks pretty good n.n
I know I haven't added what Fizz said yet. Right after I made that post I realized I had to take my cousin to play practice - right then. Oops. Lol. I'll respond to the rest of what you said in a bit. :)
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Set 2:
I think Hex could be slashed after Shadow Ball.
You have Cursed Body as the primary ability in the set, but say Water Absorb is the best ability in Set Details. I would personally consider Cursed Body more useful because even though it can be played around, it still helps to take advantage of the fact that a lot of Pokemon only have a single move that can 2HKO Frillish; in addition, Frillish already resists Water-type moves, so opponents are unlikely to use them on Frillish in the first place. Not only that, but common Water-type Pokemon in Chinchou, Carvanha and SS Tirtouga are able to hit Frillish hard. As such, Cursed Body being the primary choice should be reflected in the Set Details.

Other Options:
Mention Taunt, Pain Split and Acid Armor as well, and explain why they're not very good.

Checks and Counters:
Add Bulky normals, such as Porygon, as Fizz mentioned, and Resttalk Munchlax, who can PP stall Frillish.
Add Magnemite somewhere lower on the list, who can use 2HKOs to activate Berry Juice, can PP stall Water Spout with Recycle, and hit Frillish hard with Volt Switch, even if it doesn't appreciate a burn.
Mention that certain Dark-types, such as Pawniard and Stunky can also use Pursuit to trap Frillish.
Emphasize that only Guts Timburr is a good check to defensive Frillish, as Iron Fist Timburr is still a thing.

Looks pretty good n.n
QC 1/3
Some of this I already had changed before you even checked it... It seems my last set of edits didn't save, which is rather frustrating. I am in the process of editing now haha. Thanks Levi :)
 
Levi covered most things, but i'd just like to suggest adding hazard setters in team options of the second set, as Frillish is probably the most reliable spinblocker we have with Missy gone (avoids the 2hko most of the time from Staryu and Drilbur even after Stealth Rock). Also toxic could go in OO to stall out things like Porygon, with a mention of how Will-O-Wisp is better most of the time.
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Levi covered most things, but i'd just like to suggest adding hazard setters in team options of the second set, as Frillish is probably the most reliable spinblocker we have with Missy gone (avoids the 2hko most of the time from Staryu and Drilbur even after Stealth Rock). Also toxic could go in OO to stall out things like Porygon, with a mention of how Will-O-Wisp is better most of the time.
I will do. Thanks for the feedback zeriloa. :)
 
Levi covered most things, but i'd just like to suggest adding hazard setters in team options of the second set, as Frillish is probably the most reliable spinblocker we have with Missy gone (avoids the 2hko most of the time from Staryu and Drilbur even after Stealth Rock). Also toxic could go in OO to stall out things like Porygon, with a mention of how Will-O-Wisp is better most of the time.
add the stuff i said here (before i was qc lol) and 2/3
 

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Scarf Moves:
- Remove mention of Missy in the Shadow Ball section
- Include an explanation on Giga Drain
- Also, idk what the general opinion is, but I'd recommend listing the moves in order that they appear on set

Defensive Set Details:
- Include the bulk numbers that the EVs let it hit
- Mention why Bold is included

Defensive Usage Tips:
- Mention how Fighting-type carry Knock Off

Other Options:
- Dazzling Gleam for Scraggy and Dark-types
- Psychic for Croagunk
- I feel like Acid Armor is gimmicky and the Defensive set can't really make room for it, so I'd remove that

Checks and Counters:
- Change Timburr's desc from "if it has Guts" to "due to Guts," because let's face it, nobody runs Iron Fist n stuff

QC 3/3
 

Aaron's Aron

A concussion update in my info tab
Just realized I forgot like a week ago to post that this is ready for a final QC check. Lol fail.
 
oops was reading through this before I saw Avs' post but just one small thing, include examples in Team Options. For both sets add a pokemon that's immune to Volt Switch like Hippo or Goldeen. For Scarf add hazard removers and for Defensive add hazard setters. Good job :]
 
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