Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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Valmanway

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Are there any specific situations I would use Mence over Chomp?
It's not so much that Salamence has any better matchups as it is him having a snowball effect over Garchomp. Scarf Garchomp's power is consistent throughout the whole fight, but Salamence gets stronger with each kill. Sacking something when against Garchomp isn't that bad of an idea, but it's a terrible idea when against Salamence. Garchomp is typically better than Salamence since it can get past Fairy- and Steel-types much more efficiently, but Salamence has that snowball effect that be a serious problem if played unwisely against.
 
Fair arguments on Aggron. Lando-T is a good counter for the set I posted, but lots of Aggrons run Ice Punch, and my major point in posting that set was versatility/unpredictability.

Double Dance Lando-T is good but they have slightly different niches. For example your team might otherwise be weak to ice moves, or appreciate an answer to Fairies. To repeat again I'm not saying the polish set is THE Mega Aggron set - I just wanted people to consider that it could fill a niche other than tanking/support. Being able to fill multiple roles has always been a plus for a Pokemon's viability as far as I know.

I still think it's as useful or more useful than some of the mons in B- for my part.
 
I'd like to nominate Zapdos for A- Rank.


flyspam has been replaced by genie HO, but that doesnt mean zapdos cant adapt to it. With a specially defensive set, Zapdos can take on non-boosting landorus and thundurus, as well as the standard aegis set if it doesnt get a drop from sball.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Zapdos: 126-149 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 6.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Zapdos: 153-183 (39.8 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Zapdos: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- 42.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It only switches in comfortably only on landorus, but it wins 1v1 vs the other two (roost as lo recoil kills thundy)

I was running a standard ho team on suspect ladder with deo-d/bisharp/aegis/genies/mega-gyara and this thing literally walled my whole team lol. a +2 Sucker punch from Bisharp can kill Zapdos with this spread, but with quag on stall and keldeo on balance it shouldnt be that hard to deal with. Bisharp is also usually afraid to come in on zapdos even when defog is obvious because heatwave can kill. Zapdos also has greater versatility than more people give it credit for. I've seen subroost sets that pp stall effectively, surprise hp ices, and toxic stall sets. Agility is pretty bad tbh but its there if you want to use it, i guess if scolipede ever gets owned by a complex ban it could have a use on bp chains.

its similar to gliscor and mandi as part of the few pokemon to deal with lando and aegis effectively yet deals with thundurus better than both, and can give balance teams trouble with a substitute stalling set (one for pp stall, other for toxic). Its just very hard to break without a stab se attack, can can roost stall things out of their pp and lo recoil very easily.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-13344

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-ou-672327 based god zapdos
 

Srn

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Zapdos is really underwhelming imho. I have 2 main reasons i hate it:

1. Its incredibly subpar defogging abilities.
If we're running the standard set of tbolt/heat wave/roost/defog, then any given stealth rocker can beat it outside of skarm, ferro, and.......pinsir
Literally every other common user of stealth rock beats zapdos 1 on 1.
Only hippo comes close to losing, and even then, it can just toxic.

2. Its reliance on typing.
Zapdos is just about as bulky as keldeo, and that's really disappointing in my eyes. It relies on its typing way too much to actually take anything on, it lacks the raw bulk to stomach powerful neutral hits. Combined with a rock weakness, its no wonder that even mega pinsir can break through this thing at +2.

It's just underwhelming whenever i use it :/
 
I am often happy with whenever my Zapdos performs just due to I use the ok Toxic Roost set with Tbolt and Heat Wave as more often than not, you can capitalize the expected switch in by making it at least much more manageable foe the rest of the team.

True I guess it doesn't count for much since if you see Zap, it will be defogging but it is capable of running other things. I still believe it being able to handle Lando-I to a degree is acceptable as most expect physical defense Zap and not sp def.

again, I'm just speaking from my experience with it. I myself am just against Defog Zap as I usually dislike the idea of having a hazard weak user go to get rid of said hazards but that's my preference.
 
I'd like to nominate Zapdos for A- Rank.


flyspam has been replaced by genie HO, but that doesnt mean zapdos cant adapt to it. With a specially defensive set, Zapdos can take on non-boosting landorus and thundurus, as well as the standard aegis set if it doesnt get a drop from sball.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Zapdos: 126-149 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 6.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Zapdos: 153-183 (39.8 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Zapdos: 132-156 (34.3 - 40.6%) -- 42.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It only switches in comfortably only on landorus, but it wins 1v1 vs the other two (roost as lo recoil kills thundy)

I was running a standard ho team on suspect ladder with deo-d/bisharp/aegis/genies/mega-gyara and this thing literally walled my whole team lol. a +2 Sucker punch from Bisharp can kill Zapdos with this spread, but with quag on stall and keldeo on balance it shouldnt be that hard to deal with. Bisharp is also usually afraid to come in on zapdos even when defog is obvious because heatwave can kill. Zapdos also has greater versatility than more people give it credit for. I've seen subroost sets that pp stall effectively, surprise hp ices, and toxic stall sets. Agility is pretty bad tbh but its there if you want to use it, i guess if scolipede ever gets owned by a complex ban it could have a use on bp chains.

its similar to gliscor and mandi as part of the few pokemon to deal with lando and aegis effectively yet deals with thundurus better than both, and can give balance teams trouble with a substitute stalling set (one for pp stall, other for toxic). Its just very hard to break without a stab se attack, can can roost stall things out of their pp and lo recoil very easily.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-13344

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/frost-ou-672327 based god zapdos
Zapdos isn't really a great check to genie HO at all. Sure, you posted calcs of it getting 3HKOed without SR, that's kind of poor considering you have to sack a mon to bring it in and it will be pressured during a match to remove rocks, which all Deo-D HO teams use, lowering its survivability. Don't talk about how teammates can deal with the stuff it can't beat, that's pretty obvious and doesn't help your argument by saying it needs support. I wouldn't call a fairly gimmicky set and a Hidden Power versatility. Point is it has pretty bad bulk for something that should be tanking hits and even when Flyspam existed it was able to be circumnavigated without the use of specific support, its only big selling point is that it's a decent mon with access to Defog, B+ is fine.
 
Fairies aren't really a problem for it. Every fairy besides Azumarril is 2HKOd by Hydro Pump. 91/90/90 Defenses are really solid for a sweeper. Only STAB SE moves will be OHKOing it. It's not as good as Aegislash or Char-X but I think it's as good a Landurous, and maby Thundurus
As my most favorite Pokemon that is in OU, I don't see what makes Keldeo stand out as one of the suspect worthy threats of OU. I have to say a few things hold Keldeo back. One, the only priority attack he has comes off a base 72 attack. Two, the ability is quite useless. Three, no permanent Drizzle. Four, he is easy to check with any Pokemon that either outspeed him and hit with SE STABs or has typing to resist Keldeo's STABs, that includes former OU stars like Tentacruel and Jolteon (Manetric isn't fast enough). Keldeo checks Landorus, Thundurus checks Keldeo, but not counter. With the existence of Azumarill and Greninja, Keldeo is no more than an A ranked Pokemon to me.
 
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Keldeo rank is fine , without permanent weather and new defensive tools for stall , he doesn't have the power to wreck shit, he once had ( he should never had been allowed to say on 5th gen OU)
He still packs a punch but its much easier to deal with now
Question why Florges is banned from the viability ranking?
 
Sylveons better HP is also part of its "bulk".

There is literally no reason to use Florges when Sylveon passes more HP, has pretty much the same bulk and hits harder than Florges. They do exactly the same things but Sylveon does everything better + Hits through Subs.

Additionally it created stupidity in this thread like Arcanine in the early days so it had to be blacklisted.
 
Because Sylveon.
AAANNNNNDDDDD specifically because Florges was another case where people would not stop asking for it to be ranked and used terrible arguments. That's the important part.

Like if people would not shut up about Liepard, all "hurf it has Encore+U-Turn, it has prankster Rain Dance hurf" it could get blacklisted, but it's not, even though it's not good enough to be rankled.

It's a shame Gamefreak made two basically identical pokemon but made one of them better in every basically aspect, cause I like Florges ;_; It's not even better in doubles, which you think it could be cause of its abilities, but it's not.
 
Nominating Keldeo for S-Rank. Keldeo is a fast ass Pokemon, outspeeding an extremely large chunk of the metagame (and also all but one currrent S-Rank pokemon), and with Hydro Pump and Secret Sword it has almost perfect coverage. In conjunction with Choice Specs, which have been almost like the default Keldeo item this gen, it can 2HKO every common pokemon in the metagame other than a select few (pink blobs and lati's). Faster threats will take an icy-wind to the face, usually allowing Keldeo to outspeed them. It has better than decent bulk as well, allowing it to live eq from a +1 M-Gyarados, and a Sucker Punch from a +2 Bisharp, 2 of the most common and dangerous set up sweepers this gen.
 
Nominating Keldeo for S-Rank. Keldeo is a fast ass Pokemon, outspeeding an extremely large chunk of the metagame (and also all but one currrent S-Rank pokemon), and with Hydro Pump and Secret Sword it has almost perfect coverage. In conjunction with Choice Specs, which have been almost like the default Keldeo item this gen, it can 2HKO every common pokemon in the metagame other than a select few (pink blobs and lati's). Faster threats will take an icy-wind to the face, usually allowing Keldeo to outspeed them. It has better than decent bulk as well, allowing it to live eq from a +1 M-Gyarados, and a Sucker Punch from a +2 Bisharp, 2 of the most common and dangerous set up sweepers this gen.
Someone just nominated it for S last page and it really doesn't deserve it compared to other mons. It is walled by a large portion of effective offensive and defensive mon, like Azumarill, Gyarados (Pre mega), Mega-Venu, Amoongus , Dragonite (Specifically CBBNite) and more. The fact that it relies on choice items means that it is heavily prediction reliant and able to be checked by any semi bulky mon that resists the move it's locked into, not to mention a barren movepool that the only usable coverage to be found is Hidden Power. The once praised 108 speed tier is not as good as it was last gen with mons like Thund-I, Talonflame, Greninja, the Lati's, Mega Mane and loads of priority running around. Its still a pretty good mon but I feel it's a bit overrated and honestly a really low A+. I could even see it moving down to A in the future in all honesty.
 
I brought this up a few pages ago, but it kinda got buried in discussion somIm just going to wuote myself and see what everyone thinks.

I think its about time Garchomp goes to A. It's simply not as effective as other A+ moms and to a lesser extent some A mons. Azumarill, Bisharp, Keldeo, Mega Mawile, Talonflame, Mega Venusaur, etc. are guys that pretty much every time needs an answer to and are very threatening to plenty of teams, many of these guys define the metagame. To me, Garchomp just isnt one of those pokemon. Base 102 speed really isnt that amazing anymore and while many of its sets are good, none are great. The lead set is alright, but faces competition or is inferior to leads sets of Deoxys-S, Deoxys-D, Terrakion, Mamoswine, Landorus-T and to a lesser extent Tyranitar. Many of these pokemon have something else going for it besides stealth rock and sheer offensive presence. The first 3 can run taunt, Mamoswine has an arguably better offensive typing and is immune to taunt, Landorus-T has Intimidate and U-turn, and Tyranitar is similar to Garchomp but bulkier and can support the team better. Garchomps choice scarf set is a decent revenge killer, but lacks power and all of its moves are terrible to be locked into besides Dragon Claw which is still weak without an item. There are so many things that can take advantage of Garchomp locked into any of its moves that its not even funny. In my opinion, I'd rather have a scarfed Landorus-T since it has access to intimidate and u-turn or a scarfed keldeo, which can spam scald all day long. Finally, Garchomps, Life Orb + Swords Dance set is probably its best set, but still isnt worthy of A+. Pretty much anything faster than base 102 speed can check it and despite Garchomps good bulk, without investment and with Life Orb recoil priority can take it down fast. This set is also sort of outclassed by the Lati@s, who have access to defog, can check/counter keldeo, have better speed, and still have great coverage and power. Dragonite also has an easier time boosting thanks to multiscale and has dragon dance and extreme speed. Dont get me wrong, Garchomp is still a good pokemon by all means, but it doesnt belong in A+ anymore. Its closer to the likes of Landorus-T, Lati@s, Heatran, and Dragonite than Talonflame, Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Mawile, and the rest of the A+ pokemon.
 

Jaiho

bandy legged troll
Someone just nominated it for S last page and it really doesn't deserve it compared to other mons. It is walled by a large portion of effective offensive and defensive mon, like Azumarill, Gyarados (Pre mega), Mega-Venu, Amoongus , Dragonite (Specifically CBBNite) and more. The fact that it relies on choice items means that it is heavily prediction reliant and able to be checked by any semi bulky mon that resists the move it's locked into, not to mention a barren movepool that the only usable coverage to be found is Hidden Power. The once praised 108 speed tier is not as good as it was last gen with mons like Thund-I, Talonflame, Greninja, the Lati's, Mega Mane and loads of priority running around. Its still a pretty good mon but I feel it's a bit overrated and honestly a really low A+. I could even see it moving down to A in the future in all honesty.
While I don't agree with Keldeo being S-rank, there is no way it is dropping to A. It is easily one of the top A+ 'mons in the meta. For example, you SAY more 'mons wall Keldeo, but really, there are no other common. Also, 5 'mons is nowhere near a large portion. Also, none of the pokemon you listed enjoy switching in on a Scald burn, since it shuts 3 of them down and cripples M-Venu. Only Amoonguss can afford to be burned in a match. On top of that, each one of the counters you listed can be hit with a coverage move. The two grass types don't like HP Flying (especially Amoonguss which is forced to invest heavily in Physical Defense for Azumarill), CBBNite doesn't like Icy Wind, and the two water types don't like HP Electric, which has been rising in popularity. I would also love to see any of these handle SubEndeavor Keldeo. Yes it is prediction reliant, but that is a two way street, and one can use Keldeo to play mind games as well. Also, as far as I can tell, the only 'mon that can take less than 40% from any one of Keldeo's moves is AV Azumarill... Keldeo also doesn't need any more coverage than what it has got, so saying it has a shitty movepool doesn't mean anything. 108 is a fine speed tier, beating every wall in the meta, which it is all it needs to beat since its, ya know, a WALLbreaker. It also outspeeds a huge portion of offensive 'mons in the meta, including the Zards, Landorus, Garchomp, non-Sand Rush Exca, Bisharp, Kyu-B, and M-Garde. As for priority, only Gale Wings Brave Bird and Aerilate Quick Attack are doing a lot of damage, while being able to easily handle Shadow Sneaks, Aqua Jets, Mach Punches, and Ice Shards. So while Keldeo may not deserve S-Rank, it CERTAINLY doesn't deserve anything below A+.
 
Nah, Garchomp can stay A+. It can stop all the pokes in S-rank (bar the Deos who will likely go to Uberz). It has a trolly base 102 speed allowing it to outspeed Landorus and one shot it with CB Outrage, while Aegislash gets OHKOed by EQ and Zard-X is revenge killed by the scarf set even at +1. Thundurus dies to Stone Edge and is outsped by the choice scarf set. In addition to this, Chomp has massive bulk (higher than Swampert's), so it's not vulnerable to any priority bar Ice Shard and can take some unstabbed Ice Beams. I think Chomp is more of a threat in this meta than Dragonite or Mega Zard Y. Keep Chomp A+

____________________________________________________

Now, I think toxicroak and especially hawlucha should drop to D. There are very few pokemon these guys can set up on, especially in Hawlucha's case. Despite it's incredible speed after Unburden, it's still WAY too weak to priority attacks, especially Brave Bird, Ice Shard and Bullet Punch. Aegislash lols at it all day long, can even make it take 50% from High Jump Kick, which usually results in Hawlucha's demise. Hawlucha is also outclassed by many harder-hitting Flying-types, such as Staraptor, Tornadus-T and especially Talonflame.
Toxicroak also has problems setting up, although admittedly, it can stop Aegislash and Thundurus with prediction, it lols at Keldeo and can be an incredible headache to stall. It's just that he has horrible 4 moveslot syndrome, it's too slow to sweep and way too many faster things resist its Sucker Punch, and most Water-types bar Keldeo can get past it anyway with their coverage. Toxicroak is also somewhat outclassed by Bisharp, who has Defiant and gets STAB on SP.

______________________________________________________

And why is Empoleon still ranked?
 
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Id like to nominate Rotom-H for B- rank. He checks a TON of the top threats in the tier such as Charizard-y, Aegislash, Thundurus, Pinsir, Skarmory, Mamoswine, Scizor Talonflame, and the mighty Mega Mawile. He does have flaws like a Stealth Rocks weakness but despite this is still a fantastic pivot and status spreader as Pain Split somewhat covers this weakness. He can also function as a scout with Volt Switch and hits pretty hard with overheat. I think we can all agree that Arcanine is pretty bad outside of countering Mega Mawile and if he made C rank I believe Rotom-H deserves B rank because Rotom-H can do what Arcanine does and more and is a great pokemon even outside of countering Mawile.
 
Id like to nominate Rotom-H for B- rank. He checks a TON of the top threats in the tier such as Charizard-y, Aegislash, Thundurus, Pinsir, Skarmory, Mamoswine, Scizor Talonflame, and the mighty Mega Mawile. He does have flaws like a Stealth Rocks weakness but despite this is still a fantastic pivot and status spreader as Pain Split somewhat covers this weakness. He can also function as a scout with Volt Switch and hits pretty hard with overheat. I think we can all agree that Arcanine is pretty bad outside of countering Mega Mawile and if he made C rank I believe Rotom-H deserves B rank because Rotom-H can do what Arcanine does and more and is a great pokemon even outside of countering Mawile.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 212-250 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

do you even know what a counter is
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 212-250 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

do you even know what a counter is
It can still make Mega Mawile useless by burning it, so it technically is a counter.
Rotom-W is still better at it, though.
 
It can still make Mega Mawile useless by burning it, so it technically is a counter.
Rotom-W is still better at it, though.
Eh, just cause it doesn't have to worry bout a OHKO I guess by switching into SR (I have a bias for Ro-H so its a little hard to hide).

The calc is a little unrealistic tho. Rotom-H runs Sp Def spreads in order to take Water Attacks better as its W-o-W covers its Rock weakness in spades (except for the rare Power Gem Mega Amph).
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Eh, just cause it doesn't have to worry bout a OHKO I guess by switching into SR (I have a bias for Ro-H so its a little hard to hide).

The calc is a little unrealistic tho. Rotom-H runs Sp Def spreads in order to take Water Attacks better as its W-o-W covers its Rock weakness in spades (except for the rare Power Gem Mega Amph).
Rotom-W will always survive an attack from Mega Mawile after rocks, so it's a hard counter. It loses most of its health in the process (or possibly dies even after burning it, too lazy to calc cause I need to sleep), but it does the job.
 
Rotom-W will always survive an attack from Mega Mawile after rocks, so it's a hard counter. It loses most of its health in the process (or possibly dies even after burning it, too lazy to calc cause I need to sleep), but it does the job.
Oh I never said it didn't. Was just comparing it to Sub Punch Ro-H there in the difference as ya stated.

Also, when can we expect the next update to the thread? We have been discussing and re-discussing that suggested slate for a little over a week now and was wondering how the verdicts are going.
 
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 212-250 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

do you even know what a counter is
He checks a TON of the top threats in the tier such as Charizard-y, Aegislash, Thundurus, Pinsir, Skarmory, Mamoswine, Scizor Talonflame, and the mighty Mega Mawile.
do you even know what reading is
 
While I don't agree with Keldeo being S-rank, there is no way it is dropping to A. It is easily one of the top A+ 'mons in the meta. For example, you SAY more 'mons wall Keldeo, but really, there are no other common. Also, 5 'mons is nowhere near a large portion. Also, none of the pokemon you listed enjoy switching in on a Scald burn, since it shuts 3 of them down and cripples M-Venu. Only Amoonguss can afford to be burned in a match. On top of that, each one of the counters you listed can be hit with a coverage move. The two grass types don't like HP Flying (especially Amoonguss which is forced to invest heavily in Physical Defense for Azumarill), CBBNite doesn't like Icy Wind, and the two water types don't like HP Electric, which has been rising in popularity. I would also love to see any of these handle SubEndeavor Keldeo. Yes it is prediction reliant, but that is a two way street, and one can use Keldeo to play mind games as well. Also, as far as I can tell, the only 'mon that can take less than 40% from any one of Keldeo's moves is AV Azumarill... Keldeo also doesn't need any more coverage than what it has got, so saying it has a shitty movepool doesn't mean anything. 108 is a fine speed tier, beating every wall in the meta, which it is all it needs to beat since its, ya know, a WALLbreaker. It also outspeeds a huge portion of offensive 'mons in the meta, including the Zards, Landorus, Garchomp, non-Sand Rush Exca, Bisharp, Kyu-B, and M-Garde. As for priority, only Gale Wings Brave Bird and Aerilate Quick Attack are doing a lot of damage, while being able to easily handle Shadow Sneaks, Aqua Jets, Mach Punches, and Ice Shards. So while Keldeo may not deserve S-Rank, it CERTAINLY doesn't deserve anything below A+.
No there are more than those 5 mons (M-Venusaur, Amoonguss, Gyarados, Dragonite, Azumarill) can take hits from Keldeo. Also the lati twins, Sylveon/Clefable/Togekiss, Slowbro, Starmie, Chesnaught, and Vest Tornadus-T and Tangrowth are a few more off the top of my head (notice all of these also OHKO Keldeo back, so no tanking your way through). No, not all of them can avoid 2HKOs in every circumstance but that's where being so specs-reliant sucks. Even if Keldeo manages to nail Venusaur with HP flying, it's not crippled, it can still come in later against something slower and nab a Synthesis. And then the Venusaur user has a super easy time switching to just about anything else out there now that Keldeo is locked into hidden power. It sucks that Keldeo mainly gets 2HKOs rather than OHKOs because opponents can save their half health pokemon and switch in something that resists whatever move it's using.

In particular every regenerator mon in the meta is such a good switch in to specs/scarf Keldeo, because all they need to do is scout the move it's using and switch to a resist, barely taking any damage after they switch out, with their passive recovery they get around Keldeo's way of punishing it with Scald. Well, that and they all have nice typing to take its moves and hit back hard. None of them are too crippled by sub+endeavor either unless it's paired with a pursuit user, because 2-3 switch outs and they're healthy again. Starmie, Lati@s, and Sylveon all can take on sub+endeavor no problem as well.

There also isn't any offensive mon as high ranked as Keldeo with as barren of a movepool. Every Keldeo has a water STAB (or even two, lol) and Secret Sword, and then it's hidden power, icy wind, calm mind, sub, endeavor, and it runs out there. Those pokemon I listed earlier show how water+fighting isn't amazing coverage. It's decent, but it still leaves a lot of holes, since they don't cover each other's resists.

Hidden power and Icy Wind are such low base power that it's so risky to mispredict, since there's maybe one pokemon on a team you're trying to hit with it. Something like Scarf chomp doesn't have as much of that problem, it can, for example, click stone edge against that charizard x to screw the opponent whether they stay in or go to the predicted togekiss switch. But Hidden power and icy wind are so niche in what they hit, there's no breathing room like that, 90% of the meta will exploit it to set up. Calm Mind is good, and life orb+calm mind imo is way better than specs, since you don't have prediction issues which is, if you can't tell, the thing that I think makes Keldeo a poor wall breaker. But even Life Orb sets take away from Keldeo's ability to counter a few threats like Bisharp and Tyranitar

Also, 108 speed looks a lot slower when nearly everything faster carries a super effective stab, ex. Lati@s, Thundurus, Greninja (extrasensory/HP grass/Grass Knot), Tornadus-T, Talonflame, Mega Manectric, Deoxys-S, Alakazam, Raikou. It's pretty easy to check Keldeo when darn near every pokemon that happens to be able to take a hit from it or outspeed also has a super effective STAB, and that makes its decent bulk only useful for switching into the stuff Keldeo checks, rather than tanking its way through its own checks.
 
No there are more than those 5 mons (M-Venusaur, Amoonguss, Gyarados, Dragonite, Azumarill) can take hits from Keldeo. Also the lati twins, Sylveon/Clefable/Togekiss, Slowbro, Starmie, Chesnaught, and Vest Tornadus-T and Tangrowth are a few more off the top of my head
And just how many of these are switching into Keldeo in Rain?
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon in Rain: 241-285 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That was an example of one the bulkiest walls in the metagame - being 2HKOed in Rain with full investment.
 
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