-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Mediocre-Mons (VENOMOTH BANNED!)
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
So the set of Rotom I run is:
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
Here's how I came to the conclusion:
1. Come in on another Volt Switch or U-Turn to get Rotom vs Veno.
2. Since I'm faster w/ Scarf, I trick away the scarf to stop Veno from setting up.
3. If Sleep Powder, then I go into a setup sweeper as I get a free turn OR go into my weather setter.
Sorry for the confusion about that. Also, Fletchinder laughs at Venomoth.
Also, is there a place where we can post our teams? I would like to see what everyone else is up to and maybe we could all collab and stuff :D
This ^^^
Ok let me just say that I am in favor of banning venomoth not quiver pass. Now on to why we should zap this bug. Literally nothing can switch into this thing unless a Pokemon is already asleep which I find a major problem. Tinted lens bug buzz really hurts even when at +1 and the only true counter to moth is fletchinder who is by no means bad but having it be the only solid counter to moth is a giant problem.
0 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 44.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 84-100 (24.4 - 29%) -- 98.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Sableye: 97-115 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
So unaware checks it and Sableye doesn't really like to sleep. Also we haven't even reached quiver pass I mean this things makes nidoqueen nearly unstoppable! Along with every special sweeper but imho quiver pass itself shouldn't be banned because it's not like masquerain is going to break the meta anytime soon.
And yes I did just do a calc vs clefairy
0 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 44.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Clefairy: 84-100 (24.4 - 29%) -- 98.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Sableye: 97-115 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers
So unaware checks it and Sableye doesn't really like to sleep. Also we haven't even reached quiver pass I mean this things makes nidoqueen nearly unstoppable! Along with every special sweeper but imho quiver pass itself shouldn't be banned because it's not like masquerain is going to break the meta anytime soon.
And yes I did just do a calc vs clefairy
I would like this as well. I'm very interested in seeing what people think about different playstyles in this admittedly very diverse metagame.
SmashPass >>>>>>>>>> QuiverPass
It's just that the user of QuiverPass has a too good user and TBH Masquerain is slow and you can easily prevent it from doing its job while Smeargle is versatile, but still has big flaws that prevent it from passing as consistently.
Last edited:
Dude, nice!
So I have this stall team I've been testing out and I think it's really good in the current metagame:
The core is based around the aforementioned Parasect/Quagsire/Klefki core that really covers each other's backs well as far as synergy goes. The only real notable change to the core is that I made the Klefki an offensive SubCM set instead of your standard utility Klefki. This Klefki is EV'd to make sure that standard Seed's Gyro Ball will never break it, and that's pretty much it lol. While I don't have a move to break through ferroseed immediately, i beat it 1v1 with ease and eventually 2HKO with +6 Flash Cannon. It's a great win condition against opposing stall and the like.
The rest of the team is based around the core's lingering weaknesses and overall needs. I decided I needed one purely offensive mon on my team, so I decided on NP Misdreavus. Missy, even without investment, destroys Nidoqueen and takes very little from any of the moves it commonly carries (watch out for Shadow Ball though. I'll get to that later.) The EVs are pretty weird to start, but they allow me to not be 2HKOd by unboosted Acro from Fletchinder 185 of the time, which is cool because it can be really annoying if Golbat goes down.
Lickitung is my team's general bulky thing and backup Nidoqueen counter (esp. if it carries Shadow Ball). It's extremely bulky on both sides with max HP, and it's large Wishes are appreciated by Klefki and Misdreavus, the only two mons on the team unable of recovering by themselves. It only takes ~34% from Modest Sludge Wave from Queen, so it can pretty much always beat it, and the rest of my team can switch in on anything but it's STABs for the most part. Tung also walls Xatu and can put a stop to sableye, even though it can't really do damage to it, but I have Klefki to end up killing it later. Dragon Tail is an option to get rid of certain sweepers as well as an option to get rid of Sableye. Oblivious is nice as well because I can Heal Bell / Wish / whatever in the face of the likes of Murkrow and Sableye.
The final member is Golbat, a kind of defensive glue. It has a slew of good resistances that allow it to act as a general switch in to many different mons when my other Pokemon are weakened. It's also my resident Venomoth counter and hazard remover, which is great because my team hates spikes and stealth rocks alike. I am considering Whirlwind over Haze so I can remove the boosts from Venomoth after it passes them out, but since it's probably gonna be banned im okay with haze for now.
So, questions and comments are welcomed since this team is far from perfect, but I would like to see how fellow players have enjoyed stall in the current metagame. :]
So I have this stall team I've been testing out and I think it's really good in the current metagame:
Parasect (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
Klefki @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flash Cannon
Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Body Slam / Dragon Tail
Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
- Brave Bird
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Seed Bomb
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Recover
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
Klefki @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Dazzling Gleam
- Flash Cannon
Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Body Slam / Dragon Tail
Golbat @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Haze
- Brave Bird
The core is based around the aforementioned Parasect/Quagsire/Klefki core that really covers each other's backs well as far as synergy goes. The only real notable change to the core is that I made the Klefki an offensive SubCM set instead of your standard utility Klefki. This Klefki is EV'd to make sure that standard Seed's Gyro Ball will never break it, and that's pretty much it lol. While I don't have a move to break through ferroseed immediately, i beat it 1v1 with ease and eventually 2HKO with +6 Flash Cannon. It's a great win condition against opposing stall and the like.
The rest of the team is based around the core's lingering weaknesses and overall needs. I decided I needed one purely offensive mon on my team, so I decided on NP Misdreavus. Missy, even without investment, destroys Nidoqueen and takes very little from any of the moves it commonly carries (watch out for Shadow Ball though. I'll get to that later.) The EVs are pretty weird to start, but they allow me to not be 2HKOd by unboosted Acro from Fletchinder 185 of the time, which is cool because it can be really annoying if Golbat goes down.
Lickitung is my team's general bulky thing and backup Nidoqueen counter (esp. if it carries Shadow Ball). It's extremely bulky on both sides with max HP, and it's large Wishes are appreciated by Klefki and Misdreavus, the only two mons on the team unable of recovering by themselves. It only takes ~34% from Modest Sludge Wave from Queen, so it can pretty much always beat it, and the rest of my team can switch in on anything but it's STABs for the most part. Tung also walls Xatu and can put a stop to sableye, even though it can't really do damage to it, but I have Klefki to end up killing it later. Dragon Tail is an option to get rid of certain sweepers as well as an option to get rid of Sableye. Oblivious is nice as well because I can Heal Bell / Wish / whatever in the face of the likes of Murkrow and Sableye.
The final member is Golbat, a kind of defensive glue. It has a slew of good resistances that allow it to act as a general switch in to many different mons when my other Pokemon are weakened. It's also my resident Venomoth counter and hazard remover, which is great because my team hates spikes and stealth rocks alike. I am considering Whirlwind over Haze so I can remove the boosts from Venomoth after it passes them out, but since it's probably gonna be banned im okay with haze for now.
So, questions and comments are welcomed since this team is far from perfect, but I would like to see how fellow players have enjoyed stall in the current metagame. :]
Thanks Eevee. Imma tweak my team a bit more then dump it in this thread. :D
NANANANANAA (Golbat) @ Eviolite
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Haze
- Defog
GATR TIME (Croconaw) @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
Black President (Abomasnow) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
SuperCuts (Mawile) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Pain Split
- Iron Head
Rihanna (Quilava) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Casper (Rotom) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Haze
- Defog
GATR TIME (Croconaw) @ Eviolite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance
Black President (Abomasnow) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
SuperCuts (Mawile) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Pain Split
- Iron Head
Rihanna (Quilava) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Casper (Rotom) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Trick
This is a Balance team that I've had a great amount of success with on the ladder Pre-Kingdra Ban. The premise of the team is to wear down the opposing team with attacks ultimately leading up to a late game sweep with my 2 favourite Johto starters Croconaw and Quilava. Abomasnow is the glue physical attacker that handles pretty much all of the major defensive threats in the tier. It can usually get a sub up for free off of a wall such as Quagsire (careful not to get toxiced!) and once it does, something on the opposing team usually dies. Rotom is used to pack a big punch with the added bonus of crippling a wall with trick. The defensive core is made up of SpDef Golbat which works as a great moth counter and Mawile who can be a real annoyance woth the combo of Knock Off and Pain Split.
A Replay of my team in action:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mediocremons-138666513
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
quiver pass shouldnt be banned to me, quiver pass on venomoth should and is broken. i cant really tell you if venomoth without baton pass is broken or not i just know that baton pass is.
Ban Quiver Pass Venomoth so we can have single visibility on whether moh is broken rather than seeing whether venomoth and nidoqueen with quiver dance boosts is.
Ban Quiver Pass Venomoth so we can have single visibility on whether moh is broken rather than seeing whether venomoth and nidoqueen with quiver dance boosts is.
I really feel that this is unnecessary, offensive venomoth is also a thing and may I add that it is insanely good. Also this is very excessive as we all know that venomoth is the only user of quiverpass that is good (smeargle is ok but god is the belly drum set fun and the lead set has been very kind to me) and if this is the best user of quiver pass when none other are broken that is basically your point. Should we go through with your ban there will be massive confusion as that comes with all complex bans which a lot of people are against. Hmm maybe we should ban sniper and swift swim on kingdra to make it not broken! That is basically what you are proposing but for venomoth.
Ok so here goes nothing this is mah team :D
So this is a Sun Offense team that is still in it's early stages. I still haven't gotten to over 1150 on alts yet (which I blame to me not knowing the month's meta that much and the team still being in early builds lol). But yeah here goes nothin.
So the basic premise of the team is to shut down any setup sweepers and cripple physical attackers w/ Scarf Rotom. Once I accomplish that, I clear hazards w/ Staryu and then use Wallbreaker Charmeleon to wear down threats such as Quag and nuke things with Fire Blast. After that is done, I attempt to clean up the match w/ Fletchlinder's Acrobatics and Weepinbell's amazing coverage and power. Imo Weepinbell is one of the best mons in the tier w/ Sun Support, as it basically 2hko's everything not named Golbat.
Tell me what you think, I need the help lol :D
So this is a Sun Offense team that is still in it's early stages. I still haven't gotten to over 1150 on alts yet (which I blame to me not knowing the month's meta that much and the team still being in early builds lol). But yeah here goes nothin.
Vulpix @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Hypnosis
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
Weepinbell @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Charmeleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dragon Pulse
- Flame Charge
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Hypnosis
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Acrobatics
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
Weepinbell @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Charmeleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dragon Pulse
- Flame Charge
Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
Staryu @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam
So the basic premise of the team is to shut down any setup sweepers and cripple physical attackers w/ Scarf Rotom. Once I accomplish that, I clear hazards w/ Staryu and then use Wallbreaker Charmeleon to wear down threats such as Quag and nuke things with Fire Blast. After that is done, I attempt to clean up the match w/ Fletchlinder's Acrobatics and Weepinbell's amazing coverage and power. Imo Weepinbell is one of the best mons in the tier w/ Sun Support, as it basically 2hko's everything not named Golbat.
Tell me what you think, I need the help lol :D
I'd try Specs Charmeleon for instant power (+it 2HKO's Quag with whatever), you already got 2 sweepers/cleaners in Fletchinder and Weepinbell. Meanwhile I'd add a Sunny Day'er (or two). Sun teams can usually get up sun once or twice a game, which if often not enough. Something like Klefki with Sunny Day and Spikes as your team has no hazards either.
Sorry for not giving a huge analysis, but it's pretty late and I'm bad at those stuff! Props for using such an underrated style though.
The fletchinder set needs a really big revamp:
Fletchinder@no item
Adamant Nature
Evs: idk look it up it's not a cookie cutter spread
-acrobatics
-swords dance
-will-o-wisp
-roost
Recover>psychic on staryu
Vulpix shouldn't use hypnosis and give it eviolite.
Like snaq said use specs charmeleon.
This is up to you but I would make rotom a subsplit set with substitute / pain split / shadow ball / tbolt or volt switch.
Other then that seems pretty good!
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
facepalm
you missed the whole point of what i am saying. nothing about a quiver Pass ban. just one on venomoth. and it was not just critdra and swift swimdra that were broken imo.
I am all for complex bans on other metas. The complication is actually to our benefit, new players might read up on the metagame before just trying to jump in and that might prevent noobs from using bad strategies and low ladder shit, and to also help them get better quickly. the problem in OU and primary in game metas is that wifi players cant be expected to adhere to such rules and as such this can cause major problems and people gaining bad reps in the community. In this meta that is not an issue as the only people who play it have to have seen the thread and read the rules. Therefore one complex ban doesnt have a major issue here: everybody who plays reads the thread. i think that we will not get next man up syndrome in this meta as it is just unnatural. therefore i think we dont have to worry about one complex ban becoming like 5.
Ok you really misread my post and I don want no trouble but the thing is that there is literally no benefit to banning quiver pass moth over just moth in general... Also you are trying to say that damp kingdra was broken? Complex bans should only happen when they're actually needed because eg the swift swim ban in bw was good so that you could use drizzle in the meta just lose a key component but rain was still god as we all know. You might think this draws parallels to your proposal but the thing is that there is literally no downside to banning venomoth so I find it incredibly pointless banning quiverpass on it.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
except for banning a great pokemon unneccessarily (it would be great if i spelled that right). This would be like a mega charX ban, rather than if it had baton pass and we banned bp on charX instead of charX as a whole. Lets not argue about charX on this thread please feel free to pm me. Venomoth without BP is in no ways truly broken as a metagame limiting factor, so i do not see it as stupid to attempt to see if it is not broken in other ways or if banning bp on it would solve our problem. its a proposal, nothing official and since a suspect has already started and i cant expect a change. if none is made i will vote ban venomoth
(I don't mean to come off as hostile in this post. If I do, know that it was not intended)
1. I tend to like Mixed Fletchinder because it deals w/ Ferroseed much better, but because I have Weepinbell around then I'll take parts from both sets and mash them up. I will likely swap Roost for U-Turn and call it a day.
2. I put Psychic on there for Nidoqueen, so I'll likely boot Ice Beam because it's really only there for Grass types and I have 3/4 mons who can take that out lol.
3. I prefer Heat Rock because it allows me to get more Sun. That's one reason why don't have any Sunny Day users. Plus, I don't tend to lead with sun, I keep it in the back so I can bring it out mid to late game and utilize my cleaners to finish up. I'll post a replay at some point in this post.
4. Testing/Using Specs now.
5. I would shift the Rotom set but I like the Scarf set as it allows me to uniquely deal with Golbat, Mawile, Venomoth, and others.
Thanks man :D I really appreciate the rate!
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play
- Spikes
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
Parasect @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Xatu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Wish / U-Turn
- Protect / Roost
Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
[hide/]
This is my stall team, it is very effective, I can deal with most teams that I find pretty well if I make the right plays. I'll go over each pokemon briefly.
Klefki: Klefki's job is to spread TWave and setup Spikes, Foul Play allows him to deal with the annoying Xatu and Sableye. Sub is for scouting and it helps getting more Spikes up safely.
Sableye: Sableye's job is to stop QuiverPass, a common strat on the ladder. I creeped him to outspeed opposing Sableye and get my Taunt first.
Parasect: Previously I had Ferroseed, but he wasn't doing his job well as a backup spiker and TWave spreader, but then Can-Eh-Dian posted the Quagsire + Klefki + Parasect core and I replaced Ferroseed with Para, it worked out great. Parasect is just an overall great wall in this meta. I recommend using it.
Quagsire: His job is to Toxic-stall opposing defensive and offensive pokemon that he can can wall. And he does it very well! I'm using one of the EV spread suggested here, which is really good. the rest off the moves are self-explanatory.
Xatu: His job is to stop opposing stall and proceed to rape the meta, because Xatu does shittons of damage to many top tier threats. But I'm uncertain of what set I should run, both of the ones I listed have proven to be effective, so I dunno.
Nidoqueen: One of the best wallbreakers on the meta IMO. does buttons of damage to everything except fucking nothing. Whoever since Ferroseed was gone from my team I had to give her Stealth Rock instead of Ice Beam. which sucks I guess.
I swear I didn't steal QPK (Quag + Parasect + Keys) lol.
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play
- Spikes
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
Parasect @ Leftovers
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Spore
- Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Xatu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Wish / U-Turn
- Protect / Roost
Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
[hide/]
This is my stall team, it is very effective, I can deal with most teams that I find pretty well if I make the right plays. I'll go over each pokemon briefly.
Klefki: Klefki's job is to spread TWave and setup Spikes, Foul Play allows him to deal with the annoying Xatu and Sableye. Sub is for scouting and it helps getting more Spikes up safely.
Sableye: Sableye's job is to stop QuiverPass, a common strat on the ladder. I creeped him to outspeed opposing Sableye and get my Taunt first.
Parasect: Previously I had Ferroseed, but he wasn't doing his job well as a backup spiker and TWave spreader, but then Can-Eh-Dian posted the Quagsire + Klefki + Parasect core and I replaced Ferroseed with Para, it worked out great. Parasect is just an overall great wall in this meta. I recommend using it.
Quagsire: His job is to Toxic-stall opposing defensive and offensive pokemon that he can can wall. And he does it very well! I'm using one of the EV spread suggested here, which is really good. the rest off the moves are self-explanatory.
Xatu: His job is to stop opposing stall and proceed to rape the meta, because Xatu does shittons of damage to many top tier threats. But I'm uncertain of what set I should run, both of the ones I listed have proven to be effective, so I dunno.
Nidoqueen: One of the best wallbreakers on the meta IMO. does buttons of damage to everything except fucking nothing. Whoever since Ferroseed was gone from my team I had to give her Stealth Rock instead of Ice Beam. which sucks I guess.
I swear I didn't steal QPK (Quag + Parasect + Keys) lol.
If you want to post about the suspect test please remember: There are two options on the table. Ban Venomoth or do not ban Venomoth. We are not suspecting Quiver Dance + Baton Pass right now and we are not considering any complex bans involving Venomoth.
xJownage Smogon does not do Pokemon specific complex bans in any tier for multiple reasons. If we were to nerf Venomoth to make it not broken, then by the same logic we would need to nerf Clefable and Kingdra to make them not broken since they have uses besides their broken sets. This makes the banlist very messy, and even though this is an OM, we should try to keep the banlist as clean as possible. Second, we could nerf Venomoth in any number of ways. We could ban Baton Pass, Quiver Dance, and / or Sleep Powder on Venomoth to potentially make it not broken. We could also ban Tinted Lens on Venomoth to potentially make it not broken. Determining exactly what complex ban to go with to eliminate the broken element of a Pokemon while minimizing the collateral damage is a huge waste of time and effort. Therefore, we go with the simplest solution and ban the broken Pokemon itself.
As for Venomoth itself, I think the strongest argument for banning it from MM is that it is banned from UU which has much stronger Pokemon than MM. Non Mega Mawile, Non Huge Power Medicham, Quagsire, Smeargle, and Klefki are the only Pokemon allowed in MM which are not allowed in UU. Unless you think at least one of these Pokemon is a really great check / counter to Venomoth which makes it less broken or over-centralizing, then Venomoth should be banned from MM by default because it is deemed broken in a tier where much more powerful threats exist.
xJownage Smogon does not do Pokemon specific complex bans in any tier for multiple reasons. If we were to nerf Venomoth to make it not broken, then by the same logic we would need to nerf Clefable and Kingdra to make them not broken since they have uses besides their broken sets. This makes the banlist very messy, and even though this is an OM, we should try to keep the banlist as clean as possible. Second, we could nerf Venomoth in any number of ways. We could ban Baton Pass, Quiver Dance, and / or Sleep Powder on Venomoth to potentially make it not broken. We could also ban Tinted Lens on Venomoth to potentially make it not broken. Determining exactly what complex ban to go with to eliminate the broken element of a Pokemon while minimizing the collateral damage is a huge waste of time and effort. Therefore, we go with the simplest solution and ban the broken Pokemon itself.
As for Venomoth itself, I think the strongest argument for banning it from MM is that it is banned from UU which has much stronger Pokemon than MM. Non Mega Mawile, Non Huge Power Medicham, Quagsire, Smeargle, and Klefki are the only Pokemon allowed in MM which are not allowed in UU. Unless you think at least one of these Pokemon is a really great check / counter to Venomoth which makes it less broken or over-centralizing, then Venomoth should be banned from MM by default because it is deemed broken in a tier where much more powerful threats exist.
Hey! So, my team was just made a couple minutes ago and it's pretty effective!
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mediocremons-139408561
It works in a similar way as Parasect/Quagsire/Klefki, but with a different motive: Damage
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mediocremons-139408561
It works in a similar way as Parasect/Quagsire/Klefki, but with a different motive: Damage
You need a lead or a new water type because of the kingdra ban?
Well, Qwilfish is actually pretty solid.
Qwilfish-Black Sludge
Intimidate, Impish nature
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Waterfall/Poison Jab
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Destiny Bond
The goal is to get as many spikes up as possible, and destiny bond when you are about to faint. This set has made Qwilfish one of my team players; you usually get a quick kill with destiny bond. If you use destiny bond on turn 1, unless your opponent is dumb, you get a free spike layer!
Well, Qwilfish is actually pretty solid.
Qwilfish-Black Sludge
Intimidate, Impish nature
252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Waterfall/Poison Jab
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Destiny Bond
The goal is to get as many spikes up as possible, and destiny bond when you are about to faint. This set has made Qwilfish one of my team players; you usually get a quick kill with destiny bond. If you use destiny bond on turn 1, unless your opponent is dumb, you get a free spike layer!
Last edited: