To add to this, Bulk Up Talonflame can also run Taunt to shut down pokemon like Heatran and Mega Mawile, who could otherwise phaze it out or boost alongside it/set up a substitute, respectively.
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Move Best Moves in the OU Metagame
- Thread starter Arcanine is Regal
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That's why I specifically mentioned BU and CM as being best for late game cleanup. SpDef BU Talonflame is a huge threat, being able to stall out a large number of physical threats with Will-o and Roost, and punch right through frailer threats after just one or two boosts with strong priority.
While I agree mostly with these posts, Id like to just manage the thread a little bit. I may not have been as clear as I should have been in the OP. I am mainly interested in the best/most prevalent moves in OU, because I think that will be the most helpful and will give us the best representation of where the meta stands. That being said, the moves distribution is very important, but good distribution can mean two things. First it could mean that a lot of viable pokes in OU have access to said move, Secondly it could mean how ajwf interpreted it, meaning a certain move is a given to a very popular pokemon in OU such as aegislash. Another example is healing wish, albacore wrote a very nice write-up that fits the idea of this thread perfectly, even though only 1-2 pokes in OU get it.
Id like to stray away from ranking the moves, because it is largely unnecessary, and I think a new thread has been started for that. I would like this one to follow the OP and people should be picking moves and doing short analysis on why they think they are the best, or they can comment on other peoples posts regarding that move. I am debating if I should be adding some of the posts to the OP, and I probably will just put them in a hide or something.
On the topic of Calm mind and Bulk Up, I would say Calm mind could be considered a great move because calm mind clefable,suicune,latias,reuniclus,gardevoir, can break teams single handedly.
Bulk up isnt in the same boat I feel because I cant really think of too many viable users besides like conkeldurr(which is mediocre at best), and????? I just dont think it is as good in OU as calm mind. I wouldnt mind seeing a nice write up of calm mind though, I think it would be a good one.
Id like to stray away from ranking the moves, because it is largely unnecessary, and I think a new thread has been started for that. I would like this one to follow the OP and people should be picking moves and doing short analysis on why they think they are the best, or they can comment on other peoples posts regarding that move. I am debating if I should be adding some of the posts to the OP, and I probably will just put them in a hide or something.
On the topic of Calm mind and Bulk Up, I would say Calm mind could be considered a great move because calm mind clefable,suicune,latias,reuniclus,gardevoir, can break teams single handedly.
Bulk up isnt in the same boat I feel because I cant really think of too many viable users besides like conkeldurr(which is mediocre at best), and????? I just dont think it is as good in OU as calm mind. I wouldnt mind seeing a nice write up of calm mind though, I think it would be a good one.
I agree to the extent that Bulk Up's distribution isn't as good as Calm Mind's (or at least, not in OU) but Bulk Up Talonflame really is, in my opinion, dangerous enough to warrant serious mention. I've seen it a few times around 1600-1700 or so on the ladder.
Bulk Up Conk may not be as effective as AV in general but it has a real surprise factor without being gimmicky (as almost everyone predicts AV these days). Just on a bit of a tangent, I've also seen some really good teams running Thunderpunch instead of Ice Punch on Conk as it stops things like Azu coming in to set up etc... Surprise factor can be valuable in today's metagame.
On the whole though, I think Bulk Up is a little less relevant in OU than Calm Mind. They're both very good though.
Actually thank you for bringing up talonflame, I completely forgot about it. Yeah that's a very good bulk up user and deserves to be mentioned. But yeah calm mind may still be better from a distribution stands point.
I don't think volt switch and u-turn should be grouped together. U-turn has a very important advantage over volt switch in that nothing is immune to bug, and when using the move for scouting that's very important, especially on choiced mons. Maybe the gap isn't big enough for them to be in different tiers but they should at least be considered separately.
Roost/Recover - Straight up 50% recovery is something any pokemon would love to have. Roost is unique in that it actually removes the user's Flying type (if it has it). This can often result not only in regained health, but depending on speed and typing, reduced damage from what would otherwise been a SE attack. Sure, for some pokes it's a potential detriment but it really is useful. Regular Recover is amazing too obviously.
Extremespeed - As far as priority goes this move is king for having higher than average BP for a priority move, as well as +2 in priority, meaning only a faster Extremespeed user will outpace you. This move is amazing for revenge killing and one of the many reasons that make pokemon like Dragonite so deadly. While Steel, Rock and Ghost resist this, most sweepers are not of these types, which means the move is good for fulfilling its intended purpose.
Wish - One of the only ways to heal team mates in Pokemon without items in Singles. The benefit is such that it can heal the user, or a team mate, often giving a substantial increase in life to bulky pokemon that otherwise don't have reliable Recovery. While it is dependent on the user's HP stat, very rarely will you heal a pokemon for less than 50% of it's health. This move is the definition of a team player.
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy - Curing status for your entire team? Almost invaluable. Two pokemon Burned and one asleep from Rest? No problem! They're all cured in a single turn! This move can often be a game changer and really throw a monkey wrench into your opponent's plans.
Whirlwind/Roar - The benefit is twofold. Pokemon that may otherwise be set up bait can now simply say "no thank you" and send that Dragon Dancer away for another day. On a team with hazards this can become really crippling because if you attempt to switch yourself you could find yourself simply forced out again and racking up more hazard damage. Roar also has the benefit of going through Substitute, which is a crutch many set-up pokemon might rely on.
Extremespeed - As far as priority goes this move is king for having higher than average BP for a priority move, as well as +2 in priority, meaning only a faster Extremespeed user will outpace you. This move is amazing for revenge killing and one of the many reasons that make pokemon like Dragonite so deadly. While Steel, Rock and Ghost resist this, most sweepers are not of these types, which means the move is good for fulfilling its intended purpose.
Wish - One of the only ways to heal team mates in Pokemon without items in Singles. The benefit is such that it can heal the user, or a team mate, often giving a substantial increase in life to bulky pokemon that otherwise don't have reliable Recovery. While it is dependent on the user's HP stat, very rarely will you heal a pokemon for less than 50% of it's health. This move is the definition of a team player.
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy - Curing status for your entire team? Almost invaluable. Two pokemon Burned and one asleep from Rest? No problem! They're all cured in a single turn! This move can often be a game changer and really throw a monkey wrench into your opponent's plans.
Whirlwind/Roar - The benefit is twofold. Pokemon that may otherwise be set up bait can now simply say "no thank you" and send that Dragon Dancer away for another day. On a team with hazards this can become really crippling because if you attempt to switch yourself you could find yourself simply forced out again and racking up more hazard damage. Roar also has the benefit of going through Substitute, which is a crutch many set-up pokemon might rely on.
idk why (on the last list at least) Baton Pass is under broken rank. The move itself isn't broken, but rather it is the strategy that has developed around the move that is considered to be broken. It is an A rank move and no higher imo simply because it isn't that hard to play around in small quantities. Quick-passing is viable in its own right, with pleanty of viable users of the strategy like Scolipede, Venomoth and Espeon that make it viable, but it is easy to play around the boosts then when they aren't in a chain of multiple users - the thing that made Denissss (or however it's spelled) so scary to face, but now his new alt reigns supreme in the new 3-long chain (which is argubly more broken than five- or six-long chains due to increasing creativity within teams). This is why there is the misconception of BP being broken, but the fact is that it's not the move itself that's broken (don't get me wrong: its great, but in no way broken), but rather the way that people started using the move that got out of hand and became so op, but yet it is still seen less than quick-passing simply because it is considered to not be very fun to use: making matches repetitive and easy for the user. I love getting out Scolipede and quick-passing 3-4 boosts to something, only to then get taken out by Talonflame, Scizor, Conkeldurr, Breloom and other common prioroty users.
Close Combat
Distribution legal in ou:
Arcanine, Cobalion, Gallade, Granbull, Growlithe, Hariyama, Heracross, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Infernape, Keldeo, Lucario, Machamp, Machoke, Machop, Makuhita, Mankey, Meloetta, Monferno, Pinsir, Primeape, Sawk, Smeargle, Snubbull, Staraptor, Teddiursa, Terrakion, Ursaring, Virizion, Zangoose
All of these pokemon can make good use of Close Combat except Machop evolution line, Smeargle and Keldeo.
Also, all of them use it commonly except Machop evolution line, Smeargle, Keldeo, Meloetta (I think) and Pinsir.
The main reason I didn't put it higher was because of the viability of users.
The only ou viable users are Infernape, Lucario (Not sure about these 2), Staraptor, Mega Pinsir and Terrakion.
It affects the game a lot, this is why it's good: Fighting type is a good type in ou hitting annoying pokemon such as Excadrill. Tyranitar, Bisharp and Chansey super effectively on their weaker physical side. It has a high base power with reasonable drawbacks. A drop in both defenses hardly matters because most users are frail anyway, going to switch out after using it or are sweeping your team. It is the best physical fighting type move in the game for anything (except machop line) that has access to it. It is also the main reason Mega Lucario was banned to ubers as without it, it would have to rely on a weaker special set with less coverage or rely on 75-80% accurate STAB moves (Iron tail and Cross Chop).
tl;dr: great move but not many viable users
EDIT: didn't know we weren't ranking them, removed rankings
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Trick/Switcheroo: breaks walls, disrupts the opponent's strategy, cripples defensive pokémon and hampers many offensive ones. It gives your own choice'd mons added versatility, e.g. a choice'd Latios Tricking the opponent's Chansey and thus ruining the defensive backbone of the opponent's team. Tricking a pokémon heavily reliant on set-up (e.g. Clefable, Volcarona) makes that pokémon much, much easier to deal with and can prevent a sweep. Some defensive pokémon such as Magic Guard or Prankster users can also use Trick to pass on unwanted items (e.g. Flame Orb) while stealing the opponent's useful ones.
Trick became more of a liabillity this gen than in previous ones because of Mega Stones, which can't be removed, but despite this Trick has incredible value on balanced teams to deal with stall, or serving as an emergency save against opposing bulky/balanced and occasionally offensive threats. It requires some prediction to pull off, but the payoff is worth the risk.
Trick became more of a liabillity this gen than in previous ones because of Mega Stones, which can't be removed, but despite this Trick has incredible value on balanced teams to deal with stall, or serving as an emergency save against opposing bulky/balanced and occasionally offensive threats. It requires some prediction to pull off, but the payoff is worth the risk.
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I would like to add to this: if they're holding a Charizardite X, Tyranitarite or Gyaradosite; you could be in a lot of trouble since they will most likely Dragon Dance and KO/Weaken 1-6 things on your team.
if this was doubles people would probably agree but in singles, 5 turns just isn't enough to fully take advantage of
it can be devastating at times but it's distribution is poor and the lack of a lengthening item for it makes it really lack luster in singles
it's probably B tier
it can be devastating at times but it's distribution is poor and the lack of a lengthening item for it makes it really lack luster in singles
it's probably B tier
I think Swords Dance deserves a high ranking in terms of best moves in OU. Just off the top of my head, OU Pokemon that can run Swords Dance include Talonflame, Garchomp, Terrakion, Landorus-T, Lucario, Bisharp, Excadrill, Aegislash, Mega Pinsir, Mega Mawile, and Mega Scizor. Being able to double your Attack stat is extremely helpful and allows these sweepers to break through physical walls that would completely shut them down without Swords Dance. With the offensive nature of the current metagame and how well these Pokemon fit on Deoxys HO teams, you're bound to see many Swords Dance users in the tier.
BenTheDemon
Banned deucer.
Trick Room is a damn good move.
Though it doesn't exactly shape OU, the move is great for making Slow, Bulky Tanks into Fast, Bulky Sweepers while turning oponents' High Speeds against them.
Though in the current metagame, priority is extremely common. But even so, Trick Room cannot be ignored.
Also, Fire Blast for Zard Y is probably the most spammable move in OU.
Even without Sun and 159 base SpA, it is still a welcome STAB or coverage move on any Special Attacker that gets it.
Ice Beam is also an amazing offensive move due to its great coverage and distribution. Greninja and Kyurem-B are the main users.
Though it doesn't exactly shape OU, the move is great for making Slow, Bulky Tanks into Fast, Bulky Sweepers while turning oponents' High Speeds against them.
Though in the current metagame, priority is extremely common. But even so, Trick Room cannot be ignored.
Also, Fire Blast for Zard Y is probably the most spammable move in OU.
Even without Sun and 159 base SpA, it is still a welcome STAB or coverage move on any Special Attacker that gets it.
Ice Beam is also an amazing offensive move due to its great coverage and distribution. Greninja and Kyurem-B are the main users.
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Smog Frog In all honesty, i feel ranking moves is a really subjective and impossible task that doesn't really have any use here. Its pretty obvious whether a move is or isn't good, a viability thread won't help that, and moves are only as good as their users. You cannot accurately rank moves, full stop. Some one could write "Moves to avoid in competetive battling" but even then some moves have their uses and you're just stating the obvious if you say "Mud Slap is bad".
Leech Seed: My personal favorite move, that isn't utilized nearly enough. It cripples almost any Pokemon that shows up, effectively lowers the force of their moves, makes it nearly impossible to break through defensive mons, it's dangerous to switch into, and makes defensive Grass types so damn dangerous.
I don't think my description does the move justice.
I don't think my description does the move justice.
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
Mandatory Ice Beam mention. Ice is the most common weakness found among S- and A-ranked pokemon, with 13/40 being weak to it (14 if you count Venusaur before mega evolving), making the move highly spammable.
Ice weakness is also common among the lower ranks, with pokemon such as Zapdos and Togekiss.
While not reliable, the 10% freeze chance can also turn the tables on the match in the blink of an eye.
Surprisingly enough, despite its wide distribution there aren't many users of the move in XY OU though the best ones, Greninja and Kyurem-B, certainly stand out as both are offensive powerhouses who benefit from STAB.
Ice weakness is also common among the lower ranks, with pokemon such as Zapdos and Togekiss.
While not reliable, the 10% freeze chance can also turn the tables on the match in the blink of an eye.
Surprisingly enough, despite its wide distribution there aren't many users of the move in XY OU though the best ones, Greninja and Kyurem-B, certainly stand out as both are offensive powerhouses who benefit from STAB.
Also completes the boltbeam combo, making it a valuable coverage move to many sweepers
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