XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[MikeDawg]

Shuckle for A Rank

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ru-stage-2-bumpin-bumpin.3510066/

Literally almost all of this applies to uu

except uu has things like focus energy kingdra and mega blastoise to supplement

You can tell from turn 1 if it's gg, barring a hjk miss or something

 

[Meru]

Shuckle for A Rank

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ru-stage-2-bumpin-bumpin.3510066/

Literally almost all of this applies to uu

except uu has things like focus energy kingdra and mega blastoise to supplement

You can tell from turn 1 if it's gg, barring a hjk miss or something

As someone who has dabbled extensively in both tiers, I'm gonna refute that nom. Unlike the RU metagame, UU has a plethora of ways to go about hazard removal, so no, Shuckle's dominance in RU doesn't immediately apply to the UU metagame.

That's not to say Shuckle is immediately E tier. But A rank is far too generous for Shuckle in UU.

 

[MikeDawg]

As someone who has dabbled extensively in both tiers, I'm gonna refute that nom. Unlike the RU metagame, UU has a plethora of ways to go about hazard removal, so no, Shuckle's dominance in RU doesn't immediately apply to the UU metagame.

That's not to say Shuckle is immediately E tier. But A rank is far too generous for Shuckle in UU.

I don't think that hazard removal against webs is nearly as easy as you think, at least against a typical web team.

Common spinners are what? Starmie and Donphan?

Donphan loses to doublade most of the time. If doublade comes in on rapid spin, it can swords dance and usually win with iron head. If it comes in on eq, it can still sd and iron head, and then something like blastoise can come in right after. Once donphan is brought to ~50% by doublade, it cannot spin on anything on the team anymore.

Starmie beats doublade 1 on 1. But if doublade comes in on spin, it can 1hko with shadow claw and starmie can't ohko

if it comes in on hpump, it can get off a shadow sneak, weakening starmie enough so that it cannot spin against the rest of the team (as if it could against most of the mons regardless). keep in mind that almost every member outspeeds starmie under webs.

Defog is a pain, yes. But keeping shuckle alive if a defogger is present isn't too difficult to do. Defoggers cant defog on shuckle itself because it can encore and allow a teammate to setup (or just setup more hazards on the switch). Defogging is made even more difficult by the fact that if they do defog, they will likely be 1hkod (with the exception of something like a crobat-hitmonlee matchup. but knock off hurts and crobat is likely weakened by rocks). As a result, defogging will happen, realisitcally, a maximum of one time.

Unfortunately, uu doesn't have its version of braviary, but the boost in power allows web teams to keep more pressure on the defoggers themselves anyway.

Absol is the greatest pain to deal with, but it can be solved by leading with blastoise for example instead (they don't have much of a choice of who to lead with given how dangerous shuckle is when it sets up. If absol is on the team they likely dont have any other method of hazard removal either).

Kindra can be an issue as well as it makes you play the encore or setup game

Shuckle should DEFINITELY be ranked higher than galvantula by a long shot.

For those who aren't experienced in ru, shuckle is not beaten by taunt because of mental herb. This means that in combination with sturdy (as if much of anything is getting off a ko to begin with), shuckle will always get up hazards unless they have a magic bouncer.

To be honest, ru had just as good defoggers as well with the likes of gligar and golbat. UU is mostly centralized around grounded mons too, just as much as ru is. The flying mons are typically relatively slow as well (think hydreigon) or weak (crobat), so there is ample opportunity to beat them.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Shuckle is viable, but it's far from A Rank lol. It's still on its own rather sub par and easy to take advantage of, and this isn't RU where they don't have Mega Blastoise and Starmie. I think you're forgetting about Mega Blastoise, who basically crushes most spinblockers in the tier and is getting its spin. This tier also has a really reliable Defogger in Mew lol. Anyways, Shuckle isn't A Rank, but I think B+ Rank would be okay for it. Sticky Web is a viable thing to run in UU, and Shuckle is the best user of the move in the game, there are plenty of good ways to use Webs in UU, so B+ would be fitting for Shuckle since it's the best user of the move.

I'll post about P-Z and Raikou later, just wanted to get that across.

 

[MikeDawg]

Ah yes. Blastoise, I knew I was forgetting one. :P Though, even a dark pulse on a predicted doublade switch in can allow x wallbreak to come in and either kill blastoise or kill it after it gets off the spin because blastoise is real hard to 1hko (since shuckle typically lives after setup, this is usually not too much of a problem)

B+ (or A- pls) are sufficient, but B- is insulting

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

While shuckle should not be anywhere near A rank it definitely should be over galvantula as access to stealth rock and actual bulk makes it much preferred since web offense is already strapped for teamslots as it is. Dont agree with queen dropping as its better than king due to being able to fill defensive roles so putting them in the same rank is misleading, and since we're talking about moving up mons, Chandelure is amazing in this meta due to breaking stall and checking lucario while serving as a nice spinblocker for offensive teams, A or A+ is more fit for it. Froslass should probably go somewhere in A- or A as spike stack is still good despite the omnipresence of defog and rapid spin since froslass can stop most users of it and as seen by Empire its a very effective play style. Stoutland is a monstrous sweeper thanks to sand rush and that nice 110 base attack, definitely needs to be at the A ranks. Raikou can go either way in A- or A due to its great overall stats, calm mind and excellent electric stab but the presence of blissey is very annoying for it while ground types are still very popular and raikou cant carry both necessary hidden powers to beat them all.

 

[cacturne]

PZ shouldn't be A wth. Also completely support stout land and chandelure to be some where in the A ranks, chandelure higher tho.

Also raikou should probs drop to B+ coz of blissey, unlike other special attackers it can't go mixed .

did you type this on your phone oml i can barely read it. also raikou is fine where it is since Sub CM lets it do just fine against special walls without needing to go mixed. B+ is way too low for raikou. Chandy is fine where it is and PZ is an a rank mon because everything here is basically what you need to know. i think PZ is fine in A as it is a very threatening sweeper with great coverage and can even be a semi effective choice abuser

 

[BenTheDemon]

Nominating Mega-Aerodactyl for S-Rank.
This thing is an absolute monster with great Attack and Speed stats, and an equally great movepool.

-Mega Aerodactyl outspeeds and OHKOs non-Sash variants. It 2HKOs Sash variants while Alakazam can only do around 60% to Aero with Psyshock.

-Chance to 2HKO max Defense variants. Chance to OHKO Specially Defensive variants.

-OHKOs with Aerial Ace while Infernape maxes 75% (without a crit) with Scarfed ThunderPunch. Outspeeds and OHKOs non-Scarfed variants.

-Usually loses. :/ Can't win 'em all.

-OHKOs with Aerial Ace while Jolly Scarf set barely misses the OHKO with Stone Edge.

-Guaranteed 2HKO with Ice Fang, but Hydreigon also gets the guaranteed 2HKO with Scarfed Draco Meteor.

-Can 2HKO, but Lucario has a Chance to OHKO with Close Combat and guaranteed to 2HKO with CLose Combat and Bullet Punch/Extreme Speed. So Mega-Aerodactyl usually loses.

-Crunch 2HKOs all Specially Defensive variants, and has a chance to 2HKO Physically Defensive variants while Mew cannot 2HKO back.

-OHKOs with Stone Edge 93% of the time. Victini also OHKOs with Bolt Strike with a Band, but only has a 33% chance to OHKO with Bolt Strike and a Scarf.

 

[Jacks0n]

did you type this on your phone oml i can barely read it. also raikou is fine where it is since Sub CM lets it do just fine against special walls without needing to go mixed. B+ is way too low for raikou. Chandy is fine where it is and PZ is an a rank mon because everything here is basically what you need to know. i think PZ is fine in A as it is a very threatening sweeper with great coverage and can even be a semi effective choice abuser

Yes written on my Phone lol. But seriously sub calm mind Chandey solos stall and solidly checks nape and Luc, it's definitely an a rank Pokemon.

You say PZ is a threatening sweeper, but it can't set up on rly anything on offence, as well as mega aero being more popular on stall, easily rkilling PZ. B+ ain't bad, it's just flawed and needs support. Also sub calm mid raikou doesn't bet blissey...

 

[Skankovich]

I really feel mega-banette needs to move up, its movepool is just insane for prankster and it can basically be customised to cripple whatever troubles your team, and its bulk is decent when invested. There's just so much it can do and there's very few safe switch ins out there. Switch in a fire type or special attacker to absorb a will o wisp? Then it suddenly eats a thunder wave. Switch in rotom h to absorb all the statuses? It gets its item knocked off. Switch in blissey because it dgaf about status? It's taunted into uselessness. Try to revenge with a quicker special attacker that's immune to thunder wave? It destiny bonds and you're still at a numbers disadvantage.

Of course, it has huge 4mss, especially since it often has to run protect to get a safe mega evolution in, but this isn't too much of an issue as it functions as a nice lead with frisk and its various crippling moves. As long as it's able to mega evolve you can guarantee it'll be able to hugely soften up the enemy team.

I think it fits well in B+, but right now I just can't see how it's sitting in B- with Ninjask and below even Mega Abomasnow.

EDIT: oh it also hits pretty hard even uninvested but that's not really why you should use Meganette

 

[DiscoDucky]

Analyzing cyberduck...

Porygon-Z (A-) -> A | Porygon-Z is a fucking monster in XY UU; not even the new drops can hope to stop it. Let's go over the positives. For starters, thanks to the Steel-type nerf, Porygon-Z can now hit everything relevant in UU neutrally with Shadow Ball and STAB Tri Attack. Secondly, all of its Abilities have their uses: Adaptability makes Tri Attack a complete nuke, Analytic severely punishes Pokémon switching in on Porygon-Z and lastly, Download gives Porygon-Z a chance to get a free Choice Specs boost if the opponent's Defense exceeds their Special Defense. Lastly, it has two fantastic boosting moves in Agility, which turns it into a lethal sweeper, as well as Nasty Plot, making it a scarily powerful special wallbreaker. Due to the aforementioned coverage, Porygon-Z can even run a Double Booster set that allows the player to boost depending on what's necessary: Agility for speedier teams and Nasty Plot for slower and defensive teams. Of course, if you have the chance, just get both in and nuke your opponent's team. On top of all of this, Porygon-Z is ridiculously hard to switch in onto, as nothing likes to take that massive Tri Attack coming from an explosive 135 Special Attack; considering Porygon-Z usually runs Modest, that makes it even scarier. If a special attacker can 2HKO Blissey, you know it's some lethal shit.
Sadly, Porygon-Z's Normal-type makes it decidedly average defensively. Its 85/75/75 bulk doesn't make it terribly resilient and it's susceptible to priority, including top threat Infernape's Mach Punch. Scarfers also revenge kill cyburd pretty easily, as 90 Speed, while good, isn't quite great. Nevertheless, Porygon-Z is a devastating special attacker in XY UU and should definitely always be prepared for. Porygon-Z for A.

Correction. Porygon-Z can only 2HKO Blissey if it's wearing Specs and running Hyper Beam. It's a joke as old as Gen IV bro

As I've said in earlier before, Porygon-Z's best set is its Mixed Wallbreaker set that runs Double Edge/Tri Attack/Dark Pulse/filler or some shit like that with Download and Life Orb. Pre-Blissey, it could destroy pretty much every single defense core. However, it's less effective now now that Blissey is around. So, arguably, Porygon-Z is much less useful with Blissey around and thus should drop to B. The only reason I say B is because (lol) not only is every single wallbreaker set non-effective, but it also has next to no set-up opportunities for either Nasty Plot or Agility.

I don't have much experience with Raikou, but I think it's fine at A-, even B+. It's 115 Speed tier is nice in this metagame as it does deal with the 108 benchmark fairly well.

I really feel mega-banette needs to move up, its movepool is just insane for prankster and it can basically be customised to cripple whatever troubles your team, and its bulk is decent when invested. There's just so much it can do and there's very few safe switch ins out there. Switch in a fire type or special attacker to absorb a will o wisp? Then it suddenly eats a thunder wave. Switch in rotom h to absorb all the statuses? It gets its item knocked off. Switch in blissey because it dgaf about status? It's taunted into uselessness. Try to revenge with a quicker special attacker that's immune to thunder wave? It destiny bonds and you're still at a numbers disadvantage.

Of course, it has huge 4mss, especially since it often has to run protect to get a safe mega evolution in, but this isn't too much of an issue as it functions as a nice lead with frisk and its various crippling moves. As long as it's able to mega evolve you can guarantee it'll be able to hugely soften up the enemy team.

I think it fits well in B+, but right now I just can't see how it's sitting in B- with Ninjask and below even Mega Abomasnow.

Sableye kind of does the same job that Mega-Banette does. Although they do have different tools to utilize that distinguish one from the other, Mega-Banette has to major disadvantages:

1) It's base form is shit and frail and needs to M-Evolve to be remotely useful
2) It takes up a Mega slot

To be honest, you can't justify a move-up or a move-down without comparing its performance to the current meta. All you've listed were things it could do, but it doesn't tell me how effectively it does it and how well does it do in the current meta (teammates, new threats to counter, etc.). Essentially, no justification has been given for Mega-Banette movement.

 

[Skankovich]

Sableye can do the same job as Meganette, but it doesn't have anywhere near the versatility. Everyone knows Sableye is WoW/Recover/Taunt/FoulPlay or Knock off and can act accordingly, you don't have the same thing with Banette. I don't really know how to phrase banette's role in the current metagame, I mean there's not much out there that banette can't stop sweeping, there's not much out there it can't cripple.

The most I can give is that in particular it manhandles lucario and blissey and stall in general like sableye, but can also manhandle the stuff that doesn't like thunder wave, albeit not at the same time. With a full spdef spread, Alakazam only has a 19% chance to 2hko with shadow ball, chandelure can't 1hko without life orb and even then it's only a 30% or so chance, hydreigon can't 1hko at all even with life orb, and 2 of these have a decent chance to be ohko'd with uninvested knock off and none of them like thunder wave. Banette lures the likes of infernape/victini/darm and slaps them with unexpected paralysis.

It really hates mega absol and can't do much besides burn aromatisse's aromatherapies up, but mega banette has a lot of versatility and can cripple a large portion of the metagame. Unlike sableye, it can't stay in and stall out the threats it cripples due to a lack of recovery (there's pain split but eh...), but it has an important niche in priority thunder wave, destiny bond and even disable that sableye can't fill. This alone should at least bring it to B.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Correction. Porygon-Z can only 2HKO Blissey if it's wearing Specs and running Hyper Beam. It's a joke as old as Gen IV bro

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 299-354 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 299-354 (45.8 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Any non-max HP/SDef Blissey is 2HKOed by Modest +2 Tri Attack. Come again?

 

[DiscoDucky]

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 299-354 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 299-354 (45.8 - 54.2%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Any non-max HP/SDef Blissey is 2HKOed by Modest +2 Tri Attack. Come again?

Okay, fine. I thought you meant a clean 2HKO (where all percentages are 50%+).

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 354-418 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Duly noted.

 

[Machi]

Ah yes. Blastoise, I knew I was forgetting one. :P Though, even a dark pulse on a predicted doublade switch in can allow x wallbreak to come in and either kill blastoise or kill it after it gets off the spin because blastoise is real hard to 1hko (since shuckle typically lives after setup, this is usually not too much of a problem)

B+ (or A- pls) are sufficient, but B- is insulting

There are also good defoggers like Mew as mentioned, and can go about crippling Doublade without fear, as well as Gligar or MAero. Aside from that UU has more levitators so to speak like Hydregion or relevant fliers like MAero again so it isn't all that difficult to work around. Moreover, it is harder to fit Doublade in due to the prevalence of dominant Dark and Fire attacks in the tier. Adding to that you also have the annoying pink core that again doesn't care very much for its speed and has bulk to tank heavy hits. Or just don't plain care like MAmpharos. So sticky web just isn't as effective in UU as compared to just straight out damage provided by Stealth Rock or Spikes that isn't as easy to work around.

 

[Bouff]

these noms..are disgusting oh my god.

Shuckle should stay the fuck away from the high B ranks, let alone A rank. It gets assmongled by such a high portion of the tier, particularly the bulky-water types, and hazard control is much more common in UU than RU, and is also much more easier to handle. Also, the fact that people claim it's much better than Galvantula as a setter is sad. Sure, Shuckle can get up both hazards, and after that it's pretty much left to die, and very rarely has any opportunities to get its hazards back up. But Galvantula is so much better for the fact that, unlike Shuckle, who can't do shit offensively to anything, it can actually hit some Pokemon for reliable damage, and actually has the advantage over most hazard cleaners, as Electric / Bug is solid coverage and hits things like Stoise, Mew, Starmie, Crobat, MAero for super effective damage.


I don't get how anyone could nom Stoutland for a higher rank than the thing that makes it good LOL... Stoutland is practically reliant on Sand, and has an absurd amount of trouble with general physical walls, such as Hippo (lol), Forretress, Mega Aggron, Sunfish, etc. Granted, it can get through some of these, but it also has a severe case of 4MSS, being forced to choose between moves such as Wild Charge, Fire Fang, Superpower, whatever. And for most teams, having a reliable physical wall, mainly the aformentioned Hippowdon, makes it fairly easy to stall out sand and make Stoutland significantly less useful (granted Hippo p much has to have Sand Force). I'd say the highest it should go is B+, no more.

Chandelure should really be in A-, it could possibly go up to A but i really don't think it should. Yes, it beats most stall teams. Yes, it's one of the best checks to Infernape in the tier. But are we all really forgetting how much it struggles with shit such as Mega Houndoom, HYDREIGON, and Dark-types in general? Not to mention that it's weak to SR and can be forced out quite easily.


Meganette (however you spell the actual name idk)... I really haven't seen much of, but it can be of annoyance to a good portion of teams, and is a pretty decent stallbreaker. However, like Chandelure, it still has lots of trouble with Dark-types like Hydrei and Mega Absol, despite having access to priority Destiny Bond, and is kinda outclassed by Sableye in any role other than having much better offensive stats. I think it should move to B, or at the very least, stay where it currently is.

Raikou and Porygon-Z I'll write about in the same paragraph; both should probably be B+, maybe B for PZ. Raikou is a general bitch for most teams lacking Blissey, and can setup on a large portion of the tier, but the fact that Blissey is literally everywhere in the tier, and the fact that it has to decide on what checks it with the Hidden Power typing makes it not nearly as good as what it was last gen. Porygon-Z, can be an extremely dangerous threat to most teams with its double dance set, but its lackluster bulk and defensive typing, as well as the prominence of mons such as Blissey, Lucario, and Infernape make it really hard for PZ to do well.

 

[dingbat]

Could you please state your reasoning for this please? I haven't heard a single person other than you support the Nidos dropping a rank

He also discusses with others about the potential ranks on the IRC chat.

And I guess I'll throw in my two cents amidst this derailment in the thread as well.

Porygon-Z should be B+ rank; Kitten's got a really good point there. Its Specs set can still puncture the shit out of most teams that lack Blissey and its double dance set is hard to revenge kill after it accumulates its boosts, but these new threats, particularly sash Zam, Lucario, Infernapes (to an extent), and the aforementioned Blissey (unless you're real and you run mixgon-z) really make Porygon Z's job of sweeping/wallbreaking quite tougher due to their overall presence in this tier and their ability to cut the duck's sweep short.

Raikou should also drop to B+ rank B(-) rank. Although it no longer faces competition with Manectric as a fast Electric-type attacker, which certainly helps it a bit, Raikou, like Porygon-Z, did not fare so well with the drops as there are now more threats that can effectively revenge kill Raikou, and its inability to even use Blissey as setup fodder with its Sub-CM tells a lot about how its been impacted. However, the silver lining to these drops for Raikou is that unlike Porygon-Z, its base 115 speed still allows it to be a scarfer (albeit weaker) that effectively outruns all of the common Scarfers (including ScarfApes), Alakazams, and especially the increasingly popular Mega Aerodactyl, something that can really prove useful in many cases.

 

[KM]

He also discusses with others about the potential ranks on the IRC chat.

And I guess I'll throw in my two cents amidst this derailment in the thread as well.

particularly sash Zam

the reason I'm quoting just this is because it's really, really important. Sash Zam being pretty common (and being the only sashed offensive mon commonly used) means that hard-hitting nuke sweeper mons like Porygon-Z and Last Resort Meloetta who require momentum and turns of set-up have gotten fairly significantly worse. Sash Zam's status as an emergency check to literally anything should not be understated when discussing mons like P-Z.

I'd actually argue that Raikou should drop a bit further to B- rank though. Fast Electrics were the kings of UU last gen, and they aren't this gen - and there's a reason why. The amount of special bulk in Gen 6 compared to Gen 5 is incomparable - Umbreon, Porygon2, and Snorlax all share a common weakness, and are relatively easy to wear down. By contrast, Hippowdon, Blissey, Florges and Aromatisse pose significantly bigger problems to fast electrics due to their longevity, typing, and variety. Therefore, it's not other fast electrics that Raikou faces competition from (not that there really even are any). The slot that Raikou is competing for is the slot that is taken up by Mega-Ampharos, Rotom-Mow, and Rotom-Heat - relatively "slow" electric mons that are incredible defensive pivots. Having a fast volt switch isn't really a blessing.

As dingbat said, the only niche that Raikou retains is its Scarf set, which amounts to nothing more than a generic fastmon that does decent damage, has moderately good coverage, and can potentially sweep offensive teams in the very late game. Very rarely is this sufficient to warrant an entire team slot.

The B+ ranking is currently inhabited by the Nidos, Florges, Mega-Houndoom - these pokemon are incredibly usable compared to Raikou. By contrast, Raikou finds its perfect match in B- rank - the (technically unrated) Heliolisk, who exchanges marginally worse stats for a far better ability and fills very much the same role.

 

[silenced]

To be quite blunt, Raikou's choice scarf set is bad. Really bad.

252 SpA Raikou Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 168-198 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 192-226 (59 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 217-256 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 202-238 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 236-278 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I've just selected quite a number of common choice scarf mons that one may want to use Raikou to outspeed, and the damning fact is without significant prior damage, Raikou doesn't get the revenge kill. IDK about other people's opinions, but to me that is really bad if I want to stop a sweep from moxiecross, moxiedile, hell even darmanitan unless it takes a fair chunk of SR + FB recoil. Being unable to KO victini after a stat drop from V-create really stinks too. Really Raikou is subpar for using a scarf.

SubCM is dead. Sashzam, blissey and goodra, alongside the other viable ground types and snorlax just make it a waste of team slot to use.

Really the only thing it has left is LO/Specs, of which I'm not certain enough that it warrants something good for a rating. I reckon bar the scarf comments, kitten milk has got it right.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Hmm...

Raikou (A-) -> B- | This may seem like an extreme drop, but Kitten Milk and silenced before me have perfectly explained exactly why Thundercat has fallen from grace. The June drops are extremely harsh to it; Blissey and Goodra wall the everloving fuck out of Raikou, Snorlax can still deal with it quite well, Alakazam quickly disposes of most Raikou variants, as Psyshock hits Raikou's average 75 Defense. As illustrated by silenced, Raikou is a really shitty Scarfer, as it just can't KO what it needs to KO. Mega Ampharos has an overall far better typing with additional resistances, as well as a secondary Dragon-type STAB and it can perform as both a defensive pivot and a setup attacker, even using Raikou as setup bait. There's really little reason to consider Raikou in current UU; its power is lacking, it's got severe coverage issues and is overall outclassed, so at that I say Raikou for B-.

Mega Aerodactyl (A+) -> S | On another note, I've been thinking a bit about this rise and will explain. Mega Aerodactyl is an incredibly versatile and powerful threat in XY UU, hands down the best Mega Evolution in the tier. It's able to check an absurdly large amount of Pokémon in the tier and provides a solid answer to Fire- and Fighting-types that run rampant in UU, such as Infernape, Victini, Darmanitan, Mega Houndoom, Mienshao and Heracross. Mega Aerodactyl possesses a great 135 Attack stat which, coupled with its mostly Tough Claws-boosted coverage movepool and STAB Aerial Ace, allows it to put a serious dent into everything; due to its wide coverage, Mega Aerodactyl can hit a large myriad of Pokémon supereffectively. Its blazingly fast 150 Speed makes it so that the prehistoric beast can use an Adamant nature for maximum power while still outspeeding most prominent threats. Mega Aerodactyl's bulk isn't half bad for a sweeper, either, sporting 80/85/95 defensive stats. Due to its useful resistances to Bug and Fire, Mega Aerodactyl can run a specially defensive Defog set with SR that not only pressurizes the opponent's hazard setters, but allows the beast to set up hazards to support its own team with as well.
Unfortunately, Mega Aerodactyl has some flaws in the form of a weakness to SR, limiting its switch-in opportunities and Defogging potential. Its nasty Water-type weakness plagues it, too, considering the large amount of Water-types in the tier; fortunately, Mega Aerodactyl can run Crunch to get past Slowbro.
Countermeasuring the few flaws Mega Aerodactyl has are many positive points that make this Pokémon shine in the UU tier as one of its greatest threats. Mega Aerodactyl for S.

 

[Jacks0n]

Completely support mega aero for S. I argued for it before but it got little reaction, it's so fast and powerful, destroying so many S, A+ and A threats, it needs to move up.

 

[SomeDrunkRockLee]

To be quite blunt, Raikou's choice scarf set is bad. Really bad.

252 SpA Raikou Extrasensory vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 168-198 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 192-226 (59 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 217-256 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 202-238 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 236-278 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I've just selected quite a number of common choice scarf mons that one may want to use Raikou to outspeed, and the damning fact is without significant prior damage, Raikou doesn't get the revenge kill. IDK about other people's opinions, but to me that is really bad if I want to stop a sweep from moxiecross, moxiedile, hell even darmanitan unless it takes a fair chunk of SR + FB recoil. Being unable to KO victini after a stat drop from V-create really stinks too. Really Raikou is subpar for using a scarf.

SubCM is dead. Sashzam, blissey and goodra, alongside the other viable ground types and snorlax just make it a waste of team slot to use.

Really the only thing it has left is LO/Specs, of which I'm not certain enough that it warrants something good for a rating. I reckon bar the scarf comments, kitten milk has got it right.

You didn't even bother mentioning the following: if raikou does want to run aura sphere, which allows it to do some amount of damage to special walls like Snorlax or Umbreon, it must run a rash nature, both compromising its special bulk as well as allowing other scarfers, like Ape or Mienshao, to easily outspeed and take it out; I fully agree on Raikou --> B-

Hmm...

Raikou (A-) -> B- | This may seem like an extreme drop, but Kitten Milk and silenced before me have perfectly explained exactly why Thundercat has fallen from grace. The June drops are extremely harsh to it; Blissey and Goodra wall the everloving fuck out of Raikou, Snorlax can still deal with it quite well, Alakazam quickly disposes of most Raikou variants, as Psyshock hits Raikou's average 75 Defense. As illustrated by silenced, Raikou is a really shitty Scarfer, as it just can't KO what it needs to KO. Mega Ampharos has an overall far better typing with additional resistances, as well as a secondary Dragon-type STAB and it can perform as both a defensive pivot and a setup attacker, even using Raikou as setup bait. There's really little reason to consider Raikou in current UU; its power is lacking, it's got severe coverage issues and is overall outclassed, so at that I say Raikou for B-.

Mega Aerodactyl (A+) -> S | On another note, I've been thinking a bit about this rise and will explain. Mega Aerodactyl is an incredibly versatile and powerful threat in XY UU, hands down the best Mega Evolution in the tier. It's able to check an absurdly large amount of Pokémon in the tier and provides a solid answer to Fire- and Fighting-types that run rampant in UU, such as Infernape, Victini, Darmanitan, Mega Houndoom, Mienshao and Heracross. Mega Aerodactyl possesses a great 135 Attack stat which, coupled with its mostly Tough Claws-boosted coverage movepool and STAB Aerial Ace, allows it to put a serious dent into everything; due to its wide coverage, Mega Aerodactyl can hit a large myriad of Pokémon supereffectively. Its blazingly fast 150 Speed makes it so that the prehistoric beast can use an Adamant nature for maximum power while still outspeeding most prominent threats. Mega Aerodactyl's bulk isn't half bad for a sweeper, either, sporting 80/85/95 defensive stats. Due to its useful resistances to Bug and Fire, Mega Aerodactyl can run a specially defensive Defog set with SR that not only pressurizes the opponent's hazard setters, but allows the beast to set up hazards to support its own team with as well.
Unfortunately, Mega Aerodactyl has some flaws in the form of a weakness to SR, limiting its switch-in opportunities and Defogging potential. Its nasty Water-type weakness plagues it, too, considering the large amount of Water-types in the tier; fortunately, Mega Aerodactyl can run Crunch to get past Slowbro.
Countermeasuring the few flaws Mega Aerodactyl has are many positive points that make this Pokémon shine in the UU tier as one of its greatest threats. Mega Aerodactyl for S.

Again, I fully agree on Raikou.

On the Mega-Aero opinion, however, I have my doubts.

Its blazingly fast 150 Speed makes it so that the prehistoric beast can use an Adamant nature for maximum power while still outspeeding most prominent threats.

The only problem I have with this is the Mega-Evolving turn. While it isn't particularly bad off, still outspeeding +natured base 115s, it still loses out to some threats, namely alakazam, and some slower scarfers after it Mega-Evos. Probably not that big an issue.

Mega Aerodactyl can run a specially defensive Defog set with SR that not only pressurizes the opponent's hazard setters, but allows the beast to set up hazards to support its own team with as well.

This seems like a stretch. To be honest, I fail to see any fire type that is particularly dissuaded by mega-aerodactyl; Darm OHKOs with rock slide, Victini can sometimes OHKO with bolt strike if scarfed, Arcanine does decent damage with Wild Charge, or simply Will-O-Wisps to cripple, making Aero set up fodder, and Chandelure, if scarfed, can 2HKO mega Aero anyway and doesn't care. Rotom-H can burn on the switch or volt switch out, giving it momentum; finally, having been a major proponent of Support Mega-Scizor in early OU, I can attest that defensive pokemon generally don't like being megas; having to mega evolve to achieve decent bulk, as aero does, limits its usefulness before it is able to switch into anything and start getting off defogs, and by the time it does switch in, it will generally have suffered rock damage already. Additionally, this support set has trouble clearing hazards against quite a few users; Forretress and Bronzong, for instance, do quite a number with their STAB gyro balls. Swampert runs scald, which chances the burn, again making aero set up fodder, and the nidos can either hit with supereffective ice beam or thunderbolt, while also being able to do quite a bit of damage with Earth Power on a predicted roost. Jirachi can paralyze or just Iron Head on the switch. Mew can Wisp, and Aggron-Mega's going to laugh from any uninvested physical hit, and OHKO back. Assuming Aero runs Defog, Stealth Rock, and Roost, he only has one attack for coverage; the most common option, Stone Edge, fails to damage any of these hazard setters in notable ways. Metagross, of course, can OHKO easily with Meteor Mash, while no attack can OHKO back. While I haven't calced it, I feel fairly confident that Galvantula can at least 2HKO with thunder, forcing Mega-Aero to go for a roost its first turn after coming in, and risking a 30% of paralysis- twice. Frankly, Mega-Aero is better off running its standard offensive set in almost any situation.

Honestly I see this as a set to specifically counter one pokemon- roserade- and very little else. Any only after the sleep clause has been activated.

Mega Aerodactyl can run Crunch to get past Slowbro.

All right, after scouring your post, you really didn't mention Mega-Aero's biggest flaw; this is the closest you've come.

Mega-Aero, frankly, doesn't like defensive teams. He can't do a whole lot against dedicated stall. Mons like Quagsire, Swampert, Duoblade, Cobalion, and Hippowdon might not be able to consistently switch into Mega-Aero by themselves throughout the match, getting worn down over time (although some, like phys defensive Hippo, can do it fairly well); however, when M-Aero is facing more than one physical wall on a team, it's forced to rely on prediction to impact the match in any way- and generally, you don't want to have to rely on prediction, especially if you're trying to ladder into the higher tiers; reliance on prediction is usually a sign that you've lost control of the match; I shouldn't need to explain why being forced into prediction wars to win is not a good thing.

For this reason, Mega-Aero has a tough time fitting into all team archetypes.

One additional flaw is that Mega-Aero is possibly the most status weak Pokemon in all of UU (okay, maybe that's a stretch, but the point stands)- Aero is literally crippled by every status in the tier; Burn, Paralysis, and Sleep all incapitate him (and toxic, but to a lesser extent; no more than other offensive mons), forcing him to also need the support of a cleric and/or status absorber.

All in all, Aerodactyl-Mega is a quite good pokemon, capable of making a huge difference against many teams, yet it still does require certain amounts of team support which simply aren't offset by its boons. Mega Aerodactyl should stay A+ rank.

 

[pokemonisfun]

You didn't even bother mentioning the following: if raikou does want to run aura sphere, which allows it to do some amount of damage to special walls like Snorlax or Umbreon, it must run a rash nature, both compromising its special bulk as well as allowing other scarfers, like Ape or Mienshao, to easily outspeed and take it out; I fully agree on Raikou --> B-



Again, I fully agree on Raikou.

On the Mega-Aero opinion, however, I have my doubts.

The only problem I have with this is the Mega-Evolving turn. While it isn't particularly bad off, still outspeeding +natured base 115s, it still loses out to some threats, namely alakazam, and some slower scarfers after it Mega-Evos. Probably not that big an issue.


This seems like a stretch. To be honest, I fail to see any fire type that is particularly dissuaded by mega-aerodactyl; Darm OHKOs with rock slide, Victini can sometimes OHKO with bolt strike if scarfed, Arcanine does decent damage with Wild Charge, or simply Will-O-Wisps to cripple, making Aero set up fodder, and Chandelure, if scarfed, can 2HKO mega Aero anyway and doesn't care. Rotom-H can burn on the switch or volt switch out, giving it momentum; finally, having been a major proponent of Support Mega-Scizor in early OU, I can attest that defensive pokemon generally don't like being megas; having to mega evolve to achieve decent bulk, as aero does, limits its usefulness before it is able to switch into anything and start getting off defogs, and by the time it does switch in, it will generally have suffered rock damage already. Additionally, this support set has trouble clearing hazards against quite a few users; Forretress and Bronzong, for instance, do quite a number with their STAB gyro balls. Swampert runs scald, which chances the burn, again making aero set up fodder, and the nidos can either hit with supereffective ice beam or thunderbolt, while also being able to do quite a bit of damage with Earth Power on a predicted roost. Jirachi can paralyze or just Iron Head on the switch. Mew can Wisp, and Aggron-Mega's going to laugh from any uninvested physical hit, and OHKO back. Assuming Aero runs Defog, Stealth Rock, and Roost, he only has one attack for coverage; the most common option, Stone Edge, fails to damage any of these hazard setters in notable ways. Metagross, of course, can OHKO easily with Meteor Mash, while no attack can OHKO back. While I haven't calced it, I feel fairly confident that Galvantula can at least 2HKO with thunder, forcing Mega-Aero to go for a roost its first turn after coming in, and risking a 30% of paralysis- twice. Frankly, Mega-Aero is better off running its standard offensive set in almost any situation.

Honestly I see this as a set to specifically counter one pokemon- roserade- and very little else. Any only after the sleep clause has been activated.


All right, after scouring your post, you really didn't mention Mega-Aero's biggest flaw; this is the closest you've come.

Mega-Aero, frankly, doesn't like defensive teams. He can't do a whole lot against dedicated stall. Mons like Quagsire, Swampert, Duoblade, Cobalion, and Hippowdon might not be able to consistently switch into Mega-Aero by themselves throughout the match, getting worn down over time (although some, like phys defensive Hippo, can do it fairly well); however, when M-Aero is facing more than one physical wall on a team, it's forced to rely on prediction to impact the match in any way- and generally, you don't want to have to rely on prediction, especially if you're trying to ladder into the higher tiers; reliance on prediction is usually a sign that you've lost control of the match; I shouldn't need to explain why being forced into prediction wars to win is not a good thing.

For this reason, Mega-Aero has a tough time fitting into all team archetypes.

One additional flaw is that Mega-Aero is possibly the most status weak Pokemon in all of UU (okay, maybe that's a stretch, but the point stands)- Aero is literally crippled by every status in the tier; Burn, Paralysis, and Sleep all incapitate him (and toxic, but to a lesser extent; no more than other offensive mons), forcing him to also need the support of a cleric and/or status absorber.

All in all, Aerodactyl-Mega is a quite good pokemon, capable of making a huge difference against many teams, yet it still does require certain amounts of team support which simply aren't offset by its boons. Mega Aerodactyl should stay A+ rank.

Mega-Aero is actually very good at checking all the fire types in the tier except arguably scarf-rotom (which doesn't actually OHKO with thunderbolt) because he can outspeed and OHKO all of them and the only way the Fire types can hurt Aero significantly is by locking themselves into a very weak unstabbed move. Also with Taunt and Roost Mega Aero can defeat the vast majority of walls in UU one on one so it has a pretty good match up against stall actually And quagsire is ou at the moment.

 

[Water Drone]

Nominating Articuno from B- --> C/C-

Where to start. This things is very bad. 4x weak to Stealth Rocks, terrible coverage and is absolutely destroyed by any Fire or Steel type. A pretty unimpressive Ice beam which doesnt really hit much. An inaccurate hurricane. Heck as a flying type it cant even really handle Fighting types. Infernape, Lucario, even Heracross and Mienshao have Stone Edge. I think its incredibly underwhelming and should drop out of the B range.

 

[KM]

Nominating Articuno from B- --> C/C-

Where to start. This things is very bad. 4x weak to Stealth Rocks, terrible coverage and is absolutely destroyed by any Fire or Steel type. A pretty unimpressive Ice beam which doesnt really hit much. An inaccurate hurricane. Heck as a flying type it cant even really handle Fighting types. Infernape, Lucario, even Heracross and Mienshao have Stone Edge. I think its incredibly underwhelming and should drop out of the B range.

i don't think you understand the point of using articuno

It's a special wall, not an attacker of any kind. I agree it's probably not a solid B rank, but your justification is sort of irrelevant.