Ludicolo [QC: 0/3]

[skies]

QC: / /
QC Reject: Fireburn / /
GP: /
Awaiting QC input on:
- An offensive set​

Overview
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• Rain Dish gives it a reliable means of recovery in Rain.
• Unique typing with great resistances.
• Counters Kyogre well (252+ Specs Thunder has ~8% chance to 2HKO it after SR)
• Respectable Special Defense.

• Rain nerf makes Ludicolo's effectiveness drop.

• Receives stiff competition from Palkia.

• Flying-types like Yveltal and Ho-Oh give it a rough time.

• Very susceptible to entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes.

• Bad Defense means coming on Landorus-T or Groudon hurts, even though it's resisted.

SubSeed
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name: SubSeed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Protect
move 4: Scald
ability: Rain Dish
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

• Leech Seed and Rain Dish combined with Leftovers provides constant recovery.
• Substitute aids in stalling while protecting Ludicolo from Toxic.
• Protect provides an extra turn of Rain Dish / Leech Seed recovery.
• Scald is boosted by Rain and has a high chance of Burn, enhancing Ludicolo's physical bulk.
• Giga Drain provides even more recovery and is also a STAB move, but it makes Ludicolo completely walked on by Mega Gengar.

Set Details
========

• The current EVs give Ludicolo the highest special bulk possible.
• Leftovers is the item of choice to aid in passive recovery.
• Rain Dish is used so that Ludicolo regains gradual health when Rain is in effect, and it's not very uncommon with Kyogre's popularity.

Usage Tips
========

• Ludicolo is a fantastic Kyogre counter because it can abuse the rain it summons and i only 3HKOed by Choice Specs Thunder (Kyogre's most powerful attack against Ludicolo)
• Try to avoid Toxic, if possible, as it hampers with Ludicolo's lifespan.
• If the opponent is Choice-locked and Ludicolo has already set a Leech Seed, using Protect to stall for damage is a good option. However, set up sweepers like Arceus may take advantage of this, so using Scald or outright switching is best to prevent Ludicolo from being completely set up on.
• Rain is usually the best to use Ludicolo in, as this greatly extends its lifespan.
• Some Grass-types can be stalled out and beaten like Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn (Scald burn), however, stay out of Shaymin-S's way because of its powerful Flying-type STAB moves.

Team Options
========

• Kyogre is an optimal partner because it summons Rain for Ludicolo to abuse with.
• Physically Defensive Xerneas is a cool partner because it can take on Yveltal and it provides cleric support, it also appreciates the walling of Kyogre.
• This set often forces switches, thus, hazards are great. Landorus-T in particular makes a good partner because of its ability to set Stealth Rock and because it can Intimidate physical threats such as Zekrom.
• Arceus-Rock beats Flying-types like Ho-oh and Mega Kangaskhan.
• Substitute Xerneas can setup all over Ludicolo, making dedicated checks like Klefki and Scizor good partners.

Other Options
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• Ice Beam nets nice coverage and hits Grass-types.
• Focus Blast gets cool coverage, hitting Dialga and Arceus.
• Grass Knot is a viable option because Ubers is a very heavy metagame.
• Finally, Toxic is an option to make Ludicolo even better at stalling, but if Toxic is chosen then Ludicolo is very prone to being Taunted or beaten by Mega Gengar.

Checks and Counters
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• Shadow Tag: Mega Gengar in particular can Taunt it, beat it with Sludge Bomb (or greatly weaken it). Gothitelle can lock it into an unfavorable move and set up on it as well.
• Toxic: Toxic reduces Ludicolo's lifespan very quickly.
• Flying-types: Yveltal, Arceus-Flying, Ho-Oh, and Shaymin-Sky all have strong STAB moves to eliminate Ludicolo.
• Rain Cancellation: Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Groudon all cancel Rain and summon their own weathers, however, they must be wary of being burned by Scald.
• Powerful Special Attackers: Xerneas, Kyurem-W, and Mewtwo can all overwhelm Ludicolo.

 

[skies]

I believe this is ready to be QC checked.

 

[Fireburn]

Scald absolutely needs to be the only option in Move 4 so Gengar doesn't come in for free.

Will comment more later.

 

[PISTOLERO]

Scald absolutely needs to be the only option in Move 4 so Gengar doesn't come in for free.

Will comment more later.

out of curiosity, is Shed Shell a viable option on this thing? I think so, the last time I used Ludicolo I tried it and i found that Leech Seed + Protect + Rain Dish actually does the HP restoring trick pretty nicely, and times when Ludicolo are in tend to be when it's raining so it's almost guaranteed Rain Dish, + Gengar doesn't like taking rain boosted Scalds anyway, especially if it gets burned, as you can then protect and dick around with it from there (does it Taunt as you Scald, Destiny Bond as you Leech Seed, etc?)

 

[Sweep]

Overview

Don't break your skeleton into a pros and cons section, just merge them. Also remove all mentions of Swift Swim, as Ludicolo is probably the worst of the "Big 4" (Kingdra/Omastar/Kabutops/Ludicolo) in a metagame very hostile to weather sweepers. I will vehemently oppose even an OO mention for a Swift Swim set since Ludicolo wouldn't be particularly good in this bulky metagame even with permanent rain due to its lack of power. Mention Ludicolo's terrible physical bulk, which prevents it from coming in effectively on Lando-T / Groudon (especially since Ludi underspeeds).

SubSeed

Well done, nothing to add here.

Usage Tips

Remove the point on how Ludicolo should avoid Grass types imo. It easily walls and beats Grass Arceus and can get a clutch burn on Ferrothorn in dire situations. It should avoid Shaymin since Shaymin is part-Flying, not because it is immune to Leech Seed. Also iron out your points on when to use Protect and when not to: for example, Choiced users that are seeded are safe to Protect on, but something like Swords Dance Arceus should be Scalded or outright switch out of. Right now it isn't clear to the reader when it is appropriate for Ludi to use Protect.

Team Options

Landorus-T is not a great answer for EKiller by any means. It can deal with some physical threats that threaten Ludicolo such as Zekrom and Mega Blaziken, though. I'd mention Arceus-Rock, due to its ability to deal with birds and Kangaskhan.

Other Options

Remove Hydro Pump, Fake Out, and Swift Swim mentions. Focus Blast is a good mention though, even though it'll do only chip damage to Dialga/Ferrothorn/friends!

Checks & Counters

Move Mega Gengar up to #1. Gothitelle will also slowly eat Ludicolo alive and proceed to threaten Ludi's entire team should you lack a Dark type, so mention it somewhere. Remove "Grass-types," since you already mentioned Shaymin-S. You mention Tyranitar twice, and really neither TTar nor Hippowdon want to switch into a Scald anyway and risk getting crippled...rain will run out in this generation anyway.

I'll test this a bit and offer a final verdict. I'm not blown away by it this at a glance with Xerneas/Yveltal/Mega Gengar/lack of permanent rain providing it new obstacles this generation. I'll definitely try it though and it does look like fun.

 

[skies]

Sweep
Implemented. Also, do you want me to remove 'Rain Cancellation'?

 

[SylveonIsCute]

Well, rain cancellation isn't that bad for Ludicolo due to the weather nerf, it is annoying and tedious at best, but does not necessarily check or counter Ludicolo, and all the weather setters are susceptible to scald like you mentioned.

I say remove it.

By the way don't all Mega Gengar sets run sludge wave over sludge bomb? Just saying.

You could also mention that Ludicolo is weak to U-turners such as Genesect and Scizor, as not only does Ludicolo take super-effective damage but also escapes the grasp of leech seed. Mega Scizor and Genesect provide a guaranteed OHKO with u-turn (unless they get burned with scald obviously). Sometimes Genesect runs bug buzz that goes though substitutes.

 

[skies]

Well, rain cancellation isn't that bad for Ludicolo due to the weather nerf, it is annoying and tedious at best, but does not necessarily check or counter Ludicolo, and all the weather setters are susceptible to scald like you mentioned.

While they are susceptible you have to remember that it cuts down it in some way. Sun: weakens Scald a lot and takes away Rain Dish. Sand: Removes Leftovers recovery, along with Rain Dish. The thing about Scald is that it is not Will-O-Wisp, it is supposed to pressure the opponent into being scared, it's not a guaranteed burn. It's amazing, don't get me wrong, but it still does only have a 30% chance. They do hinder it and I'm unsure if they should move off or to the last spot, I'm fine with either. But I do think they're soft checks.

By the way don't all Mega Gengar sets run sludge wave over sludge bomb? Just saying.

Yeah but it's not like it matters lol. I'll change it to Posion-Type STAB moves I guess.

You could also mention that Ludicolo is weak to U-turners such as Genesect and Scizor, as not only does Ludicolo take super-effective damage but also escapes the grasp of leech seed. Mega Scizor and Genesect provide a guaranteed OHKO with u-turn (unless they get burned with scald obviously). Sometimes Genesect runs bug buzz that goes though substitutes.

I'm ok w/ adding U-turn.

 

[Fireburn]

Rain nerf has made Ludicolo a lot worse than it used to be and it's extremely easily trapped/taken advantage of by too many things. It'll probably be worth another look depending on what happens with ORAS/STag but right now I don't believe it's viable.

QC Rejected 1/3

 

[Hack]

qc reject 2/3

lol i've been forgetting about this too many times but why do i wanna use this? definitely not a mon i'd consider for a serious team, it's status prone, gengar weak and doesn't bring any big supportative traits to the table.

 

[Sweep]

qc rejected 3/3, sorry. Nothing wrong with the analysis by any means but this mon struggles hard in this metagame.