XY UU Viability Ranking Thread

[Petrico94]

The only things Bronzong can do better than Jirachi are trick room with its lower speed and it has levitate. Unless someone can find some good moves it knows that Jirachi doesn't it's probably going to be C/C-.
The only stats it has better than Jirachis 100 are defense and even those don't help it with lower HP

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 540-636 (158.3 - 186.5%)
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 474-560 (172.3 - 203.6%)

 

[Sleepless]

- Well, I'm a bit too late for croak but it being top CroCune answers, it also scares Fairies and use them as set-up bait and bar Ice Beam, resists all of M-Blastoise's moves. Drain Punch is divine at healing itself. Being a physical set-up sweeper, it fears no burns from straying scalds and in fact can use the vast water types plaguing the tier, like the increasingly common Alomomola, as set-up fodders which is amazing! While relying on shaky priority in non STAB Sucker Punch and having competition from Luke, I still think it deserves B+ but B, as it is, won't be too bad.

Also, now that we are stepping below the A rank zone, maybe we should discuss three Pokemon at a time ?

 

[Kingpoleon]

Bronzong is just a terrible overall Pokémon. It has a little bit more viability than Wartortle in UU currently. The defensive stats mean nothing when you have 3(!) weaknesses, no ability to give damage back, and has no great utility move. It can ResTalk to keep from dying, but adds nothing to the team. C Rank.

Vivillon.... Generic bug type. Hurricane and Sleep Powder have some utility, but with these bad defenses, you're lucky to live a neutral hit. It has slightly more attacking ability than Bronzong, and better speed, but is still barely better. C+ Rank.

 

[dingbat]

Vivillon should drop to C+ rank, due to all the unfavorable factors going for it. For one thing, the drops really hurt the crap out of Vivillon, as Blissey literally eats up all the shit Vivillon throws at it, Luke can hit it real hard with its [physical] priority moves, and Zam/ScarfApe are capable revenge killers. In addition, the surging of the checks to these drops, ESPECIALLY Mega-Aerodactyl, has also hampered Vivillon's ability to set up in the first place and Stealth Rocks are pretty much everywhere in this metagame, something that just shreds away at Vivillon's life. Overall, Vivillon just needs too much threat/spin support to be near the A ranks, or even the B ranks.

Bronzong should drop to C- rank. It's hopelessly outclassed by Jirachi in every role not called Trick Room setting, and even on Trick Room teams, which certainly aren't dominant in this current metagame, it faces a lot of competition for a teamslot as even then there are some much better options such as Reuniclus and Aromatisse, and if you're one real ass madafaka (*ahem* Kitten), even Victini is an impressive TR setter. Overall, Bronzong is just bad in this metagame; it's a liability most of the time, so you might as well just not use this in the first place.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Starmine should be S rank. It's speed and SpAtk can kill big threats like Infernape and Slowbro with relative ease. He can run a life orb set with recover to make him a big threat. The only counter to Patrick Star is probably in the ditches of the C rack, aka: Sceptile and Jolteon, since they outspeed and Leaf Blade or thunderbolt it to death.

About Toxicroak, shove it to S rank as well. He has a extensive movepool and good mixed offensive stats, you know he means to sweep. And for those psychic types visiting, sucker punch says "HELLO"!

this... isnt a troll right

slowbro will just switch out at the sight of starmie which he doesnt really give a shit about because regen means he rrturns healthier and nape outruns and maims with u turn or thunderpunch anw

toxicroak sucks outside of beating water types, does shit to stuff like mega aero and slowbro lel

 

[Mahmudkipz]

- Well, I'm a bit too late for croak but it being top CroCune answers, it also scares Fairies and use them as set-up bait and bar Ice Beam, resists all of M-Blastoise's moves. Drain Punch is divine at healing itself. Being a physical set-up sweeper, it fears no burns from straying scalds and in fact can use the vast water types plaguing the tier, like the increasingly common Alomomola, as set-up fodders which is amazing! While relying on shaky priority in non STAB Sucker Punch and having competition from Luke, I still think it deserves B+ but B, as it is, won't be too bad.

Also, now that we are stepping below the A rank zone, maybe we should discuss three Pokemon at a time ?

Aww darn, I was about to say something about Croaker too but I missed the time frame ;-;

Besides what Sleepless says, I think one of the best thing about Toxicroak now is its synergy with Hydreigon - all the while being a rather solid water type/rain check in the tier (to differ from Luke). It essentially beats/sets up on everything that walls Hydreigon (Florges, Umbreon, Blissey etc., and Hydreigon can just U-turn into Toxicroak), has Drain Punch/Dry Skin for survivability and Sucker Punch for priority against faster targets while Hydreigon can pivot into the Psychic/Ground type attacks aimed at Croaker and threaten something out with Draco. Despite its pitiful 106 attack, it still hits rather hard with a Life Orb boosted Gunk Shot.

 

[mertyville]

Bronzong should be ranked below Uxie
You might be wondering, why? Simple, Uxie can do anything that Bronzong can do but better. Bronzong's resistances come barely in handy and in a tier were Fire Types and Dark Moves are everywhere, I can't see it even being viable as a trick room or screen setter.
Uxie on the other hand, while it has less resistance, its bulk comes handy most at the time and can at least do one of its jobs. It is faster and has even access to moves like U-Turn and Thunderwave.
Only offensively, Bronzong might have the upper hand (who would want to use Calm Mind Uxie anyways), however, offensive bulky Bronzong is outclassed by Jirachi and Metagross.

 

[Skankovich]

I don't really see how bronzong is outclassed as a trick room setter at all, you cant compare it to the likes of reuniclus as its not meant to take an offensive role, its meant to set tr, blow up and get something that nukes stuff in there. Aromatisse you can compare it to, but aroma has to dry switch into sweepers and can't lay rocks.

Otherwise its pretty meh, I used it when we were testing staraptor to set screens and it was ok. It could nuke some stuff with gyro ball which scares off a lot of the typically fast taunters like Crobat and Aerodactyl, but yeah, it's nothing amazing. C is good for it.

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 257-304 (35.9 - 42.5%) -- 94% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Starmie is not S rank

252 SpA Life Orb Analytic Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 333-394 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You're unlikely to 2hko without SR and spikes, but blissey doesn't really like switching in.

 

[Limitless]

Vivillon is moving down to C+ rank, while Bronzong is moving down to C rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Chandelure and Chesnaught.

 

[KM]

Real quick before we move on to the next two...

Skankovich it's arguable that carbink outclasses Bronzong as a dedicated Trick Room lead. They both are slow with Trick Room, Explosion, and Stealth Rock. Carbink trades a slightly more reliable stab in Moonblast for Gyro Ball's variable power, and its Explosion is weaker, but its typing is much more useful defensively. Most importantly its access to Sturdy means that it will always get TR off no matter what.

On to the new drops.

Chandelure B+ --> A- In many ways, Chandelure still faces the same challenges that kept it back earlier this gen from being the powerhouse it was last gen. These problems still remain, but the new drops made it far more viable. Infernape is probably the most important - the incredibly threatening NP Infernape (unless HP Ground, which only I run) is hard walled by Chandelures of all types, making it extremely useful defensively - especially as Chandelure has few switchins, so getting it in for free on a threat is worth double. Lucario is also worth mentioning, as Chandelure is impervious to its priority, so a scarf Chandelure can easily threaten out Lucario. Scarf Chandelure actually beats Alakazam in all scenarios as well - Sash Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO it. Perhaps most importantly, Blissey is the perfect set-up bait for Chandelure's SubCM set, which takes nothing from Seismic Toss and can dodge status with Substitute. Chandelure certainly hasn't returned to its former glory, but the new drops ratcheted up its viability significantly.

Chesnaught B+ --> B Chesnaught, on the other hand, isn't really fit for this meta. With all the boosting sweepers around, it becomes increasingly easier to punish stray Spiky Shields - and Chesnaught finds fewer opportunities to come in. Spikestacking really isn't that desirable at the minute, and while it's a decent switch-in to blissey it's not really offensively threatening enough to dissuade defoggers from just switching straight into it and removing all of its work.

 

[Skankovich]

Oh sure, I can see bronzong has competition from things like carbink, but saying stuff like Victini somehow outclassses it as a dedicated tr setter is silly.

But yeah anyway Chandelure loves this meta because every drop except Goodra (lol goodra) is checked or scared by it, or serves as setup bait. Furthermore, mons like Snorlax and Umbreon that used to wall chandelure and threaten back with Crunch or Foul Play have dropped in viability due to the drops, making the tier even cosier for chandy. I think it fits well in A or A-

 

[jamashawalker]

Chesnaught- B+ -->B. in past meta's chesnaught's role was to come in on powerful attackers and soak up knock off spamming. This is not the case anymore. All of UU's new offense powerhouses can now easily get passed chesnaught and even use him as a set up fodder. Spike stacking is still prevelant in this metagame but as kitten milk pointed out, he welcomes alot of defog users with very little to threaten them back. But it's not all bad for chesnaught. He still has many switch in opportunities to set up spikes, annoy with leech seed and primary healing with synthesis. two random things about chesnaught too, is that M-absol is afraid to switch in on it and it is an absolute %100 counter to Specs Lucario lol

 

[Limitless]

Real quick before we move on to the next two...

Skankovich it's arguable that carbink outclasses Bronzong as a dedicated Trick Room lead. They both are slow with Trick Room, Explosion, and Stealth Rock. Carbink trades a slightly more reliable stab in Moonblast for Gyro Ball's variable power, and its Explosion is weaker, but its typing is much more useful defensively. Most importantly its access to Sturdy means that it will always get TR off no matter what.

On to the new drops.

Chandelure B+ --> A- In many ways, Chandelure still faces the same challenges that kept it back earlier this gen from being the powerhouse it was last gen. These problems still remain, but the new drops made it far more viable. Infernape is probably the most important - the incredibly threatening NP Infernape (unless HP Ground, which only I run) is hard walled by Chandelures of all types, making it extremely useful defensively - especially as Chandelure has few switchins, so getting it in for free on a threat is worth double. Lucario is also worth mentioning, as Chandelure is impervious to its priority, so a scarf Chandelure can easily threaten out Lucario. Scarf Chandelure actually beats Alakazam in all scenarios as well - Sash Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO it. Perhaps most importantly, Blissey is the perfect set-up bait for Chandelure's SubCM set, which takes nothing from Seismic Toss and can dodge status with Substitute. Chandelure certainly hasn't returned to its former glory, but the new drops ratcheted up its viability significantly.

Chesnaught B+ --> B Chesnaught, on the other hand, isn't really fit for this meta. With all the boosting sweepers around, it becomes increasingly easier to punish stray Spiky Shields - and Chesnaught finds fewer opportunities to come in. Spikestacking really isn't that desirable at the minute, and while it's a decent switch-in to blissey it's not really offensively threatening enough to dissuade defoggers from just switching straight into it and removing all of its work.

Good.

Chandelure is moving up to A- rank, while Chesnaught is moving down to B- rank. The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Cobalion and Ditto. And just as a pre-warning, Cobalion is actually a good SR pivot. Don't be too harsh on it.

 

[KM]

I've already discussed with you my thoughts on Cobal, but I'll summarize them here.

Cobalion B+ --> B+ --> B+ (very important that it's moved twice!!) - Although the SD Cobal set is now pretty much outclassed by Lucario, the SR pivot set is still very underrated. Access to Volt Switch and SR is great combined with Cobalion's impressive defensive typing, and he has a lot of options at his disposal - strong dual stab, Taunt, and more. Great for offensive teams who want a SR setter that isn't a complete momentum suck. He's also a great response to Knock Off which is always good to have. He's great for the bulky momentum meta we're in right now, and has great matchups against the drops. Blissey is duh, he is a great offensive counter to Lucario, and he can essentially dispose of sash zam by means of a "slow" volt switch and a scarfer.

I have no experience using Ditto but I hear it has a great Shell Smash set 1!



(jokes)

No but seriously, I'm not really sure how good Ditto is in the current meta. If we assume that Haxorus is leaving (or at the very least don't account for it at the minute), I'm not really sure it's all that good. My instinct is to send it down to B- to show that it's still a viable niche on certain teams, but it's often just better to have a sixth member with good synergy than trusting to random chance that your opponent will have something useful to copy.

 

[dingbat]

Oh sure, I can see bronzong has competition from things like carbink, but saying stuff like Victini somehow outclassses it as a dedicated tr setter is silly.

Either I worded my post badly or you may have misinterpreted my post about Bronzong; I never intended to make the claim that Bronzong was outclassed by other Trick Room setter, but rather there being better options out there. I dunno why I mentioned Victini though, that might've been me just... being dingbat; it happens sometimes. Anyways...

Ditto should drop to C+/B- rank. Although it can be a really great win-con especially against more offensively-based teams, there's simply not as much opportunities for Ditto to play its revenge killing/cleaning role in this current metagame as opposed to the metagame before the June shifts, as there are many more teams, especially on the higher ladder, that are running some defensive core that potentially put a complete stop to Ditto's capabilities. Overall, Ditto's effectiveness is just way too situational in this current metagame to be anywhere near B+ rank atm.

 

[Sage]

Cobalion B+-->B+
This is the perfect place for a very anti-meta pokemon. Cobalion has access to an awesome utility set. It has lots of switch in oppurtunities on common pink cores with blissey and florges, umbreon can help it nab a justified boost. It will set up stealth rock on their switch out, and then volt switch gaining you some valuable momentum. His fantastic 108 speed means i run max speed on utility since his resistances to dark and bug help with knock off and u-turn spam, which makes up for uninvested bulk, outspeeding mienshao that aren't scarfed is great. Even speed tying with a mixnape can save you the game. Another great set is Calm Mind or Sub Calm Mind. This is an awesome lure for a common switch in to Cobalion, Slowbro, and can sweep unprepared teams. His Swords Dance set has been mostly outclassed as Kitten Milk said by Lucario, who has stronger offenses and Extremespeed, but it is still viable. Problems with Cobalion are its subpar special bulk that means even resisted hits do a good number on it. This limits what would have been more switch-in oppurtunites if its defenses had been balanced. Also it has no recovery unlike other utility SR users like mew. Cobalion is highly underrated and should not be udnerestimated.

 

[Jacks0n]

I really think hydriegon should move back up to S. Yes it has checks that dropped like luc and nape but blissey being used over Florges really makes up for it. It's great power, good stabs, awesome defensive typing backed up by bulk make it a definant S rank Pokemon. It's LO wallbreaker set is amazing, it's scarf set is great and it's actually really over centralising, it belongs with UU powerhouses such as nape IMO.

 

[Limitless]

Ditto is moving down to C rank, while Cobalion is staying at B+ rank. Victini and Hydreigon are moving up to S rank, while Infernape is moving down to A+ rank.

The next two Pokemon up for discussion are Donphan and Doublade.

 

[Sage]

Donphan B+-->A-
I thought he would be as bad as he was in gen 5 OU, but i was pleasantly suprised. With only max HP, he can come in on a lot of physical threats like Cobalion(watch out for CM), Krookodile, and Flygon, while being able to get his spin off and threaten ghost types with Knock off coming off base 120 atk. I do think B+ is a little bit too low for him. He is imo the second best spinner in the tier, obviously the first being mega blastoise. And there is enough to warrant using him on a team over blastoise like Knock off, priority(it can still revenge low HP fast threats even if its weak), and different type synergy unlike say Starmie, who is in B+ right now, and I think Donphan deserves a higher ranking then it. Some of Donphans problems are that it is forced by most Special Attackers, and is rather slow, meaning it must take a hit or 2 to get its spin off. I think it can overcome these weakness due to its bulk and good movepool.

Doublade I haven't used enough to put my 2 cents in but I've heard players lsay its trash in practice. IDK tho

EDIT: I also think Nidoqueen should rise to A- but i have to go work out now, more on that later

 

[canasian]

I think Donphan is worthwhile enough to keep in B+ but I can't see ranking it above Starmie. Knock Off is definitely a boon for it but it just barely beats the most common spinblocker, Sableye, one-on-one (Sableye wins if it switches in on anything besides Earthquake, and with a little luck on the Sableye user's end it will survive 2 low-roll earthquakes after the burn), and once Sableye has crippled it anything faster will put too much pressure on it to get the spin off (especially special attackers which are plentiful).

 

[Sage]

I think Donphan is worthwhile enough to keep in B+ but I can't see ranking it above Starmie. Knock Off is definitely a boon for it but it just barely beats the most common spinblocker, Sableye, one-on-one (Sableye wins if it switches in on anything besides Earthquake, and with a little luck on the Sableye user's end it will survive 2 low-roll earthquakes after the burn), and once Sableye has crippled it anything faster will put too much pressure on it to get the spin off (especially special attackers which are plentiful).

I agree Donphan can't really play around sable unless youget some good EQ rolls, but the most common ghost type in UU is chandelure by Usage, who can't switch in at all. Starmie was hurt by stuff like blissey and doesn't have nearly as many switch ins as donphan thanks to not having an immunity and worse bulk. I won't be mad if Donphan doesn't move up but I think it has the power to do so. Also Nidoqueen should be in A-, for being one of the best users of toxic spikes. Blissey really hurt Nidoking's impact as a wallbreaker, but Nidoqueen can setup hazards in its face, and a lot of defoggers don't like switching in on Nido except for SpD mew. Crobat, Megadactyl, and Empoleon are all hurt by by common offensive moves on queen.

 

[DaKakz]

Donphan is trash, it's seriously pretty bad. The only time I would ever even consider to use it over hippo is if I needed a bulky ground and was desperately hazards weak. It's bulk is little comparad to hippo, it has a worse ability as well as having no recovery, no way should it be even near the high b ranks, this might be brutal but I think Donphan should be B- or C+.

Never used Doublade so idk where it should go.

Except that Donphan is not that comparable to Hippo, they are both bulky ground types who can put Stealth Rocks on the field and that's about it.
Donphan is a rapid spinner who can easily destroy spinblockers (Knock Off for ghosts and Play Rough for Sableye)

The AV set with 3 moves + rapid spin alone should put it above the C Ranks, it is simply amazing for bulky offense teams as its EQ hits really hard, Ice shard can be used for priority and to stop weakened foes while Knock Off and Play Rough as I mentioned before serve to destroy spinblockers.

I know hating Donphan is the cool thing to do in Smogon cause of bandwagoning on the mods's opinions who hate its guts for some reason but dropping it to the B- or the C ranks is just insane.

 

[Sage]

Except that Donphan is not that comparable to Hippo, they are both bulky ground types who can put Stealth Rocks on the field and that's about it.
Donphan is a rapid spinner who can easily destroy spinblockers (Knock Off for ghosts and Play Rough for Sableye)

The AV set with 3 moves + rapid spin alone should put it above the C Ranks, it is simply amazing for bulky offense teams as its EQ hits really hard, Ice shard can be used for priority and to stop weakened foes while Knock Off and Play Rough as I mentioned before serve to destroy spinblockers.

I know hating Donphan is the cool thing to do in Smogon cause of bandwagoning on the mods's opinions who hate its guts for some reason but dropping it to the B- or the C ranks is just insane.

I forgot about the AV spin set which is awesome, kudos DaKakz

 

[Patrick1088]

I thi k tbat donphan stay--> B+

My reasoning is that it occupies aniche of being a hazard setter, rapid spinner and tanky mon. Forretress does this better since it is immune to t spikes which really hampers a spinner and donphan lacks natural cure like starmie. But, with that being said, it is one of the more powerful spinners who have great coverage in EdgeQuake, knock off and ice shard. It can run assvest to very bulky and isnt setup bait for subcm chandy like forretress is.lack of recovery hurts, but empoleon doesnt have roost or any other form of recovery.

Doublade is tough but i think ---> B

It occupies such a small niche of being a slower booster with good resists and immunities with good bulk with eviolite. Knock off ruins it completely, but it has a niche of beating sash zam 1v1 between shadow claw/iron head or gyro ball followed by shadow sneak. I woukd say its very similar to toxicroak who as priority, but can be easily beaten. Its slowness and typing reminds me of escavalier who only needs its main stabs and threatens out the pink core.

 

[Sleepless]

Also Nidoqueen should be in A-...

I agree, Tspikes are very good in the current meta and Nidoqueen hits really hard. She is also a great SR setter if the team is lacking one. Also, both she and king can run Superpower to break through Blissey.

Donphan - While it is marginally worse than Hippo, it's job is not to heal itself and sponge physical hits but to spin. That is all and it's doing it's job quite well. I wouldn't rank it in the A zone but not lower than B zone also.