Rotations – Round and Round it goes, where it stops… Nobody knows!

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Rotation Battles is a very complicated format. You have to outpredict your opponent’s outprediction of your prediction of your opponent’s prediction. Do you go for the safest decision or go for the gusto? Any wrong decision you make can be devastating, so be prepared to make mistakes. Hyper offense is probably the riskiest playstyle out there for this format. The ability to Rotate in any of three ‘mons allows for quick setup and quick benching while retaining stat-ups with minimal punishment.

For example you can have your lead starter be Sand Stream Tyranitar and Rotate to a Sand Rush Choice Band Excadrill on turn 1. Neat, huh? Until you realize your opponent can do the exact same thing.

Some of the most effective playstyles I’ve seen involve bulky sweeping. Often with a support ‘mon and two sweepers. Or a support sweeper and two other sweepers, such as Scarf Flinch abusing Togekiss with Mega Kangaskhan and Heatran. I often lead with Mega Mawile in the front, Scarf Garchomp, and CM Suicune.

A few quick tips:
1. Sky Drop is more useless than Splash. You can just Rotate and the ‘mon that has been lifted into the sky will take no damage and the opponent will not do anything for the following turn. That’s basically 1-2 free turns.
2. Only the ‘mon that is actively battling can have its ability activated.
3. If you see a possible intimidator (ex. Gyarados, Mawile) you might not want to lead with a physical attacker unless if you require its ability (ex. Sand Stream).
4. Choice items are really risky. Keep mind your Choice item ‘mon can only be switched out if it attacks, so if you get stuck in an unfavorable attack… You may be screwed for the rest of the battle.
5. Leech Seed can be absolutely brutal. Be weary of Rotating out Leech Seeded ‘mons because they will be still Seeded when they Rotate back in. Whimsicott is really obnoxious…

I used to see quite a bit of Trick Room in Season 2, but in Season 3 it seemed almost non-existent.

To give you an idea of what a Battle Spot Rotations team may look like here is my Season 3 Battle Spot top USA Rotations team (that I also used for Singles).

MTI's Season 3 Rotation team

Volcarona (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Flame Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Psychic

Designated Whimsicott and Ferrothron slayer. Bug Buzz will hit through subs. 51% chance of a burn if Mega Kangaskhan directly attacks it. Psychic is for fighting types that may be lured to Blissey.

Suicune @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
IVs: 30 SAtk
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Do I need to explain this? You Calm Mind, hope that Scald burns (51% chance after two attempts), and Ice Beam Dragons.

Landmaster (Garchomp) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

If a base 100 gets a +Spd boost I’m going to send Garchomp in to deal with it. How many Dragon Dancers can Garchomp OHKO? I know how risky it is, but it also lets me get the drop on Mega Lucario and any Lati I see.

Fat Egg Thing (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Aromatherapy
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

Cleric because hax happens and she can take most Special hits or even Physical hits with...

Cresselia @ Flame Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Psycho Shift
- Moonblast
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

(Still looking for a Calm Cressy.) Flame Orb Cresselia is something I have used since 4th Gen. With no Sleep Clause I can Psycho Shift Sleep Talk to my heart’s content. Moonblast and burning things can nerf Physical and Special attackers, which can really help with sweeping. Fun fact, Magic Bounce does not block Psycho Shift. I typically have her be my fourth ‘mon that I actually switch (not Rotate) to activate Flame Orb (and get Garchomp outta danger).

Fairy Poots (Mawile) (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Atk / 40 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Sweeps and hits ridiculously hard.

Thoughts? Questions? Comments? Wanna battle Rotation style?

 

[BlakDragon]

Such confidence, posting your team for the entire world to see.
But knowing is only half the battle.

I played a few games with a sandstorm team that primarily deployed Aron, Mega Tyranitar, Gyarados, and....something else, I forget.
This combination alone forced my opponents to bring ghost-types or stuff with sitrus berry, will-o-wisp, or something else
to deal with Aron. The team I made, did a good (enough) job of taking advantage of their anti-Aron lineup.

 

[Theorymon]

I haven't really experimented with Rotations enough yet, but the only type of team I've tried so far is one I really liked: Dual Screens. I've been using Klefki and Meowstic on these teams not both on the same team though), usually Klefki for Foul Play, and Meowstic for Yawn. When I used Dual Screens, it was pretty awesome! Thanks to being able to rotate stuff in, I was really able to make the best use of the screens time, and it made stuff like Garchomp and Mega Kangaskhan FAR more difficult to KO! Sadly, I got haxed pretty bad last season and got critted a lot, so just be warned, Dual Screens does have a problem with crits!

In general though, I feel like "field effects" such as Dual Screens, Trick Room, and Weather have MASSIVE potential in rotations, so I'm probably going to focus on trying out these kinds of teams this season. In particular, I'm really interested in trying out Mega Charizard Y, since thanks to Mega Evolution, it can screw over opposing weathers.

I think you should all give Rotations a try. It almost reminds me of Generation 4 Ubers in the "you never feel safe" kind of way. Of all the metagames I've played so far this gen, Battle Spot Rotations is probably the most heart pounding of them all!

 

[Whiskey Tango]

All right, take three on rotation discussion for the day (first found the wrong forum, then missed this thread):

This is my favorite format. I'm sitting at #2 in the U.S. right now, and somewhere in the top 60-ish worldwide (waiting for PGL to update). Though the format's so unpopular the ranks are much lower across the board. Also, the top 300 is absolutely dominated by Japanese players (save for the first-place U.S. player, who's #2 worldwide). We need to get some coordination going here and put some other countries on the map.

I'd love -- love -- to get a little discussion going on this. With no simulator, and the Battle Spot being less populated so that it's hard to get consistently matched with opponents on your level, it can be hard to suss out top strategies and threats here.

A few things I've noted:

1. Field effects including Tailwind, Trick Room, and screens, as noted above, are particularly potent, with three Pokemon being able to take advantage of them. In this way, you have dedicated "support" Pokemon something akin to doubles, though unlike doubles it's much safer to give them some sort of offense of their own. You don't want to have a Pokemon in rotation your opponent knows can't attack.

2. Hazards or any other tactics that rely on switching (ex. Regenerator ability) are more useless in this format than in any other, as you only take one Pokemon in reserve. Switching is usually (though not always) a sub-optimal turn.

3. Status is high-risk, high-return. All Pokemon are, essentially, trapped on the field. This means status effects are going to stick around, and you could conceivably end up crippling your opponent's entire team. It's also high-risk, as your opponent can rotate in an already afflicted Pokemon to absorb the status move and get a free turn. Play accordingly. Be really careful with Swagger, as landing it on the wrong Pokemon and letting them recover from it can leave you with a +2 physical attacker on the opponent's field for the rest of the match.

Recoverable statuses and psuedo-statuses like Sleep and Taunt present prediction problems for both sides as well. The Pokemon can only chip down its recovery timer while active, so you have to weigh whether or not you/they will rotate the Pokemon out, or keep it active to move toward recovery.

Having an Electric, Ground or Fire Pokemon on the field can effectively dissuade the opponent from using either Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp respectively.

4. The best move is often the one with the most neutral coverage. You have to weigh this one, and predictions become a huge factor in move-selection. Sometimes those big predictions are what win games (not unique to this format, but even more important in it). Early in the game or if your opponent has multiple viable options, though, the safest move is often what you know can hit most of the field hard; not just what relies on a certain Pokemon being on the receiving end.

Winning often comes down to whittling the field down to the point where one safe move can KO everything as well. You need to watch out for the same thing happening on your side. There's nothing worse than realizing you just took a hit on the only thing that wouldn't be OHKO'd by one of their faster remaining Pokemon.

5. Team-building can come down to to approaches: One is coming up with a sweeping strategy that can hit all/most of a field, and giving it the support/crippling Pokemon to make that happen. Some surprising things become viable this way. The other is around immunity and weakness synergy. If you have Pokemon that can form a triangle of immunities or resistances, you really minimize your opponent's optimal moves. Want to Thunderbolt that Azumarill? Think twice, because Therian Thundurus is also on the field.

6. Sweeping is easier with friends. This is part of what I was getting at above when I said some surprising things become viable. That frail Pokemon that can OHKO most things but only 2HKO others? Well, you'd never use it in singles (where it's going to eat it on the return hit), or doubles (where it'll get doubled up on), but here? Rotate in teammates to chip off a little damage across the field, and suddenly your 2HKO-er can OHKO everything in sight.

Big threats (at least that I've noticed/for my own team):

1. Talonflame. No surprise. As with other formats, the ability to just hit most things with hard priority is valuable here. The frail sweepers mentioned above can't do much until this is off the field.

2. Mega Mawile. Without Sucker Punch this thing wouldn't be on here. With it? No fun. You'd better pack something to take advantage of that turn. As mentioned above, as long as its teammates have chipped off a bit of damage across your team, that Sucker Punch can quickly become a priority OHKO against all your Pokemon, with Sheer Force requiring no setup and Dark having great neutral coverage.

3. Substitute Aegislash. This thing gets my number-one vote. All it has to do is correctly predict a support move on one turn to throw up Substitute, and it becomes incredibly hard to remove, tossing around powerful attacks at everything that rotates in. The most common multi-hit moves can't hit it for anywhere near enough damage. You also have the pressure of having to keep track of its King Shield turns, lest it rotate in on a contact move and cripple you. (Ways to get around this: Toss a prankster Swagger at it before it Substitutes, Infiltrator, clutch Taunt prediction, cry and forfeit. J/k, but it's going to take some major prediction skills.)

How to win?

Identify what needs to go for one of your Pokemon to sweep the field. Generally there will be one threat preventing you from doing this either through typing, priority, bulk, etc. Give yourself setup and cripple and/or chip away at the opponent's field with teammates until you have something that can reliably knock out the opponent's Pokemon with one move. Conversely, be aware of what your opponent needs to do to make the same thing happen, and keep your team from having too much damage spread around accordingly.

Ridiculous gimmick stuff that can be surprisingly scary (though not reliable enough to run most of the time) in this format:

FEAR Aron. I'll let you figure out why. (EDIT: Actually, it's partially mentioned in an earlier post.)

Crazy sh*t I've seen:

There's a top 50 Japanese player this season (Suzu スズ) running a Trick Room team with Garchomp. It's wildly unpredictable. If there's any interest I'll post the video of that encounter. Probably my most memorable match so far.

 

[BlakDragon]

I have interest! Give the video o:

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I have interest! Give the video o:

I should not have won this battle (literally, you'll see) though I could have played better early on. The final turns alone are what convinced me to consider a bulky Will-O-Wisp Charizard over my current one. Her team is pretty incredible and baited me into Taunting a Garchomp on turn one:

57CG-WWWW-WWW8-MTLQ

 

[BlakDragon]

RNGsus was with you that battle, clearly. xD

You have Spiritomb in that replay; I actually had my eye on Spiritomb for its good typing and ability to give substitute users and Kangaskhan a hard time with Infiltrator Will-o-wisps.

Have you tried a dedicated support Spiritomb in rotations? If so, how well does it perform?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

RNGsus was with you that battle, clearly. xD

You have Spiritomb in that replay; I actually had my eye on Spiritomb for its good typing and ability to give substitute users and Kangaskhan a hard time with Infiltrator Will-o-wisps.

Have you tried a dedicated support Spiritomb in rotations? If so, how well does it perform?

Infiltrator Spiritomb was actually one of a few things I was trying as a dedicated Aegislash solution. I'm not sure why I brought him to that match. I guess because of Chandelure and Slowbro and my thinking it had a chance in hell of getting to move first in Trick Room? I'm trying something else right now.

That one is a RestTalking Calm Mind variant that was designed to handily survive Shadow Balls and a number of other things, then toss Dark Pulse around the field (and OHKO Aegislash in blade form, which he underspeeds). He worked ... okay. I also considered a Will-O-Wisp/Pain Split/Sucker Punch one, but I haven't tried it yet. Mostly because I haven't seen as many physical Substitute users. I think one Mawile last season (it only shows a 2.6% use for that move), but that's it. And I'm not currently having enough trouble with Kangaskhan to need it, though it would be great for that. Having some physical bulk and neutral dark resistance give him an edge there most Ghost-types don't have.

Another crazy team I remembered checking my Vs Recorder last night: Someone had a Blaziken + Shedinja + Tyranitar lead.

It ended up not providing too much trouble for me, but I can see how it might. Shedinja can only be hit by Dark, Ghost, Flying, Rock and Fire, most of which are resisted by Tyranitar, which means a free turn for him. If you go for a Will-O-Wisp, you might give Blaziken a free turn to Speed Boost. Toxic could hit all of them, but Blaziken is frail anyway and doesn't really care about it. Swagger is risky business with two physical attackers. And until you do get Shedinja off the field, you risk wasting your turn and taking damage no matter what. Kind of a an interesting way to give himself an advantage, and the kind of thing that's unique to rotation.

EDIT -- Here's a fun fact. I first encountered this last night and it took me by surprise. According to PGL, Talonflame's fourth most commonly used move is Taunt. Watch out for that. And slightly less than 10% of Kangaskhans pack Substitute. If that number rises any, it might be time for that Will-O-Wisp Spiritomb.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Aegislash is very interesting in Rotations...The King's Shield mindgame is soooo good. However, I feel Aegislash suffers from being the most predictable pokemon that's frequently used.

Anyhow... If it is Aegis It will likely have King's Shield, so it will only have two moves to potentially attack with. Physical variants will likely have Iron Head and Sacred Sword (or Shadow Sneak). Special ones will likely have Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon. Mixed... well they lose out on Speed, bulk, or offense.

Let me ask you a question... What pokemon can wall or dispatch it quickly? I would say Suicune and Mega Mawile. If you can predict the King's Shield you get a free boost and the nice thing about Suicune is Scald, if you get either a Calm Mind or two or the Scald burn... Aegis is kinda useless against Suicune.

While Aegis sets up there's nothing to stop you from setting up on the other side of the field, right?

Another thing I like doing, that people call super gimmicky is using Flame Orb Cressy. I typically have her sit on the bench as my fourth mon and switch her in when I see an opportunity.

Ageis's Attack Form 60/50/50 Defenses do not like being Taunted. Rotations are really restrictive when it comes to switching, so as long as you have a decently bulky Taunter, perhaps something like Mandibuzz or something faster like Gyarados... well, I honestly don't see Aegis doing much.

I still have a hard time understanding why people want to suspect it in OU. Its not that hard to play around or plain just set up in its face while it is being forced to King's Shield.

 

[flarz]

I have been experimenting with a wide coverage archetype of team in maison recently, and I will hit the pss ladder when I get access to it in a few days, but that aside it seems to work well. E-Belt Greninja, M-Blaziken, Sash Gengar, Lefties Whimsicott, LO Hydreigon, and Scarf Lando-T. The aim of the game is to hit as hard and fast as possible, leaving the opponent little time and space to recover.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Aegislash is very interesting in Rotations...The King's Shield mindgame is soooo good. However, I feel Aegislash suffers from being the most predictable pokemon that's frequently used.

Oh, for sure. It has one really predictable set dominating on Battle Spot Rotation right now: King's Shield, Substitute, Shadow Ball and Flash Cannon.

Substitute is the only thing making it as scary as it is. If it gets behind the sub, it gets a free hit even on those bulky Pokemon like Suicune, which is dangerous. And you're always hitting it in Shield Form because it's designed to underspeed. Unlike singles, where you get the predictable King's Shield form to at least set up on (even if you can't status it with the sub), here it can just be rotated out, so you don't know when it's going to come back in for a Shield. Suicune isn't a bad idea on the whole, however, and has a ton of utility in Rotation even without Aegislash in play. I might have to try that, though I'd want to get my hands on that Sheer Cold variant, probably.

Also, does Taunt go through Substitute? I feel like I should know that. (EDIT -- Oh my god, it does. Well, that's like not even an issue anymore.)

Greninja is ... I don't know. I don't think he's as frightening in this format as he is elsewhere. The ability to throw all that damage around with high speed is nice, but all you have to do is take one hit and breathe on him with a setup sweeper. I think the strong priority attackers (Talonflame, Sucker Punchers, maybe even Scizor) are a bit scarier.

Re: above: How's Scarf Landorous been working for you? Choice items can get really questionable in Rotation, so I'm curious to see how that goes.

EDIT so as not to bump --

I was in tonight so I played ten matches (all but one against Japanese players because no one else plays this). I saw some new things, so I thought I'd make note of them here:

Mei (メイ), the #5 player worldwide upon last update (#80 finisher last season), uses a Perish Song Azumarill. I was trying out a new team my last five matches that included Substitute Aegislash, and this was what she used to get it off the field. That was actually a ridiculously frustrating match, as it came down to her nearly dead Aegislash vs. my Kangaskhan trying outpredict each other with King's Shield/Sucker Punch, each trying to bluff and track each other's remaining PP. PGL shows a 35% usage rate of Perish Song on Azumarill, its fifth most common move. Makes sense for rotation. Also, I've since resolved to teach my Kangaskhan Earthquake or Crunch.

Another player in the high 1400s had an Emolga. If you're anything like me, you don't know what the f*ck Emolga does, which is probably why he used it. I got into a situation where it looked like Thunderbolt could safely clear the board, which brought me to the first thing I didn't know about Emolga: It has Motor Drive. Well, sh*t, I thought, but that's okay. The second thing I didn't know about Emolga was how f*cking fast it is. Without giving too much away, as this involves a key team member that doesn't make an appearance in the video I posted, I had a not-totally-slow Pokemout at +2 speed. Emolga outsped it and paralyzed it with Nuzzle. I don't even think it was Scarfed. It cost me the match (granted, I was playing like an ass and had options that didn't involve risking that paralysis, which is my fault). At least it'll never happen again, but Emolga, man. Watch out.

Last thing I saw was a Moody Glalie. Like Emolga, I also had no idea what its deal was when I started the match. It kept trying to set up Substitue. Luckily it never got it, but still, yikes. It was paired with a Memento Whimsicott, so I guess they really just wanted to wind up with a crippled field and Super Glalie behind a Substitute?

EDIT EDIT -- Ran the calcs. Emolga had to have been Scarfed. That's ... kind of stupid and I just feel terrible for losing to that now. But I guess that's what happens when you don't know about the Pokemon you're facing.

Other interesting specs, as long as I ended up on PGL:

Most Kangaskhans opt for Earthquake over Fake Out, so don't automatically assume a flinch is coming. Most likely this is for Aegislash, as I learned the hard way tonight. For that matter, they can beat the Substitute variety too, by taking an immune Shadow Ball hit and striking twice on its blade form with Parental Bond, so there's my other answer for that.

Charizard Y is marginally more common than Charizard X, and has been since season two. That kind of surprised me, given Charizard X's superiority as a field-sweeper with Dragon Dance and Dragon Claw, which hits so many things for neutral damage. But keep it in mind. Also, .1% of Charizards this season hold the mighty Power Anklet, so you're going to want to watch out for that. You don't want your opponent to get Speed EVs in the middle of a match.

Garchomp's second most common move is Outrage. At first I thought this sounded like a terrible idea, but I guess if there's a Fairy type on field, you don't want to be using a Dragon-type attack anyway. And if not, Outrage does hit really hard with mostly neutral coverage. Choice Band is about twice as common as Lum Berry.

What does Ferrothorn do? Unique among all the formats, half the Ferrothorn's here carry Curse, which isn't anywhere near its most common moves elsewhere. Makes sense as there are more opportunities to use it here and its benefits stay on the field. Much less of a waste. Expect it to come if you give Ferrothorn a free turn, especially if it's already gotten a Leech Seed off.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Update/bump:

Beat the #1 U.S. player the other day. He used a half Trick Room team. That was a really close match, but he didn't count on the most powerful Pokemon of all -- non-Shell Smashed Cloyster with Ice Shard. I'll probably append this with the battle video.

Unfortunately yesterday I hit a huge string of bad matches where it felt like I just couldn't make a prediction to save my life. In addition some of them were against 1500 players (so maybe just starting this season), which really knocked my rank down. Currently sitting around 1620, I think, but I'm sure I can build that back up. It happens in a game as totally dependent on predictions as rotation is.

Did see a good set, though: One of the top-ranked Japanese players, Ken, (who I'm currently 1-1 with), beat me with a Jellicent running Acid Armor, Trick Room, Scald and Recover. I stupidly let my Thundurus go early and didn't bring my other Pokemon that had a chance to take it out, so it walled me completely and slowly destroyed my team. Cursed Body is an excellent ability in rotation, as it can disable few moves you need to stop it, and you can't switch out to regain them or bring in a counter.

Also, Chandelure is always running an Air Balloon. Actually, it has a 50% usage rate, but that's far more than any other item, and enough to bank on. Air Balloon doesn't announce itself in rotation if the Pokemon begins in a non-active position, so it can be a great asset if your opponent isn't expecting it. Or just to rotate into an Earthquake when it might otherwise look like it can hit the whole field. Bam -- free Trick Room.

 

[Anivia]

Hi, I'm interested in learning some BS Rotation basics, so if anyone could help me out, please do so.
I guess I should post the team I've been using (to some success).

Hide

Octillery @ Choice Specs/Splash Plate
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Water Spout
- Energy Ball
- Fire Blast
- Surf

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam

Rhyperior @ Assault Vest
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Hammer Arm

Gallade (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Agility
- Dragon Claw
- Waterfall
- Roost

 

[EnGarde]

Mewdraco I know MythTrainerInfinity has already responded in the SQ/SA thread, but I'm curious: could you explain further some of your pokemon choices?

What is the logic behind rain on your team? You have dragonite, which is a good teammate, but you're using a physical variant instead of a special variant, so you're missing out on STAB 100% accurate hurricane, plus thunder. If you do choose to keep a physical variant, maybe consider dropping one of your setup moves for espeed or earthquake, and maybe ddance over agility? Also, how often does that weakness policy pop?

You're also not using many of the typical rain partners, which, I totally would have thought kingdra first, but PGL stats state that omastar is the swift swim partner of choice. I understand that, on the surface, this doesn't seem to jive with the premise of a trick room team, however having a team that can work equally well both in and out of TR might be useful, especially since you can bluff not having trick room by including a speedy pokemon.

Another good teammate to consider would be ferrothorn. Leech seed is very powerful, at least according to the OP above, plus it likes having rain support, plus it scares/punishes mega kanga with iron barbs recoil, plus it outspeeds pretty much everything in TR. That'd be a fun choice to experiment with.

Also, why gallade? He seems to me to be a bit of a dark horse choice, since his middling speed places him above the threshold for typical TR, but too slow and frail to be effective as a kangaskhan check (a necessary trait for a fighting type, I would think). Not to mention, the set you're running isn't carrying TR for a backup setter, which I would've expected. Maybe consider another pokemon for this slot?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I actually really like that team. Porygon2 is an excellent Trick Room setter and overall a Pokemon I'm really fond of in rotation, as it gives you a safe option in otherwise questionable scenarios.

However, I agree with Infinity's comment in the other thread about replacing Gallade with Mawile (as well as optimizing all EV distributions for level 50). Sucker Punch also gives you some much-needed priority and an easier win condition: if you can get everything in range of a Sucker Punch KO, you can sit with Mawile in the active position and keep throwing it out regardless of whether Trick Room is up. You always want to look for ways to do that in rotation: "What's going to get me to the point where I can safely win without further predictions?"

I'm also going to drop this here: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 248-294 (148.5 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I wouldn't mess around with getting locked into Fire Blast when Flamethrower already does monstrous damage to one of the threats it's most important for.

I'm also really questioning Water Spout on a Choice Specs set. I'm sure it can sweep sometimes in Trick Room/Rain, but man, that's a risky move to lock yourself into in a format with basically no switching. One priority hit is going to leave you with a fairly tanked Pokemon.

 

[Anivia]

MythTrainerInfinity, EnGarde and Whiskey Tango, thanks for answering so quickly.

My team is initially meant to help Octillery punch holes in defensive cores for another teammate to sweep. Rain Boosted STAB Water Spout really hurts. I do understand the reason not to use Choice items, since I've had bad experiences myself, therefore, I mention Splash Plate as a decent item to replace the Specs.
The reason my last 3 Pokemon are physically orientated is because of the bane of all special attackers that can't learn Psyshock, Blissey (and to a lesser extent, Chansey).
The combination of Weakness Policy, almost no entry hazards, Multiscale and Roost is what makes Dragonite shine lategame, since Dragon Claw and Waterfall give you all the needed coverage (bar Whimsicott). Agility is there because if I can rotate Dragonite to take a hit, Agility that turn and rotate out, it's definitely going to matter lategame against a possible Scarfed/Banded Garchomp(insert whole list of scarfed Pokémon that may be a threat) that may happen to be there and may ruin my day.

I'm definitely switching Gallade out for Mega Mawile, since it has been rather mediocre and there's no real point on wasting a slot for a Pokémon that can't counter Mega K.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yep. I definitely got that the safe Dragonite sweep was your target, and it's a pretty easy one to set up. Mawile will give you that second option though.

 

[EnGarde]

I'm also going to drop this here: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Octillery Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 248-294 (148.5 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Blade vs. shield (removed specs because I don't think they're as good a choice for the octopus)

252+ SpA Octillery Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 70-84 (41.9 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Octillery Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 91-109 (54.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Splash Plate Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 76-90 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also doesn't account for rain

252+ SpA Octillery Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 34-42 (20.3 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Octillery Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 44-55 (26.3 - 32.9%) -- 53.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

At which point hydro pump is stronger

252+ SpA Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 94-112 (56.2 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 122-146 (73 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Splash Plate Octillery Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Rain: 114-135 (68.2 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, octillery doesn't like taking a hit from aegis:

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Octillery: 105-124 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EDIT: added in a new calcs for hydro pump with splash plate instead of life orb.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Woops! Did I run that on Blade Form? It's too late for me to be using the damage calculator.

 

[EnGarde]

Woops! Did I run that on Blade Form? It's too late for me to be using the damage calculator.

No worries, lol. I'm about to turn in as well (should have hours ago, lol).

Also, on a completely unrelated note, it appears that my doubles team is much more suited to rotations than doubles, though that could just be a good bit of beginner's luck on my part. I might test it with lucario swapped out for something more rotations appropriate and see if I can replicate the positive performance tomorrow.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

New threat, guys. I've seen this twice on high 1600-1700 players tonight and it wrecked me both times:

Max defense Bold Clefable holding Kee Berry with Moonlight/Minimize/Calm Mind/Moon Blast. Those all show up in Clefable's PGL statistics. It cannot be killed. Cloyster's Icicle Spear at +4 was doing less than 1/4 its HP. Less than one fourth.

Help me beat this thing. It's not a top 12 on PGL statistics yet, but I have a feeling this will be very common this season, and it works against many, many threats.

Holy god, I ruined my score in this tonight. Like, utterly and completely ruined. I may not be the best person take advice from right now.

 

[Anivia]

Haze is always a great move to deal with those sets, as there's nothing they can do about it. Well, they can taunt you, but what are the chances of predicting a Haze?
A not so common way of dealing with Calm Mind(or whatever other set-up move) is with Focus Sash Topsy-Turvy Malamar.
While gimmicky as Power Trick Shuckle, I've seen that thing stop my sweeps at least 3 times.
However, I do not know if Topsy-Turvy ignores evasiveness modifiers like Roar and Whirlwind do.

 

[EnGarde]

New threat, guys. I've seen this twice on high 1600-1700 players tonight and it wrecked me both times:

Max defense Bold Clefable holding Kee Berry with Moonlight/Minimize/Calm Mind/Moon Blast. Those all show up in Clefable's PGL statistics. It cannot be killed. Cloyster's Icicle Spear at +4 was doing less than 1/4 its HP. Less than one fourth.

Help me beat this thing. It's not a top 12 on PGL statistics yet, but I have a feeling this will be very common this season, and it works against many, many threats.

Holy god, I ruined my score in this tonight. Like, utterly and completely ruined. I may not be the best person take advice from right now.

Hmmmmm.....clefable holding kee berry, you say? You know, it was a really tough decision for me while teambuilding choosing between togekiss with safety goggles and magic guard clefable (togekiss won by a nose because it has more offensive presence and can check amoonguss in doubles). I might play a little more dark side, because I'm seriously tempted to try this out myself, lol.

Anyways, I've been paying attention and really learning what makes evasion-based strategies tick. I know many battlers live in fear of the dreaded evasion miss, but there are very few pokemon that can effectively pull it off (though, admittedly, clefable is one). If there's interest, I can type up what I've learned so far.

You might think about adding one of these moves to a pokemon on your team (quote from bulbapedia):

the moves Stomp, Steamroller, Body Slam, Dragon Rush, Flying Press, and Phantom Force will never miss and their base power is doubled when used against the Minimize user.

Body slam seems the most useful out of that list. Personally, I've found that, when you see it in team preview, keep a check or counter close at hand, and keep up offensive presence. Your opponent won't want to set up so long as there's a chance you'll ping it flash cannon.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

New threat, guys. I've seen this twice on high 1600-1700 players tonight and it wrecked me both times:

Max defense Bold Clefable holding Kee Berry with Moonlight/Minimize/Calm Mind/Moon Blast. Those all show up in Clefable's PGL statistics. It cannot be killed. Cloyster's Icicle Spear at +4 was doing less than 1/4 its HP. Less than one fourth.

Help me beat this thing. It's not a top 12 on PGL statistics yet, but I have a feeling this will be very common this season, and it works against many, many threats.

Holy god, I ruined my score in this tonight. Like, utterly and completely ruined. I may not be the best person take advice from right now.

My favorite responses to Minimize Clefables is either set up in their face as well. Ex. Mega Mawile uses Swords Dance while Clefable does some boosting move. That will stress them out and/or Iron Head it.

My other preferred option is to wall the living daylights out of it either with Blissey/Chansey or another Calm Minder.

A third option is to wall and stall. I will hate you if you try to stall the clock, but if you instead stall me my PP out without being a dick with the timer, it's cool.

If you use Minimize anything though I am not above stalling the timer. Play fair and I will try to play quickly even if it causes me to lose, rather than me stalling out the timer.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

My favorite responses to Minimize Clefables is either set up in their face as well. Ex. Mega Mawile uses Swords Dance while Clefable does some boosting move. That will stress them out and/or Iron Head it.

They have Unaware.

Anyways, I've been paying attention and really learning what makes evasion-based strategies tick. I know many battlers live in fear of the dreaded evasion miss, but there are very few pokemon that can effectively pull it off (though, admittedly, clefable is one). If there's interest, I can type up what I've learned so far.

My thoughts on evasion are that it's always best when paired with something bulky that has access to recovery. Basically, you have to find a Pokemon that can survive on the assumption moves will still hit it on the first several turns of setup. Maybe you have a more nuanced view on it though.

I know there are some people who view an evasion boost as a way of sort of upping both defences, but IMO that's the wrong way to look at it from a probability standpoint. That's relying on the miss, when I feel the most effective users go in with the assumption that it won't pay off immediately.

Clefable with Unaware and methods of boosting both defenses through Kee Berry and Calm Mind, is certainly among its most frightening users.