XY Doubles Offensive Team

[Moudou]

Hi everyone! I've been playing with this team for a while now, and it's had a reasonable success on the ladder, but it's also shown some limits, I was hoping to find a little help on RMT... Well, let's go for it:

The Team:

Detailed explanations:

• Kangaskhan
  Kangaskanite
  Scrappy
  EV: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
  Jolly
  -Fake Out
  -Return
  -Power-Up Punch
  -Sucker Punch
  
  This is a pretty basic set, Scrappy over Inner Focus because this team otherwise has problems against TR, and Jolly over Adamant just to outpace an opposing Kangaskhan. Fake Out was chose over Protect because of TR, and it enables a few extra tricks from time to time. I chose Return over Seismic Toss because I wanted to keep Power-Up Punch (this Fighting-type move can come in handy at times), so it made no sense to me to go for Seismic Toss.
  
  
  
• Bisharp
  Focus sash
  Inner Focus
  EV: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
  Adamant
  -Sword Dance
  -Sucker Punch
  -Iron Head
  -Knock Off
  
  This is pretty much like a Mega-Scizor, except that I already have a Mega Kangaskhan, so I got back to Bisharp. Swords Dance on turn 1 and STAB-Sucker Punch is pretty powerful if you can land it from the start. Iron Head is here to get rid of Faeries, but it also gives a great coverage, Bisharp's amazing strength enabling him to deal severe damage to Rock-type Pokemons sur as Terrakion (Focus Sash helps a lot here). Knock Off delivers massive damage if the priority is not needed on some specific occasions.
  
  
  
• Heatran
  Leftovers
  Flash Fire
  EV: 252HP/252SpA/4SpD
  Modest
  -Heat Wave
  -Flash Canon
  -Earth Power
  -Taunt
  
  Meet our bulky special sweeper. Heat Wave is the only Fire-type move in the set, so it's very precious, as it gets rid of Mawile, Scizor and Ferrothorn, and deals heavy damage to any Pokemon that doesn't specifically resist Fire. Flash Canon is here for coverage, taking care of Terrakion (given Heatran survived, hich will not be as easily granted as with Bisharp...) and Faeries if Bisharp is already KO. Earth Power is there to deal with opposing Fire-Type Pokemons, and more specifically with opposing Heatran, which is reasonably easy to KO with the rest of our team, but can also wreak havoc on our side. Taunt is, I think, necessary in Doubles, as takes care of Clefable, Ferrothorn, TR, Klefki, etc... Sometimes I regret not to have any other Pokemon than Heatran knowing Taunt, but I really can't see what move to remove for Taunt in the team...
  
  
  
• Garchomp
  Rocky Helmet
  Rough Skin
  EV: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
  Jolly
  -Dragon Claw
  -Earthquake
  -Iron Head
  -Stone Edge
  
  Garchomp provides both a decent physical sweeper with a move-set that covers anything the rest of the team won't and a physical "bulk". Generally speaking, it's very useful against Kangaskhan, but also against anything like Malamar or Talonflame, which can't attack without making contact. Dragon claw, along with Jolly nature, is meant to tear dragons down (and specifically Garchomp, which will also have a bad surprise if his answers with the same move). Earthquake is a very powerful move wit a great coverage, Iron Head is to take care of faeries Garchomp will inevitably draw out, and Stone Edge is to OHKO Mega-Charizard Y (Garchomp is faster than him) and any flying-type pokemon.
  
  
  
• Greninja
  Life Orb
  Protean
  EV: 4HP/252SpA/252Spe
  Modest
  -Scald
  -Ice Beam
  -Extrasensory
  -Dark Pulse
  
  This is fast special sweeper, somehow the team's toolbox with an incredible coverage. Scald was chosen over Hydro Pump out of what might be sheer superstition, but with me Hydro Pump seems to have a 12% accuracy... The prospect of burning the target is however worth the lack of power I think. Ice Beam and Dar Pulse give a great coverage, and Extrasensory was chosen to OHKO all of the Fighting-type Pokemon in the metagame, which Greninja has a hard time dealing with without Extrasensory. It can also seriously damage a Mega-Venusaur, and not be vulnerable to an upcoming Giga-Drain.
  
  
  
• Aegislash
  Leftovers
  Stance Change
  EV: 4HP/252Def/252SpD
  Calm
  -Subsitute
  -King's Shield
  -Shadow Ball
  -Flash Canon
  
  This is the team's bulk. On it's defensive stance, he is very close to being un-OHKO-able, which gives time to set up a Substitute to avoid suffering from a Will-o-wisp burn every turn or from an Encore following King's Shield. Shadow Ball is pretty much his best move but sometimes, against Normal-typed Pokemon such as Kangaskhan for instance, it just isn't good enough, so Flash Canon provides a very sweet coverage.

OK so that's it, that's my team. There is room for improvement, I know it. For instance, half of the team is taking super-effective damage from Earthquake (which sometimes is a problem when fighting alongside with Garchomp) and no-one resists it. There are no true Bulk either (Aegislash can bearly be considered as one), I think it's not unreasonable in the format but maybe I'm wrong and I need to let go of the Offensive concept. I spotted these two issues (and I'm sure to have missed quite a few), but I don't know which Pokemon/move/ability to change first without loosing a team that has, until now, given somewhat good results. Last thing, Aegislash was very recently added, so I'm really not sure if this is the ideal set...

 

[Arcticblast]

Hey Moudou, welcome to Smogon!

This team is already pretty well put together, as you're using a bunch of already solid Pokemon (Greninja aside) with a mind for each Pokemon's checks and counters. One thing I'm noticing, however, is a lack of Protect. Protect is arguably the best move to carry on a Pokemon in the entire tier. Despite seeming like it would waste a turn, it's actually vital for keeping up offensive momentum - you can check out Electrolyte's article on how to use Protect for more information. Like seriously, read it. I hear Shrek says "Protect is love, Protect is life" sometimes...

Now, the main thing I think your team needs is some sort of Ground resist or immunity (especially considering how good Landorus-T is right now). There are a few other things your team could definitely use, mainly Intimidate and a less flimsy Water resist. You also have a couple issues with Amoonguss, although you definitely have some answers to it already. I have a few ideas on how to fix these issues, and I'll put each method in hide tags below. Each hide tag is a different set of changes - I would advise against mixing them up, although if you wish to do so feel free to ask about ideas there.

Not an option: optimization of current sets, should you choose to keep them

Kangaskhan is already perfect :)

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head

Defiant is Bisharp's big niche in Doubles. Since Intimidate is an incredibly common ability, Bisharp is able to threaten many Intimidate users with a boosted Iron Head or Sucker Punch, making it perhaps the best partner to powerful physical attackers like Terrakion and Kangaskhan. Swords Dance is both difficult to use and mostly unneeded with Defiant, and Protect is much more valuable.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Taunt

Air Balloon will give you a temporary Ground immunity, which can be incredibly useful. These EVs let Heatran outrun uninvested Rotom-Wash. Protect over Flash Cannon because you really don't need the Steel coverage with Bisharp and Aegislash already. Taunt Heatran is a cool set :)

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide

Protect over Iron Head, same deal as Heatran. Rock Slide is an option over Stone Edge for the flinch rate, but Stone Edge is the better move by far.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory
- Dark Pulse / Ice Beam

If Greninja takes a single hit, it dies. Protect allows it to avoid hits, while Hydro Pump - as much as you might dislike the accuracy - will more often than not do far more damage than Scald will. Extrasensory on this particular team is non-negotiable. The choice between Ice Beam and Dark Pulse is more of a "what do I see more often?" thing, since your team is pretty much set against Dragons and Ghosts alike.

Aegislash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon

On almost all Pokemon, HP is better to invest in than defenses. Rather than explaining it, I'll just give you some damage calculations:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Aegislash-Shield: 168-198 (64.1 - 75.5%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 198-234 (61.1 - 72.2%)
See? Investing in max HP grants you more bulk while also letting you go on the offensive with maximum Special Attack. The Quiet nature with a minimum Speed IV gives you a better answer to Trick Room while maximizing Aegislash's bulk against threats that normally do not outrun it. On this team, Wide Guard seems to be a much better move than Substitute - while you can mostly handle Mega Kangaskhan, you still need an answer to Earthquake, which Wide Guard is very helpful for. Since you're using Wide Guard now, Sitrus Berry will let you restore 25% HP in a pinch - which can often make the difference between being killed by a double target and surviving with a sliver of HP!

Did you read that last hide tag? No? Well go read it. It's simple modifications that will make your Pokemon more effective, no matter what you do to the team. Basically, these sets are improvements on your old sets.

Now for the changes I'd like to suggest. Keep in mind these are suggestions - you can read one of them or all of them, and you can implement none of them if you hate them all. Just figure out what you'd like to do more. There's a lot of text here though!

Option 1:

minimal change: Greninja/Shaymin-Sky

Shaymin-Sky @ Life Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Earth Power

No, it's not banned! Shaymin-S is basically a better version of Greninja on your team - it carries the coveted Ground immunity you're looking for, massive power, and the same coverage you're looking for. It takes care of the myriad Fighting-types in the metagame much better than Greninja's Extrasensory ever could while packing a little bit more bulk to take Water attacks. STAB Seed Flare is also incredibly strong, and when it comes with the high Special Defense drop chance it's hard to turn down. Air Slash gives you a strong secondary STAB that hits Keldeo, Hitmontop, etc. while also smacking around Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur. Earth Power is simply a coverage move, but it has its use in hitting Heatran (watch out for Shuca Berry!) and Bisharp.

Option 2:

Heavy change: Bisharp/Tornadus-I / Garchomp/Landorus-T / Greninja/Rotom-W

Tornadus (M)
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Acrobatics
- Superpower
- Knock Off / U-turn / Tailwind / Taunt / Rain Dance

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Superpower

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SpA / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt / Electroweb
- Will-O-Wisp

Intimidate is an awesome tool in Smogon Doubles, lowering the Attack stat of both opponents, and Landorus-T is by far the best user of the ability - if not the best Pokemon in the entire metagame! Its Choice Scarf set is simply incredible, letting it fire off a fast Earthquake, deal huge damage to Mega Kangaskhan, kill off Mega Charizard Y without a second thought, and in case of a bad matchup (or a Latios) get its ass out of battle with U-turn.

Rotom-W is the best partner Landorus-T could possibly have because it provides support on the other side of the spectrum while also being immune to Lando's Earthquakes. Rotom-W is able to burn physical attackers, especially boosters and Defiant users, to support the team while hitting things with a strong Hydro Pump. Thunderbolt is its ideal last move, although Electroweb is also usable should you want to slow things down (it's like Icy Wind).

This leaves you a little bit vulnerable to opposing Pokemon like Amoonguss, however - so enter Tornadus! It keeps Bisharp's Defiant while bringing a lot more Speed to the table, and is able to hit many Fighting-types for super effective damage with Acrobatics. Knock Off is Tornadus's best option in the fourth moveslot, although Tornadus has such a nice movepool that pretty much anything works in its place! The best part of this change is that all three of these Pokemon are immune to Ground, giving you the opportunity to switch in against Garchomp or Landorus-T whenever you need to.

If you decide to go through with this change, Heatran's item can be changed to any of Sitrus Berry, Life Orb, Shuca Berry, or even Charcoal - but you definitely don't need the Balloon any more.

Now that I think about it, I kind of like this option actually!

Option 3:

Medium but unsure change: Garchomp/Latios / Greninja/Gyarados

I just realized this option involves replacing two blue Pokemon with two more blue Pokemon. Heh...

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Tailwind / Energy Ball

Gyarados @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang / Stone Edge
- Double-Edge / Facade

or...

Gyarados @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Impish Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Icy Wind / Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge

This change incorporates both Ground immunities and Intimidate in one bag while not giving up important coverage. Latios provides the nuke that is Life Orb STAB Draco Meteor, as well as Psyshock for Amoonguss and the tier's various Fighting-types. Latios's final slot is again up to you - Hidden Power Ground hits Heatran hard and is best with support Gyarados, but Tailwind and Energy Ball are both valid options if you choose Choice Band Gyarados - Tailwind provides a temporary speed boost to your whole team, while Energy Ball does major damage to Rotom-W.

Gyarados provides Intimidate support. However, what you decide to do with Gyarados is up to you. You can go the offensive route with the Choice Band set, or you can go for the support set. The Choice Band set packs a major punch, especially to Water-weak targets. Ice Fang can be replaced with Stone Edge for a guaranteed KO on Mega Charizard Y in Sun (although Waterfall might still do the job!) and a harder hit on Thundurus, Togekiss, and other Gyarados. Double-Edge is the best option in the last slot, although Facade can be used if you're terrified of burns. The support set is mostly there for its access to more than one form of speed control. Since you're running Taunt Heatran, you no longer need it on Gyarados, meaning you can now run Stone Edge in the fourth slot for the hit on Charizard. Icy Wind vs. Thunder Wave is up to you.

If you choose this option, Heatran's item can be changed to any of Sitrus Berry, Life Orb, Shuca Berry, or even Charcoal - but just like with option 2, you definitely don't need the Balloon any more. I think Shuca Berry is the best option here. The addition of two extra Fire and Water resists means you don't really need to run Wide Guard on Aegislash any more - you can either replace it with Substitute and give it its Leftovers back, use Sacred Sword with a Colbur Berry as a Bisharp lure, or even run Shadow Sneak with Weakness Policy.

Note: switching Gyarados to Rotom-W is also an option here, but I think the offensive support Choice Band Gyarados provides is much more useful in this instance.

Still alive after all that reading? I hope so! I also hope I've provided you with a fix for your team's problems. Some of the options I've presented are very basic, while some are a bit more unorthodox (but let's be real, it doesn't take much to make Mega Kangaskhan work). You may notice that none of my replacements handle Trick Room particularly well - while it's true I haven't introduced any counters to it, I feel that with Mega Kangaskhan's Fake Out, Aegislash's low Speed and high power attacks, and general offensive pressure, you should be able to be able to combat Trick Room. Protect helps a lot with that too, since you can stall out Trick Room turns.

Whether or not you decide to take my suggestions, I wish you the best of luck with the team!

 

[Moudou]

Well thanks a lot Arcticblast ! That was really helpful!

Of course I read it all ;-) I think I'll try all three sets so I can figure out which one works the best. It might take a while, but it'll be worth it.

However, I couldn't help but noticing that in all three sets, you kick Greninja out of the team. And I'm a little surprised, because, apart from Shaymin-Sky (I know it's not banned ;-)), it was to me the best special sweeper in Smogon Doubles, and I chose it over Shaymin-Sky just because it has better coverage. I was never disappointed by Greninja (except for the on-switch Mach Punch vulnerability) so I'm feeling like a fool reading your advice... If you could explain a little more in detail why you don't like it (is it just because "if you hit it, it dies"?), that would be great!

 

[Arcticblast]

Greninja's main problem is that it isn't strong enough to compensate for its frailty. Sure it has good coverage along with Protean, but even that isn't able to bring it up. It simply doesn't pack enough of a punch in many situations.

That said, Greninja isn't necessarily a bad Pokemon - I've seen it used successfully - but when you're comparing it with Kangaskhan, Bisharp, Heatran, Garchomp, and Aegislash it's obviously going to look like the weak link on the team :O

Also it's early so this explanation might sound off, please don't blame me here

 

[Moudou]

It clearly isn't very endurant, but I thought the team could use that fast sweeper.

The medium changes you proposed (third option) proved pretty performant until now (Choice Band+Gyarados+Waterfall is really awesome). But there's a problem with Tornadus and Defiant+one of it's moves (on Option 2), but I don't know which move creates the problem...

 

[Arcticblast]

It clearly isn't very endurant, but I thought the team could use that fast sweeper.

The medium changes you proposed (third option) proved pretty performant until now (Choice Band+Gyarados+Waterfall is really awesome). But there's a problem with Tornadus and Defiant+one of it's moves (on Option 2), but I don't know which move creates the problem...

You probably copied more than one of the slashed moves in the last slot if you copy/pasted the set from my post. I've done it too :(

 

[Moudou]

No, I've done it without the text afterwards (clicking and all that stuff), there's just one move, but one of them isn't allowed alongside with Defiant in the format it would seem...

 

[qwerts]

Change out greninja for a shaymin sky! It's a fast special sweeper who's immune to ground and can flinch hax pokes along with wreck water and grass types! Other than that great team! Set for skymin:
Shaymin-Sky @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Protect
- Earth Power

Other then that solid looking team.

 

[Moudou]

Sure did! But right now, the best option seems to be the medium-changed one, as the heavy-changed one lacks of metal moves