Eh all I can say is it's annoying when a small subset of players try to make a game that was never intended to be e-sport or competitive into one kind of and declare all other versions dumb. SSB isn't Tekken, SF, etc etc, and it never will be thankfully. Can't it just be enjoyed as the casual fighting game that it's meant to be?
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Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
I think a balance of both in a game is the best.
I personally play casually, but watching competitive Smash games has always something I've found enjoyable, whether that be in Melee or Brawl.
I don't think Capefeather particularly needed to reply to your alt thread, but his response seemed reasonable. No amount of negativity has stopped people from buying Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed, no one is going to "kill the hype" for Smash 4. You would sleep better at night if you didn't become so personally invested in things that aren't big problems.
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You're talking to a community filled with people who aren't content taking a game that is meant to be played casually and just "having fun"....
Pick your crowds, man...
Pic of the day. For the first time ever in the Super Smash Bros. series, here's a Paper Mario stage! It's made of paper, so strong winds will blow it away.
(Comment)
Since the stage is paper, it transforms when it folds over and opens up again. This ship is the S.S. Flavion from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door.
(I don't want to get involved in the Melee and Brawl argument, I think its been done to death already.)
Nobody is complaining about whether or not captain falcon is viable. We have someone who placed 5th at EVO with a pikachu, so yes, a large amount of the cast is viable. Fox isn't even the most successful character; studies have been done and fox is not nearly as rewarding as people think. Unless you consider mango a true fox main, no fox main has won a national recently other than leffen. Mango does prefer fox but even then, there are simply so many top tier non-fox players that the 20XX conspiracy will not happen for at least quite a bit of time, if ever. PP mains falco and marth, armada peach, m2k shiek and marth (his fox has not come out recently), Hungrybox jigglypuff, axe pikachu, etc.
L canceling does not serve as an arbitrary feature; it's deeper than people think. Try mindlessly spamming aerials without l canceling - it's hard. L canceling is made to tell your brain when you land. While this technique should definitely have been made more accessible, you cannot claim that it was an arbitrary skill barrier. It ensures that a player is not dependent solely on timing because he now has to use the visual aspect of the game. I honestly think playing at a higher level would be harder without l canceling and with auto canceling in its place, but that's just my theory.
That being said, smash 4 is its own game and we should embrace it for what it is.
L canceling does not serve as an arbitrary feature; it's deeper than people think. Try mindlessly spamming aerials without l canceling - it's hard. L canceling is made to tell your brain when you land. While this technique should definitely have been made more accessible, you cannot claim that it was an arbitrary skill barrier. It ensures that a player is not dependent solely on timing because he now has to use the visual aspect of the game. I honestly think playing at a higher level would be harder without l canceling and with auto canceling in its place, but that's just my theory.
That being said, smash 4 is its own game and we should embrace it for what it is.
As a Melee player (I've never hidden this fact) I don't like the fact that Brawl dumbed down the game. All of the advanced techs aren't some arbitrary skill barrier, they're to be used as either mind games, to put yourself into a a good position, or to set up your combo. My issue with Brawl is that some of these great combos (going from 64 to Melee) were made useless and instead were made trading hits.
You want a fighting game? You have combos characters can make:
MVC2 Clockwork Combo
Tekken (don't really watch it so sorry if I picked a bad match)
Street Fighter
Super Smash Brothers Melee
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Here's what I see in the Brawl matchup: I see players both being able to do actions after being hit, making it possible to get out of a move that should end their stock (game). I don't consider that to be up to fighting game standard. I don't think that Brawl having a wildly out of balance list to be competitive (and don't mention Falco and Fox because there's Sheik, Jiggs, Falcon, Marth, and ICs) and I don't find its randomly elements to be found competitive by any means.
When I say Melee is the best game in the Smash series I mean it. It's the most non-RNG reliant (hello Pikmen and tripping), it, arguably (unless you're Isai) more balanced than Smash 64 (which has actual 0-death combos).
Brawl has a slow game that has a few advanced techs and if you'd like here's a list of other fighting games with advanced techs (ignore the Brawl link because it basically is a list of telling you that it's possible to swim and break the Reflector). Also note that I said few and not none, while the few that exist aren't actually that previlant to winning (unlike the techs Clockwork uses with his Strider combo in my link above with MvC2 or the techs that are used in SSBM or SF).
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Brawl is sup-par in every aspect of being called a "fighting game" and while it's not as good as Melee it does have some benefits (the top tier is more spread out,) it shouldn't even be mentioned in the breath of the previous two games as it is no where near as skill dependent.
You want a fighting game? You have combos characters can make:
MVC2 Clockwork Combo
Tekken (don't really watch it so sorry if I picked a bad match)
Street Fighter
Super Smash Brothers Melee
Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Here's what I see in the Brawl matchup: I see players both being able to do actions after being hit, making it possible to get out of a move that should end their stock (game). I don't consider that to be up to fighting game standard. I don't think that Brawl having a wildly out of balance list to be competitive (and don't mention Falco and Fox because there's Sheik, Jiggs, Falcon, Marth, and ICs) and I don't find its randomly elements to be found competitive by any means.
When I say Melee is the best game in the Smash series I mean it. It's the most non-RNG reliant (hello Pikmen and tripping), it, arguably (unless you're Isai) more balanced than Smash 64 (which has actual 0-death combos).
Brawl has a slow game that has a few advanced techs and if you'd like here's a list of other fighting games with advanced techs (ignore the Brawl link because it basically is a list of telling you that it's possible to swim and break the Reflector). Also note that I said few and not none, while the few that exist aren't actually that previlant to winning (unlike the techs Clockwork uses with his Strider combo in my link above with MvC2 or the techs that are used in SSBM or SF).
EDIT:
Brawl is sup-par in every aspect of being called a "fighting game" and while it's not as good as Melee it does have some benefits (the top tier is more spread out,) it shouldn't even be mentioned in the breath of the previous two games as it is no where near as skill dependent.
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Hey now, last I checked, a "fighting game" isn't intrinsically required to be completely competitive, they're two different ball games. Compare to Pokemon - both are games where the goal is to win, but it isn't a competitive-intended series. Casual is the intended target, even for Melee. It just so happened Melee works well in a competitive setting.
You don't get to call Brawl "subpar at being called a fighting game" because that makes no sense.
If we're gonna have this discussion, break it off into a separate thread. It's too big for the Smash thread.
I'd like to imagine Star Fox will be getting more representation, but personally I only see Falco and Wolf returning.
I didn't like adventures too much. It was different, but not that great. I did however enjoy Assault but characters such as Krystal and Slippy just don't seem right to me, especially when we still don't have Falco and Wolf.
Regarding the Star Fox veterans; I know that people love Falco way too much for Sakurai to remove him entirely, but I really do not have faith that he'll return as a full character. Aside from a few moves (jab, neutral special, down special, up tilt, neutral air, down air, forward air) all his moves are either extremely similar or identical to Fox's. I'm guessing they'll just put his laser and shield as a custom move for Fox and either make him a costume with different taunts and voice commands, or make him a Lucina-type clone with slower falling/running speeds and probably give him his dair.
With Wolf, I think he's either gonna be a full character or be cut completely.
With Wolf, I think he's either gonna be a full character or be cut completely.
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Lucina was an attempt at making a skin for one character into a completely different one. I highly doubt that they'd move Lucina to a roster spot while leaving a character that already has a different moveset as a skin.
As wonderful as this would be, the 3ds version will only have 2 songs per stage, and it seems the Paper Mario stage will only be on the 3ds thanks to Sticker Star. A man can dream, though...
As wonderful as this would be, the 3ds version will only have 2 songs per stage, and it seems the Paper Mario stage will only be on the 3ds thanks to Sticker Star. A man can dream, though...
The only thing that gives Star Fox hope of new characters is the new Star Fox game that was revealed at E3, but I wouldn't count on it. As mentioned, if anything there's a risk of cuts.
I'd prefer it if Donkey Kong got a newcomer - that series has recently had a couple of well-recieved titles and is probably more relevant than Fox at the moment. But even then the only real candidates are Dixie Kong - who I'm unsure about in terms of deserving a spot - and K.Rool who's last game was a mario sports title six years ago. That retro didn't include him or the Kremlings in Returns is possibly their only crime. Here's hoping for the next game...
That said, there are Kremlings in Smash run, and Sakurai must surely be aware that K Rool is one of the most requested characters.
I'd prefer it if Donkey Kong got a newcomer - that series has recently had a couple of well-recieved titles and is probably more relevant than Fox at the moment. But even then the only real candidates are Dixie Kong - who I'm unsure about in terms of deserving a spot - and K.Rool who's last game was a mario sports title six years ago. That retro didn't include him or the Kremlings in Returns is possibly their only crime. Here's hoping for the next game...
That said, there are Kremlings in Smash run, and Sakurai must surely be aware that K Rool is one of the most requested characters.