Alright, BLOOD TOTEM is the winner for our first core (again lol). Congrats, you will now be our first battler!
Now it's time to nominate a good core for Team #2!
Now it's time to nominate a good core for Team #2!
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Counter That Doubles Team #2! (Team #1 Submissions!)
- Thread starter LightningLuxray
- Start date
Still in it to win it
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
- Protect
Both of these mons outspeed both of TOTEMs, and both of them have Spread moves that guarantee a KO on both Toge and MegaZard X. Adamant Terrak underspeeds Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Gardevoir doesn't trigger Togekiss's Sitrus Berry. HP Ground provides great coverage, hitting nearly every Steel-Type in the tier. Taunt on Terrakion helps deal with Wide Guard, as well as Status/Tailwind/Follow Me.
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 242-283 (81.2 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 195-231 (65.4 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 273-322 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 153-180 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Taunt
- Protect
Both of these mons outspeed both of TOTEMs, and both of them have Spread moves that guarantee a KO on both Toge and MegaZard X. Adamant Terrak underspeeds Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Gardevoir doesn't trigger Togekiss's Sitrus Berry. HP Ground provides great coverage, hitting nearly every Steel-Type in the tier. Taunt on Terrakion helps deal with Wide Guard, as well as Status/Tailwind/Follow Me.
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 242-283 (81.2 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 195-231 (65.4 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 273-322 (72.9 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 153-180 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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Throwing support behind the above submission; typical weak points in the above core are only found in the Mega forme (we don't have to worry about Scizor, the only relevant and faster offensive Steel-type, nor do we have to worry about Mega Gengar, the only relevant and faster offensive Ghost / Poison type), so TOTEM's team is going to have try to just check us.
I'd personally run Taunt over Quick Guard on Terrakion; we currently have no use for QG and we're not weak to any relevant priority just yet, so we don't need Quick Guard. Taunt, on the other hand, already helps stop Togekiss in situations where we can't KO it immediately, and stops Zard X from being too scary as well. Another key thing Taunt helps out with is countering Wide Guard- which TOTEM's team is almost guaranteed to use right now*. Unfortunately, Feint isn't that great of an option for us right now, because most Feint users either can't be used because Garde already takes the Mega slot (MPinsir) or because we already have a Fighting-type and adding another will create type patterns that will be abysmal defensively and extremely easy to counterteam (Fighting-types like Hitmontop / Scrafty)
I'd rather we have some degree of defense right now, which Taunt will definitely help with.
*Taunt also fucks up Aegislash, which is the only other main concern this core has
I'd personally run Taunt over Quick Guard on Terrakion; we currently have no use for QG and we're not weak to any relevant priority just yet, so we don't need Quick Guard. Taunt, on the other hand, already helps stop Togekiss in situations where we can't KO it immediately, and stops Zard X from being too scary as well. Another key thing Taunt helps out with is countering Wide Guard- which TOTEM's team is almost guaranteed to use right now*. Unfortunately, Feint isn't that great of an option for us right now, because most Feint users either can't be used because Garde already takes the Mega slot (MPinsir) or because we already have a Fighting-type and adding another will create type patterns that will be abysmal defensively and extremely easy to counterteam (Fighting-types like Hitmontop / Scrafty)
I'd rather we have some degree of defense right now, which Taunt will definitely help with.
*Taunt also fucks up Aegislash, which is the only other main concern this core has
I prefer Quick Guard mang. Gardevoir is vulnerable to Sucker Punches and Brave Birds. The core doesn't care about taunting Togekiss, since their Spread moves bypass Follow Me and destroys Charizard X anyways. Gardevoir can simply kill off Hitmontop with Psyshock. The core loses to Aegislash even if Terrakion uses Taunt.
I wouldn't worry about Talonflame; it has near awful synergy with TOTEM's current team. If it is selected, we can just throw in something like Stealth Rock and be better off than before. As for Sucker Punch; the most common user of the move already has an extremely difficult time switching in to the core, and MKang is no longer an option. No MKang also means not as much Fake Out, and with Gardevoir, Hitmontopv/ Scrafty won't be viable options for TOTEM's team, either. Azumarill's Aqua Jet is probably the most significant thing QG stops, but even then there's no reason why Terrakiom should be staying in on it anyway.
As for Aegislash- if you manage to Taunt it without taking damage, you can easily beat it, as it'll be locked into offensive mode and either forced to switch or forced to die by Garde's HP Ground. All it really takes as a predicted hit against the switchin or a clever use of Protect.
As for Aegislash- if you manage to Taunt it without taking damage, you can easily beat it, as it'll be locked into offensive mode and either forced to switch or forced to die by Garde's HP Ground. All it really takes as a predicted hit against the switchin or a clever use of Protect.
Good point, Electrolyte. I made the change.
Alright, so we only have one core right now... I'll leave this open for another day, but if we don't get any submissions by tomorrow, Deoxymoron will win by default.
Terrakion @ Life Orb
ability: Justified
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Quick Guard
- Protect
Victini @ Shuca Berry
ability: Victory Star
evs: 66 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
- Helping Hand
- Blue Flare
- Hidden Power Ice
- Protect
This is better than Deoxymoron's counter-core because Rock Slide always misses when you want it to hit. With Victory Star, it has an actual chance of hitting! Helping Hand Rock Slide Easily KOs Mega Charizard X and has a 98% chance to KO Togekiss. Quick Guard is also cooler. Victini also beats Aegislash (which the other core doesn't) and deals with Landorus-T, the biggest butt to Terrakion, KOing with HP Ice with only a little passive damage; it also protects Terrakion from stuff like Scarf Garchomp or Excadrill in sand. Helping Hand + priority (from a later teammate) is also an easy way to take out Mega Charizard X even if it gets out of hand and has a couple boosts. Also Blue Flare hurts stuff. This core is very rain weak, but the other team cannot use rain without making Zard X sucky. Also this core isn't weak to Keldeo because, with love, Terrakion wins the speed tie (but an Amoonguss as a partner would help). We will need something for Latios though cause beast.
What better way to beat a fire type attacking core than with rain?
Fundurus (Thundurus) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 140 HP / 136 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
The Face of Mercy (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
- Waterfall
The purpose of this core is to set up rain and kill checks to a rain sweeper, like Kingdra or Ludicolo, so it can sweep. Azumarill's EV spread and moveset is basic; waterfall OHKOes Charizard in the rain (252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X in Rain: 328-387 (110 - 129.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO), while a +2 zard cant even 2HKO (+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill in Rain: 171-201 (42.3 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Thunderous's job is to support with rain and taunt. The EVs are meant to allow it to OHKO Togekiss 100% of the time with thunder and outspeed max invested base 108s (terrekion, keldeo, infernape). The rest of the EVs are dumped into HP so that with intimidate support it can stick around for a while to keep setting up rain. I also think that weather wars would be kind of fun to mess around with in this, to see what interesting things people come up with.
Fundurus (Thundurus) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 140 HP / 136 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Rain Dance
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
The Face of Mercy (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower
- Waterfall
The purpose of this core is to set up rain and kill checks to a rain sweeper, like Kingdra or Ludicolo, so it can sweep. Azumarill's EV spread and moveset is basic; waterfall OHKOes Charizard in the rain (252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X in Rain: 328-387 (110 - 129.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO), while a +2 zard cant even 2HKO (+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill in Rain: 171-201 (42.3 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO). Thunderous's job is to support with rain and taunt. The EVs are meant to allow it to OHKO Togekiss 100% of the time with thunder and outspeed max invested base 108s (terrekion, keldeo, infernape). The rest of the EVs are dumped into HP so that with intimidate support it can stick around for a while to keep setting up rain. I also think that weather wars would be kind of fun to mess around with in this, to see what interesting things people come up with.
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Alright, voting is now Open :]
Good idea (for thundy; I need the raw power that azumarill packs with the choice band. It isn't supposed to be a sweeper) Lightning luxaray, am I allowed to make that minor adjustment to my core?
Um yeah sure @_@
voting qazoo306, weather would definitely add an interesting spin
Alright, so the winner of Core #2 is Qazoo306. Congrats!
Now it's time to our third Pokemon for Team 2!
Also, BLOOD TOTEM and Qazoo306, you guys need to send me your retainers. :o
Now it's time to our third Pokemon for Team 2!
Also, BLOOD TOTEM and Qazoo306, you guys need to send me your retainers. :o
LightningLuxray the score is 3-3, just wondering how you made qazoo the winner?
Edit: nvm i messed up srry to bother you
Edit: nvm i messed up srry to bother you
Alright, here's my nomination :]
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Protect
Since we've decided on rain as out core for Team 2, why not add a Swift Swim user? With Kabutops, we have an extremely fast Rock Slide under rain that hits both Togekiss and Charizard, doing massive damage with a Life Orb, STAB, and a great Attack stat.. Waterfall is also powered up greatly in rain and hits incredibly hard. While Low Kick may seem weird in the last slot, it's there to hit a potential Ferrothorn pick by Team 1, as it's one of the best answers to rain teams out there.
I'm not sure if this is necessarily better than Terrakion, as it isn't as depended on rain, but I do like how powerful and fast this thing is in rain :]
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Waterfall
- Low Kick
- Protect
Since we've decided on rain as out core for Team 2, why not add a Swift Swim user? With Kabutops, we have an extremely fast Rock Slide under rain that hits both Togekiss and Charizard, doing massive damage with a Life Orb, STAB, and a great Attack stat.. Waterfall is also powered up greatly in rain and hits incredibly hard. While Low Kick may seem weird in the last slot, it's there to hit a potential Ferrothorn pick by Team 1, as it's one of the best answers to rain teams out there.
I'm not sure if this is necessarily better than Terrakion, as it isn't as depended on rain, but I do like how powerful and fast this thing is in rain :]
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Return
- Feint
- Protect
Team 2's current core can't do much to Ferrothorn and Amoonguss, so I think Pinsir complements it fairly well. Easily blows through bulky grasses, hits like a truck, while taking an advantage of the the rain to get a fire neutrality. Feint also helps Azumarill rek everything.
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In the spirit of steeljackal
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
- Protect
EVed to outrun Togekiss (can taunt it yay!), convenient lefties number for HP recovery
80+ SpA Togekiss Aura Sphere vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 152-180 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 254-302 (67.9 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO through Sitrus
meanwhile, good against the obnoxious grasses mentioned in the post above mine. Hope you don't mind I took off rocky helmet bby :/
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
- Protect
EVed to outrun Togekiss (can taunt it yay!), convenient lefties number for HP recovery
80+ SpA Togekiss Aura Sphere vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 152-180 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 254-302 (67.9 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO through Sitrus
meanwhile, good against the obnoxious grasses mentioned in the post above mine. Hope you don't mind I took off rocky helmet bby :/
What made you go Will-O-Wisp > Earth Power? Earth Power seems nice for being able to hit Charizard X.In the spirit of steeljackal
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flash Cannon
- Taunt
- Protect
EVed to outrun Togekiss (can taunt it yay!), convenient lefties number for HP recovery
80+ SpA Togekiss Aura Sphere vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 152-180 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 254-302 (67.9 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO through Sitrus
meanwhile, good against the obnoxious grasses mentioned in the post above mine. Hope you don't mind I took off rocky helmet bby :/