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- Thread starter Pikachuun
- Start date
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
You don't have to run normal moves, tbh. Certain sets can actually thrive without normal moves (Mixed Aegislash, even without its Return, is still good because of its typing and that Shadow Ball nuke, as an example).
Yeah, if I have a choice between a 132 BP Return or a 80 BP Shadow Ball, which do you think I'm going to choose?
The one that fits your team best.
IDK why are you asking between a steel type physical move and a ghost type special move, both have literally different applications based on the team, especially for something as versatile as Aegislash.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
ATM this is unplayable, as both the servers with it are down. Either way, this is frontrunner for OMOTM atm so yeah. We won't have stall in this meta either, since everything is a wallbreaker. I will find some creative ideas besides Cube and may post them here at some point.
EDIT: Playable on Pandora - pandora.psim.us
I will be in the english lobby for another couple hours if anybody feels like testing with me.
Edit 2:
Also, stuff isin't as hilariously broken as people say it is. This will be a somewhat offensive meta, but there are a lot of pokemon who only kind of gain wallbreaking power a bit, and not much else. On most pokes, its more of a power creep than a power explosion.
EDIT: Playable on Pandora - pandora.psim.us
I will be in the english lobby for another couple hours if anybody feels like testing with me.
Edit 2:
Also, stuff isin't as hilariously broken as people say it is. This will be a somewhat offensive meta, but there are a lot of pokemon who only kind of gain wallbreaking power a bit, and not much else. On most pokes, its more of a power creep than a power explosion.
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that's exactly why noivern has aerilate.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
#i'm stupid
Wherever the meta where the second type determines something was what i was thinking of. I really am not on my game today...
The benefits of -ate access, by type.
When talking about Special moves, I am mostly ignoring Uproar, instead focusing on Hyper Voice, Tri Attack, and Tri Attack-through-Nature Power. Uproar is just as strong as Hyper Voice of course, but does not represent a 'free' boost over using an equivalent-strength natural move, since it locks you in upon use. All other widely available special attacking Normal moves are 60 Power or less, and unlikely to represent an improvement unless the Pokemon is already sad and pathetic to the point of being near-unusable. (Such as Dedenne, which almost completely lacks Fairy moves)
It's worth noting that Arceus gets Hyper Voice. I presume it remains banned in this meta, but in any event Arceus should never run Judgment in this meta, unless you're concerned about Soundproof opponents. (You shouldn't be, really) After the -ate bonus, Hyper Voice is stronger, and it punches right through Substitutes.
All Eeveelutions get Hyper Voice, though that's not the same thing as saying all of them offer real value by doing so: Flareon has enough Special Attack to use this, Leafeon does not. Something to keep in mind though.
Anytime I name a specific Pokemon within a type, I have made sure to confirm that its primary type is the relevant one. By the same token, I have not listed examples like Meloetta learning Hyper Voice in Psychic, because I have already checked and determined that it's Normal/Psychic.
Normal: Normal types have somewhat less mediocre offense overall, but are handily outshined by other types regardless. In some cases it's even more dramatic than normal: Noivern pretty much invalidates Exploud as a Boomburst user, being faster, harder hitting, and with Flying type's only disadvantage compared to Normal being that Electric resists it. On the other hand, Mega Kangaskhan is even better than normal, since its primary offense actually is Return/Frustration.
Ghost: Physically oriented Ghosts get a huge boon: Shadow Claw, at a mere 70 Power, is their best single-turn attack. Return/Frustration is already nearly 50% stronger before the 30% -ate bonus, which places it just under twice as strong as Shadow Claw, the only loss being Shadow Claw's crit chance increase. So physical Ghosts have basically doubled their offensive prowess: Mega Banette in particular goes from having mediocre moves propped up by very good Attack to having a shocking amount of offense. Unfortunately many Ghosts are type/Ghost rather than Ghost/type, such as Golurk, holding them back in this particular case. Special Ghosts receive more limited benefit overall, having difficulty actually beating Shadow Ball with a Special Normal move: Gourgeist and Trevenant have access to Nature Power and therefore Tri Attack, and Mismaguius is notable for having access to Hyper Voice, allowing it to bypass Substitutes and inflict appalling damage generally, but no other Ghost is particularly improved in its special offense.
Dark: Physical Dark types don't see quite the same insane boost as Ghosts, since Crunch is widely available and 80 base Power, but there are a surprising number of Dark types whose best option is Night Slash, and for those Pokemon it's exactly as huge a boost as for Ghosts. Surprisingly, Dark special attackers are noticeably stronger overall, as a number of them have access to Hyper Voice, including the likes of Houndoom, Hydreigon, Zoroark (Combine with other Hyper Voice candidates to really mess with your opponent's head!), and if you're willing to use their bad Special Attack scores, Mightyena and Liepard.
Psychic: Psychic is in basically the same boat as Dark in terms of physical offense, and is actually even happier than Dark since Zen Headbutt has a miss chance where Crunch is completely reliable. Special-wise, Psychic can run Gardevoir is a somewhat ambiguous or even mildly dynamic threat: if it doesn't Mega Evolve it hits you with Psychic Hyper Voice, but if it does Mega Evolve it hits you with Fairy Hyper Voice. Additionally, Espeon and Mew get Hyper Voice. (And Chimecho, if you wanted to use it for some reason) Very few special Psychics really benefit from this meta, especially since a lot of them prefer Psyshock for special walls anyway.
Fighting: Unfortunately Fighting types more or less do not learn any Special Normal moves aside from some dubious moves like Round. On the other hand most Fighting types aren't Specially oriented anyway. Physically speaking, Fighting types get a nice boost to power without having to sacrifice accuracy. Overall most Fighting types would rather be type/Fighting than Fighting/type, as Fighting is one of the best offensive types in terms of movelist: Gallade, for instance, is exceedingly glad to be Psychic/Fighting instead of Fighting/Psychic, as swapping out Psycho Cut for -ated Return/Frustration nearly doubles its Psychic Offense where swapping out Close Combat for -ated Return/Frustration would be a less than 10% damage boost. (And also do away with the defense drops, admittedly)
Dragon: While not quite as dramatic as Ghost/Dark/Psychic, Dragon very much appreciates being able to replace Dragon Claw or Outrage for a move that hits harder than Outrage without its disadvantages. Special attacker wise, a whole bunch of legendaries can swap out Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse for Hyper Voice, as can Altaria and Salamence. Other than those ones, Special Dragons don't really benefit.
Ground: Physically speaking Ground basically slaps a Life Orb over Earthquake, which is nothing to scoff at but is one of the weaker boosts. Earthsplosion on Landorus deserves special mention for being hilarious. Special Ground receives limited benefit: several Ground types have Nature Power, but none of them are Ground/type, and Dugtrio is the only Ground type to get Tri Attack, and has godawful Special Attack, and most Ground types oriented towards Special already have the solid Earth Power.
Rock: At last 100% accurate non-terrible-base-Power physical Rock moves! If only for escaping the miss chance, Rock benefits hugely. Special-wise, I think Diancie using Nature Power to get Tri Attack is the only case of a Rock Pokemon with non-terrible Special Attack particularly benefiting. If Snow Warning on Aurorus is ever released, it's something of an option, too.
Steel: Like Rock, the best physical Steel moves all have miss rates, so physical Steel benefits a lot for that reason. Special-wise Steel doesn't really benefit at all: the Steel types that can learn decent-strength Special Normal moves aren't Steel/type. Jirachi is the only one that so much as learns Uproar while being Steel/type!
Bug: Widespread access to stronger-than-Megahorn-without-missing? Yes please. Special attackers-wise, only a few Bugs can learn any of the three best moves, and even fewer learn Uproar! Genesect is one of the only ones to do so with worthwhile Special Attack, and is perfectly pleased to replace Bug Buzz with Bug Techno Blast, but otherwise special attacker Bugs are still not rising above Bug Buzz.
Grass: Physically speaking Grass is more held back by being a bad type than by a bad movepool, and also by the fact that most Grass types aren't physical attackers in the first place, but this could potentially salvage the likes of Cacturne. Power Whip users like Tangrowth are certainly glad to escape the miss chance, though. Special wise... well, Maractus gets Hyper Voice? And if you REALLY want to escape a dependency on Sun support AND wouldn't rather use Giga Drain, then there's no shortage of Grass types with Nature Power to acquire Tri Attack. But overall Grass gets comparatively little out of this meta.
Water: Since Waterfall (Or if you like missing, Aqua Tail) are the overall hardest hitting widespread physical Water moves, physically oriented Water Pokemon like Feraligatr definitely appreciate being able to nearly double their damage output on their STAB. Crabhammer users like Crawdaunt still experience noticeable increase in damage, and appreciate not risking misses. Special attacker-wise, Seismitoad, Vaporeon, Ludicolo, Politoed, Lapras and Wailord all have access to Hyper Voice and other than Wailord little reason to not use it, (Water Spout is still stronger at full or nearly full health, though I'd still consider Hyper Voice over it if I were using Wailord) but beyond that you have to fall back on Uproar if you want to bolster your Water types special attacking potential, which also only has a few potential users. Azumarill gets Hyper Voice if you want to run special Azumarill and don't mind that it doesn't get Moon Blast, I guess. It is worth noting that Manaphy is one of those Uproar users: it could potentially be worth running it in spite of being locked in by using it, at least as long as you don't see anything immune to Water.
Fire: Physical Fire types (Which is a lot of them) are often either basically doubling their damage output (If they would otherwise use Fire Fang or Fire Punch) or acquiring a smaller boost to damage but dropping recoil damage. (Flare Blitz) Sacred Fire users are the only Fire types that don't necessarily appreciate switching, and Entei gets Extreme Speed instead! Special attackers-wise, Pyroar and Flareon both get access to Hyper Voice, potentially redeeming Pyroar, while Typhlosion, Camerupt, and Heatran (And Magcargo, I guess) could conceivably replace their normal Fire STAB with Tri Attack-by-Nature Power. Victini is very glad to be Psychic/Fire, since it already has V-Create for ridiculous physical Fire offense, and Blue Flare for special Fire offense. (Its best Normal Special move is Uproar, though, so whatever)
Ice: Physical Ice of course appreciates replacing its various, mostly not-that-great physical moves with -ated Return/Frustration, or Facade, or whatever, some more than others. Special attacker wise, Glaceon and Jynx both bring Hyper Voice to the table, which is actually stronger than Blizzard with no miss chance (And no Freeze chance, admittedly) and throwing in bypassing Substitutes, and other than that... Special Ice mostly doesn't benefit, in short.
Electric: Physically speaking, there's not many Electric moves that don't suck, and the ones that don't suck are restricted in access (Fusion Bolt, for instance) and/or have substantial recoil. As such physical Electric Pokemon (Of which there are quite a few) experience a huge boost in their offensive utility. Special attacker wise, Magnezone gets Tri Attack and of course Jolteon gets Hyper Voice, and otherwise there's no real improvement. Potentially Rotom, Thundurus, Raichu, or Manectric could use Uproar, if you're willing to accept being locked in, but that's just asking for trouble.
Fairy: Physically speaking, Fairy in theory gets a solid boost and cheers at no longer missing on Play Roughs. In practice, Granbull and Clefable (Specifically, Clefable using Magic Guard and Double Edge, and maybe Belly Drum) are the only physical Fairies of any note that actually Pixilate Normal moves: Mega Mawile and Azumarill are both type/Fairy, not Fairy/type, and Slurpuff just switches from 'Play Rough with Return as "coverage"' to 'Return and hope to god nothing resists Fairy'. (Also, if you were to run physical Xerneas for some reason, it cheers at having, you know, any physical Fairy move at all) Special attacker wise, Hyper Voice is available to Togekiss and Clefable, in addition to the usual Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir usage, and is actually learned by a bunch of other Fairies with terrible Special Attack or that aren't Fairy/type (Not that this helps Fairy), and Florges (And Xerneas and, amusingly, Togekiss) can get Tri Attack through Nature Power. Not many special attackers benefit overall, but for instance Togekiss is faster, overall tougher, and slightly harder hitting than Sylveon.
Flying: Since only two Pokemon lines are pure or primary Flying type, this is largely irrelevant. Nonetheless, Noivern gets a fantastic Aerilated Boomburst, and physical Tornadus has a lot more potential to surprise people. You can give Tornadus Uproar if you want, but it, alas, acquires neither Hyper Voice nor Tri Attack/Nature Power, so its special offense is not meaningfully boosted.
Poison: Physically speaking Poison's straight damage is hugely improved, but it's debatable how much any given Poison type cares given their tendency to try to wear down the opposition. Special wise... Nidoqueen, Nidoking, and Crobat can all run Poisonous Uproar if you want? Poison is not particularly thrilled with this meta.
When talking about Special moves, I am mostly ignoring Uproar, instead focusing on Hyper Voice, Tri Attack, and Tri Attack-through-Nature Power. Uproar is just as strong as Hyper Voice of course, but does not represent a 'free' boost over using an equivalent-strength natural move, since it locks you in upon use. All other widely available special attacking Normal moves are 60 Power or less, and unlikely to represent an improvement unless the Pokemon is already sad and pathetic to the point of being near-unusable. (Such as Dedenne, which almost completely lacks Fairy moves)
It's worth noting that Arceus gets Hyper Voice. I presume it remains banned in this meta, but in any event Arceus should never run Judgment in this meta, unless you're concerned about Soundproof opponents. (You shouldn't be, really) After the -ate bonus, Hyper Voice is stronger, and it punches right through Substitutes.
All Eeveelutions get Hyper Voice, though that's not the same thing as saying all of them offer real value by doing so: Flareon has enough Special Attack to use this, Leafeon does not. Something to keep in mind though.
Anytime I name a specific Pokemon within a type, I have made sure to confirm that its primary type is the relevant one. By the same token, I have not listed examples like Meloetta learning Hyper Voice in Psychic, because I have already checked and determined that it's Normal/Psychic.
Normal: Normal types have somewhat less mediocre offense overall, but are handily outshined by other types regardless. In some cases it's even more dramatic than normal: Noivern pretty much invalidates Exploud as a Boomburst user, being faster, harder hitting, and with Flying type's only disadvantage compared to Normal being that Electric resists it. On the other hand, Mega Kangaskhan is even better than normal, since its primary offense actually is Return/Frustration.
Ghost: Physically oriented Ghosts get a huge boon: Shadow Claw, at a mere 70 Power, is their best single-turn attack. Return/Frustration is already nearly 50% stronger before the 30% -ate bonus, which places it just under twice as strong as Shadow Claw, the only loss being Shadow Claw's crit chance increase. So physical Ghosts have basically doubled their offensive prowess: Mega Banette in particular goes from having mediocre moves propped up by very good Attack to having a shocking amount of offense. Unfortunately many Ghosts are type/Ghost rather than Ghost/type, such as Golurk, holding them back in this particular case. Special Ghosts receive more limited benefit overall, having difficulty actually beating Shadow Ball with a Special Normal move: Gourgeist and Trevenant have access to Nature Power and therefore Tri Attack, and Mismaguius is notable for having access to Hyper Voice, allowing it to bypass Substitutes and inflict appalling damage generally, but no other Ghost is particularly improved in its special offense.
Dark: Physical Dark types don't see quite the same insane boost as Ghosts, since Crunch is widely available and 80 base Power, but there are a surprising number of Dark types whose best option is Night Slash, and for those Pokemon it's exactly as huge a boost as for Ghosts. Surprisingly, Dark special attackers are noticeably stronger overall, as a number of them have access to Hyper Voice, including the likes of Houndoom, Hydreigon, Zoroark (Combine with other Hyper Voice candidates to really mess with your opponent's head!), and if you're willing to use their bad Special Attack scores, Mightyena and Liepard.
Psychic: Psychic is in basically the same boat as Dark in terms of physical offense, and is actually even happier than Dark since Zen Headbutt has a miss chance where Crunch is completely reliable. Special-wise, Psychic can run Gardevoir is a somewhat ambiguous or even mildly dynamic threat: if it doesn't Mega Evolve it hits you with Psychic Hyper Voice, but if it does Mega Evolve it hits you with Fairy Hyper Voice. Additionally, Espeon and Mew get Hyper Voice. (And Chimecho, if you wanted to use it for some reason) Very few special Psychics really benefit from this meta, especially since a lot of them prefer Psyshock for special walls anyway.
Fighting: Unfortunately Fighting types more or less do not learn any Special Normal moves aside from some dubious moves like Round. On the other hand most Fighting types aren't Specially oriented anyway. Physically speaking, Fighting types get a nice boost to power without having to sacrifice accuracy. Overall most Fighting types would rather be type/Fighting than Fighting/type, as Fighting is one of the best offensive types in terms of movelist: Gallade, for instance, is exceedingly glad to be Psychic/Fighting instead of Fighting/Psychic, as swapping out Psycho Cut for -ated Return/Frustration nearly doubles its Psychic Offense where swapping out Close Combat for -ated Return/Frustration would be a less than 10% damage boost. (And also do away with the defense drops, admittedly)
Dragon: While not quite as dramatic as Ghost/Dark/Psychic, Dragon very much appreciates being able to replace Dragon Claw or Outrage for a move that hits harder than Outrage without its disadvantages. Special attacker wise, a whole bunch of legendaries can swap out Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse for Hyper Voice, as can Altaria and Salamence. Other than those ones, Special Dragons don't really benefit.
Ground: Physically speaking Ground basically slaps a Life Orb over Earthquake, which is nothing to scoff at but is one of the weaker boosts. Earthsplosion on Landorus deserves special mention for being hilarious. Special Ground receives limited benefit: several Ground types have Nature Power, but none of them are Ground/type, and Dugtrio is the only Ground type to get Tri Attack, and has godawful Special Attack, and most Ground types oriented towards Special already have the solid Earth Power.
Rock: At last 100% accurate non-terrible-base-Power physical Rock moves! If only for escaping the miss chance, Rock benefits hugely. Special-wise, I think Diancie using Nature Power to get Tri Attack is the only case of a Rock Pokemon with non-terrible Special Attack particularly benefiting. If Snow Warning on Aurorus is ever released, it's something of an option, too.
Steel: Like Rock, the best physical Steel moves all have miss rates, so physical Steel benefits a lot for that reason. Special-wise Steel doesn't really benefit at all: the Steel types that can learn decent-strength Special Normal moves aren't Steel/type. Jirachi is the only one that so much as learns Uproar while being Steel/type!
Bug: Widespread access to stronger-than-Megahorn-without-missing? Yes please. Special attackers-wise, only a few Bugs can learn any of the three best moves, and even fewer learn Uproar! Genesect is one of the only ones to do so with worthwhile Special Attack, and is perfectly pleased to replace Bug Buzz with Bug Techno Blast, but otherwise special attacker Bugs are still not rising above Bug Buzz.
Grass: Physically speaking Grass is more held back by being a bad type than by a bad movepool, and also by the fact that most Grass types aren't physical attackers in the first place, but this could potentially salvage the likes of Cacturne. Power Whip users like Tangrowth are certainly glad to escape the miss chance, though. Special wise... well, Maractus gets Hyper Voice? And if you REALLY want to escape a dependency on Sun support AND wouldn't rather use Giga Drain, then there's no shortage of Grass types with Nature Power to acquire Tri Attack. But overall Grass gets comparatively little out of this meta.
Water: Since Waterfall (Or if you like missing, Aqua Tail) are the overall hardest hitting widespread physical Water moves, physically oriented Water Pokemon like Feraligatr definitely appreciate being able to nearly double their damage output on their STAB. Crabhammer users like Crawdaunt still experience noticeable increase in damage, and appreciate not risking misses. Special attacker-wise, Seismitoad, Vaporeon, Ludicolo, Politoed, Lapras and Wailord all have access to Hyper Voice and other than Wailord little reason to not use it, (Water Spout is still stronger at full or nearly full health, though I'd still consider Hyper Voice over it if I were using Wailord) but beyond that you have to fall back on Uproar if you want to bolster your Water types special attacking potential, which also only has a few potential users. Azumarill gets Hyper Voice if you want to run special Azumarill and don't mind that it doesn't get Moon Blast, I guess. It is worth noting that Manaphy is one of those Uproar users: it could potentially be worth running it in spite of being locked in by using it, at least as long as you don't see anything immune to Water.
Fire: Physical Fire types (Which is a lot of them) are often either basically doubling their damage output (If they would otherwise use Fire Fang or Fire Punch) or acquiring a smaller boost to damage but dropping recoil damage. (Flare Blitz) Sacred Fire users are the only Fire types that don't necessarily appreciate switching, and Entei gets Extreme Speed instead! Special attackers-wise, Pyroar and Flareon both get access to Hyper Voice, potentially redeeming Pyroar, while Typhlosion, Camerupt, and Heatran (And Magcargo, I guess) could conceivably replace their normal Fire STAB with Tri Attack-by-Nature Power. Victini is very glad to be Psychic/Fire, since it already has V-Create for ridiculous physical Fire offense, and Blue Flare for special Fire offense. (Its best Normal Special move is Uproar, though, so whatever)
Ice: Physical Ice of course appreciates replacing its various, mostly not-that-great physical moves with -ated Return/Frustration, or Facade, or whatever, some more than others. Special attacker wise, Glaceon and Jynx both bring Hyper Voice to the table, which is actually stronger than Blizzard with no miss chance (And no Freeze chance, admittedly) and throwing in bypassing Substitutes, and other than that... Special Ice mostly doesn't benefit, in short.
Electric: Physically speaking, there's not many Electric moves that don't suck, and the ones that don't suck are restricted in access (Fusion Bolt, for instance) and/or have substantial recoil. As such physical Electric Pokemon (Of which there are quite a few) experience a huge boost in their offensive utility. Special attacker wise, Magnezone gets Tri Attack and of course Jolteon gets Hyper Voice, and otherwise there's no real improvement. Potentially Rotom, Thundurus, Raichu, or Manectric could use Uproar, if you're willing to accept being locked in, but that's just asking for trouble.
Fairy: Physically speaking, Fairy in theory gets a solid boost and cheers at no longer missing on Play Roughs. In practice, Granbull and Clefable (Specifically, Clefable using Magic Guard and Double Edge, and maybe Belly Drum) are the only physical Fairies of any note that actually Pixilate Normal moves: Mega Mawile and Azumarill are both type/Fairy, not Fairy/type, and Slurpuff just switches from 'Play Rough with Return as "coverage"' to 'Return and hope to god nothing resists Fairy'. (Also, if you were to run physical Xerneas for some reason, it cheers at having, you know, any physical Fairy move at all) Special attacker wise, Hyper Voice is available to Togekiss and Clefable, in addition to the usual Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir usage, and is actually learned by a bunch of other Fairies with terrible Special Attack or that aren't Fairy/type (Not that this helps Fairy), and Florges (And Xerneas and, amusingly, Togekiss) can get Tri Attack through Nature Power. Not many special attackers benefit overall, but for instance Togekiss is faster, overall tougher, and slightly harder hitting than Sylveon.
Flying: Since only two Pokemon lines are pure or primary Flying type, this is largely irrelevant. Nonetheless, Noivern gets a fantastic Aerilated Boomburst, and physical Tornadus has a lot more potential to surprise people. You can give Tornadus Uproar if you want, but it, alas, acquires neither Hyper Voice nor Tri Attack/Nature Power, so its special offense is not meaningfully boosted.
Poison: Physically speaking Poison's straight damage is hugely improved, but it's debatable how much any given Poison type cares given their tendency to try to wear down the opposition. Special wise... Nidoqueen, Nidoking, and Crobat can all run Poisonous Uproar if you want? Poison is not particularly thrilled with this meta.
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Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Something I've noticed is that this metagame will tend to lean towards physical offense, with everyone getting Return and such. Physical walls are probably going to be required here, and I think Aegislash will be quite good because of King's Shield decreasing the power of said Return allowing other things to have an easier time switching in. Just my opinion, I need further testing to determine whether this is true or not.
Also, Kyurem-B and Noivern will probably be my first suspects for banning, because Kyurem-Black with Return is beastly [170 Attack] and Aerilate Boomburst is insane to deal with. Thoughts on the matter?
Also, Kyurem-B and Noivern will probably be my first suspects for banning, because Kyurem-Black with Return is beastly [170 Attack] and Aerilate Boomburst is insane to deal with. Thoughts on the matter?
Aerilate Boomburst was a thing in AAA and just not that powerful. This is a different meta, mind, but I doubt Noivern will break anything.
By the same token, Kyurem Black is replacing Outrage with Return/Frustration. It's definitely powerful, but it mostly exaggerates its existing pattern of having a nasty Dragon attack and everything else is kinda meh. I'd only be concerned because, unlike Outrage, Dragon Return doesn't lock it in, making it more able to predict a Fairy switch and punish it with a different attack.
Next big analysis!
Priority and Explosion
An important implication of universal -ate Abilities is that good priority is much more widespread, and often more powerful to boot! In normal play, priority moves can only be found in Normal, Fighting, Steel, Ice, Ghost, Water, and through the unusual case of Sucker Punch, Dark, but here any non-Normal (Or more accurately non Normal/type) that has access to Quick Attack converts it to its primary type and boosts its strength by 30% besides, as does any Pokemon with the more powerful and faster Extreme Speed. If you don't read the Quick Attack list, at least make sure to double-check for Quick Attack on any Pokemon you implement in a team.
But before I cover, by primary type, which Pokemon have Quick Attack or Extreme Speed, I should discuss Fake Out and Feint. The -ate effect has substantial implications through these moves: Aegislash, for instance, normally has nothing to fear from either move, being immune and resistant so that even Scrappy attackers like Kangaskhan will do barely anything, even to its Blade Forme. But in this meta, Weavile (Which conveniently has both Fake Out and Feint) is a revenge-killer Aegislash has no good answer to: if Aegislash KOs a Pokemon, and Weavile comes out with Fake Out, then Aegislash is faced with this decision: switch or die. I actually have calced it, and Weavile with -ated Fake Out removes 86-101% of Aegislash Blade's health, if it's HP is maxed but it has no Defense boost. "But what about King's Shield?" you might ask. Well, Fake Out and King's Shield are both +3 priority, and Weavile is faster than Aegislash, so much so that even something like a Sticky Web won't drop it behind Aegislash. Even Feint removes 26-32% of its health if it decides to King's Shield (More than 60% if it instead thinks attacking is a good idea), and the only reason Feint doesn't bypass King's Shield normally is that Aegislash is natively immune to its type. In general, Ghosts cannot assume that they are safe from non-Scrappy Fake Out or Feint.
As this is a singles format Feint might seem a bit niche. Most Pokemon aren't running Protect, and Aegislash is the only serious competitor with a Protect variant. Feint remains notable as a poor man's Extreme Speed, also being +2 priority. If you're worried about trying to finish off a faster Pokemon with its own Quick Attack, Feint can be used to assure that, unless they have Feint or Extreme Speed, you will win the priority war. Also note that after the -ate bonus Feint is 1 BP less than a standard priority move like Aqua Jet while having +2 priority and breaking through Protect/Protect variants. So I'll be covering it too.
And remember, if unresisted Fake Out from non-Normal types is nearly twice as strong as what you're used to! It's plausible to do 75% of an opponent's health on just the Fake Out and then finish them with other priority.
On a largely unrelated note, Explosion!
With Generation V having halved Self Destruct and Explosion's power because they no longer ignore half the target's Defense, Explosion is not really all that common to see nowadays. It's just not powerful enough to justify KOing yourself, outside of a limited pool of Pokemon that still get use out of it like Azelf. However, in Metagamiate Explosion almost returns to its pre-Gen V strength for every Pokemon except Lickilicky and Smeargle, (And who ever used Exploding Smeargle anyway? Poor Lickilicky though) between the combination of STAB and the -ate bonus. (It's like 12.5 Power short of its old strength. Close enough) Furthermore, Explosion can now be super effective. So now it can reach horrifying new heights of ridiculous overkill. Keep in mind that a Normal Gem won't boost an -ated Explosion, and the other Gems are currently unreleased. (Also note that they're weaker than in Gen V: unless you plan to attack beforehand and have Sturdy or something, a Life Orb provides the same boost, and you're committing suicide so the HP loss is irrelevant) So let's look at what crazy Explosions you can get in this meta!
Also note that both Fire and Water Explosion (Or Self-Destruct in Wailord's case) can be further boosted by weather if you want to be completely ridiculous.
Note that no Fairy, Dragon, Dark, Flying, or Fighting typed Explosions are possible.
By the same token, Kyurem Black is replacing Outrage with Return/Frustration. It's definitely powerful, but it mostly exaggerates its existing pattern of having a nasty Dragon attack and everything else is kinda meh. I'd only be concerned because, unlike Outrage, Dragon Return doesn't lock it in, making it more able to predict a Fairy switch and punish it with a different attack.
Next big analysis!
Priority and Explosion
An important implication of universal -ate Abilities is that good priority is much more widespread, and often more powerful to boot! In normal play, priority moves can only be found in Normal, Fighting, Steel, Ice, Ghost, Water, and through the unusual case of Sucker Punch, Dark, but here any non-Normal (Or more accurately non Normal/type) that has access to Quick Attack converts it to its primary type and boosts its strength by 30% besides, as does any Pokemon with the more powerful and faster Extreme Speed. If you don't read the Quick Attack list, at least make sure to double-check for Quick Attack on any Pokemon you implement in a team.
But before I cover, by primary type, which Pokemon have Quick Attack or Extreme Speed, I should discuss Fake Out and Feint. The -ate effect has substantial implications through these moves: Aegislash, for instance, normally has nothing to fear from either move, being immune and resistant so that even Scrappy attackers like Kangaskhan will do barely anything, even to its Blade Forme. But in this meta, Weavile (Which conveniently has both Fake Out and Feint) is a revenge-killer Aegislash has no good answer to: if Aegislash KOs a Pokemon, and Weavile comes out with Fake Out, then Aegislash is faced with this decision: switch or die. I actually have calced it, and Weavile with -ated Fake Out removes 86-101% of Aegislash Blade's health, if it's HP is maxed but it has no Defense boost. "But what about King's Shield?" you might ask. Well, Fake Out and King's Shield are both +3 priority, and Weavile is faster than Aegislash, so much so that even something like a Sticky Web won't drop it behind Aegislash. Even Feint removes 26-32% of its health if it decides to King's Shield (More than 60% if it instead thinks attacking is a good idea), and the only reason Feint doesn't bypass King's Shield normally is that Aegislash is natively immune to its type. In general, Ghosts cannot assume that they are safe from non-Scrappy Fake Out or Feint.
As this is a singles format Feint might seem a bit niche. Most Pokemon aren't running Protect, and Aegislash is the only serious competitor with a Protect variant. Feint remains notable as a poor man's Extreme Speed, also being +2 priority. If you're worried about trying to finish off a faster Pokemon with its own Quick Attack, Feint can be used to assure that, unless they have Feint or Extreme Speed, you will win the priority war. Also note that after the -ate bonus Feint is 1 BP less than a standard priority move like Aqua Jet while having +2 priority and breaking through Protect/Protect variants. So I'll be covering it too.
And remember, if unresisted Fake Out from non-Normal types is nearly twice as strong as what you're used to! It's plausible to do 75% of an opponent's health on just the Fake Out and then finish them with other priority.
I'm skipping Normal, since all they get is a slightly stronger Fake Out. To start, no Rock, primary Fairy, Bug, Ground, primary Flying, Steel, Dragon, or primary Ghost can learn Fake Out.
Poison: Toxicroak alone provides a Poison Fake Out.
Electric: Raichu alone provides an Electric Fake Out. (And I guess Pikachu if you care to run Light Ball Pikachu)
Ice: Jynx and Delibird are your only sources of Ice Fake Out.
Psychic: Meowstic, Mew, and Mr. Mime all provide Psychic Fake Out.
Dark: Liepard, Sableye, Scrafty, and Weavile all provide Dark Fake Out.
Grass: Shiftry alone provides a Grass Fake Out.
Water: Blastoise, Ludicolo, and Dewgong all provide Water Fake Out.
Fire: Infernape alone provides a Fire Fake Out.
Fighting: Haryiyama, Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Mienshao, and Medicham place Fighting as king of non-normal Fake Outs.
Poison: Toxicroak alone provides a Poison Fake Out.
Electric: Raichu alone provides an Electric Fake Out. (And I guess Pikachu if you care to run Light Ball Pikachu)
Ice: Jynx and Delibird are your only sources of Ice Fake Out.
Psychic: Meowstic, Mew, and Mr. Mime all provide Psychic Fake Out.
Dark: Liepard, Sableye, Scrafty, and Weavile all provide Dark Fake Out.
Grass: Shiftry alone provides a Grass Fake Out.
Water: Blastoise, Ludicolo, and Dewgong all provide Water Fake Out.
Fire: Infernape alone provides a Fire Fake Out.
Fighting: Haryiyama, Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Mienshao, and Medicham place Fighting as king of non-normal Fake Outs.
Once again, skipping Normal. To start with, no Fairy, primary Flying, primary Ice, or primary Ghost Pokemon can learn Feint.
Fire: Blaziken and Infernape are your only sources of Fire Feint.
Water: Sharpedo alone provides Water Feint.
Grass: Chesnaught alone provides Grass Feint.
Ground: Gliscor and Flygon are your only sources of Ground Feint.
Rock: Kabutops alone provides Rock Feint.
Electric: Raichu and Electivire are your only sources of Electric Feint.
Steel: Skarmory of all things is your only source of Steel Feint.
Dark: Houndoom, Absol, Weavile, and Sableye all provide Dark Feint.
Psychic: Gallade alone provides Psychic Feint.
Poison: Toxicroak and Skuntank are your only sources of Poison Feint.
Bug: Accelgor, Heracross, Pinsir, Yanmega, and Scyther/Scizor all provide Bug Feint.
Dragon: Goodra alone provides Dragon Feint.
Fighting: Hariyama, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Lucario, Medicham, and Mienshao all provide Fighting Feint.
Fire: Blaziken and Infernape are your only sources of Fire Feint.
Water: Sharpedo alone provides Water Feint.
Grass: Chesnaught alone provides Grass Feint.
Ground: Gliscor and Flygon are your only sources of Ground Feint.
Rock: Kabutops alone provides Rock Feint.
Electric: Raichu and Electivire are your only sources of Electric Feint.
Steel: Skarmory of all things is your only source of Steel Feint.
Dark: Houndoom, Absol, Weavile, and Sableye all provide Dark Feint.
Psychic: Gallade alone provides Psychic Feint.
Poison: Toxicroak and Skuntank are your only sources of Poison Feint.
Bug: Accelgor, Heracross, Pinsir, Yanmega, and Scyther/Scizor all provide Bug Feint.
Dragon: Goodra alone provides Dragon Feint.
Fighting: Hariyama, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Lucario, Medicham, and Mienshao all provide Fighting Feint.
Skipping Normal once again. No Ghost or primary Flying pokemon learns Quick Attack. (I mean literally no Ghost, at all)
Like Hyper Voice, Quick Attack is available to all Eeveelutions.
Water: Floatzel, Greninja, Pelipper, and Vaporeon all provide Water Quick Attack. Floatzel should never use Aqua Jet in this meta.
Grass: Sceptile, Leafeon, Shiftry, Virizion, and Shaymin-Sky all provide Grass Quick Attack.
Fire: Blaziken, Charizard, Flareon, Ninetails, Rapidash, Typhlosion, and perhaps most horrifying of all Talonflame all provide Fire Quick Attack.
Psychic: Espeon, Xatu, and Victini all provide Psychic Quick Attack. (Keep in mind the potential to combine V-Create with Psychic Quick Attack to get around V-Create's stat loss)
Dark: Absol, Darkrai, Weavile, and Umbreon all provide Dark Quick Attack.
Dragon: No Dragon Quick Attack exists. However, Rayquaza, Dragonite, and Zygarde all provide Dragon Extreme Speed, which is much better.
Steel: Cobalion alone provides a Steel Quick Attack.
Rock: Terrakion and Archeops are your only sources of Rock Quick Attack.
Ground: Flygon and Gliscor are your only sources of Ground Quick Attack.
Ice: Glaceon and Delibird are it for Ice Quick Attack. Neither of them should ever use Ice Shard in this meta.
Electric: Electivire, Emolga, Jolteon, Raichu, Manectric, Luxray, Raikou, Heliolisk, Plusle, Minun, and Pachirisu all provide Electric Quick Attack. Raichu and Raikou, however, should never bother with Quick Attack because they also get Extreme Speed! (Raichu only in an event variation, mind, so beware its limits)
Poison: Crobat alone provides a Poisoned Quick Attack.
Bug: Accelgor, Illumise, Volbeat, Scyther/Scizor, Pinsir, Masquerain, Yanmega, and Genesect all provide Bug Quick Attack. Genesect shouldn't bother of course because it also gets Bug Extreme Speed.
Fairy: Sylveon alone provides Pixilated Quick Attack. (And it already does that in normal play, and nobody uses it)
Fighting: Hitmontop and Lucario are the only Fighting Quick Attacks available. (Hitmontop should never use Mach Punch in this meta) Lucario doesn't care because it has Fighting Extreme Speed to trump that.
Like Hyper Voice, Quick Attack is available to all Eeveelutions.
Water: Floatzel, Greninja, Pelipper, and Vaporeon all provide Water Quick Attack. Floatzel should never use Aqua Jet in this meta.
Grass: Sceptile, Leafeon, Shiftry, Virizion, and Shaymin-Sky all provide Grass Quick Attack.
Fire: Blaziken, Charizard, Flareon, Ninetails, Rapidash, Typhlosion, and perhaps most horrifying of all Talonflame all provide Fire Quick Attack.
Psychic: Espeon, Xatu, and Victini all provide Psychic Quick Attack. (Keep in mind the potential to combine V-Create with Psychic Quick Attack to get around V-Create's stat loss)
Dark: Absol, Darkrai, Weavile, and Umbreon all provide Dark Quick Attack.
Dragon: No Dragon Quick Attack exists. However, Rayquaza, Dragonite, and Zygarde all provide Dragon Extreme Speed, which is much better.
Steel: Cobalion alone provides a Steel Quick Attack.
Rock: Terrakion and Archeops are your only sources of Rock Quick Attack.
Ground: Flygon and Gliscor are your only sources of Ground Quick Attack.
Ice: Glaceon and Delibird are it for Ice Quick Attack. Neither of them should ever use Ice Shard in this meta.
Electric: Electivire, Emolga, Jolteon, Raichu, Manectric, Luxray, Raikou, Heliolisk, Plusle, Minun, and Pachirisu all provide Electric Quick Attack. Raichu and Raikou, however, should never bother with Quick Attack because they also get Extreme Speed! (Raichu only in an event variation, mind, so beware its limits)
Poison: Crobat alone provides a Poisoned Quick Attack.
Bug: Accelgor, Illumise, Volbeat, Scyther/Scizor, Pinsir, Masquerain, Yanmega, and Genesect all provide Bug Quick Attack. Genesect shouldn't bother of course because it also gets Bug Extreme Speed.
Fairy: Sylveon alone provides Pixilated Quick Attack. (And it already does that in normal play, and nobody uses it)
Fighting: Hitmontop and Lucario are the only Fighting Quick Attacks available. (Hitmontop should never use Mach Punch in this meta) Lucario doesn't care because it has Fighting Extreme Speed to trump that.
No Poison, Grass, Dark, Steel, Rock, Ground, or Ice Extreme Speed is possible without using Arceus. Of course, if Arceus is legal than all Extreme Speed types are accessible to those who care.
Still skipping Normal.
Water: Suicune alone provides Water Extreme Speed.
Fire: Arcanine and Entei both provide Fire Extreme Speed.
Psychic: Deoxys of course provides Psychic Extreme Speed.
Dragon: Rayquaza, Dragonite, and Zygarde all provide Dragon Extreme Speed.
Electric: Raichu and Raikou both provide Electric Extreme Speed. (Raichu only in an event variation, mind, so beware its limits)
Bug: Genesect alone provides Bug Extreme Speed.
Fairy: Togekiss alone provides Pixilated Extreme Speed.
Fighting: Lucario alone provides Fighting Extreme Speed. Arguably you should use this even over Vacuum Wave on a Special Lucario.
Still skipping Normal.
Water: Suicune alone provides Water Extreme Speed.
Fire: Arcanine and Entei both provide Fire Extreme Speed.
Psychic: Deoxys of course provides Psychic Extreme Speed.
Dragon: Rayquaza, Dragonite, and Zygarde all provide Dragon Extreme Speed.
Electric: Raichu and Raikou both provide Electric Extreme Speed. (Raichu only in an event variation, mind, so beware its limits)
Bug: Genesect alone provides Bug Extreme Speed.
Fairy: Togekiss alone provides Pixilated Extreme Speed.
Fighting: Lucario alone provides Fighting Extreme Speed. Arguably you should use this even over Vacuum Wave on a Special Lucario.
On a largely unrelated note, Explosion!
With Generation V having halved Self Destruct and Explosion's power because they no longer ignore half the target's Defense, Explosion is not really all that common to see nowadays. It's just not powerful enough to justify KOing yourself, outside of a limited pool of Pokemon that still get use out of it like Azelf. However, in Metagamiate Explosion almost returns to its pre-Gen V strength for every Pokemon except Lickilicky and Smeargle, (And who ever used Exploding Smeargle anyway? Poor Lickilicky though) between the combination of STAB and the -ate bonus. (It's like 12.5 Power short of its old strength. Close enough) Furthermore, Explosion can now be super effective. So now it can reach horrifying new heights of ridiculous overkill. Keep in mind that a Normal Gem won't boost an -ated Explosion, and the other Gems are currently unreleased. (Also note that they're weaker than in Gen V: unless you plan to attack beforehand and have Sturdy or something, a Life Orb provides the same boost, and you're committing suicide so the HP loss is irrelevant) So let's look at what crazy Explosions you can get in this meta!
Also note that both Fire and Water Explosion (Or Self-Destruct in Wailord's case) can be further boosted by weather if you want to be completely ridiculous.
Note that no Fairy, Dragon, Dark, Flying, or Fighting typed Explosions are possible.
Fire: Camerupt, Heatran, Torkoal, and Magcargo are all sources of a brutally hot Explosion. Be wary of Heatran springing this on you. Fortunately Torkoal is the only one of these lacking a double weakness to pick on, and they're all slow.
Water: Cloyster and Quilfish can release an Explosion of water. I'd be particularly wary of Cloyster, since it can Shell Smash. Additionally, Wailord can employ Water Self-Destruct.
Grass: Exeggutor, Ferrothorn, and Shiftry can all Explode into a frenzy of plantlife. Shiftry is already fast and fond of Exploding, so be wary if you see it and your team is vulnerable to Grass.
Ice: Cryogonal, Glalie, Regice, and Vanilluxe can all burst into an Explosion of cold. Vanilluxe and Glalie are the only ones with enough Speed and Attack where I'd be concerned.
Psychic: Azelf, Mew and Reuniclus are all sources of Psysplosion. You might want to be ready to switch in a Dark type when facing these. Mewtwo can employ Psychic Self-Destruct instead.
Electric: Electrode and Magnezone are both sources of Electric Explosion. If you see Electrode in their team lineup, this is probably why.
Ground: Landorus, Golem, and Claydol are all sources of Earthsplosion. Don't be so sure a Landorus or Landorus-Therian on the ropes can't get in one more KO.
Rock: Gigalith, Diancie, Carbink, Probopass, Regirock, Solrock, Lunatone, and Sudowoodo are all sources of shrapnel-filled Explosions. If you're really afraid of this, you might want to pack Lucario, Steelix, Excadrill, or Cobalion: nothing else doubly resists Rock and there's no way to be immune.
Bug: Genesect and Forretress can both Explode into.... wasps or something I dunno don't think too hard on it. Just keep in mind that if Forretress Explodes and you don't resist Bug it'll be just short of pre-Gen VI strength, not modern wimpiness, and don't expect your tougher Dark, Grass, or Psychic types to survive.
Poison: Garbodor, Wheezing, Swalot, Skuntank, and Muk can all spray horrible goo everywhere by popping themselves. Overall this is arguably less threatening than a Normal explosion, since more types resist Poison than Normal, it just shuffles the immunity onto a different type, and only two types can bring the potential for Super Effective Explosion into play. And it's redundant with their primary offense, instead of providing coverage against Poison and Steel types.
Ghost: Drifblim, Gourgeist, and Gengar can all Explode into otherworldly horror. I'd be wary of Gengar showing up in the enemy's roster: only Normal is immune and Dark resistant, so this is harder to absorb than Normal Explosion, even with Gengar's mediocre Attack stat.
Steel: Metagross, Bronzong, Steelix, and Registeel are all sources of particularly metal Explosions. If you see Metagross in a team lineup, this might be why.
Water: Cloyster and Quilfish can release an Explosion of water. I'd be particularly wary of Cloyster, since it can Shell Smash. Additionally, Wailord can employ Water Self-Destruct.
Grass: Exeggutor, Ferrothorn, and Shiftry can all Explode into a frenzy of plantlife. Shiftry is already fast and fond of Exploding, so be wary if you see it and your team is vulnerable to Grass.
Ice: Cryogonal, Glalie, Regice, and Vanilluxe can all burst into an Explosion of cold. Vanilluxe and Glalie are the only ones with enough Speed and Attack where I'd be concerned.
Psychic: Azelf, Mew and Reuniclus are all sources of Psysplosion. You might want to be ready to switch in a Dark type when facing these. Mewtwo can employ Psychic Self-Destruct instead.
Electric: Electrode and Magnezone are both sources of Electric Explosion. If you see Electrode in their team lineup, this is probably why.
Ground: Landorus, Golem, and Claydol are all sources of Earthsplosion. Don't be so sure a Landorus or Landorus-Therian on the ropes can't get in one more KO.
Rock: Gigalith, Diancie, Carbink, Probopass, Regirock, Solrock, Lunatone, and Sudowoodo are all sources of shrapnel-filled Explosions. If you're really afraid of this, you might want to pack Lucario, Steelix, Excadrill, or Cobalion: nothing else doubly resists Rock and there's no way to be immune.
Bug: Genesect and Forretress can both Explode into.... wasps or something I dunno don't think too hard on it. Just keep in mind that if Forretress Explodes and you don't resist Bug it'll be just short of pre-Gen VI strength, not modern wimpiness, and don't expect your tougher Dark, Grass, or Psychic types to survive.
Poison: Garbodor, Wheezing, Swalot, Skuntank, and Muk can all spray horrible goo everywhere by popping themselves. Overall this is arguably less threatening than a Normal explosion, since more types resist Poison than Normal, it just shuffles the immunity onto a different type, and only two types can bring the potential for Super Effective Explosion into play. And it's redundant with their primary offense, instead of providing coverage against Poison and Steel types.
Ghost: Drifblim, Gourgeist, and Gengar can all Explode into otherworldly horror. I'd be wary of Gengar showing up in the enemy's roster: only Normal is immune and Dark resistant, so this is harder to absorb than Normal Explosion, even with Gengar's mediocre Attack stat.
Steel: Metagross, Bronzong, Steelix, and Registeel are all sources of particularly metal Explosions. If you see Metagross in a team lineup, this might be why.
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Explosion was nerfed in Gen V, not VI. Also, Normal-types get a 30% boost on their Normal moves as well, so Lickilicky and Snorlax (Self-Destruct still has 200 BP) are content.
Whoops, should've double-checked the time it was nerfed. I'll correct the post. I also hadn't thought to check if any non-Normal Pokemon learn Self-Destruct without learning Explosion. I'll edit that in later if I find any examples, maybe even make it its own separate list if there's a lot of them.
But my point about Lickilicky (And I guess Snorlax by extension) is that, for a non-Normal Pokemon, they take the BP, multiply it by 1.5 because they have STAB which they wouldn't have normally, and then multiply that number by 1.3, which totals to just under doubling, ie just short of classic Explosion's damage. Lickilicky (and Snorlax) always got STAB, so the -ate bonus of 30% helps a little, but doesn't bring them to nearly matching their classic strength. Lickilicky would much more appreciate Peakmons, where it's not only getting its Gen IV strength but won't die when breaking a substitute, etc.
But my point about Lickilicky (And I guess Snorlax by extension) is that, for a non-Normal Pokemon, they take the BP, multiply it by 1.5 because they have STAB which they wouldn't have normally, and then multiply that number by 1.3, which totals to just under doubling, ie just short of classic Explosion's damage. Lickilicky (and Snorlax) always got STAB, so the -ate bonus of 30% helps a little, but doesn't bring them to nearly matching their classic strength. Lickilicky would much more appreciate Peakmons, where it's not only getting its Gen IV strength but won't die when breaking a substitute, etc.
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Somebody get on Pandora! I just built a team and I want to play this meta.
Edit: A battle I had against a guy on Pandora. Rock Polish + Weakness Policy Diancie 2stronk
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-metagamiate-917604
Edit: A battle I had against a guy on Pandora. Rock Polish + Weakness Policy Diancie 2stronk
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-metagamiate-917604
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xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Kyurem-B and Noivern
Kyurem-Black: No Ban
Its just not broken. In fact, it wouldn't even be S-rank to me. Why? This is a hyper offensive meta, and kyurem-black has base 95 speed. It doesn't have access to ANY priority, so it really is just not that good. You want to have fast wallbreakers in this meta, there is no point in having slow ones because everything is held back by that speed. As a result, almost any common poke can break kyurem-black or at least dent it well, especially with its bad typing. This means that Kyurem-Black just isin't broken, in fact, its not anything special at all. Banded sets hurt like hell, but are prone to their lack of speed, while scarf sets are beaten by priority and good prediction. The weakness to stealth rock means that it can't just walk in constantly, kill something and get out, since it takes chip damage so quickly. Scarfed variants can be taken advantage of by setup sweepers that resist attacks that they can come in on. So really, Kyurem-Black is just not amazing atm. Its very, very good, but it isin't metagame defining enough that it is broken.
Noivern: On The Fence
OMGOMGOMG FLYING TYPE BOOMBURST HOLY FUCK. Who cares. Look, its extremely good, and it is very metagame defining. On the other hand, you can beat it, especially since they are almost always specs/scarf with switcheroo. LO is the best noivern, even though you arent using switcheroo; you can allocate a slot to hit stuff like heatran used to attempt to tank hits from noivern. Other than that, this thing is actually pretty easily revenge killed. While it is fast and not made of wet paper, it isin't very bulky either. Stuff like unboosted lefties Dnite can beat it with extremespeed. Ice shard users like mamoswine can also beat it, they don't even need the -ate to ohko. So i am really on the fence on this one.
Before we make quickbans, lets let the meta stabilize a bit. Right now the meta is in its infancy, and this is really early to start saying "blahblahblah" neds to be banned. I am not in support of any bans for at least a week or so.
Kyurem-Black: No Ban
Its just not broken. In fact, it wouldn't even be S-rank to me. Why? This is a hyper offensive meta, and kyurem-black has base 95 speed. It doesn't have access to ANY priority, so it really is just not that good. You want to have fast wallbreakers in this meta, there is no point in having slow ones because everything is held back by that speed. As a result, almost any common poke can break kyurem-black or at least dent it well, especially with its bad typing. This means that Kyurem-Black just isin't broken, in fact, its not anything special at all. Banded sets hurt like hell, but are prone to their lack of speed, while scarf sets are beaten by priority and good prediction. The weakness to stealth rock means that it can't just walk in constantly, kill something and get out, since it takes chip damage so quickly. Scarfed variants can be taken advantage of by setup sweepers that resist attacks that they can come in on. So really, Kyurem-Black is just not amazing atm. Its very, very good, but it isin't metagame defining enough that it is broken.
Noivern: On The Fence
OMGOMGOMG FLYING TYPE BOOMBURST HOLY FUCK. Who cares. Look, its extremely good, and it is very metagame defining. On the other hand, you can beat it, especially since they are almost always specs/scarf with switcheroo. LO is the best noivern, even though you arent using switcheroo; you can allocate a slot to hit stuff like heatran used to attempt to tank hits from noivern. Other than that, this thing is actually pretty easily revenge killed. While it is fast and not made of wet paper, it isin't very bulky either. Stuff like unboosted lefties Dnite can beat it with extremespeed. Ice shard users like mamoswine can also beat it, they don't even need the -ate to ohko. So i am really on the fence on this one.
Before we make quickbans, lets let the meta stabilize a bit. Right now the meta is in its infancy, and this is really early to start saying "blahblahblah" neds to be banned. I am not in support of any bans for at least a week or so.
Cloyster @ Focus Sash/ life orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spike Cannon
- Icicle Crash
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
Here is something that I just theorymond up and it seems really good, having a water type 5 hit move that hits 1 point harder than icicle spear. You no longer have to rely on hydro pump and razor shell which is really nice.
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spike Cannon
- Icicle Crash
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
Here is something that I just theorymond up and it seems really good, having a water type 5 hit move that hits 1 point harder than icicle spear. You no longer have to rely on hydro pump and razor shell which is really nice.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Except it's slaviate and not refrigerate, so fairies still deal with it.
Slaking. Just Slaking. Yeah it still kinda sucks, but when you can do this.........
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (52.3 - 61.9%) (BTW THIS IS A SKARMORY AKA STEEL TYPE WITH 140 BASE DEFENSE)
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 810-954 (115 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 388-457 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 393-463 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
NOT EVEN HALF BAD
also the bulk is insane. As long as it is HP invested, a lucario's super effective adamant life orb extremespeed only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO (12 EVs ensure you live the hit)
just sharing.
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (52.3 - 61.9%) (BTW THIS IS A SKARMORY AKA STEEL TYPE WITH 140 BASE DEFENSE)
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 400-472 (99 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 810-954 (115 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 388-457 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 393-463 (93.5 - 110.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
NOT EVEN HALF BAD
also the bulk is insane. As long as it is HP invested, a lucario's super effective adamant life orb extremespeed only has a 6.3% chance to OHKO (12 EVs ensure you live the hit)
just sharing.
Whoohoo! Victory to Metagamiate! No longer do I have to fight the same two guys once each per day! In celebration I am posting my last 'analysis' thingymabop before the meta is truly upon us.
Other noteworthy Normal moves.
Chip Away is stronger than Sacred Sword after the -ate bonus while having identical functionality. Now you have the utility of Sacred Sword on Pokemon other than the Musketeers and Aegislash! How likely this is to matter in this offensively-oriented meta is another matter, but if someone does make a particularly troubling wall you might want to check this list.
Covet switches from being a dumb gimmick Thief that sucks because it's Normal typed to actually being stronger than Thief and potentially in any number of other types! Not to mention always in STAB, as opposed to Thief being used by non-Dark Pokemon.
Crush Claw is actually nearly twice Rock Smash's Power at a respectable 75 Power, albeit with a small chance of missing, but is not worth using in normal play because... Normal type. If you want to lower your opponent's Defense and beat them up in one go, this might be the meta for you!
Here I provide a list of all the Pokemon that learn Double Edge and have either Rock Head or Magic Guard. Beware all these Pokemon!... except Alakazam, don't fear it. There are of course other Pokemon with Double Edge, but for these Pokemon it can represent a free boost over using Return/Frustration.
Flail is Normal Reversal, which is to say it sucks. Not so in Metagamiate, where Flail can be a horrifying reversal of impressive strength! Surprisingly, no Fighting Flail is possible, so Reversal is not actually shunted aside per se. Remember: when you're nearly dead it's 200 BP. That's 80% of an Explosion but you can do it again and again and again!
Last Resort is normally found, if at all, on gimmicky sets like Ambipom with Fake Out+Last Resort+Normal Gem, usually a Normal type for maximum damage. Such a thing is of course held back by the fact that Normal is a terrible type, and none of the users even have Scrappy. In this meta Last Resort is a lot more viable. Arceus means you can have any Last Resort you feel like, other than the fact that it's banned. Castform could potentially be run as Rain Dance+Water Last Resort, or Sunny Day+Fire Last Resort, or Hail+Ice Last Resort. (This implies using Castform though, so probably not) Also note the somewhat gimmicky point that Color Change Kecleon can potentially be used to achieve any Last Resort type potentially, and can learn Fake Out. It would be gimmicky, but you could switch it into an attack, Fake Out, and start Last Resorting.
Skull Bash is a mediocre move overall, but with a Power Herb it becomes a one-time 130 Power, one-time Defense boost move... but it's still Normal type. Except wait, Metagamiate to the rescue!... OK probably nobody is going to actually use it but it's worth commentary anyway.
Thrash is normally a terrible move everybody forgets exists. (In fact, I don't know how many people realize Mega Pinsir can Aerilate it for ridiculous results) In Metagamiate it's even stronger than Outrage, and potentially on types you can't be immune to!... it still locks you in and confuses you of course.
Wring Out contradicts my earlier claim that no other good Special Normal moves exist, being 121 Power against a full health target and not held back by being Normal type and STAB-less in this meta. On the other hand, most users are Grass type... and only five types offer alternate versions of Wring Out at all.
Retaliate is learned by far too many things for me to bother listing them all, but keep in mind it has a lot more potential in this meta.
Echoed Voice. I'm not listing what all learns, because this is too fast-paced of a meta for it to be liable to work out. But feel free to prove me wrong!
Keep in mind Snore is marginally less terrible for your sleeping Pokemon. I have difficulty imagining a Rest-based approach working in this meta, but if you're going to try and they're going to be a Special fighter anyway, it might be better than Sleep Talk's unreliability.
A special note: Cloyster's access to Spike Cannon is actually useful!
Another special note: No Guard Machamp should swap in Mega Kick over Cross Chop, Return, Dynamic Punch, etc, if all you want is raw Fighting power.
700 different Pokemon can learn Facade. So, you know, essentially all of them. Keep it in mind if you are concerned by the possibility of being Burned, or combine it with Magic Guard and a Flame Orb or Toxic Orb... or use Poison Heal Gliscor/Breloom and laugh maniacally. Note that, when inflicted with a major status effect and after being boosted by the -ate bonus, Facade is actually harder hitting than V-Create. As such, I will note the non-Normal Guts users.
As has been pointed out by other posters, -ated Rapid Spin can potentially be an unblockable Rapid Spin. No more switching in Aegislash/Gengar/other Ghosts to prevent the enemy from clearing your hazards.
And last but not least, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact. No need to list who all has them of course, Two main points to keep in mind: firstly, if you ever find yourself considering giving a starter one of the 'elemental Hyper Beams', remember that Hyper Beam will always be -ated into their respective 'elemental hyper beam' type, but stronger. Secondly, virtually any Pokemon can spring a ridiculously powerful -ated move at any time. I don't expect Hyper Beam/Giga Impact to become popular moves per se, but they can always function as nasty surprises.
Other noteworthy Normal moves.
Chip Away is stronger than Sacred Sword after the -ate bonus while having identical functionality. Now you have the utility of Sacred Sword on Pokemon other than the Musketeers and Aegislash! How likely this is to matter in this offensively-oriented meta is another matter, but if someone does make a particularly troubling wall you might want to check this list.
Water: Basculin, Kingler, Feraligatr, and Crawdaunt all provide Water Chip Away.
Fighting: Conkeldurr and Hariyama get Super Sacred Sword- I mean, Fighting Chip Away. In your face Terrakion!
Dark: Scrafty is your sole Dark Chip Away.
Dragon: Just Druddigon. Enough to salvage it? Probably not.
Ground: Rhyperior, Marowak, and Sandslash here with Ground Chip Away. Possibly a reason to pick Sandslash over Excadrill?
Bug: Heracross alone for Bug Chip Away.
Poison: Nidoqueen and Nidoking for Poison Chip Away.
Rock: Rampardos and Tyranitar for Rock Chip Away. Worth it? I doubt it, but who knows!
Fighting: Conkeldurr and Hariyama get Super Sacred Sword- I mean, Fighting Chip Away. In your face Terrakion!
Dark: Scrafty is your sole Dark Chip Away.
Dragon: Just Druddigon. Enough to salvage it? Probably not.
Ground: Rhyperior, Marowak, and Sandslash here with Ground Chip Away. Possibly a reason to pick Sandslash over Excadrill?
Bug: Heracross alone for Bug Chip Away.
Poison: Nidoqueen and Nidoking for Poison Chip Away.
Rock: Rampardos and Tyranitar for Rock Chip Away. Worth it? I doubt it, but who knows!
Covet switches from being a dumb gimmick Thief that sucks because it's Normal typed to actually being stronger than Thief and potentially in any number of other types! Not to mention always in STAB, as opposed to Thief being used by non-Dark Pokemon.
Fire: Arcanine, Simisear, Magmortar, Infernape, Ninetales, Flareon, Emboar, and Typhlosion can all singe their foe's pockets while they pick them.
Water: Azumarill, Vaporeon, Empoleon, Keldeo, Simipour, Samurott, and Manaphy can all leave their enemies drenched and wondering where their item went.
Grass: Roserade,Shaymin, Simisage, Whimsicott, Leafeon, and Lilligant, can all steal their enemy's item... uh... grassily.
Psychic: Espeon, Gothitelle, Grumpig, Meostic, Mew, and Mr. Mime can all filch items telekinetically. Not from Dark types though!
Dark: Umbreon, Zoroark, Liepard, and Mightyena should never run Thief in this meta. If you're going to use it for some reason, take Covet instead!
Ice: Beartic, Jynx, and Glaceon all have icy pickpocketing fingers. Well, not so much fingers...
Fairy: Clefable, Granbull, Sylveon, and Togekiss all have mythical ways of stealing your shirt off your back. Not that this is anything new to Sylveon.
Electric: Dedenne, Electivire, Emolga, Pachirisu, Raichu, and Jolteon all shock their opponents with their amazing thievery.
Fighting: Primeape and the Hitmon-clan all beat you up and take your lunch money. What bullies.
Dragon: Oddly, Latias is the only Dragon with Covet in the entire game, with not even Latios getting it.
Bug: Illumise. I don't imagine anyone cares.
Rock: Sudowoodo. If you care?...
Ground: Sandslash! Another reason to use it over Excadrill! Except probably not really!
Water: Azumarill, Vaporeon, Empoleon, Keldeo, Simipour, Samurott, and Manaphy can all leave their enemies drenched and wondering where their item went.
Grass: Roserade,Shaymin, Simisage, Whimsicott, Leafeon, and Lilligant, can all steal their enemy's item... uh... grassily.
Psychic: Espeon, Gothitelle, Grumpig, Meostic, Mew, and Mr. Mime can all filch items telekinetically. Not from Dark types though!
Dark: Umbreon, Zoroark, Liepard, and Mightyena should never run Thief in this meta. If you're going to use it for some reason, take Covet instead!
Ice: Beartic, Jynx, and Glaceon all have icy pickpocketing fingers. Well, not so much fingers...
Fairy: Clefable, Granbull, Sylveon, and Togekiss all have mythical ways of stealing your shirt off your back. Not that this is anything new to Sylveon.
Electric: Dedenne, Electivire, Emolga, Pachirisu, Raichu, and Jolteon all shock their opponents with their amazing thievery.
Fighting: Primeape and the Hitmon-clan all beat you up and take your lunch money. What bullies.
Dragon: Oddly, Latias is the only Dragon with Covet in the entire game, with not even Latios getting it.
Bug: Illumise. I don't imagine anyone cares.
Rock: Sudowoodo. If you care?...
Ground: Sandslash! Another reason to use it over Excadrill! Except probably not really!
Crush Claw is actually nearly twice Rock Smash's Power at a respectable 75 Power, albeit with a small chance of missing, but is not worth using in normal play because... Normal type. If you want to lower your opponent's Defense and beat them up in one go, this might be the meta for you!
Fire: Blaziken, Entei, and Typhlosion all have fists of flaming fur- I mean, claws of flaming fury. (... not as alliterative)
Grass: Sceptile's furious claws will tear through all the... Steel... walls... never mind.
Ground: Excadrill, Rhyperior, and Sandslash all bring to bear thoroughly grounded Crush Claws. Not a reason to use Sandslash over Excadrill.
Electric: Eelektross will tear you to ribbons with its lightning claws!
Dark: Weavile! It has so many good moves in this meta, and not enough move slots!
Dragon: Druddigon is still struggling to make you want to use it.
Rock: Armaldo is your sole source of Rock Crush Claw, which is kind of sad.
Grass: Sceptile's furious claws will tear through all the... Steel... walls... never mind.
Ground: Excadrill, Rhyperior, and Sandslash all bring to bear thoroughly grounded Crush Claws. Not a reason to use Sandslash over Excadrill.
Electric: Eelektross will tear you to ribbons with its lightning claws!
Dark: Weavile! It has so many good moves in this meta, and not enough move slots!
Dragon: Druddigon is still struggling to make you want to use it.
Rock: Armaldo is your sole source of Rock Crush Claw, which is kind of sad.
Here I provide a list of all the Pokemon that learn Double Edge and have either Rock Head or Magic Guard. Beware all these Pokemon!... except Alakazam, don't fear it. There are of course other Pokemon with Double Edge, but for these Pokemon it can represent a free boost over using Return/Frustration.
Psychic: Alakazam. No, seriously.
Rock: Aerodactyl is living the dream, and Sudowoodo is trying to make you care. Sudowoodo does also get Wood Hammer I guess. Keep in mind Mega Aerodactyl will do more damage with Return/Frustration than Rock Head Aerodactyl does with -ated Double Edge.
Water: Basculin-Blue-Striped and Relicanth offer Watery Double Edges. Basculin is fast enough that it might be worth Scarfing it? And keep in mind Relicanth can put this alongside STAB Head Smash!
Ground: Golem, Marowak, and Rhydon (Not Rhyperior!) all bring to bear Ground Double Edges.
Steel: Aggron and Steelix is it. Don't Mega Evolve Aggron if you're doing this. Like Relicanth, it already has Head Smash, so it's got a lot of destructive potential.
Dragon: Shelgon is as good as it gets. I suppose you could Eviolite it?...
Fairy: Clefable! It's better than you might think but not amazing.
Rock: Aerodactyl is living the dream, and Sudowoodo is trying to make you care. Sudowoodo does also get Wood Hammer I guess. Keep in mind Mega Aerodactyl will do more damage with Return/Frustration than Rock Head Aerodactyl does with -ated Double Edge.
Water: Basculin-Blue-Striped and Relicanth offer Watery Double Edges. Basculin is fast enough that it might be worth Scarfing it? And keep in mind Relicanth can put this alongside STAB Head Smash!
Ground: Golem, Marowak, and Rhydon (Not Rhyperior!) all bring to bear Ground Double Edges.
Steel: Aggron and Steelix is it. Don't Mega Evolve Aggron if you're doing this. Like Relicanth, it already has Head Smash, so it's got a lot of destructive potential.
Dragon: Shelgon is as good as it gets. I suppose you could Eviolite it?...
Fairy: Clefable! It's better than you might think but not amazing.
Flail is Normal Reversal, which is to say it sucks. Not so in Metagamiate, where Flail can be a horrifying reversal of impressive strength! Surprisingly, no Fighting Flail is possible, so Reversal is not actually shunted aside per se. Remember: when you're nearly dead it's 200 BP. That's 80% of an Explosion but you can do it again and again and again!
Water: Basculin, Blastoise, Clawitzer, Carracosta, Empoleon, Feraligator, Kingdra, Kingler, Lanturn, Ludicolo, Lumineon, Luvdic, Octillery, Qwilfish, Seaking, Seismitoad, Vaporeon, Milotic, Whiscash, Corsola, and Gyarados are all sources of Water Flail.
Fire: Flareon, Ninetales, Talonflame, and Torkoal are all sources of Fire Flail.
Grass: Bellossom, Leafeon, Vileplume, Tangrowth, and Meganium are all sources of Grass Flail.
Bug: Escavalier, Forretress, Wormadam, Heracross, Leavanny, Parasect, Crustle, and Pinsir are all sources of Bug Flail. Keep in mind Forretress has Sturdy and Heracross has Reversal.
Rock: Carbink, Diancie, Kabutops, and Sudowoodo are all sources of Rock Flail.
Fairy: Aromatisse and Sylveon are both sources of Fairy Flail. Sylveon can already do this though. Aromatisse's Attack is closer to its Special Attack than you might realize, though.
Psychic: Espeon and Uxie are both sources of Psychic Flail. Espeon's Special Attack is way better than its Attack and Uxie's offense is all-around mediocre, so this is probably not that relevant.
Ground: Donphan, Flygon, Sandslash, Golem, and Stunfisk are all sources of Ground Flail.
Ice: Beartic, Glaceon, and Mamoswine are all sources of Ice Flail.
Dragon: Goodra is it for Dragon Flail.
Electric: Jolteon, Pachirisu, and Raichu are all sources of Electric Flail.
Dark: Umbreon is it for Dark Flail.
Steel: Steelix is it for Steel Flail.
Fire: Flareon, Ninetales, Talonflame, and Torkoal are all sources of Fire Flail.
Grass: Bellossom, Leafeon, Vileplume, Tangrowth, and Meganium are all sources of Grass Flail.
Bug: Escavalier, Forretress, Wormadam, Heracross, Leavanny, Parasect, Crustle, and Pinsir are all sources of Bug Flail. Keep in mind Forretress has Sturdy and Heracross has Reversal.
Rock: Carbink, Diancie, Kabutops, and Sudowoodo are all sources of Rock Flail.
Fairy: Aromatisse and Sylveon are both sources of Fairy Flail. Sylveon can already do this though. Aromatisse's Attack is closer to its Special Attack than you might realize, though.
Psychic: Espeon and Uxie are both sources of Psychic Flail. Espeon's Special Attack is way better than its Attack and Uxie's offense is all-around mediocre, so this is probably not that relevant.
Ground: Donphan, Flygon, Sandslash, Golem, and Stunfisk are all sources of Ground Flail.
Ice: Beartic, Glaceon, and Mamoswine are all sources of Ice Flail.
Dragon: Goodra is it for Dragon Flail.
Electric: Jolteon, Pachirisu, and Raichu are all sources of Electric Flail.
Dark: Umbreon is it for Dark Flail.
Steel: Steelix is it for Steel Flail.
Last Resort is normally found, if at all, on gimmicky sets like Ambipom with Fake Out+Last Resort+Normal Gem, usually a Normal type for maximum damage. Such a thing is of course held back by the fact that Normal is a terrible type, and none of the users even have Scrappy. In this meta Last Resort is a lot more viable. Arceus means you can have any Last Resort you feel like, other than the fact that it's banned. Castform could potentially be run as Rain Dance+Water Last Resort, or Sunny Day+Fire Last Resort, or Hail+Ice Last Resort. (This implies using Castform though, so probably not) Also note the somewhat gimmicky point that Color Change Kecleon can potentially be used to achieve any Last Resort type potentially, and can learn Fake Out. It would be gimmicky, but you could switch it into an attack, Fake Out, and start Last Resorting.
Psychic: Azelf, Celebi, Chimecho, Espeon, Victini, and Mew are all capable of Psychic Last Resort. Note that Mew also has Fake Out, and therefore can re-create the classic build, but unable to touch Dark instead of Ghost.
Electric: Emolga, Jolteon, Minun, Pachirisu, Plusle, and Raichu are all capable of Electric Last Resort. Note that Raichu also has Fake Out, switching to being unable to touch Ground. (And anything with an Ability-based immunity)
Fire: Blaziken and Flareon are the only sources of Fire Last Resort. If Blaziken with Speed Boost is unbanned, you could potentially run it with Protect+Fire Last Resort.
Water: Keldeo, Manaphy, and Vaporeon are it for Water Last Resort.
Grass: Leafeon and Shaymin (Which includes Shaymin-Sky!) are it for Grass Last Resort.
Fairy: Clefable, Granbull, Sylveon, and Togekiss are it for Fairy Last Resort. For Clefable I'd probably just run Magic Guard+Double Edge and Sylveon gets no use out of doing this in normal play.
Dark: Darkrai and Umbreon are it for Dark Last Resort.
Steel: Jirachi and Mawile are it for Steel Last Resort. I'm not sure why you'd use either of them for it. I suppose Mawile could Mega Evolve and Swords Dance?
Ground: Donphan is it for Ground Last Resort.
Ice: Glaceon is it for Ice Last Resort.
Dragon: Latios and Latias both provide Dragon Last Resort. Combine Draco Meteor and Last Resort and hope the enemy has no Fairies?
Bug: Genesect continues to have way too many good moves, providing the only Bug Last Resort beyond Arceus.
Electric: Emolga, Jolteon, Minun, Pachirisu, Plusle, and Raichu are all capable of Electric Last Resort. Note that Raichu also has Fake Out, switching to being unable to touch Ground. (And anything with an Ability-based immunity)
Fire: Blaziken and Flareon are the only sources of Fire Last Resort. If Blaziken with Speed Boost is unbanned, you could potentially run it with Protect+Fire Last Resort.
Water: Keldeo, Manaphy, and Vaporeon are it for Water Last Resort.
Grass: Leafeon and Shaymin (Which includes Shaymin-Sky!) are it for Grass Last Resort.
Fairy: Clefable, Granbull, Sylveon, and Togekiss are it for Fairy Last Resort. For Clefable I'd probably just run Magic Guard+Double Edge and Sylveon gets no use out of doing this in normal play.
Dark: Darkrai and Umbreon are it for Dark Last Resort.
Steel: Jirachi and Mawile are it for Steel Last Resort. I'm not sure why you'd use either of them for it. I suppose Mawile could Mega Evolve and Swords Dance?
Ground: Donphan is it for Ground Last Resort.
Ice: Glaceon is it for Ice Last Resort.
Dragon: Latios and Latias both provide Dragon Last Resort. Combine Draco Meteor and Last Resort and hope the enemy has no Fairies?
Bug: Genesect continues to have way too many good moves, providing the only Bug Last Resort beyond Arceus.
Skull Bash is a mediocre move overall, but with a Power Herb it becomes a one-time 130 Power, one-time Defense boost move... but it's still Normal type. Except wait, Metagamiate to the rescue!... OK probably nobody is going to actually use it but it's worth commentary anyway.
Water: Blastoise, Relicanth, Seaking, and Sharpedo are all sources of Water Skull Bash. Keep in mind Sharpedo gets Speed Boost. Now if only it had Baton Pass...
Grass: Venusaur and Abomasnow is it for Grass Skull Bash, and I'm not sure why either one would run it.
Fire: To get a Fire Skull Bash requires you use Torkoal. That would mean using Torkoal. Not likely.
Ground: Excadrill, Marowak, and Rhyperior all provide Ground Skull Bash. Could be useful on Excadrill?
Ice: Avalugg can stack its ridiculous Defense still further with Ice Skull Bash. Yay?
Rock: Barbaracle is it for Rock Skull Bash. It does benefit from Tough Claws, but so does Return/Frustration.
Poison: Nidoqueen is it for Poison Skull Bash.
Grass: Venusaur and Abomasnow is it for Grass Skull Bash, and I'm not sure why either one would run it.
Fire: To get a Fire Skull Bash requires you use Torkoal. That would mean using Torkoal. Not likely.
Ground: Excadrill, Marowak, and Rhyperior all provide Ground Skull Bash. Could be useful on Excadrill?
Ice: Avalugg can stack its ridiculous Defense still further with Ice Skull Bash. Yay?
Rock: Barbaracle is it for Rock Skull Bash. It does benefit from Tough Claws, but so does Return/Frustration.
Poison: Nidoqueen is it for Poison Skull Bash.
Thrash is normally a terrible move everybody forgets exists. (In fact, I don't know how many people realize Mega Pinsir can Aerilate it for ridiculous results) In Metagamiate it's even stronger than Outrage, and potentially on types you can't be immune to!... it still locks you in and confuses you of course.
Dragon: Garchomp and Salamence should never ever run Outrage in this meta. In the first place Return/Frustration beats it, but they also get -ated Thrash to invalidate it!
Fire: Arcanine, Emboar, Darmanitan, Rapidash, and Typhlosion all provide Fire Thrash. Scarf Darmanitan with this?
Water: Basculin, Ferligatr, Gyarados, Sharpedo, Wailord, and Whiscash all provide Water Thrash.
Grass: Torterra is the only Grass Thrash.
Electric: Eelektross, Thundurus, and Zebstrika are all sources of Electric Thrash. Given this is easier to be immune to than Outrage I probably wouldn't risk it.
Ice: Beartic and Mamoswine are it for Ice Thrash. Ice is a solid offensive type with nothing immune to it, and Scarf Mamoswine outspeeds a lot of things, so this has potential.
Rock: Archeops, Rampardos, Tyranitar, and Tyrantrum are all sources of Rock Thrash. This could theoretically salvage Archeops... if Quick Attack being -ated wasn't a thing.
Ground: Krookodile and Marowak are it for Ground Thrash. Even easier to be immune to than Electric Thrash. Unless you expect to prep the field with a Gravity and then have Thick Club Marowak kill everything, this probably isn't worth it.
Fighting: Primeape is it for Fighting Thrash. Ghost is still immune, but at least you can hit super effectively... but you have to use Primeape.
Poison: Nidoking is it for Poison Thrash. Not recommended.
Flying: Here's an example of physical Tornadus pulling out surprises!... but it's your sole option outside of Mega Pinsir.
Bug: Volcarona and Pinsir both provide Bug Thrash. Keep in mind that Pinsir can Thrash, and then Mega Evolve mid-Thrash to switch to Aerilated Thrash.
Fire: Arcanine, Emboar, Darmanitan, Rapidash, and Typhlosion all provide Fire Thrash. Scarf Darmanitan with this?
Water: Basculin, Ferligatr, Gyarados, Sharpedo, Wailord, and Whiscash all provide Water Thrash.
Grass: Torterra is the only Grass Thrash.
Electric: Eelektross, Thundurus, and Zebstrika are all sources of Electric Thrash. Given this is easier to be immune to than Outrage I probably wouldn't risk it.
Ice: Beartic and Mamoswine are it for Ice Thrash. Ice is a solid offensive type with nothing immune to it, and Scarf Mamoswine outspeeds a lot of things, so this has potential.
Rock: Archeops, Rampardos, Tyranitar, and Tyrantrum are all sources of Rock Thrash. This could theoretically salvage Archeops... if Quick Attack being -ated wasn't a thing.
Ground: Krookodile and Marowak are it for Ground Thrash. Even easier to be immune to than Electric Thrash. Unless you expect to prep the field with a Gravity and then have Thick Club Marowak kill everything, this probably isn't worth it.
Fighting: Primeape is it for Fighting Thrash. Ghost is still immune, but at least you can hit super effectively... but you have to use Primeape.
Poison: Nidoking is it for Poison Thrash. Not recommended.
Flying: Here's an example of physical Tornadus pulling out surprises!... but it's your sole option outside of Mega Pinsir.
Bug: Volcarona and Pinsir both provide Bug Thrash. Keep in mind that Pinsir can Thrash, and then Mega Evolve mid-Thrash to switch to Aerilated Thrash.
Wring Out contradicts my earlier claim that no other good Special Normal moves exist, being 121 Power against a full health target and not held back by being Normal type and STAB-less in this meta. On the other hand, most users are Grass type... and only five types offer alternate versions of Wring Out at all.
Grass: Carnivine, Meganium, Serperior, Tangrowth, and Victreebel.
Water: Octillery, Jellicent, and Tentacruel.
Rock: Cradily, Kabutops, and Omastar.
Poison: Seviper and Swalot.
Ice: Just Jynx, and it has the more reliable Hyper Voice.
Water: Octillery, Jellicent, and Tentacruel.
Rock: Cradily, Kabutops, and Omastar.
Poison: Seviper and Swalot.
Ice: Just Jynx, and it has the more reliable Hyper Voice.
Retaliate is learned by far too many things for me to bother listing them all, but keep in mind it has a lot more potential in this meta.
Echoed Voice. I'm not listing what all learns, because this is too fast-paced of a meta for it to be liable to work out. But feel free to prove me wrong!
Keep in mind Snore is marginally less terrible for your sleeping Pokemon. I have difficulty imagining a Rest-based approach working in this meta, but if you're going to try and they're going to be a Special fighter anyway, it might be better than Sleep Talk's unreliability.
A special note: Cloyster's access to Spike Cannon is actually useful!
Another special note: No Guard Machamp should swap in Mega Kick over Cross Chop, Return, Dynamic Punch, etc, if all you want is raw Fighting power.
700 different Pokemon can learn Facade. So, you know, essentially all of them. Keep it in mind if you are concerned by the possibility of being Burned, or combine it with Magic Guard and a Flame Orb or Toxic Orb... or use Poison Heal Gliscor/Breloom and laugh maniacally. Note that, when inflicted with a major status effect and after being boosted by the -ate bonus, Facade is actually harder hitting than V-Create. As such, I will note the non-Normal Guts users.
Electric: Luxray.
Fighting: Hariyama, Machamp, Conkeldurr, Throh. (Also Tyrogue but why would you do that?)
Fire: Flareon. Unfortunately you'll have to Toxic Orb it.
Bug: Heracross.
Rock: Larvitar. But why would you do this?
Fighting: Hariyama, Machamp, Conkeldurr, Throh. (Also Tyrogue but why would you do that?)
Fire: Flareon. Unfortunately you'll have to Toxic Orb it.
Bug: Heracross.
Rock: Larvitar. But why would you do this?
As has been pointed out by other posters, -ated Rapid Spin can potentially be an unblockable Rapid Spin. No more switching in Aegislash/Gengar/other Ghosts to prevent the enemy from clearing your hazards.
And last but not least, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact. No need to list who all has them of course, Two main points to keep in mind: firstly, if you ever find yourself considering giving a starter one of the 'elemental Hyper Beams', remember that Hyper Beam will always be -ated into their respective 'elemental hyper beam' type, but stronger. Secondly, virtually any Pokemon can spring a ridiculously powerful -ated move at any time. I don't expect Hyper Beam/Giga Impact to become popular moves per se, but they can always function as nasty surprises.
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A bunch of battles:
Me vs. Seismitoad
Ghoul King vs. Thisisafake name
Knuckstrike vs. Scarf Wynaut
Seismitoad vs. Thisisafake name
Me vs. imas234 on Showdown
Click the vs. to go to the battle
Edit: Me vs. Knuckstrike
Me vs. motherlove
Me vs. Thisisafake name
Me vs. Knuckstrike again
Me vs. Seismitoad
Ghoul King vs. Thisisafake name
Knuckstrike vs. Scarf Wynaut
Seismitoad vs. Thisisafake name
Me vs. imas234 on Showdown
Click the vs. to go to the battle
Edit: Me vs. Knuckstrike
Me vs. motherlove
Me vs. Thisisafake name
Me vs. Knuckstrike again
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