Why are other countries so underrepresented on Battle Spot rankings?

Whenever I post... ;_;



There would definitely be a screening process, I know that forum regulars here give free mons to each other anyways. Fortunately, the things that are the biggest hassle to get ahold of are banned (events and ubers) so it makes it easier on everyone.
Very interested in helping out with this kind of thing. I'm not huge in battle spot, but I love giving people what they need...and if it's not going to just collect dust in the PC of someone who just wanted it because it's free, I would be more than willing to work together towards it
 
Yeah, I'm a bit in the middle of "competitive breeder" and "battler" in what I choose to do personally. I actually breed quite a bit on-cart, and I try to appeal to balltism and shit, too, but I don't do things like add useless egg moves because they'll probably just get deleted anyway once the Pokemon is trained up for battle. I also don't really breed for myself but my friends; I've hatched thousands of eggs, and yet have only a small handful of competitive Pokemon for myself to use [which is why I don't go on Battlespot], and I've only had a battle on-cart before because I was "dragged" into it, unlike on Showdown! where I have had hundreds of battles.
(well, my preferred Showdown! server is Pandora, but I digress...)

I also think that there's a very different mentality between the West and the Japanese in their core style of play. From what I've seen, people who ascribe to a more western-style kind of gameplay prefer a style in which "house rules" are set up with things like clauses and whatnot, to make the game more balanced and fair and to each player, as well as to try one's best to remove griefing tactics like Swagger and such. Their most important end-goal seems to be to have fun.

Japanese-style, however, is much more "raw" - they don't seem to be concerned with many made-up rules between players (or "gentleman's agreements") and things to soften the game up; they play the actual game, as it is, using whatever is available to them to try to win. If it's broken, it's irrelevant, as the other player can use it too, if they really want to win. Their most important end-goal seems to be to win using any and all tools they have at their disposal.

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to play; it's just kind of how it is.

I'd also like to think that a reason that the styles are so vastly different, aside from differing cultures, is that neither really tries to reach out to the other barring official tourneys. Showdown!, for example, has only been translated into English and Spanish as far as I know, and nothing else, let alone Japanese. This makes Western-style battling to be harder to actually be aware of in the Japanese playerbase. I doubt that it'd really matter, though; it doesn't seem that a lot of Japanese players would be interested in such a different style of play, even though a lot of them actually do speak decent English due to it being a mandatory class in school, as far as I know. As for the Western world, well, a lot of them don't speak Japanese, and even if they did, since there isn't really a unified "hub" for Japanese play, per-se, it makes it difficult to learn their strategies unless you actually talk to/battle with some.

I dunno if this is just pointless rambling, but eh, it's an interesting topic to me nonetheless.
 
Didn't mean to cast any aspersions on Wi-Fi breeders/collectors earlier. Just wasn't expecting so much of it when I started diving into online trading. And there are places where breejects go back and forth freely, so it's no big deal.

Also, all the suggestions here have been great. I especially like this one:

PGL usage statistics discussion: Not only would it be useful to discuss threads, but they are far less comprehensive than Antar's simulator statistics, largely because they lump all ratings together and iirc popularity doesn't go beyond top 12. For instance, I have unbridled hatred for Greninja, I think it gets undeserved love, yet it's in the top 12 overall :| and Adamant Aegi gets used more than Modest and Brave combined, Timid is used more than Modest in Singles stats. what the fuck. jhsdkjhsdaads.
There's great data there, but it's not always the easiest to make sense of. A general discussion across which we can share knowledge and interpret statistics from various formats would be huge. And it would help track the changing metagames.

That Adamant Aegi is not true for rotation, by the way. There the special Substitue set reigns supreme.

As for the Western world, well, a lot of them don't speak Japanese, and even if they did, since there isn't really a unified "hub" for Japanese play, per-se, it makes it difficult to learn their strategies unless you actually talk to/battle with some.
I know they do have online discussions similar to ones we have through Smogon, etc., but as far as I can tell they're mostly scattered across chat servers (I've seen someone's pictures of a fan-released competitive magazine that includes chat conversations about the early XY metagame). But as pointed out earlier, the physical proximity of players is also a huge benefit there, and likely the reason simulators never became a thing.
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
^^

Oooh, I really like the looks of those. LC also does a lot of that stuff. The only objection that I have for a sample starter teams thread is that the meta constantly changes so it can get outdated easily. I also wouldn't know what to contribute for the sample starters team thread because I tend to be a pretty shit teammaker and I generally throw together "goodstuffs" from my box.
Hmm, I've been having this problem with my own team (stuff I was using months ago, put it aside for breeding, and picked up again this season). Still, when you've got no team and no idea what to do, having SOME piece of information is beneficial. Maybe as a part of the viability ranking or PGL usage statistics page, we should discuss basic common pokemon sets and synergies? Which leads us into...

I would have a lot to say for the viability rankings thread though. You bring up another point that should be its own thread imo:

PGL usage statistics discussion: Not only would it be useful to discuss threads, but they are far less comprehensive than Antar's simulator statistics, largely because they lump all ratings together and iirc popularity doesn't go beyond top 12. For instance, I have unbridled hatred for Greninja, I think it gets undeserved love, yet it's in the top 12 overall :| and Adamant Aegi gets used more than Modest and Brave combined, Timid is used more than Modest in Singles stats. what the fuck. jhsdkjhsdaads.

This is the idea I'm most excited for. The idea of having a common thread to talk about this sounds pretty good. I would imagine this being done in 1 of 2 ways (the second being the easiest):

(1) Something similar to this analysis done over on Nugget Bridge. This breaks relevant pokemon down and refers to PGL statistics to help new members build sets. This is obviously a lot of work, and very time intensive to do properly. Here is an example analysis:



Staraptor

Base stats: 85 HP / 120 Atk / 70 Def / 50 SAtk / 60 SDef / 100 Spd

Typing: Normal/Flying

Somehow the second relevant route 1 bird in this format, Staraptor is one of the game’s better designed competitive Pokémon. While certainly not a Pokémon anyone would accuse of being overpowered — perhaps it is a touch underpowered — it has exactly the tools it needs to in order to fit a small niche it performs better than any other Pokémon and nothing more. Staraptor gets to be competitively relevant almost exclusively because of Final Gambit and its Speed and HP stats, which allow it to assassinate targets with lower or equal max HP to it as long as it doesn’t take damage first by attacking into a Protect or being hit by a priority move. Staraptor has some other useful moves like Brave Bird, Close Combat, and U-turn, which do decent chunks of damage even from an uninvested base 120 Attack. Intimidate also helps Staraptor provide some utility in games it can’t get the Final Gambit off, though it is certainly a weaker option than other Intimidate Pokémon when Final Gambit is taken out of the equation.

Staraptor is an extremely high risk, high reward Pokémon. If it takes a Pokémon out that is more valuable than it is with Final Gambit, it can be game winning. Even just trading 1-for-1 with a Pokémon of equal value can be a big deal for teams that can exploit playing 3v3 instead of 4v4. However, even a slight misplay with Staraptor can prevent it from taking a KO as it goes down, which can easily be game losing. Priority, Protect, and Ghost-types switching in are Staraptor’s bane, but it can make huge plays when it predicts correctly for such a humble-looking Pokémon.

Key Moves: Brave Bird, Close Combat, U-turn, Final Gambit, Double Edge

Typical Builds: The stats are infected with some garbage, so I’m going to be blunt with this one: you shouldn’t care that only 65% of Staraptor used Choice Scarf and only 43.3% of Staraptor used Final Gambit. The viable competitive Staraptor set has Choice Scarf, Final Gambit, 252 HP, and then the player has some decisions to make regarding whether they value a little more power when Staraptor isn’t Final Gambiting or more Speed to creep against other Choice Scarf users like Salamence. U-turn is pretty important and Brave Bird is Staraptor’s offensive fallback without Final Gambit, but the other attacks are a bit of a toss-up in the final slot since they don’t tend to get used very much.
(2) A Q&A format. People post questions about / questionable PGL usage statistics, and the community offers advice and attempts to answer the question. This would be easier to get started with, but could very easily die off if no one asks anything or answers questions.

Didn't mean to cast any aspersions on Wi-Fi breeders/collectors earlier. Just wasn't expecting so much of it when I started diving into online trading. And there are places where breejects go back and forth freely, so it's no big deal.
No no, I didn't interpret your earlier comment like that at all. :) I was just trying to examine the motivations of breeders / collectors, as distinct from breeders / competitors. I don't think I was so clear with that in my original post. The community takes some getting used to, and I'll totally admit that I'm a part of the problem too, lol. If you follow the link in my sig to my trade shop, you'll see the main point of it is to collect dream ball female pokemon with HAs, with very little thought to their overall competitive value, lol. A collection of pokemon I'll probably never battle with. ^_^
 
So regarding forum activity and whatnot I was thinking that the Smogon Leaderboard thread could do with a revival, it's never updated anymore and is a great way to spark some (friendly) competition and gives more incentive to climb the ladders. I'd be up for running a new thread myself for current seasons if people think it's worth it, let me know what you think. I also fully support the idea of viability ranking threads as they're a great resource for newcomers to get into a metagame.
 

Hulavuta

keeps the varmints on the run
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
EnGarde: I really like that idea, we've had a threatlist thread but that is definitely more in-depth. I think it would be best suited for an article though, somewhat like the community threatlist articles. (It's not exactly a threatlist I know, but it's a similar format in the whole small snippets of info for a Pokemon way) If we're serious about this we can probably get it going in C&C.

As for a SQSA thread and the Leaderboard never being updated, unfortunately that's just due to this forum being extremely undermodded. Theorymon has been super helpful with everything we've asked but he's having computer issues and can't be around that much, and regardless one mod is really not enough anyway. ...I'm not even sure who is in charge of this forum now that Jabba is gone .__.
 

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Hey guys, I thought of a great idea and I've written an OP that I will post after work. I'd like to bring Community Create A Team to this forum so we can build a team together and play on the in-game ladder. I made a pledge to provide any mons people may need. I've selected triples so we can learn more about the meta. Details will come later but rest assured that it will be less structured than CCATs of other tiers and focused on community.

I am also working on an OP for a thread to discuss the PGL stats. Viability rankings will take longer.

EDIT: While I agree with your post Hula, I am of the opinion that we should take matters into our own hands and create the resources ourselves. There is occasionally rabble and spam here but in this instance it is in our favor the forum is less trafficked so we can do what we want without risk of thread locks and we are less at risk of seeing garbage. Regardless of rating, all of the forum regs I've observed put thought and quality into their posts so we can just make everything ourselves without worrying about subpar posts.

For instance, instead of waiting for mods to edit posts for the leaderboard thread, perhaps we can host a Google Docs offsite with leadership rankings that a select few trusted users can edit.
 
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Gonna hijack this thread in to a kind of follow-up question, why are there no ladder for VGC on BattleSpot? It feels like that would boost the people playing in BattleSpot skyhigh...
Yep, there was previously.

I'd imagine they switched it up with 2014 VGC coming to its conclusion, and we'll likely see it return with the 2015 ruleset. Still, I agree that they should maintain one permanently along with whatever one-off ruleset they want to provide that season (inverse, no-item singles, etc).

EDIT -- Woops. Didn't mean to respond to this so late. For some reason an alert took me to it as if it were the last post in the thread.
 
I'd also like to think that a reason that the styles are so vastly different, aside from differing cultures, is that neither really tries to reach out to the other barring official tourneys. Showdown!, for example, has only been translated into English and Spanish as far as I know, and nothing else, let alone Japanese. This makes Western-style battling to be harder to actually be aware of in the Japanese playerbase. I doubt that it'd really matter, though; it doesn't seem that a lot of Japanese players would be interested in such a different style of play, even though a lot of them actually do speak decent English due to it being a mandatory class in school, as far as I know. As for the Western world, well, a lot of them don't speak Japanese, and even if they did, since there isn't really a unified "hub" for Japanese play, per-se, it makes it difficult to learn their strategies unless you actually talk to/battle with some..
This totally makes sense. Similar to what you said concerning a lot of Japanese players might not be interested a such a different style of play, most of the western community (as it currently is centered around smogon) would likely be uninterested in the no-house-rules style, most evident by the low traffic here/the fact that this is the site that more or less sets the house rules. However, I'd be really surprised if there weren't at least some Japanese players utilizing their mandatory English on Showdown, but I'd definitely find the language barrier daunting if I were trying to play in Spanish or some other language I had learned a bit in school.

I know there's no equivalent hub in Japan (I think) but maybe there might be ways to reach out to some of the top Japanese Spot players (via email, or PM or IRC etc) and maybe do an interview, if a translator gamer can be found to facilitate/prep questions? I don't know if we'd want Smog style, or some other format, but it might be enlightening/worth looking into?
 
Hey guys! I am playing a lot of battle spot singles too and have a lot of time and motivation for helping too! So if there comes something like pgl usage statistics discussing i will help to understand the common sets there are in battlespot-land.
 

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Hey guys! I am playing a lot of battle spot singles too and have a lot of time and motivation for helping too! So if there comes something like pgl usage statistics discussing i will help to understand the common sets there are in battlespot-land.
This is in the works. In the meantime, people are doing a great job of dissecting Triples videos and statistics in the CCAT thread.
 
I have a YouTube with the primary focus on Battle Spot Single helping ppl get into it with a team build guide and my live commentary games. Err I'm sure montsegur, coolstorybrobat, and some others can describe it better as I really feel like I'm violating something when maybe I'm not :[
Anyway, my goal on YouTube is to other than rising the ranks of Battle Spot, is to also help ppl get into the format especially since as said earlier in this topic that many non-JPN just don't focus on Battle Spot formats ro simply don't have the resources.

Ppl who know me can elaborate more on what I do and my activity as I'm sure the guys who don't know me from Showdown will think I'm just advertising :[
 

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