Tier Shift

[megacrazyhand]

(facepalm)

Avalugg outclasses Alomolola for using mirror coat. when somebody says ___>___ it means that one is better.

I'll be honest, mirror coat Avalugg isn't something I would of thought of, so just out of curiosity what gave you the idea? Also, how has Ava been functioning over all?

 

[insanelegend]

I was given they idea when someone else owned me with it, so it isn't my idea. I like Avalugg because even though Ice is a terrible typing, access to Rapid Spin, reliable recovery, phazing, and Sturdy make it great. Sturdy works well with Mirror Coat and Roar, and phazing is something it has over Alomomola. It is also incredibly bulky, so STAB super-effective attacks can do around 30% on the physical side ( depending on the attacker ). It also has Rapid Spin over Mola, and every good team ( except some Hyper Offensive teams) should be able to clear hazards. It also hits pretty hard and I can trust it to take most physical hits. That is why I enjoy using Avalugg and find it effective.

Some calcs done with Tier Shift Stats:

4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 360-426 (115.3 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- 90.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 228-270 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 141-166 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO

4 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 230-272 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 198-234 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[xJownage]

I'll be honest, mirror coat Avalugg isn't something I would of thought of, so just out of curiosity what gave you the idea? Also, how has Ava been functioning over all?

Here is a battle I had with Rumors for the OMPL. Avalugg and Hippowdon make a great physical core. Avalugg > Alomola for using Mirror Coat

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-147985329

Alomolola can also use Mirror Coat

(facepalm)

Avalugg outclasses Alomolola for using mirror coat. when somebody says ___>___ it means that one is better.

:L read the posts above before thinking it was my opinion.

 

[megacrazyhand]

I was given they idea when someone else owned me with it, so it isn't my idea. I like Avalugg because even though Ice is a terrible typing, access to Rapid Spin, reliable recovery, phazing, and Sturdy make it great. Sturdy works well with Mirror Coat and Roar, and phazing is something it has over Alomomola. It is also incredibly bulky, so STAB super-effective attacks can do around 30% on the physical side ( depending on the attacker ). It also has Rapid Spin over Mola, and every good team ( except some Hyper Offensive teams) should be able to clear hazards. It also hits pretty hard and I can trust it to take most physical hits. That is why I enjoy using Avalugg and find it effective.

Some calcs done with Tier Shift Stats:

4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 360-426 (115.3 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 152-180 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- 90.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 228-270 (53.7 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 141-166 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 30.9% chance to 2HKO

4 Atk Avalugg Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 230-272 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 198-234 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Definitely something I have to try out, thank you :D. I was trying to make sand work a while back, but I may have taken the wrong approach to it. This approach may work much better :).

 

[TyranitarKnight]

I think this meta should be updated so that PU Pokemon get +20 stat boosts.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

I think this meta should be updated so that PU Pokemon get +20 stat boosts.

PU isnt an official tier, so chances of that happening are pretty slim

 

[insanelegend]

Alright, just posting to say that the new Tier Shift Viabilty Ranking thread is up and running. I still need your help for ranking, so head on over to share your opinion.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-shift-viability-rankings.3514386/#post-5654731

 

[Adrian Marin]

So after a lot of testing, I can say that most non-OU offensive threats in this metagame are generally poor at stallbreaking. This means that using the same formula we normally use in OU while accounting for lower-tier threats that fare well in the current metagame works very well.

Here's what i've been using:

not a stall team

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Taunt
- Bolt Strike
- Will-O-Wisp

Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy

Noctowl @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Night Shade

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Roar
- Earthquake

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
- Wish

So i'm just going to explain everything in bulletpoint format since i'm lazy.

• Alomomola wish passes, pivots, spreads burns, and walls threats like Excadrill
• Amoonguss beats many threats such as Belly Drum Azumarill
• Mega Aggron checks most physical attackers, Mega Gardevoir, and counters Swords Dance Mega Pinsir and Mega Mawile
• Noctowl is an excellent special wall boasting 115/111 special bulk. It has a highly spammable attacking move in Night Shade. Additionally, it walls Landorus extremely well.
• Victini counters threats like Sigilyph, Jolly Mega Medicham, non-Knock Off Mega Mawile and Mega Gardevoir
• Aromatisse appreciates a +10 boost to its stats, as it allows it to wall the likes of Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham, Malamar and most Dragon-types.

 

[insanelegend]

The best wallbreakers I have found are Choice Band Sawk, Gothitelle, Taunt Mismagius, and Diggersby

 

[a__man]

So after a lot of testing, I can say that most non-OU offensive threats in this metagame are generally poor at stallbreaking. This means that using the same formula we normally use in OU while accounting for lower-tier threats that fare well in the current metagame works very well.

Here's what i've been using:

not a stall team

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Taunt
- Bolt Strike
- Will-O-Wisp

Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy

Noctowl @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Night Shade

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Roar
- Earthquake

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Mirror Coat
- Wish

So i'm just going to explain everything in bulletpoint format since i'm lazy.

• Alomomola wish passes, pivots, spreads burns, and walls threats like Excadrill
• Amoonguss beats many threats such as Belly Drum Azumarill
• Mega Aggron checks most physical attackers, Mega Gardevoir, and counters Swords Dance Mega Pinsir and Mega Mawile
• Noctowl is an excellent special wall boasting 115/111 special bulk. It has a highly spammable attacking move in Night Shade. Additionally, it walls Landorus extremely well.
• Victini counters threats like Sigilyph, Jolly Mega Medicham, non-Knock Off Mega Mawile and Mega Gardevoir
• Aromatisse appreciates a +10 boost to its stats, as it allows it to wall the likes of Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham, Malamar and most Dragon-types.

Quick question: how do you get past CM Lando?

My team's almost the same... except with Sableye and Gligar instead of Victini and Noctowl (and a few different EVs and moves).

 

[xJownage]

Adrian Marin calls this a not-stall team lol. Its not nearly as stallish as most of his teams to be fair. So as mentioned by a__man, how do you deal with cm lando? It literally 6-0's you with rocks up...also what will you do to beat LO SD diggersby, which can OHKO your mega aggron through filter if its adamant and always ohkos with rocks up even if jolly:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 363-429 (103.4 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 330-392 (94 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Adrian Marin]

Quick question: how do you get past CM Lando?

My team's almost the same... except with Sableye and Gligar instead of Victini and Noctowl (and a few different EVs and moves).

Noctowl is actually able to Toxic Lando and take a +1 Focus Blast: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Noctowl: 204-240 (47 - 55.2%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recover

Adrian Marin calls this a not-stall team lol. Its not nearly as stallish as most of his teams to be fair. So as mentioned by a__man, how do you deal with cm lando? It literally 6-0's you with rocks up...also what will you do to beat LO SD diggersby, which can OHKO your mega aggron through filter if its adamant and always ohkos with rocks up even if jolly:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 363-429 (103.4 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 330-392 (94 - 111.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Tbf, almost nothing beats CM Lando with rocks up besides Cresselia, while SD Diggersby is walled by very few Pokemon such as Gligar.

 

[a__man]

I've been trying an annoying Taunt+Wisp+DB+Shadow Ball Mismagius as a specific counter for Diggersby and Sigilyph, though not on my stall team. And even if neither of them are there it takes out at least one of the opponents (instead of DB, NP or Perish Song is also useful).

 

[megacrazyhand]

So just to bring this up, if we were to allow ubers with the -15 stat drop Aegislash would have a new spread of 45/35/135/35/135/45 and if Mega Mawile does get banned (I'm a bit out of touch with how the vote is leaning but lets talk with a hypothetical here) its new stat spread with a -15 would be 35/90/110/40/80/35. I only bring this up because I remember a list of ubers a few pages back that applied a minus 15 stat drop. So I'm just curious, does anyone else think the -15 to Aegislash would make it much easier to handle? And I guess to MMawile as well assuming that it will get banned (even if that is an erroneous assumption to make right now).

 

[Throbulator36]

So just to bring this up, if we were to allow ubers with the -15 stat drop Aegislash would have a new spread of 45/35/135/35/135/45 and if Mega Mawile does get banned (I'm a bit out of touch with how the vote is leaning but lets talk with a hypothetical here) its new stat spread with a -15 would be 35/90/110/40/80/35. I only bring this up because I remember a list of ubers a few pages back that applied a minus 15 stat drop. So I'm just curious, does anyone else think the -15 to Aegislash would make it much easier to handle? And I guess to MMawile as well assuming that it will get banned (even if that is an erroneous assumption to make right now).

If mawilite got banned mawile would freefall to NU at terminal velocity. This means that instead of -15 mega mawile would get +15 lending a new stat spread of: 65/120/140/70/110/65. Yeah. If mawilite gets banned and we allow Ubers mawilite(and Kangaskanite/Lucarionite/Gengarite) would have to stay banned.

 

[urdrakonis]

I'd rather play TS ubers where everything below gets an additional +5 boost. Waving around a 45 base HP Aegis is just too painful for me lol.

 

[Throbulator36]

I'd rather play TS ubers where everything below gets an additional +5 boost. Waving around a 45 base HP Aegis is just too painful for me lol.

Again, banned mega stones would have to stay banned anyway

 

[megacrazyhand]

If mawilite got banned mawile would freefall to NU at terminal velocity. This means that instead of -15 mega mawile would get +15 lending a new stat spread of: 65/120/140/70/110/65. Yeah. If mawilite gets banned and we allow Ubers mawilite(and Kangaskanite/Lucarionite/Gengarite) would have to stay banned.

Sorry, didn't realise that. On the upside, plus 15 regular Mawile would be fun (even if it wouldn't be good per say).

 

[xJownage]

I WANT THAT MAWILE SO BAD

srsly, 120 + huge power means 372 * 2 attack, making it have an attack stat of 744. With Even more bulk (65/140/110) it would just wreck shit. Then again it might be good to beat alomomola (Loljk)

 

[yoman5]

Just gonna put this here:

DURANT has an effective base attack stat of 203 with hustle. people need to be less dismissive of this thing, base 119 speed with 203 base attack is insane, and after a hone claws it goes to an insane 757 attack. This is bonkers.

 

[urdrakonis]

Been getting back into this after a rather lengthy absence. I gotta say, SubRoost Kyurem and Sawk are amazing.

Kyurem just has such immense special tankiness, so hard to take down even with SR. It also hits really hard with Ice / Ground coverage.

Sawk is excellent as well. Its choice sets are great but I'm thinking of trying something a bit more gimmicky like an Ebelt lure.

 

[a__man]

I WANT THAT MAWILE SO BAD

srsly, 120 + huge power means 372 * 2 attack, making it have an attack stat of 744. With Even more bulk (65/140/110) it would just wreck shit. Then again it might be good to beat alomomola (Loljk)

With that logic imagine Mega Kanga... 120/115/115 bulk with 140 attack and 155 speed.

Also, has anyone tried Slaking and Regigigas? How are they?

 

[thdhted]

With that logic imagine Mega Kanga... 120/115/115 bulk with 140 attack and 155 speed.

Also, has anyone tried Slaking and Regigigas? How are they?

they're fairly decent, but regigigas is better due to slaking killing momentum completely. If regigigas can wait out the slow start turns it can become a massive threat.

 

[Bmw6446]

Shamelessly stolen & updated from PureQuestion ’s original OP

Welcome to XY Tier Shift!

This metagame is all built on a very simple concept: All pokemon below OU have all their base stats increased by 5 per tier below OU.

• Pokemon in UU/BL get a boost of 5 to each stat.
• Pokemon in RU/BL2 get a boost of 10 to each stat.
• Pokemon in NU/BL3 get a boost of 15 to each stat.
• Pokemon that were previously restricted to 1 HP are no longer restricted if they got a boost to base HP (in other words, Shedinja's boost is intentional)
• A list of Pokemon by tier can be found here

And that's basically how that works. It's easy to find some incredible examples, but let's just look at some interesting cases; I'm going to try to use some... infamous examples, to better illustrate my point.

Even pokemon mostly regarded as jokes down in NU sound pretty intimidating with +15 to all stats:

• Chatot may have that nasty SR weakness and lack of bulk, but it feels significantly scarier when it's backed by 106 base speed, and 107 base special attack.

But we can get better still.

• Imagine Smash Pass from a 70/99/120/129/90/67 Gorebyss! Hell, you might not even need to pass!

But that's just NU; +15 to all stats is a crazy amount; let's see what's fun in RU:

• Sharpedo. 130 base attack. 105 base special attack. 105 base speed and Speed Boost? Everything is gonna be hurting.
• Hitmonlee. Great power and decent speed backed by strong coverage moves, with the buffed Knock Off and STAB priority, makes for a very threatening Fighting-type.

Maybe defense is more your style, Alomomola, a pokemon that already sees some occasional use in OU, gets a boost to its already very bulky stats giving it a whopping 175 base HP and a solid 90 base defense!

Or perhaps UU is more what you're looking for?

• Hydreigon. 130/110 mixed attack stats? A great set of resistances and solid bulk? A cheeky 103 base speed? Eat your heart out, Garchomp.
• Mew, Celebi, Jirachi and Victini all have their solid base 100 spreads boosted to a much nicer solid 105 spread, pushing them up a speed tier and adding to their respectable bulk.
• Porygon-2 gets a nice boost to its already great defenses, up to 90/95/100, with a nice boost to its special attack.

The possibilities go on and on from there; it's a very interesting metagame to play; one where top threats in OU are usurped by pokemon they previously outclassed, it turning out that all they needed was a little boost to their stats.


This metagame follows the OU banlist and standard clauses. Thus, the list of banned Pokemon, abilities, items and moves are:



Mega Evolutions will work like this:



Last gen we saw Tier Shift develop as an even fiercer incarnation of the standard metagame’s weather wars, since abusers from lower tiers such as Sawsbuck, Victreebel, and Stoutland received massive stat boosts. Now, with weather abilities nerfed, former Ubers dropped down, and the introduction of Mega evolutions, how will the metagame develop? The only way you can find out is by playing! TS was undoubtedly one of the most popular Other Metagames last generation around and earned a “permanent” (read: more than one month) ladder due to its player base. With a ton of viable playstyles and even more viable Pokemon, what’s not to love about Tier Shift?

What about NFE Pokemon?

 

[Olaph Olaffsson]

NFE Pokémon are NU unless otherwise stated in the tiering lists. They get +15.