ORAS General Discussion - Mark 2 - Spoilers Inside

[Stellar]

To clarify: competitive discussion is discussing a Pokémon's future success in any Smogon or Nintendo formats (especially regarding a Pokémon's Uber status). e.g., "Mega Salamence will be OP because 252/252+ Hippowdown has a 97.7% chance to be 2HKOed after SR and Leftovers by 252+ Aerilate Double-Edge assuming Mega Salamence has an attack stat of 170!" Things involving damage calculations are a big "NO" as a rule of thumb. The OU forum mods disallowed this speculation based on the limited information we have available to us, so it makes even less sense for that sort of discussion to occur in OI (a forum that is a casual's haven of sorts).

Saying something like "Mega Sableye will be really good in-game because it doesn't have to worry about status" is fine. We have enough information to make this sort of statement — for example, Mega Sableye has Magic Bounce, so it doesn't have to worry about status and will save you tons of ¥ on Full Heals and Lava Cookies.

Hopefully this clears things up.

 

[antemortem]

I'm not sure if we'll even GET the safari zone. It's been a retired feature since BW and it does conflict with the convenient, easy nature of the recent games. Instead, I'd expect it to be replaced with the Friend Safari.

As unlikely as I want this to be, it's very plausible. The Safari Zone's location is pretty prime for something like the Friend Safari, especially since it's near the edge of the land-portion of Hoenn. Then again, it could just as easily be an extension of Mossdeep or take advantage of the landspace that Sootopolis didn't use/wasn't available to us in RSE.

 

[Lady Vader]

Spread attacks are (Edit: have been) rare before Norman, so Trainer hordes might be a better challenge if we get them this early. Expecting a level gap of around 20, they might still get tough if you have to fight with single target attacks.

Well, you can catch a Surskit that knows Bubble on Route 102. Bubble hits all targets in Horde Battles and received a decent buff from 20 Base Power to 40 (same as Water Gun) in X and Y. The downside is that you will have to use Surskit.
Also, in every game since its introduction, we get the TM for Struggle Bug very early (when you beat Burgh in Black, White, Black 2, and White 2 and you can buy it in Lumoise City's Southern Pokémon Center in X and Y). A 50 Base Power Special Bug-type move would be good for those Poocheyna.

 

[stage7_4]

It's kind of interesting that trainer hordes were added to a Ruby and Sapphire remake, because this would mean that they've used Hoenn remakes to expand a different battle format twice.

To clarify, Ruby and Sapphire introduce double battles, but they weren't really used that much except for the occasional twins-trainer and the psychic gym. After dropping off for the Leafgreen and Firered remakes, they came back with a vengeance in Emerald, which had a LOT more double battles due to adding the "spotted by two trainers" scenario.

Now XY introduced hordes and ORAS introduces trainer hordes.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Well, you can catch a Surskit that knows Bubble on Route 102. Bubble hits all targets in Horde Battles and received a decent buff from 20 Base Power to 40 (same as Water Gun) in X and Y. The downside is that you will have to use Surskit.
Also, in every game since its introduction, we get the TM for Struggle Bug very early (when you beat Burgh in Black, White, Black 2, and White 2 and you can buy it in Lumoise City's Southern Pokémon Center in X and Y). A 50 Base Power Special Bug-type move would be good for those Poocheyna.

Are there any relevant cases of rare pokémon being easily available in the third games/remakes? Having Surskit being more easily found would be a nice resort against early hordes.

(...) they came back with a vengeance in Emerald, which had a LOT more double battles due to adding the "spotted by two trainers" scenario.

Weirdly enough, they dropped that scenario after Emerald. I wonder why, it was pretty fun.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

Thanks, Stellar, I was going to complain about it when I couldn't because of the lock.

Btw, someone said about the Battle Frontier, the part on the map where it is is covered by clouds, the same way as Kiloude was covered by them pre-XY release.

That would be me. I noticed the fogged out area on the map and had the same idea too. Though I didn't know about Kiloude City. I just want to show up Scott's smarmy face one more time. GF please understand.

 

[antemortem]

That fogged out area is most obviously the Battle Frontier or whatever altered rendition these games will offer; the real question is what's at the top of the map shrouded in mystery. ;o

 

[KingHeracrossTheBug]

I don't think Trainer Hordes would appear before you have two badges. It just doesn't seem right to throw a freaking horde on your face after your first badge when you just tried to rescue a damn Wingull. That'll be awesome though. Also iirc you have Geodude's Magnitude pretty early (level 16) to deal with hordes, so I wouldn't be surprised if your first Trainer Horde were on the Museum at Slateport City or even at the beach before Slateport.

 

[stage7_4]

It's probable that they start showing up at the volcano showdown between Magma and Aqua (that's at least three badges in, with a long stretch before the fourth badge). In the original they had visible poochyena fights between Aqua and Magma, with the opposing Leader in a three vs one scenario.

I'd bet money that the screenshot we got is from there. I'd also bet that trainer hordes are story point battles only, since we have yet to see evidence to the contrary.
EDIT: NOPE! It's from what appears to be the Lillycove base.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

Mega Lopunny if obtainable before the Elite 4, can actually wallop 4/5 of them. Sydney, Glacia, Phoebe, and Steven couldn't wall it if they tried. Unless Phoebe still uses protect PP stall dusklops, but even then you can just smack it around with return.

 

[stage7_4]

Mega Lopunny if obtainable before the Elite 4, can actually wallop 4/5 of them. Sydney, Glacia, Phoebe, and Steven couldn't wall it if they tried. Unless Phoebe still uses protect PP stall dusklops, but even then you can just smack it around with return.

Unfortunately we got a picture showing Salamence's new pokedex number as 198. With additional revealed pokedex numbers, it appears that the new additions are just the new evolutions to previous R/S/E pokemon (like Magnezone and Gallade).

While it could still appear very late or just have been added to the end of the pokedex, it's looking very likely that the Buneary line is post-game.

 

[Lady Vader]

Weirdly enough, they dropped that scenario after Emerald. I wonder why, it was pretty fun.

What? That has been present since, including X and Y.

 

[IcyMan28]

Mega Lopunny if obtainable before the Elite 4, can actually wallop 4/5 of them. Sydney, Glacia, Phoebe, and Steven couldn't wall it if they tried. Unless Phoebe still uses protect PP stall dusklops, but even then you can just smack it around with return.

I wouldn't count Phoebe and Steven out. Phoebe's ghost have monstrous defense and WoW (I'm talking Dusclops / Dusknoir here), and the only one of Steven's steels hit SE by Lopunny is Aggron. Meanwhile, Skarm, Claydol (Reflect), Armaldo, and Mega Metagross all have the defenses to take a hit and strike back.

As far as sweeping the E4 goes, I can't think of a single pokemon that can sweep them all the way Scrafty could take Unova's on, which is a good thing. It'll force you to have some diversity.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

What? That has been present since, including X and Y.

I swear I can't remember a single situation where I could face either one or two trainers depending on our positions on the overworld.

 

[KingHeracrossTheBug]

I swear I can't remember a single situation where I could face either one or two trainers depending on our positions on the overworld.

I remember some from DPPt

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Are there any relevant cases of rare pokémon being easily available in the third games/remakes? Having Surskit being more easily found would be a nice resort against early hordes.

If hordes actually are an issue early game you can always be a cheap-o and TM/HM spread moves onto your ORAS pokes from your XY game. Pokebank means you don't even need to borrow your friend's 3DS to do so.

Horde battle could definitely get annoying if you can't run from them (trainer battle) and you don't have spread moves. But spread moves aren't a requirement. Horde Pokemon are always like 10 levels lower than non-horde things at the given point in the level curve. So not being able to spread attack them just means you have to put up with crap like getting Sand-attacked 3 times in 1 turn, but not that you're going to lose.

 

[Thorhammer]

Unfortunately we got a picture showing Salamence's new pokedex number as 198. With additional revealed pokedex numbers, it appears that the new additions are just the new evolutions to previous R/S/E pokemon (like Magnezone and Gallade).

While it could still appear very late or just have been added to the end of the pokedex, it's looking very likely that the Buneary line is post-game.

Not being before Salamence on the regional Pokedex doesn't mean being postgame. Wasn't it Platinum that stuck on more Pokemon at the end?

We could suppose Salamence was moved back nine spots due to the additions of Gallade, Probopass, Magnezone, Budew, Roserade, Dusknoir, Chingling, Rhyperior, and Froslass, while all other additions like Buneary and Audino get the Platinum treatment of being inserted after most or all of the originals.

 

[Kurona]

Not being before Salamence on the regional Pokedex doesn't mean being postgame. Wasn't it Platinum that stuck on more Pokemon at the end?

We could suppose Salamence was moved back nine spots due to the additions of Gallade, Probopass, Magnezone, Budew, Roserade, Dusknoir, Chingling, Rhyperior, and Froslass, while all other additions like Buneary and Audino get the Platinum treatment of being inserted after most or all of the originals.

Look, the thing about that is... WHY would they choose to place Buneary, Audino etc. after Deoxys when putting them before Bagon would make so much more sense and be so much better? It looked hella awkward in Platinum and would do now.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Look, the thing about that is... WHY would they choose to place Buneary, Audino etc. after Deoxys when putting them before Bagon would make so much more sense and be so much better? It looked hella awkward in Platinum and would do now.

It just means the Pokedex has been set up both ways in the past so we can't really say for certain either way until the games are out or we see game footage where these additional mons are used.

EDIT: Where they are used specifically in what we can tell is a pre-champion ship in-game piece of footage. (which is a little bit hard to be certain of.)

 

[KingHeracrossTheBug]

Look, the thing about that is... WHY would they choose to place Buneary, Audino etc. after Deoxys when putting them before Bagon would make so much more sense and be so much better? It looked hella awkward in Platinum and would do now.

What if we just got a BW2 treatment and Salamence happened to get that close by a coincidence?

 

[Lady Vader]

What if we just got a BW2 treatment and Salamence happened to get that close by a coincidence?

Unlikely. The reason the New Unova Dex is like the way it is isn't just from adding new Pokémon. It's adjusting to the new locations of Pokémon (since every new Pokédex since the original Johto/New Pokédex in Gold, Silver, and Crystal has the Pokémon in roughly the order they are encountered). We didn't start in Nuvema Town, therefore the order needed to change.

 

[Kurona]

And again, I don't see why they'd just randomly have Buneary, Audino etc. in the dex after Deoxys or even after Salamence. Platinum and BW2 had very obvious reasons for it, ORAS just... doesn't. Really, theorizing this is ridiculous desperation of wanting these guys in the dex. It's extremely unlikely if there is a lilkihood at all.

 

[thdhted]

Alright, so on the elite four, do you think it will be harder this time around, or a cakewalk like in x/y? Steven, unless otherwise nerfed in some way, is certain to be harder. Remember steven's lead skarmory, the one with spikes and toxic? Chances are, it will have sturdy, so have fun with that poison and/or hazards. Aggron is also a candidate for sturdy, hits pretty hard, and has an actual physical movepool now. Steven's team destroying metagross now has a mega, and unlike diantha's gardevoir, actual bulk. And watch out for that evil cradily that he's got that destroys groudon and swampert.

 

[Millky95]

Alright, so on the elite four, do you think it will be harder this time around, or a cakewalk like in x/y? Steven, unless otherwise nerfed in some way, is certain to be harder. Remember steven's lead skarmory, the one with spikes and toxic? Chances are, it will have sturdy, so have fun with that poison and/or hazards. Aggron is also a candidate for sturdy, hits pretty hard, and has an actual physical movepool now. Steven's team destroying metagross now has a mega, and unlike diantha's gardevoir, actual bulk. And watch out for that evil cradily that he's got that destroys groudon and swampert.

Well he should have a Mega Metagross now and Drake could have Mega Salamence. Would love to see them harder

 

[Kiga]

And again, I don't see why they'd just randomly have Buneary, Audino etc. in the dex after Deoxys or even after Salamence. Platinum and BW2 had very obvious reasons for it, ORAS just... doesn't. Really, theorizing this is ridiculous desperation of wanting these guys in the dex. It's extremely unlikely if there is a lilkihood at all.

While I would normally agree with you on this, this is Game Freak we're talking about; if they want to add more pokemon, then they will, and they have already hinted at including new pokemon. This could easily just apply to those nine pokemon who are related, and I would be happy with this, but they are already hinting at including Slowpoke, Buneary, and Audino. They could be just be available in the post game, but the only reference we have to the inclusion of mega evolutions at the moment is X and Y, where every pokemon who is capable of evolution, baring Blaziken and Mewtwo, can be found during the main story.

On top of that, with the confirmation of wild horde battles, they have a ready made vehicle to include pokemon who weren't in Hoenn originally. If they were to start wild hordes in Dewford Cave, the first area accessible only after the first badge, and run them through to Route 123, then there would be fourteen routes (including Jagged Path) and five caves with hordes in them. If even one new pokemon is added via hordes in each area, they could include about thirty-five to forty-five new pokemon altogether, just from hordes; this isn't even including the Safari Zone. If this does turn out to be the case, then the most logical place for the new entries would be after Salamence or Metagross, but before the legendaries. Would each area have a horde of new pokemon? No, not necessarily. Is it plausible that they would use hordes to include some new pokemon? Certainly.

I doubt they'd make radical changes to the overall structure of the Hoenn dex, but they've already shown a willingness to tack on several pokemon to the end of an existing pokedex. Even if it's cross-generational and a remake, they have no set rules that they absolutely have to follow. This is all theory, anyway, and we probably won't know anything concretely until the games come out, but we have no information to prove the final structure one way or the other.