Resource RU Viability Ranking

[HeIIraiser]

Backing up moving Meloetta to rank S. It has many good offensive movesets (CM 3atks, SubCM 2atks, Specs, Scarf, Mixed) and fantastic offensive presence. The Choice Specs set destroys Stalls, while Choice Scarf Meloetta is amazing against offense. Its bulky also makes it survive hits from defensive pokémons on its Substitute and it also checks Doublade, another top5 pokémon in the tier. It even also outspeeds other offensive pokémon in the tier, like Exploud and Hitmonlee.

Just a calc showing how amazing Meloetta is:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 332-392 (103.1 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I kove how everyone wanted to nominate Meloetta to S when Galbia said he would.



I guess people are fishing for likes or something...

Anyways I think we should wait to the suspect test to be over before making this type of nominations because: a) We aren't 100% sure they will be banned and b) Even if they did we should wait a week or two for the meta to settle

Well eonx and I were talking about her and I said that I was going to nominate her and cress too (not cress to S), I also talked about if houndoom dropped he would be a good counter (eonx then brought up t wave crippling it on the switch), plus its not like likes get you anything, I really really see them as people agreeing with you

 

[Molk]

Alrighty, time for updates and the final update until voting is over.

Updates

Meloetta up to S rank
Roselia up to B rank
Amoonguss up to A rank
Accelgor up to B+ rank
Skuntank down to B- rank

Gonna leave Heliolisk alone for now, and i have absolutely no clue what to do with some of the lesser used mons nominated such as Altaria, Mesprit, Xatu, and Rotom-F.

I agree with waiting a little bit on Cofagrigus before moving it back up, especially since even if the suspects get banned, there's still at least one other threat thats hot on Cofa's tail, and thats new S rank mon Meloetta :x. Not to mention Cofagrigus *still* recieves a lot of competition from the other Ghost-types in the tier, such as Doublade, Spiritomb, possibly even Gourgeist, etc.

I'd also like to add that i'm not opposed to moving Roselia or Amoonguss back down in the future, especially since if at least one of the suspects goes the meta will probably become a bit more favorable to the Psychic-types that can trouble them/use them as set up bait, such as Cresselia, Delphox, Reuniclus, and Meloetta.

I'd like to see some more discussion on Kabutops before deciding anything about it

 

[Ares]

I dont think that Altaria and Rotom-F deserve to be reranked since we just cleared them out of the D/C ranks. They fall under the E-rank imo, Altaria more so than Rotom-F.

As far as Mesprit and Xatu go, both of them can be quite viable. Mesprit with the multiple sets it can run and having access to healing wish and rocks. While Xatu has the ability Magic Bounce making it harder for spike mons to set up. A lot of common rockers can beat Xatu 1v1. Also Xatu has been increasing quite a bit as something to BP boosts to as a stored power user. I think both of them warrant at the very least C-.

I agree with leaving Heliolisk where it is.

After the votes are in I'll post more on some other psychic types.

 

[Lemonade]

I had a team with Kabutops and I wasn't a huge fan of it. If you don't run SD, it pretty much can't beat anything, but when you do run SD you don't have slots. SD with Rapid Spin means you can have only two of Waterfall, Stone Edge, Aqua Jet, and Knock Off, and even without Spin, 80 base Speed can't really hope for a sweep (plenty of faster and popular mons to beat it with, or things to keep walling it). And you can't rely on Weak Armor for a Speed boost.

 

[aVocado]

Kabutops: it's meh on paper tbh. I gotta admit I didn't really test it out as a spinner/SD sweeper except for very little in a team I made in like r2 or something, but as a spinner it's outclassed by Sandslash which can beat spinblockers more reliably. It also wishes it can get all of: rapid spin, swords dance, stone edge, knock off, waterfall, and aqua jet together in one set but can only use four. All in all, Kabutops suffers severe 4MSS and is not that good of a spinner tbh, it's also slow and can't do much without swords dance as V0x said.

So yeah, Spin/SD Kabutops is kinda not that good, but the set that is good imo and is Kabutop's best niche is Swift Swim sweeper under rain. That thing is fucking terrifying without any boosts at all and is an awesome reliable cleaner/sweeper for rain teams.

B- is a good fit imo.

 

[phantom]

I think Kabutops is fine where it is tbh. Kabutops and Sandslash aren't comparable in the least bit and I don't see how it's in anyway outclassed by it, and that very assertion is...questionable. If anything, it's more comparable to Hitmonlee and Sandslash to Gligar considering the Slash/Gligar are hazard removers for balanced and Kabu/Lee are for offense. The difference between Sandslash and Kabutops is that sandslash is a lot easer to pressure despite supposedly doing better against spin blockers. Lack of reliable recovery, low speed, pathetic spd, and no priority make it very easy to overwhelm for offense. It has the same issues that prevented it from doing well last gen, the only difference now is that it has Knock Off, but it still has to get around the issues above AND stiff competition from Gligar. Whenever I see a balanced team with Sandslash, I kinda have to wonder why that team just doesn't use Gligar instead which is harder to wear down and pressure, not to mention Gligar can maintain momentum with U-turn. On the other hand, you can justify using Kabutops over Hitmonlee for a variety of reasons. One, Kabutops provides actual defensive synergy. If your offensive team is weak to Fletchinder or Moltres for instance (which happen to be quite a few of them), then Kabutops is a very good alternative as it can easily switch in on most of their attacks and get a clean KO with Aqua Jet after rocks. Two, Kabutops can check different threats such as Mega Abomasnow more easily (Ice Shard 2HKOs Hitmonlee, so if it's weak, gl!), Braviary, as well as Delphox while not exacerbating your team's vulnerability to threats such as Amoonguss and Gligar. Three, weak armor is really fucking clutch and can heavily punish offensive teams should Kabutops gets the boost, not to mention that Kabutops will have a way better chance to spin with the +Spe. I also think the 4MSS syndrome is being exaggerated, Kabutops does not need SD to spin when it has the best Ghost-busting move in the game... SD and Rapid Spin sets function entirely different. If anything, the one Pokemon that needs to move down is Sandslash, I think it's incredibly overrated. While it's by no means a bad Pokemon, it's kinda difficult to justify its use over Gligar on balanced, which is the only kinda team it really fits on. So keep Kabutops where it is and move Sandslash down. =/

 

[Mew2]

I used Kabutops in my SW team back when Shuckle was RU and I had nice results with it, as Spirit mentioned it checks a lot of things that Hitminlee doesn't like Braviary (common at that time), Fletchinder and Emboar. Kabutops is a bit slower than Hitmonlee but it didn't mattered because with SW it was as fast as Lee and had priority Aqua Jet for things like Moltres and Braviary.
With the departure of Shuckle Kabutops' speed became a big issue and with things like Alomomola and Jolteon rising in usage Kabutops has a hard time in today's metagame and adding that the things that he checked like Braviary and Emboar are losing popularity I think Kabutops should move down.

One, Kabutops provides actual defensive synergy. If your offensive team is weak to Fletchinder or Moltres for instance (which happen to be quite a few of them), then Kabutops is a very good alternative as it can easily switch in on most of their attacks and get a clean KO with Aqua Jet after rocks.

Sadly, Kabutops can't switch into most Moltres' attacks thanks to his horrible bulk; Defensive sets cripple with Wisp (Kabutops won't enjoy Toxic either) and offensive sets murder Kabutops with every attack but Fire STAB (252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 152-179 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). And finally like you mentioned Kabutops can't kill Moltres unless SR are up (252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 187-221 (58.2 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and Moltres outspeeds Kabutops so it isn't even a reliable check.

 

[phantom]

Yes it can? Offensive moltres runs Roost / STABs / HP Grass. That's 3/4 of the set ergo, most. The point of a check is to be able to switch in on one of the moves a Pokemon carries and force the Pokemon out. Kabutops can do just that with Moltres. Of course it won't enjoy taking repeated hits, but if it can come in at least once (or twice if it takes a Fire Blast) and force it out (such as forcing Moltres to take SR damage again), then that's more than enough. I really don't understand why you said it can't switch in when your calcs painted it out how it clearly can... Second, I said it can switch in on most of its moves, so I'm not sure why you brought up Wisp as if I'm not acknowledging that. Kabutops isn't a bad offensive check to Moltres when it can switch into 3/4 of its set and force it out with an Aqua Jet / Stone Edge if it's a bulky variant. Lastly, SR is pretty much on every team, and since gen 4, it was never wrong to assume them as a given battle condition, because they're almost always up a majority of the time.

 

[Mew2]

Yes it can? Offensive moltres runs Roost / STABs / HP Grass. That's 3/4 of the set ergo, most. The point of a check is to be able to switch in on one of the moves a Pokemon carries and force the Pokemon out. Kabutops can do just that with Moltres. Of course it won't enjoy taking repeated hits, but if it can come in at least once (or twice if it takes a Fire Blast) and force it out (such as forcing Moltres to take SR damage again), then that's more than enough. I really don't understand why you said it can't switch in when your calcs painted it out how it clearly can... Second, I said it can switch in on most of its moves, so I'm not sure why you brought up Wisp as if I'm not acknowledging that. Kabutops isn't a bad offensive check to Moltres when it can switch into 3/4 of its set and force it out with an Aqua Jet / Stone Edge if it's a bulky variant. Lastly, SR is pretty much on every team, and since gen 4, it was never wrong to assume them as a given battle condition, because they're almost always up a majority of the time.

You never said Kabutops is a Moltres check:

If your offensive team is weak to Fletchinder or Moltres for instance (which happen to be quite a few of them), then Kabutops is a very good alternative as it can easily switch in on most of their attacks and get a clean KO with Aqua Jet after rocks.

IMO Easily switching isn't taking 60% for a resisted move also who would bring his/ her Moltres when SR are up? In fact Kabu can only switch when Moltres is Roosting (lol) and when it's using a fire STAB. And any good player would predict the switch and use HP Grass so like I said Kabutops is a decent offensive Moltres check but it can't "easily switch in on most of their attacks".

 

[phantom]

Mew2, Why does that matter if I explicitly said if it is or isn't a check? The part you bolded implied that. Again, I really don't get the point of this and why you're arguing it isn't a check. Of course it has to be careful and it isn't foolproof, that's why it's a check. Here's the deal: very few things on offense can switch into Moltres and live, THEN be in a decent condition where they can force it out. Having something that does it is fairly notable. Let's also not forget that you can't always rely on Hurricane actually hitting, and finally, you're not always in control of the situation at hand, you can't just say "who would bring his/ her Moltres when SR are up", because more often than not, a good player won't always let you get your way in a match.

Also, "prediction" is a terrible argument because it works both ways. You can't possibly use that to justify your means, that's ridiculous. Once again, switching into 3/4 isn't that bad, it can still switch in on Hurricane if need be as that calc clearly shows. So yes, it is "most", perhaps easily was a tad exaggerated, but why you're arguing over semantics is beyond me.

 

[Mew2]

So yes, it is "most", perhaps easily was a tad exaggerated, but why you're arguing over semantics is beyond me.

Fair enough I'll stop :]
EDIT: Speaking of something else can Spiritomb move up? He is THE Meloetta counter and is great in todays meta. I'll post more tomorrow because atm I'm tired but I think Spiritomb should move at least one rank.

 

[MegaGallade]

I believe Durant should be at least A, not A-. Yes, he does have a massive weakness to fire, but with Hustle and a Choice Band/scarf, he can sweep much more Pokemon compared to other Pokemon in his rank, as well as a big movepool.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I believe Durant should be at least A, not A-. Yes, he does have a massive weakness to fire, but with Hustle and a Choice Band/scarf, he can sweep much more Pokemon compared to other Pokemon in his rank, as well as a big movepool.

I honestly don't see durant as any kind of threat, because of hustle it's moves become 20% move accurate which is kinda bad when he uses stone miss and rock slide as coverage, so usually has to run hone claws to cover this weakness, having the 50% increase is great but can screw your win up if anything misses, which can screw its late game cleaning ability up when I can just use sharpedo, who after a few speed boosts is quicker and doesn't rely on 80% or lower accurate moves. plus with scrf/band what move will he be locked into, steel is a horrible offensive move to be locked into, bug is horrible with the amount of golbat, togetic, yanmega etc running around in the tier right now, superpower you will have to switch which will give your opponent time to set up if you OHKO with it and crunch doesn't like aromatisse being there.

I'm not saying he doesn't punch massive holes into pokemon, I don't think anyone can deny that, but it is just easily revenge killed if it runs choice items because it likes it's coverage and running life orb alot of pokemon take a hit and hit bad OHKOing it because of its bad special bulk.

 

[MegaGallade]

I honestly don't see durant as any kind of threat, because of hustle it's moves become 20% move accurate which is kinda bad when he uses stone miss and rock slide as coverage, so usually has to run hone claws to cover this weakness, having the 50% increase is great but can screw your win up if anything misses, which can screw its late game cleaning ability up when I can just use sharpedo, who after a few speed boosts is quicker and doesn't rely on 80% or lower accurate moves. plus with scrf/band what move will he be locked into, steel is a horrible offensive move to be locked into, bug is horrible with the amount of golbat, togetic, yanmega etc running around in the tier right now, superpower you will have to switch which will give your opponent time to set up if you OHKO with it and crunch doesn't like aromatisse being there.

I'm not saying he doesn't punch massive holes into pokemon, I don't think anyone can deny that, but it is just easily revenge killed if it runs choice items because it likes it's coverage and running life orb alot of pokemon take a hit and hit bad OHKOing it because of its bad special bulk.

Then again, it has more resistances and defense than Sharpedo, which can be easily OHKO'd. I've used it many times and it really is good, sweeping significant threats in teams with Thunder Fang and Crunch. That's why I suggest moving up just one rank.
(BTW I've never posted into a viability thread before)

 

[Mew2]

I honestly don't see durant as any kind of threat, because of hustle it's moves become 20% move accurate which is kinda bad when he uses stone miss and rock slide as coverage

While Hustle's accuracy sucks, it also gives Durant a nice 50% boost to every attack making his already nice 109 base attack good skyrocket into legendary levels and like you said with one Hone Claws the Accuracy issue is solved and Durant finds plenty of opportunities to set up thanks to his Steel/ Bug typing and amazing 122 defense. Also Durant shouldn't use Stoned Edge for coverage and Rock Slide's only real target is Moltres and Iron Head already kills at +1 after rocks (+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Moltres: 183-216 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock).

I can just use sharpedo, who after a few speed boosts is quicker and doesn't rely on 80% or lower accurate moves. I'm not saying he doesn't punch massive holes into pokemon, I don't think anyone can deny that, but it is just easily revenge killed if it runs choice items because it likes it's coverage and running life orb alot of pokemon take a hit and hit bad OHKOing it because of its bad special bulk.

Durant isn't supposed to be a later game cleaner, he is more of a physical mid game sweeper and while Sharpedo is faster he will never hit as hard as Durant does also I don't think that revenge killing Durant is as easy as you say; base 109 makes him one of the fastest pokemon in the tier outspeeding Delphox, Hitmonlee, Zoroark, the musketeers, Moltres and Meloetta among others. He also takes priority hits pretty well thanks to that amazing defense stat:
252+ Atk Gurdurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 57-67 (22 - 25.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hitmonlee Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 82-97 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 90.6% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 58-70 (22.4 - 27.1%) -- 47% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Durant: 78-94 (30.2 - 36.4%) -- 45.3% chance to 3HKO

In other words if you don't have a scarcer on your team Durant might be able to sweep your entire team after a single Hone Claws boost in other words I agree Durant to A rank.

 

[x MAD AXES x]

I have never seen durant as a threat honestly guess my team just doesn't fear him...

 

[Leer]

I have never seen durant as a threat honestly guess my team just doesn't fear him...

Just because one team can handle a Pokemon well does not mean that it isn't good. A team can be built around handling any major threat, but that doesn't mean it doesn't put pressure on teams not catered or prepared for it. I know you probably didn't intentionally create a team to handle Durant, but if you ended up using four or so Pokemon that check/counter Durant then you could be biased towards Durant not being much of a threat.

With that said, I believe Durant has a shot at A after the suspect test ends. I can see Durant rising in usage and/or becoming slightly anti-meta, seeing as that if at least one of the suspects is banned Psychic types such as Reuniclus, Cresselia, Meloetta and others will rise. Durant can check/counter all three of these, as it outspeeds all three (bar Scarf Meloetta) and can hit them with Hustle-boosted X-Scissors and Crunches. Not only can it hit them super effectively but it also resists their STAB and Cresselia's Moonblast. It even has a good base Defense, which can come in handy when taking a Psyshock. Durant can also take advantage of any imminent switches by using them as a free turn to use Hone Claws and possibly sweep. It boosts only one weakness, fire, which it is unfortunately x4 weak. Escavalier has the same typing, yet is A rank while Durant is A-. They are different in a few ways, most notably bulk, speed, and ability, but overall I don't see why the two should be separated.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Durant is a big threat to stall and balance teams.
but i dunno if its, like, a serious contender for A rank. I'll let you folks decide that.

 

[Empress]

Uh guys, can we do this yet:

C- to E
Ambipom fits the E rank description better, as it is an RU Pokémon by usage, and it is bad. No matter how much Technician Fake Out may convince some players that it has a legit niche, the reality is that it struggles to deal sufficient damage, and its extreme frailty does it no favors either. It is also hopelessly outclassed by Cinccino, who has better SE coverage, as well as Tauros and Zangoose, who have the raw power that Ambipom wishes it could have. While it usually strikes first with its fast 115 base speed, with just 100 Attack and pitiful 75/66/66 typing, you won't get much out of that first hit anyways. It's also hopelessly outclassed by Hitmonlee as a Fake Out abuser, as Hitmonlee is even faster after Unburden and has the coverage and power to be a solid Poke after that.

TL;DR, Ambipom is very outclassed, very frail, only moderately strong, and has one tiny niche that Hitmonlee does way better. I can definitely see it on the same level as Claydol and Hitmonchan in terms of being bad.

 

[Leer]

Uh guys, can we do this yet:

C- to E
Ambipom fits the E rank description better, as it is an RU Pokémon by usage, and it is bad. No matter how much Technician Fake Out may convince some players that it has a legit niche, the reality is that it struggles to deal sufficient damage, and its extreme frailty does it no favors either. It is also hopelessly outclassed by Cinccino, who has better SE coverage, as well as Tauros and Zangoose, who have the raw power that Ambipom wishes it could have. While it usually strikes first with its fast 115 base speed, with just 100 Attack and pitiful 75/66/66 typing, you won't get much out of that first hit anyways. It's also hopelessly outclassed by Hitmonlee as a Fake Out abuser, as Hitmonlee is even faster after Unburden and has the coverage and power to be a solid Poke after that.

TL;DR, Ambipom is very outclassed, very frail, only moderately strong, and has one tiny niche that Hitmonlee does way better. I can definitely see it on the same level as Claydol and Hitmonchan in terms of being bad.

Yes, yes, yes I support this full heartedly. Ambipom has no place in RU, and the people need to know this. It's incredibly easy to play around, so much so that it fails to make a dent in even my least prepared teams. Fake Out+Tech is Ambipom's only decent quality, and even that isn't even worth a slot on your team seeing as ghost types, rock types, steel types and protect shut it down. Coverage moves can help it, but as mentioned 100 base attack doesn't do Ambi any good. One of the few things Ambipom can do is let mons set up on it or kill it. Doublade can bulk a Knock Off and Iron Head it. Registeel can paralyze it and set SR up in Ambipom's face, and the list goes on. There are other better normal types that this Ambipomination is overshadowing. This plague of the lower ladder needs to move down into a tier where it actually has a fighting chance. Ambipom for E

 

[Magcargo]

I agree that Ambipom is a piece of horse shit, but I don't think its as bad as the mons in E-Rank. Its pretty fast, allowing it to outspeed and KO mons like Delphox, Meloetta, and moltres after a bit of prior damage. With Low Kick, Ambipom actually has a fighting chance against Steel-types like Cobalion and Registeel unlike Cincinno, since Low Kick actually 2HKOes both and Fake out is still situationally useful to KO weakened offensive mons like Hitmonlee or Zoroark. Also, I'm not seeing how Ambipom is completely outclassed by Unburden Hitmonlee considering that it has an entirely different role than Ambipom.

Overall Ambipom is a pretty terrible and outclassed mon in the tier, but considering that C- Rank is filled with equally shitty Pokemon such as Primeape, I think its fine where it is.

 

[Empress]

Magcargo, I understand why you find Ambipom's Speed as a saving grace. However, SO many other Pokes can outspeed Delphox and Meloetta and are able to stand their ground against other things, namely Zororark and Sharpedo after a Speed Boost. And though Cobalion gets 2HKOed by Low Kick, he punishes Ambipom right back, brutally at that:
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ambipom: 428-506 (147 - 173.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also, Registeel isn't countered by Ambipom, as it can paralyze it and then set up SR. The reason I compared it to Unburden Hitmonlee is because they are both notorious for Fake Out, and are fast attackers. Additionally, please consider the definition for E rank: "RU Pokémon by usage that are bad". I do see it on the same level as Hitmonchan, in terms of it being totally outclassed, and Claydol, in terms of having one tiny niche that is far better filled by something else.

 

[Magnemite]

while ambipom isn't as bad as the E rank mons (and that's saying more about the E rank mons than ambipom tbh lol), i actually wouldn't mind putting it in there, since the entire reason E rank exists is to let players know that certain mons that look decent on paper are actually complete garbage, and ambipom is certainly garbage enough to warrant specifically warning against its use. normally, I wouldn't really think that this would matter enough to warrant putting it a bit below where it could be, but because of the fact that a) the RU ladder is absolutely awful, even compared to the other ladders (anyone who has spent a decent amount of time on it can attest to this), and b) Ambipom is literally #1 in unweighted usage, which is completely ridiculous for a mon that is this bad, putting Ambipom in E isn't a bad idea. While it is a bit better than some of the D rank mons, putting ambipom in E rank would make sense because of what having E rank is meant to accomplish (also, let's be honest, would ambipom REALLY be ranked at all if it weren't RU by usage? I doubt it). However, all of this said, I don't really care that much one way or another about its placement and would be perfectly fine with leaving it in C- rank because it is a bit better than most of the garbage in D rank, it's just that even the glorious ladder doesn't use those mons.

 

[g]

D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time.

Ambipom fits it perfectly as it has a definite niche as a revenge killer thanks to its strong and "free" priority and high speed that also make it a threat for some offensive teams without Doublade (which is forced to lose eviolite). However it is very frail, has weak coverage moves, and can't bother walls in the slightest (bar TrickCB which means no Fake Out) making it dead weight against balance. Perfect D imo