Vileplume [QC 3/3]

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus


Overview
#######
  • Diverse movepool allowing great utility and offensive capabilities at the same time.
  • Niche ability Effect Spore over other grass types in the tier which works well with it's defensive responsibilities in checking physical attackers such as Gatr and Gurdurr.
  • Decent 75/85/90 bulk which makes Vileplume a great defensive pokemon.
  • Fantastic base 110 SpA allowing Vileplume to perform an offensive role alonside it's defensive role.
  • Mediocre base 50 speed can affect it's ability to recover reliably.
  • Can be set up fodder for a lot of special attackers such as Mismagius.
Defensive
#############
Name: Defensive
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Synthesis
Move 4: Aromatherapy / Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire
Ability: Effect Spore
Item: Black Sludge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Nature: Bold

Moves
======
  • Giga Drain grants additional recovery on top of passive Black Sludge recovery and reliable Synthesis recovery.
  • Sludge Bomb is a powerful STAB move for Vileplume and it's 30% chance to poison added to potential Effect Spore activation allows Vileplume to cripple teams.
  • Synthesis grants reliable recovery.
  • Aromatherapy can be used to allow Vileplume to support the whole team not only with Effect Spore but as a cleric as well.
  • Alternatively, Sleep Powder can be used for additional sleep support and give free turns for recovery.
  • Hidden Power Fire stops Vileplume being completely stopped by Ferroseed.
Set Details
=========
  • 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA utilizes Vileplume's potential as a fantastic physical wall whilst also allowing it to hit hard when needed.
  • Black Sludge is preferred over leftovers just in case of trick from a Rotom or Spiritomb.
  • Effect Spore over Chlorophyll because there's no guarantee of being in sun unless you bring it yourself.
  • Bold nature to give maximum bulk.

Usage Tips
=========
  • Vileplume is a reliable fighting resist but needs to be wary of coverage moves like Ice Punch on Gurdurr's, Throh's and Hariyama.
  • If Vileplume's Black Sludge is knocked off, be sure to always synthesis to maintain full HP as you will no longer receive passive recovery.
  • Be sure to synthesis when your HP gets below 65% (use your judgement here though) because Vileplume should be kept healthy to take the hits it needs to.
  • Be wary of Feraligatr that carry Ice Punch because even after just one free turn to set up, Vileplume can't switch in.
  • In general, be careful of water types that carry ice coverage like Floatzel and Samurott.
  • Vileplume can be used as a cleric or can go on the offensive, nothing particularly wants to take a sludge bomb at neutral damage.

Team Options
===========
  • Vileplume likes to be paired with any bulky water type such as Feraligatr to absorb fire and ice attacks aimed at Vileplume.
  • Spiritomb and Pawniard work well with Vileplume as they absorb psychic attacks and Vileplume can take those fairy and fighting attacks aimed at Spiritomb and Pawniard respectively.
  • T-wave support allows Vileplume to perform many of it's roles a little better as it's speed certainly hinders it's recovery at times.
  • Probopass can switch in on flying and psychic hits aimed at Vileplume so makes a good team option.
Offensive
#############
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Synthesis / Sleep Powder
Ability: Effect Spore
Item: Life Orb / Black Sludge
EVs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe
Nature: Modest
Moves
======
  • Giga Drain is Vileplume's most reliable grass STAB and provides some recovery when Vileplume hits hard.
  • Sludge Bomb is Vileplume's powerful poison STAB move and it's 30% chance to poison added to potential Effect Spore activation allows Vileplume to cripple teams.
  • Hidden Power Fire stops Vileplume being completely stopped by Ferroseed as well as providing coverage for Klinklang.
  • Synthesis grants reliable recovery.
  • Alternatively, Sleep Powder can be used to allow Vileplume to handle pokemon it's 3 offensive moves can't and support the whole team.
Set Details
=========
  • A modest 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 Spe EV spread gives Vileplume maximum power and the 140 speed EVs allow it to outspeed Lanturn before it Volt Switches or Ice Beams Vileplume.
  • Life Orb is preferred on offensive Plume over Specs as Vileplume becomes easy set up fodder when locked in to a move.
  • Black Sludge can be used since it doesn't play too differently but Life Orb Vileplume is much harder to switch into for offensive threats.
  • Effect Spore over Chlorophyll because there's no guarantee of being in sun unless you bring it yourself.
  • Modest nature because the set doesn't bring max speed so maximum power is preferred.

Usage Tips
=========
  • Life Orb means Vileplume majorly threatens it's type advantages and keeps offensive threats like fire types well at bay as they don't want to switch into a Life Orb Sludge Bomb.
  • Vileplume is a reliable fighting resist but needs to be wary of coverage moves like Ice Punch on Gurdurr's, Throh's and Hariyama, particularly on the offensive set as it's not as bulky.
  • You cannot switch Vileplume in on Feraligatr with the offensive variant since Gatr outspeeds and will KO at +2.
  • Be sure to Synthesis when your HP gets below 65% (use your judgement here though) because Vileplume should be kept healthy since it's less capable of taking hits than the defensive set.

Team Options
===========
  • Vileplume likes to be paired with any bulky water type such as Feraligatr to absorb fire and ice attacks aimed at Vileplume, especially since the offensive set cannot take hits as well.
  • Offensive psychic types like Mesprit make good teammates for Vileplume as they can take down bulky poison types like Muk.
  • Spiritomb and Pawniard work well with Vileplume as they absorb psychic attacks and Vileplume can take those fairy and fighting attacks aimed at Spiritomb and Pawniard respectively.
  • Sticky Web support can make Vileplume a deadly tank if it can outspeed threats that would usually outspeed it.
  • Probopass can switch in on flying and psychic hits aimed at Vileplume so makes a good team option.

Other Options
##########
  • A Choice Specs set is viable as it will OHKO ferroseed with HP Fire and can destroy switch ins like offensive Cryogonal.
  • Leech seed can be used but restricts your ability in that you cannot use it with effect spore.
  • A sunny day sweeper set with Chlorophyll and life orb can be used if you play a sun team.
Checks & Counters
#############
  • **Set up sweepers**: If already set up to at least +2, a lum berry Feraligatr can 2HKO max Def Plume. Additionally, any special set up sweeper such as Uxie or Mismagius can set up on Vileplume and start doing work.
  • **Fire types**: Pokemon such as Pyroar and Magmortar seriously threaten Vileplume with powerful Fire Blasts, even a physical variant can threaten.
  • **Psychic types**: Strong Psychic types like Uxie and Mesprit threaten Vileplume especially since they're bulky enough to take offensive hits from Vileplume.
  • **Strong special attackers**: Including ghost types and especially ice types that can either set up on Vileplume or destroy it with a super effective move.
  • **Poison types**: Pokemon such as Muk and Arbok can absorb hits from Vileplume and possibly set up.
  • **Certain grass types**: Ferroseed and Quilladin both resist Giga Drain and are immune to Sludge Bomb so without HP Fire they can set up spikes on Vileplume.
 
Last edited:

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Finally making some progress with this one, before I move it into QC I welcome any obvious changes I may have missed cos again I chose to do this quite late. I struggled coming up with negative points for the overview so any hints there are welcomed.
 
add to be careful against water types with ice coverage like feraligatr, samurott, floatzel, etc in usage tips, banded floatzel can 2hko plume with ice punch surprisingly
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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-In usage tips add in make sure to synthesis if below like 60% health or something because right now it makes it seem like you should synthesis every time
-Expand the usage tips a little bit more, add in that it can be used as a cleric or it can also go on the offensive and nothing really wants to switch in to a sludge bomb
-Possibly remove hidden power ground entirely as sludge bomb actually ends up hitting harder against fire types and it also has a chance to poison seriously hampering there ability to continuously switch in with rocks up. And things like Muk and Dragalge are better handled by other team mates or put to sleep with Sleep Powder.
-Break Strong Special attackers into 3 different parts, I feel like to much is getting lumped into here, Psychic types and Fire types both seriously threaten plume along with the occasional physical variant of those types. And then there are Strong special types in general which you already had.
-Include Ferroseed and Quilladin in the checks because they resist giga and are immune to sludge bomb, ofc with hp fire plume can hit back, but otherwise they are going to be setting up spikes in plumes face.
 

watashi

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World Defender
i think hp fire is good enough to deserve a slash behind aroma and sleep powder. it makes the difference between you countering ferroseed or letting it set up 3 layers of spikes for free on you. also hits klinklang and pawniard who set up on you otherwise
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
"Don't allow opposing Feraligatr to set up to a point where an Ice Punch will OHKO Plume, bring it in straight away upon sight of Feraligatr."
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 322-380 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO; and a guarteneed OHKO after rocks.

obviously not all gatr run Lifeorb, but I'd reword that to something like "be wary of Feraligatr that carry ice punch, because even after just one free turn Vileplume can't switch in." or something. They way you have it written now makes it sound as if as long as you act fast, you can still stop it, which isn't always the case.


Mention Probopass in Team options, as it can switch-in on both Flying and Psychic attacks aimed at plume.

,
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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"Don't allow opposing Feraligatr to set up to a point where an Ice Punch will OHKO Plume, bring it in straight away upon sight of Feraligatr."
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 322-380 (90.9 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO; and a guarteneed OHKO after rocks.

obviously not all gatr run Lifeorb, but I'd reword that to something like "be wary of Feraligatr that carry ice punch, because even after just one free turn Vileplume can't switch in." or something. They way you have it written now makes it sound as if as long as you act fast, you can still stop it, which isn't always the case.
Never mind Life Orb, all Gatr has to do to beat Plume is Swords Dance twice (one on the switch), tank a Giga Drain, and OHKO with Ice Punch that way.

4 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 206-246 (57.7 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252+ Atk Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 372-438 (105 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bringing in Plume straight away on Gatr won't even guarantee that Plume would win. Alternatively, you could mention the use of a bulky Water-type teammate to cover Gatr if it does have Ice Punch.
 

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Never mind Life Orb, all Gatr has to do to beat Plume is Swords Dance twice (one on the switch), tank a Giga Drain, and OHKO with Ice Punch that way.

4 SpA Vileplume Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 206-246 (57.7 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252+ Atk Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 372-438 (105 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bringing in Plume straight away on Gatr won't even guarantee that Plume would win. Alternatively, you could mention the use of a bulky Water-type teammate to cover Gatr if it does have Ice Punch.
I've already mentioned a bulky water team mate :)

Okay guys changes implemented, QC checks please? I'm still concerned at the lack of Other Options now I've moved HP Fire to the main set and removed HP Ground, but if that's just what it's like then ok.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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If you are looking for stuff to fill up oo with, a sunny day sweeper set, similar to a specs set can get a mention.
 

Ares

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When talking about HP Fire in moves add Pawniard and Klingklang.
Reword poison types in C&C from, "Pokemon such as Muk and Arbok can absorb hits from Vileplume and possibly set up." to something like Pokemon such as Muk and Arbok resist both of Vileplumes stabs and can set up.

Otherwise seems solid
QC 2/3
 
idk if its just me, but I really think the Specs set deserves a set of its own. I find it to be really good in this metagame, and Vileplume is really strong.

A set like:

Offensive
#############
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Dazzling Gleam
Ability: Effect Spore
Item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest


What are some other QC members opinions on this set? I have had a lot of success with it on offensive teams. It OHKOs a lot of shit and still retains some of Vileplumes bulk ( dont switch into Gatr anymore)
 

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
idk if its just me, but I really think the Specs set deserves a set of its own. I find it to be really good in this metagame, and Vileplume is really strong.

A set like:

Offensive
#############
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Dazzling Gleam
Ability: Effect Spore
Item: Choice Specs / Life Orb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest


What are some other QC members opinions on this set? I have had a lot of success with it on offensive teams. It OHKOs a lot of shit and still retains some of Vileplumes bulk ( dont switch into Gatr anymore)
I wasn't 100% sure of how common this was, I'll wait on some other QC members opinions and we'll think about adding it in.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
I say go for it. I know teddeh's been having great success with that set, and I could see it being really tough to switch into.
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
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Raseri I am fine with Life Orb. Choice Specs is meh because being locked into Hidden Power Fire, Giga Drain, or even Sludge Bomb if they have a Klinklang on their team can be rly bad for Vileplume. I also really don't see a point for Dazzling Gleam lol, if anything I would run Sleep Powder and Synthesis in the 4th slot:

Offensive
#############
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sludge Bomb
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Synthesis / Sleep Powder
Ability: Effect Spore
Item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest

just my 2 cents.
 

Punchshroom

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Way too much speed, the most speed Offensive Plume should shoot for is Lanturn before it Volt Switches / Ice Beams Plume, which would take 140 EVs; any more speed would only hinder Plume's bulk against faster threats.

Edit: Orphic
For the record, I would think Exeggutor does a better job at being Specs than Plume; it wallbreaks much better with its STABs, which includes Leaf Storm as well as Psyshock for special walls. LO Plume, on the other hand, would focus more on tanking with boosted Giga Drains or simply using Synthesis, while keeping its bulk/defensive typing advantage over Eggy, which means better longevity overall.
 
Last edited:

watashi

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i don't really like specs since vileplume's stabs are really easy to wall and you lose out on synthesis recovery which is pretty important. i would just go with life orb or maybe even black sludge with max special attack as an offensive set, something like what ium used in his rmt
 

Punchshroom

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You could slash Black Sludge after Life Orb on the offensive set; they don't play that differently from each other, and is an option for teams that want their Plumes to hit harder than the defensive set but want to keep its longevity. In turn, you can emphasize Life Orb's use in that it makes it harder to switch into Plume.

Orphic Another thing, your Usage tips for offensive Plume do not highlight what makes it worth using over defensive Plume. You can say that it majorly threatens its type advantages (Waters, Grounds, Fairys) while keeping most offensive switch-ins like Fire- and Flying-types well at bay.

QC 3/3
 

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