Really nice job. This is an excellent resource, and I appreciate how comprehensive it is. You also chose a nice, underused type for it, which is cool. Now we just need more of these o.oI stumbled across this guide while re-organizing some files on my computer. I had made this and was trying to get some feedback on it before going live, and had planned to do a guide for each type in BH, but it fell by the wayside and was forgotten about when Real Life™ decided to kick me around a bit. And rather than let it fall into the abyss, I thought I'd go ahead and share it before the new change potentially renders any information it contains irrelevant (though not completely since chunks of this don't care how many EVs stuff in the tier can use) just in case someone finds it useful.
Keep in mind this was a rough draft, so it's definitely not perfect (it almost completely lacks formatting right now) and while I did a quick glance to update a few bits to reflect the current meta, some parts might be out of date. If people like this enough, I'll update it after the new meta stabilizes and perhaps go through with the plan to work on the other types.
Water Types
In Balanced Hackmons, Water is a relatively uncommon typing only used by a few common Pokemon in the tier. However, this should not be taken to suggest that Water is a bad type. Sure, while it may not stand out in particular among some of the other types in the tier, it's still quite solid and a good Water-type will, at the very least, pull their weight on the team.
Pros
-Resists both Ice and Fire, two of the stronger attacking types in the tier.
-While rain teams, and weather teams in general, are very rare this generation, Water attacks are still boosted by 50% in the rain.
-Additionally, Water's resistance to Water, Fire, and Ice means it can work as a defensive check to rain, sun, and hail teams. Worth keeping in mind should we have a weather resurgence at some point.
-Offensively, Water can be paired with Ice for a classic coverage combo only resisted by other Water types, allowing for Imposter-resistant sweepers that can hit most of the tier. It also matches well with other types, such as Fire and Fairy.
-One of the few types that can use Techno Blast.
-Defensively, Water's resistance to Ice, Fire, Water, and Steel attacks allow it to synergize with Grass, Dragon, Fairy, Steel, Bug, Fire, and Ice. It also synergizes with Rock, Ground, and Flying, though shares weaknesses with them too (Grass, Grass, and Electric, respectively).
-Water's two weaknesses, Grass and Electric, are very rarely used as STAB attacks. Additionally, Grass is a rather rare attacking type in the tier. In any case, Grass can be nullified with Sap Sipper and Electric can be nullified with Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, or Motor Drive.
-Water Absorb, Storm Drain, and Dry Skin can be put onto a Pokemon to pair with a Water-type sweeper to counter Imposters. For example, a STAB-only Palkia that is Impostered can be safely walled by a Storm Drain Xerneas.
Cons
-Dragon, a very common type that's present on most teams, resists Water.
-Grass weakness means it is vulnerable to Contrary users packing Leaf Storm. It is also vulnerable to Serene Grace users packing Seed Flare and the occasional sun-abuser packing Solar Beam (usually either Zard-Y or Mega-Houndoom looking for a way to bypass Kyogre).
-While it resists Ice, Electric is still paired with Ice attacks for Boltbeam coverage (most frequently seen is Kyu-B using Bolt Strike), which can hurt Water-types.
-While very rare in the current meta, the abilities Water Absorb, Storm Drain, and Dry Skin make the user completely immune to Water attacks not backed by Mold Breaker. Sure, it's nice you can use them to shut down Imposters, but it's not so nice when the opposing team is using these to shut down your Water-sweepers.
-Most usable Water-types are on the lower end of the speed tiers.
-Physical Water-type offense lacks variety as it has only two usable moves.
Notable Water Moves
These are standard moves you're likely to see on a Water-type Pokemon or something else utilizing Water-type coverage. They should the first ones to be considered when choosing a Water-type move.
-Crabhammer: At base power 100, this is the strongest physical move the Water-type has access to. While not bad, it's 90% accuracy can be a let down at times. Also, since it's a contact move, it's compatible with Tough Claws, which brings its power to an effective 133.
-Surf: A solid, no nonsense BP 90 special Water attack. At triple the PP of Steam Eruption, it can be the superior option if your team is in for the long haul since you can attack more freely without worries of running dry of PP.
-Scald: Basically a Surf that sacrifices a little power, dropping to 80 BP, that has a 30% chance to burn. Or alternatively, a Steam Eruption that sacrifices power for longevity. Handy for inflicting random burns, particularly on Flashfire users, while bypassing Taunt, Magic Bounce, and low PP issues. It can also be paired for Sheer Force for a stronger version of Surf at an effective BP 104.
-Steam Eruption: Packing a base power of 110 combined with a 30% burn chance, Steam Eruption is the move of choice for powerful sweepers who don't care that it only has 8 PP (or 90% accuracy). Like Scald, Steam Eruption is compatible with both Serene Grace and Sheer Force, getting a 60% burn chance and effective 143 BP, respectively.
Water Spout: This attack boasts an impressive BP of 150 with perfect accuracy. The catch? It's only that strong at full HP. As such, it's rarely viable to use it on something that can't outspeed most opponents, which means usually packing a Choice Scarf, or can't control the opponent enough to keep its own HP high. However, a boosted, full powered Water Spout is definitely a sight to behold... unless you're on the receiving end.
Niche Water Moves
These moves are generally used on specific sets for specific reasons or for running (keyword) effective gimmicks. These aren't your "standard" picks, but they have their place.
-Waterfall: At 80 BP, Waterfall is a bit weak to be considered a standard option over Crabhammer unless you really need the extra 8 PP (16 vs 24). However, it also has a small flinch chance that, while not notable on its own, makes the move compatible with Sheer Force. Under Sheer Force, Waterfall has an effective BP of 104, allowing it to barely edge out Crabhammer if you're using a physical Sheer Force sweeper with Water STAB or coverage.
-Judgement: With a Splash Plate, the user gets Water-typed Judgement, which can allow for stronger attack than Surf (BP 100 vs BP 90) with reasonable PP and/or for making Imposter resistant/immune sets (say, Water Judgement Chandelure). However, the user becomes vulnerable to Trick and Knock Off unless they have Sticky Hold for their ability, which means care must be taken lest the Judgement user become crippled.
-Techno Blast: With a Douse Drive, the user gets access to the strongest special Water attack that is not dependent on the user's HP. While it sits at a lofty BP 120, it also only has 8 PP, which means it is not automatically a better choice than Judgement. It also suffers the same vulnerabilities as Judgement does.
-Muddy Water: By sacrificing 8 PP and 15% accuracy, Muddy Water becomes a Surf that's compatible with Sheer Force via 30% chance for accuracy drops. Just keep in mind that, sooner or later, 85% accuracy is bound to let you down, which is likely why it's not seen often.
-Whirlpool: Infestation is usually better since it can't be blocked by Water Absorb, Dry Skin, and Storm Drain. However, these abilities are rare. Add that Infestation makes contact, which is a very bad thing in some circumstances, and Whirlpool does have its niche. It can also be used to kill all Shedinjas that do not pack either Magic Guard or a Red Card, should they stay in.
Water Shuriken: At BP 15, it's weaker than most moves used with Skill Link (or Technician if you're feeling lucky), which are typically BP 25. Essentially, that's 75 vs 125 for all unboosted hits. However, what it does offer is priority, which means it gives the user a slightly slower, slightly stronger Extreme Speed when paired with Skill Link. It can also be paired with a King's Rock in an attempt at flinch hax. Just keep in mind that this strategy isn't reliable on its own and you'll likely have to flinch something bulky multiple times in a row to have a chance of KOing it. And some, like PH Giratina, Gyardos-M and Kyogre, will just laugh at you.
Gimmick Water Moves
These moves are often very specific to certain sets or are are just flat out... well, gimmicky. In the right situations, they can be usable and even very deadly. However, you generally have to build your team around creating the right situations for these moves.
-Octazooka: BP 65 definitely leaves something to be desired in terms of damage and also, inconveniently, puts it just out of Technician range. However, with a 50% chance to drop the opponent's accuracy, and 100% under Serene Grace, it does have a niche of disrupting your opponent's attempts at attacking. (And inducing the occasional rage quit.) Just beware of an Imposter getting a hold of your Octazooka lest you become the rage quitter. (Or you could just run a Shield Dust or a No Guard user.)
-Rain Dance: It's usually better to pack Drizzle instead, but manual rain can be handy in the rare instance you decide you need the ability slot more than the moveslot and turn for set-up. And if weather wars become a thing again, it'd be handy for rain teams that want to keep rain in play on a predicted auto-weather starter switch-in.
-Aqua Ring: Basically Baton Passable Leftovers. It's a little bit better than Ingrain since you don't make yourself vulnerable to Perish Song or, worse, getting tricked a Choice item on the turn you set-up. However, the recovery amount is small, so there's very little beyond Baton Pass that can utilize it since the nature of BH often forces frequent switching. And even then you may very well have better uses for those move slots.
-Soak: There's a few niche uses for this move, such as eliminating type-based immunities, making things weak to Grass/Electric, removing an offensive sweeper's STAB, and forcing switches.
Water Moves Not to Use
There's a few moves that are used, typically by players new to the tier, that have a place in other tiers but are simply outclassed here. Usually it's more obscure moves being superior to common variants, but on occasion there's really just no excuse.
-Hydro Pump: Outclassed by Steam Eruption, which has the same power, higher accuracy, and a burn chance. Forgivable here since most people unfamiliar with this tier or Hackmons are probably unaware Steam Eruption even exists.
Aqua Tail: Outclassed by the often-forgotten Crabhammer, which has the same PP and accuracy but slightly higher power. Forgivable since almost nobody uses Kingler in standard.
-Hydro Cannon: You would think it would be obvious that Hyper Beam-esque moves are bad, but every so often I still see a Hydro Cannon or similar move thrown around. While the power is potentially devastating, the recharge turn can easily cause you to lose a match, even if you KO your target. (Plus, if it helps, when you factor in recharge, Hydro Cannon only has an effective BP of 75.)
Notable Water Pokemon
These Pokemon are usually quite common in the tier. Some aren't, but their threat potential is high enough and well known enough that they should be kept in mind. All teams should strive to be ready to handle these Pokemon and, if they're seeking a Water-type to use themselves, should probably look here first.
(Note: Any sets labeled as "Classic" are either direct Gen V sets or are heavily based on them.)
-Kyogre: With its high stats, it outclasses pretty much every other mono-Water type in the game. Kyogre can leverage 150 Special Attack to cause significant damage or utilize its 100/90/140 bulk to run support, sponge hits, or set-up relatively safely. The example sets are variants of its most common uses, and may not be the best variants (this is intended, before anyone complains), although it can easily perform other tasks.
Regenvest
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Assault Vest
Move 1: Surf
Move 2: Ice Beam
Move 3: Nuzzle
Move 4: Volt Switch
Offensive Poison Heal
Ability: Poison Heal
Item: Toxic Orb
Move 1: Steam Eruption
Move 2: Moon Blast
Move 3: Spore
Move 4: Quiver Dance
Support Prankster
Ability: Prankster
Item: Leftovers
Move 1: Encore
Move 2: Parting Shot
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Destiny Bond
-Palkia: With its high stats and rare typing, Palkia can be a frightening Pokemon to face down. However, Gen VI has not be kind to it as Palkia lost permanent rain, is 4x weak to the new Dry Freeze (for what that's worth), and now has to contend with Assault Vest users and Fairy-types, the latter of which can be immune to both of Palkia's STABs if they so choose. So, despite its power, Palkia is a fairly rare sight. However, being unprepared to handle its standard sets will more than likely spell your doom if you do bump into it. It's most well known for running Drizzle + Water Spout, usually backed by either Choice Specs or Choice Scarf, with Draco Meteor to hit Water-resistant targets.
Classic Drizzle Lead
Ability: Drizzle
Item: Choice Scarf/Specs
Move 1: Waterspout
Move 2: Draco Meteor
Move 3: Trick
Move 4: Recover
Classic Rain Abuse
Ability: Swiftswim
Item: Lustrous Orb
Move 1: Steam Eruption
Move 2: Spacial Rend
Move 3: Spore or Whirlpool
Move 4: Recover or Whirlpool
-Gyarados-Mega: One thing people asked for last generation was a good physical Water-typed attacker. Gyarados was therefore blessed with mega-powers to shed it's 4x Electric weakness and gain more power and bulk. Gyarados is frequently a set-up sweeper, often using Poison Heal, and typically smashes through things with Crabhammer while using Knock Off and Sacred Fire for coverage. While it has amazing utility, Knock Off does let Gyarados down by suffering a significant drop in power once the target's item is removed, which means some things, like Giratina, can wall and harass Gyarados instead of getting forced out or KOed. Meanwhile, its next best choice, Crunch, has a disappointing base power of only 80. Still though, Gyarados is still more than dangerous enough that it can't be taken lightly.
Offensive Poison Heal
Ability: Poison Heal
Item: Toxic Orb
Move 1: Crabhammer
Move 2: Knock Off
Move 3: Sacred Fire
Move 4: Shift Gear
Mega Evolution
Ability: Simple
Item: Gyaradosite
Move 1: Crabhammer
Move 2: Knock Off
Move 3: Sacred Fire
Move 4: Shift Gear
Niche Water Pokemon
There are some Pokemon that can be quite dangerous, but only function well on specific teams or with specific support. Or they may be reliant on a gimmick that only functions once or twice a match. A Pokemon falls into this "tier" if it hits the above requirements while still posing a consistent and credible threat to most teams while also not being outclassed in the role it's attempting to fill.
-Keldeo: While it doesn't have the most power around, and its 91/90/90 bulk can sometimes make it difficult to take hits, Keldeo breaks both the 100 and 105 speed tiers with its 108 speed, making it faster than pretty much all other usable Water-types, while still boasting good power in the form of 129 Special Attack. Keldeo's Water/Fighting typing allows it to abuse moves like Steam Eruption and Water Spout while having access to STAB Secret Sword to bypass dedicated special walls, such as non-Imposter Chansey. However, the advent and common usage of both Mega Mewtwos, who both outspeed Keldeo, make it harder to use this generation than previously.
Classic Drizzle Lead
Ability: Drizzle
Item: Choice Scarf/Specs
Move 1: Waterspout
Move 2: Secret Sword
Move 3: Trick
Move 4: Recover
Classic Rain Abuse
Ability: Adaptability or Swiftswim
Item: Life Orb or Safety Goggles or Lum Berry
Move 1: Steam Eruption
Move 2: Secret Sword
Move 3: Recover or Whirlpool
Move 4: Recover or Thunder
-Gyarados-Normal: Since mega-evolutions can now mega-evolve into themselves, as weird as that is, you might be wondering what role Gyarados-N can possible have? Simple: it does the same thing as the megalution abuse Gyrados-M does except it uses its Flying secondary typing to safely switch into Fighting or Ground attacks (that aren't Thousand Arrows) to set-up, which may be handy for Imposter-harassing. It could also abuse Aerilate/Gale Wings better than its Mega, but we're heading into theorymon territory there. Also, keep in mind that regular Gyra also has a 4x Electric weakness, which means it risks getting significantly hurt by even mundane things such as Cresselia's Volt Switch.
Example set is the same as Gyra-M's Mega Evolution set.
-Volcanion: Sporting a unique Fire/Water type combination, Volcanion is one of the few Water-types that does not fear Contrary Leaf Storm. It also has a STAB combination that's resisted by only opposing Water and Dragon-types and notably gets STAB on both Eruption and Waterspout. While not as bulky as Kyogre, it typically uses its typing to run a Regenvest set as, unlike Kyogre, it resists Pixelate users too. It could also potentially run special or mixed offensive sets thanks to its 110/130 attacking stats and useful STAB coverage, though its base 70 speed would hold it back if left unboosted.
Regenvest
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Assault Vest
Move 1: Scald/Steam Eruption
Move 2: Lava Plume/Searing Shot/Sacred Fire
Move 3: Rapid Spin
Move 4: Volt Switch
-Tentacruel: This Pokemon sits in a similar boat as Volcanion in not fearing Grass attacks and also resisting Pixelate. However, it also has a few unique quirks that give it a small niche over other Water-types, such as being able to remove Toxic Spikes on switch-in, perfectly accurate Toxic, being startlingly fast (base 100 speed, higher than other notables besides Keldeo), having surprisingly high special bulk, can safely switch into Prankster Venusaur-M's Black Sludge Trick, and able to threaten Xerneas and other fairies with its rarely seen Poison STAB. However, its offensives are on the low side, so outside of super-effective hits, it should be focusing on support or statusy moves. And also, like other niche Pokemon, you should only uses it when it synergizes with your team better than one of the standard Water or Poison types.
Regenvest
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Assault Vest
Move 1: Scald/Steam Eruption
Move 2: Sludge Wave
Move 3: Rapid Spin/Nuzzle/Sacred Fire
Move 4: Volt Switch/Another pick from Move 3
Do Not Use
These are Pokemon that may be mistaken as good by newer players when, in truth, they're either outclassed or they just don't have the stats needed to take advantage of their unique qualities. Most Pokemon not in the Notable or Niche lists will fit here, and many, if not all, of those on the Theorymons list may actually belong here too. If it's not listed anywhere, it's usually safe to assume it belongs here. However, there are undiscovered gems out there waiting to be found by those willing to experiment, but be sure you're trying them out for the right reasons and not for the sake of being different.
-Blastoise-Mega: One of the examples of "Mega-evoltution =/= instantly viable". Blastoise boasts higher Defense and very slightly Attack than Kyogre However, everything else is lower, including its HP, which compromises whatever advantage in physical bulk it might have had. And since Gyarados-M outdoes it in the physical offense department, Blastoise-M finds itself in an awkward position of being decent at either of their roles but not good enough at either to really take advantage of that.
Water Theorymons
These are Pokemon with interesting quirks that show potential, but have not been ran to consistent success. A lot of these may have had roles, prominent or niche, in the last generation and have since fallen to the wayside without being completely outclassed by something new. There's no promises that these Pokemon are any good, or even usable, in the tier and new players are discouraged from choosing these over anything in the Notable or Niche categories. These Pokemon are listed here purely to help more experienced players come up with new ideas for sets and teams. Any mentioned potential is either theory or based on last generation performance, so run these at your own risk.
-Jellicent: With its unique typing, Jellicent had a small niche in the last generation as a defensive/support Pokemon. However, it so far appears to be absent from this generation, perhaps due to the rise of threatening Dark and Ghost-types as well as permanent weather vanishing.
Support
Ability: Magic Bounce
Item: Leftovers
Move 1: Defog
Move 2: Will-o-Wisp
Move 3: Heal Bell
Move 4: Recover
-Lapras: Despite many weaknesses, it was surprisingly bulky and could take a number of hits. Last generation it largely functioned as a stall-based Pokemon on hail teams, boasting both a natural immunity to hail and a neutrality to Fire. It fell to the wayside with the weather nerf, but it does boast a 4x resistance to Ice without being weak to Thousand Arrows, a move that's been making Heatran sad, so it might have a niche in its massive resistances to Refrigerate sets.
Classic Poison Stall
Ability: Poison Heal
Item: Toxic Orb
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Spiky Shield
Move 3: Psycho Shift or Toxic
Move 4: Gastro Acid or Simple Beam or Worry Seed
-Cloyster: Like Lapras, it boasts 4x Ice resistance. Unlike Lapras, its bulk is lopsided. It can wall Kyurem-B to no end with its beyond impressive 180 Defense. However, with 50/45 special bulk, Kyurem-W and other special Refrigerate users would probably laugh at it.
-Azumarill: During the early days of Gen VI, Azumarill was speculated to be a good Palkia/Reshiram check since it naturally resisted Water Spout and Eruption and was also immune to Draco Meteor and Spacial Rend. However, with both Palkia and Reshiram being a rare sight, Azumarill was never called upon to take up the mantle of weather-dragon slayer. Whether it'll ever need to take up that role, or another, is questionable. However, offensively, the ban to Huge Power makes its damage output weaker than it is in standard.
Dragon Slayer
Ability: Adaptability
Item: Safety Goggles
Move 1: Play Rough
Move 2: Thousand Waves
Move 3: U-Turn
Move 4: Recover
-Arceus-Water: With 120 base spread, Arceus has great stats to utilize. However, the main problem with Arceus forms is that it requires both its ability and item slot to change from a Normal typing. On the other hand, this does mean any non-Normal Arceus is inherently resistant to Imposters and also immune to losing its item. As a Water-type, Arceus has a few possible niches: fastest Water-type in the tier, better mixed bulk than Kyogre, physical Water-sweeping without Gyarados' Fairy and Fighting weaknesses, and better mixed sweeping potential than anything else. However, despite its potential, Aquarceus remains unused.
Judgement Sweeper
Ability: Multitype
Item: Water Plate
Move 1: Judgement
Move 2: Blue Flare
Move 3: Quiver Dance/Tail Glow
Move 4: Recover
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Really nice job. This is an excellent resource, and I appreciate how comprehensive it is. You also chose a nice, underused type for it, which is cool. Now we just need more of these o.o
In my opinion the only real reason water is underused is because it's pretty much limited to ogre and gyarados, but the fact that grass and electric are so rare is why I currently think water is one of the best types currently. STAB scald is also fantastic, and the resistances screw with refridgerate users who usually opt for Ice/Ground/Fire coverage. I've even seen bolt strike on Kyurem-W just for Ogre which is pretty funny. I like the guide and I think it perfectly shows the strengths that the water typing possesses in the current (or past, depending on how things change) metagame.
I'd remove techno blast as a move though since it has less PP and base 120 power w/o plate means the imposter can hit you harder if you're not a ghost + the PP problem you mentioned is a pretty significant thing
Well, definitely going to update it once things stabilize and we know where everything is going, and probably make some more. Though if anyone has any modern Palk or Keldeo sets that would be worth mentioning, lemme know because I'd prefer to list more than just classic sets for them. I've not experimented with them recently beyond the old stuff.
Kl4ng Techno vs Judgement is really just a PP vs Power argument, which is more or less the same for Scald vs Steam Eruption. Stuff like Chandy and Heatran might be able to find some usage for it if Judgement isn't hitting hard enough for their tastes. I'd probably use Judgement myself because of PP though, but I tried to keep personal bias out of the guide.
Kl4ng Techno vs Judgement is really just a PP vs Power argument, which is more or less the same for Scald vs Steam Eruption. Stuff like Chandy and Heatran might be able to find some usage for it if Judgement isn't hitting hard enough for their tastes. I'd probably use Judgement myself because of PP though, but I tried to keep personal bias out of the guide.
Splash plate gives Judgment a 20% power boost, meaning they both effectively have the same base power. The drives on the other hand offer no such power boost.
Huh... for some reason I thought the Drive gave the boost too. I'll either remove it or move it to gimmick moves then when I update it later on (and gimmick only if, for some reason, you're absolutely afraid of Imposters holding the Splash Plate... which I'm not sure is even worth mentioning).
Naw man, technoblast has one amazing advantage over judgement:
It sounds like you're dropping the bass like WUBWUBWUBWUB
It sounds like you're dropping the bass like WUBWUBWUBWUB
I imagine the same thing with Boomburst every time; destroy walls with the power of dubstep
I think this battle is a good representation of the new BH meta:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-155165750
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-155165750
Nope, I asked him about it on his profile.
Welp I must say now that I have played this new BH quite bit and even tried to science on it, it just feels more... Negative than usual.
Everything is just so fucking frail its not even funny. Boltstrike 2ohkoin a reshiram with no boosts? Done that. Regigigas doesnt feel as bulky as it was now that even neutral moves chip off a big chunk of its health.
It's just.. Despressing really. So far I've seen that -ate spam is highly effective (and i started running good old cube blocker due of it) and imposters are just death incarnate.
Chansey imposter napping a sweeper that is not importer proof in the current state will cause major damage now that even checks are shit ton of more frailer than ever.
Basicly over half of my matches have been "try snatch enemy sweeper/-ate user with chansey".
Now whats even more despressing about this is that in the current state, the power is just too much, and if there's nothing done sadly BH might just have to ban pokemons themselves like the mewtwos and I really don't like the idea of banning pokemons in BH at all.
and I really fear what the primal groudon and kyogre would bring to the meta in the current state when the time comes..
Everything is just so fucking frail its not even funny. Boltstrike 2ohkoin a reshiram with no boosts? Done that. Regigigas doesnt feel as bulky as it was now that even neutral moves chip off a big chunk of its health.
It's just.. Despressing really. So far I've seen that -ate spam is highly effective (and i started running good old cube blocker due of it) and imposters are just death incarnate.
Chansey imposter napping a sweeper that is not importer proof in the current state will cause major damage now that even checks are shit ton of more frailer than ever.
Basicly over half of my matches have been "try snatch enemy sweeper/-ate user with chansey".
Now whats even more despressing about this is that in the current state, the power is just too much, and if there's nothing done sadly BH might just have to ban pokemons themselves like the mewtwos and I really don't like the idea of banning pokemons in BH at all.
and I really fear what the primal groudon and kyogre would bring to the meta in the current state when the time comes..
One thing I've found so far is that Fur Coat is significantly more useful than before. With mixed offense basically only being a thing from -ates right now, Fur Coat blunts most priority. So far I've seen it used on everything from Ytwo to Giratina and it tends to be really annoying. I'm predicting an increase in Mold Breaker offense as a counter to this, possibly followed by a resurgence in mixed offense.
Also Heatran is very useful because 4X resistances to so much stuff.
While stall is not quite as dead as some people feared (or hoped) I think that an accurate description of much of the meta at the moment is "Freeform nuke tennis"
Also Heatran is very useful because 4X resistances to so much stuff.
While stall is not quite as dead as some people feared (or hoped) I think that an accurate description of much of the meta at the moment is "Freeform nuke tennis"
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Yea, I can testify that Fur Coat is great for ESpeed spam while RegenVest is great for Boomburst. In fact, I'm currently running dual Darm-Z, one Fur Coat and the other RegenVest. Honestly the RegenVest has been pulling more weight than the Fur Coat and I honestly might ditch the Fur Coat one for something else that can take Knock Offs. Aerilate was kinda hard to handle, so Heatran/Registeel might be better suited than Darm-Z (but I like Darm-Z). Stall definitely took a hit but it's still usable.
Also Protean MMX needs to leave
Also Protean MMX needs to leave
Technoblast's other advantage over Judgement it's that it's stronger in case you get Knocked Off. Other than that Judgement is always better.
Both are normal type moves, neither affect ghosts
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
in the end judgement 100% outclasses techno blast because your stab move probably outdamages ANYTHING worth hitting with normal type technoblast thus making "out damaging" completely irrelevant even in the rare chance you DO get knocked off. there's no comparison. technoblast is purely used for a impossible to imposter set, like kits bulletproof mega gengar with ice technoblast otherwise judgement is just better.
Maybe it's just me still sticking to my old teams, but BH doesn't seem like it plays that differently. My TR team still suffers because of it's bad synergy (though Escalvalier's Gyro Ball OHKOs some stuff now :D), my semi-stall team still wears the opponent down before nuking them with its sweeper, my unfinished OU to BH conversion team still functions just beneath acceptably, etc. Granted, I've only tried four of my seven or eight teams right now, so maybe the others will either see amazing improvements or become completely useless?
Also, granted, outside of Imposter Chansey, I've really not seen anyone abusing all the stuff we're worried about. Tons of stuff like Power Herb Geomancy, White Herb Shell Smash, Contrary-everything (Psycho Boost Kyu-B...wut?), and so forth though. Still though, way too early to call anything, especially since it looks like a bunch of new players are running around. Besides, I need to see more -ates and Proteans in action... maybe I'll build a team specifically to do that. Although that denies me trying to see if my teams can handle being on the receiving end of stuff like Boomburst + Moon Blast + Earth Power LO Ytwo...
Also, granted, outside of Imposter Chansey, I've really not seen anyone abusing all the stuff we're worried about. Tons of stuff like Power Herb Geomancy, White Herb Shell Smash, Contrary-everything (Psycho Boost Kyu-B...wut?), and so forth though. Still though, way too early to call anything, especially since it looks like a bunch of new players are running around. Besides, I need to see more -ates and Proteans in action... maybe I'll build a team specifically to do that. Although that denies me trying to see if my teams can handle being on the receiving end of stuff like Boomburst + Moon Blast + Earth Power LO Ytwo...
As a heads up, this isn't actually true -- you can still local battle with mons with more than 510 EVs...I just verified it myself.
So, you know, it is possible for two trainers to battle using two X/Y cartridges and two 3DSs with mons with more than 510 EVs.
Evidence of some kind...?
I can record a video later, I guess?
Not sure what kind of evidence would suffice here.