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what happens to all the breasts? now i'm really curious o_O. are breasts like a waste product in China like feet etc are in America?
but yeah the chicken breast is super iconic in western cuisine, and is often put into stuff that it really shouldn't be in (e.g. chinese food). dark meat has so much more flavor anyway, but i find american food to be much more basic / about the toppings than about inherent flavor, so maybe that's it.
but yeah, panda express is basically the epitome of really really bastardized chinese food that only very faintly resembles what it's inspired by
As far as I know about Hong Kong, the breasts get shipped to Australia, and Australia ships their chicken wings to us. Because Australians don't seem to eat chicken wings.
You can also buy chicken breasts for a cheap price, so it doesn't really go to waste.
Some canteens offer $5 cheaper for chicken breasts compared to chicken legs.
jynx: i once recently said "people who put ice in their juice are retarded." Do i really think that juice-icers are really just a subset of the mentally disabled population? Of course not lol. It's just a (rather crude, admittedly) American way of expressing a strong opinion (that I don't like ice in my juice), and I mean no harm to (nor is any received by) an American audience.
See jynx this is what pisses me off. There are definitely people, we've all met them, some of them americans, who would take offense to that usage of retarded. There is no homogenous american audience that reacts the same to everything.
In a similar vein, when he said "nobody likes jynx what a shit pokemon lmao" you should not have taken offense, because all he was really expressing is "i personally do not jynx and I haven't talked to many people who do." I, for example, might say "nobody likes the Dallas Cowboys lmfao" despite the fact that the team has millions of fans nationwide because I personally think they're shit and I'm from an area where most people are Ravens or Redskins fans.
Basically the takeaway is that 1) hyperbole is colloquial in America for stating that you strongly hold a position instead of using an adverb like "strongly" and 2) you should probably never take offense to an insult issued by an American (especially if they're male), because they are always either in jest or used abstractly to make a point and rarely actually used to insult someone.
So the proper response would have been like what Von suggested, "well I like jynx because (reasons)."
Nope, being imprecise and heavy handed, in a rude way, in your expressions is not a colloquial americanism. Try spinning that language around your American grandparents, bb. See how they react.
Further, I an american, and therefore an american audience, am not offended by your usage of retarded, but I am 'oh-so' offended at your rationalizations via appeals to the perceptions of a homogenous american audience. I'd like to think I and many others are much DIFFERENT than that.
I'm so looking forward to an argument about whether hyperbole is a 'colloquial in America for stating that you strongly hold a position instead of using an adverb'. like, rly??? what does that even mean...
also feel free to take offense at insulting things americans do and say, i do, all the time.
You're arguing about stereotypes here. The point he is trying to make is that in general, Americans express opinions differently. Admittedly, some Americans are acutely oversensitive to language, but that does not counter the point (as true or untrue as it may be). This argument, and the purpose of the whole thread, is discussing generalisations between cultures.
If you are arguing that american language is more heterogeneous than some other language, then make that claim. Pointing out that some people are different than others isn't helping much.
Well... English itself is more heterogeneous than any other language due to the amount of colonies Britannia used to have.
But that said, English from an American is very different from English from a British/ Aussie/ Canadian, etc.
Of course, this is generalization. There will always be exceptions but you can't deny the possibility of a generalization.
Generalization isn't racist when it is true, which I think this is what Myzozoa had always been worrying.
Back on the discussion: So is it rude or not?? I'm confused.
this is probably a horrible answer but it's the best i got
rude is subjective, and contextual. in many contexts, for instance, the banter that goes on back and forth on showdown and smogon, phrases like "no ur retarded" and "hi fgt" that are denotatively offensive are commonplace and even arguably used in an endearing way. Saying that all americans go around calling everything retarded and worthless is a gross overexaggeration, but there is definitely a level of acceptance among more young groups of this language.
so yes, it has the potential to be rude, and there are plenty of people who would consider it rude regardless of the context its placed in. however, many times, its intent is not to be rude but rather as more of a flippant jibe of some sort. for instance
me: omg i found a new gimmick its rly good i promise
meru (a lovely smogonite who spouts this stuff all the time): no go die in a hole you're so dumb stop using shitty gimmicks
as weird as this may sound, I know perfectly well that meru isn't telling me to die in a hole, or even to go away. it's not even a request for me to stop talking, it's just a strange way of affirming that he saw the message and is reading.
so yeah, those phrases are used in more benign senses here, but that doesn't mean they can't be and aren't used in a manner that's just rude and offensive. it's rly all about context
the two sections bolded in this post are confusing me btw, perhaps im held to a double standard
1. his post does not make any sense, nor do americansuse hyperbole as a colloquial way of avoiding adverbs.
2. his point is obviously not true, or else only true tautologically. (duh americans express themselves differently)
3. I actually did present a 'counter stereotype' to his stereotype:
Americans in general do not express themselves as pwnemon has described, but teenage boys on xbox live do... look billy im giving you all kinds of stereotypes that better explain whats going on.
Admittedly, some Americans are acutely oversensitive to language, but that does not counter the point (as true or untrue as it may be). This argument, and the purpose of the whole thread, is discussing generalisations between cultures.
so what DOES counter a point made through a stereotype? i claimed that a significant set of the population called americans does not express themselves in these ways. what more could I do? I have now proposed that the claim was being misapplied to americans when it should in fact be applied to american teenagers on xbox live..
Would you all call someone a (BAN ME PLEASE) in real life? inb4 '(BAN ME PLEASE) and retard are way different words'
If you are arguing that american language is more heterogeneous than some other language, then make that claim. Pointing out that some people are different than others isn't helping much.
No that is not my point. wtf, that is obviously not my point... as there is no way of interpreting my post to say that. i never refer to an american language only an american audience.
my point was that americans express themselves differently than each other, which is no more or less tautological than what you claim pwnemon's point is.
lol at this forum's coding, you can replace the 'ban me please' with a word for 'homosexual' people starting with the letter f
1. his post does not make any sense, nor do americansuse hyperbole as a colloquial way of avoiding adverbs.
2. his point is obviously not true, or else only true tautologically. (duh americans express themselves differently)
3. I actually did present a 'counter stereotype' to his stereotype:
Well from my point of view, it is your stuff that doesn't make any sense. (As usual)
And about time for you to know that I'm a she.
Also, I'm pretty sure the "he" from Billymills refers to me, but you seem to be talking about Pwnemon.
You thought I said what Pwnemon said.
Try reading each of our posts more carefully.
Vague wording on my part. The first sentence meant that I assumed Pawnmon was implying Americans use language, on average, noticeably differently than some population of 'Easterners,' of which he was describing some examples.
Americans in general do not express themselves as pwnemon has described, but teenage boys on xbox live do... look billy im giving you all kinds of stereotypes that better explain whats going on.
You said you were arguing against stereotypes. You explained my problems with your post already.
so what DOES counter a point made through a stereotype? i claimed that a significant set of the population called americans does not express themselves in these ways. what more could I do? I have now proposed that the claim was being misapplied to americans when it should in fact be applied to american teenagers on xbox live..
Then he should have qualified it to American youth. I don't particularly care for the argument he was making, but I don't think it should be driven off topic by indisputable arguments claiming teenagers talk differently than their grandparents.
Googles panda express...
And... "Shiitake kale chicken breast". I doubt shiitake kale is anything Chinese. Also, chicken breast? Chicken breast is Western food. Chinese don't eat chicken breasts. We eat chicken wings, thighs, drumsticks, and feet, but NOT chicken breasts.
(And pretty much all the chicken from this restaurant is chicken breast, ewww... no thank you)
This is a late response, but isn't this essentially the same response from Westerners about eating dog that bothered you? Like I find it really weird that you don't eat chicken breast to be completely honest, but I'm not going to harass you about it because there isn't anything wrong with not eating chicken breast, I pretty much don't care at all what you eat for the most part (that includes dog).
I mean this thread is also predicated on labeling large and diverse groups of people as a homogeneous entity (ie Westerners are so rude!, Westerners think eating dog is barbaric!, etc.) so I guess what I'm trying to say is why do you let the fact that some people see your culture as weird or foreign bother you, when to them it probably is weird or foreign, just as you have expressed certain of aspects of Western culture are weird / foreign to you.
Do other Asian countries follow the Chinese phenomenon of taking pictures of westerners as if they are celebrities? It is quite annoying and for all I know my pic is probably on some random chinese QQer's newsfeed. I sort of get why it happens, but I think it is quite extreme. Also, telling them to put their cameras/phones away in Chinese only increased their fascination......can't win. I try not to mind it too much, but it gets pretty ridiculous when you visit some popular tourist sites.
I only glanced at the thread title so I'm sorry if this isn't the right place for this.
I think it depends on how exposed to foreigners they are.
If people from that place rarely encounter foreigners, they are going to get hyped seeing one.
Whereas people in Hong Kong, who are exposed to foreigners almost everyday, don't share this hype.
This is a late response, but isn't this essentially the same response from Westerners about eating dog that bothered you? Like I find it really weird that you don't eat chicken breast to be completely honest, but I'm not going to harass you about it because there isn't anything wrong with not eating chicken breast, I pretty much don't care at all what you eat for the most part (that includes dog).
I mean this thread is also predicated on labeling large and diverse groups of people as a homogeneous entity (ie Westerners are so rude!, Westerners think eating dog is barbaric!, etc.) so I guess what I'm trying to say is why do you let the fact that some people see your culture as weird or foreign bother you, when to them it probably is weird or foreign, just as you have expressed certain of aspects of Western culture are weird / foreign to you.
No. Because we never said it was immoral. And we never mocked anyone who ate chicken breasts, nor did we establish any groups for anti-chicken-breast eating.
It is simply that we don't like the texture of it, that we would choose not to eat it IF we have other choices.
This is totally a different level compared to the degree of attacks we get from animal rights groups.
We do eat chicken breasts when 1. it's the only thing left, 2. offered in a much cheaper price.
We DON'T go to disturb Westerners about eating chicken breasts.
That's my main point.
We are angry about the anti-dog meat thing MAINLY because they coined us immoral and cruel.
I've always been focusing on the attitude, not the practice.
Westerners express hate/ negativity much strongly compared to Asians.
Vague wording on my part. The first sentence meant that I assumed Pawnmon was implying Americans use language, on average, noticeably differently than some population of 'Easterners,' of which he was describing some examples.
I don't see any examples about 'easterners' (lel) in pwnemon's posts in this thread, unless user jynx is the example he was using... (and thats pretty rude? but this entire thread is 'predicated' on being rude af so w.e)
im now pretty sure that im the only person foolish enough to reply to this thread that has actually read any of this thread's shit show of bad anecdotes, obviously wrong cultural explanations, etc (see the last sentence of the above post for another example). I am being 'called out' for questioning some of this bullshit: since apparently you can make a thread dedicated to seeing how many times you can repeat terrible logics for 'edgy' results, and this apparently makes 'good' (at least in terms of being less bull shit, or more of aware of the bullshit) posts seem weird and off-topic I suppose.
also note how no one has really asked about any 'real important culture differences' (which is why i feel fine calling most of this thread shit). such things as:
How is (math) education being handled differently in asia? How do we account for the disparity across cultures? this is a real application worthy of investigation, imo, not like a discussion of who eats which part of the chicken.
2. 'Revisionism' in 'Eastern' history curriculums. for example in japan, pearl harbor is written out of history textbooks in schools, as well as a lot of stuff about Korean and chinese occupation during world war 2 (afaik, maybe this has changed). in america, russia and native americans are written out of history curriculums.
3. How does 'one culture', or an individual from 'one culture', acquire knowledge of 'another culture'? Are the terms of one culture always commensurable with the terms of another? Are they ever? What difficulties does one encounter in trying to make sense of the practices of a culture one is unfamiliar with? Is it just a matter of translation, like a language, cultural meanings just need to be translated to the terms of other cultures?
Now suppose that we have someone from America, who goes to live with a 'tribe' of native north americans (what would now be called Canada is more what I have in mind, but this is just an example) in order to study their culture's practices. After some time and some embarrassment, this person eventually comes to feel included in the community and develops some ideas about how to explain some parts of the culture in the terms of American culture. But how do they prove to their audience back at home that they actually DID ever become integrated in that community, how can they provide evidence that they actually understand that culture well enough to report on it? After all, bitches like me would be more inclined to believe that this American probably doesn't have a fucking clue about how those people understand the world. It seems likely that all her interactions with the community are necessarily marked by her difference from the community, her vary presence will change the way the community behaves as they 'perform for the outsider' and possibly even hide certain things from her. Further, her differing past experiences will cause her future experiences of the tribe to be mediated differently than the way the tribe members experiences are mediated. The only evidence she can really provide would either be hard facts and statistics (w.e), and/or confessionary anecdotes of her lived experience. Ought we to trust her, the ethnographer?
If the answer is no, to the last question, does it follow that this thread is shit? (note that a yes answer would not make this thread not shit)
key terms to help with 3:
Technology of Evidence
Ethnography is a ‘technology of evidence, others include statistics, official reports, literature, and oral histories. We might treat these technologies of evidence as non-competitive, that means that we do not privilege one over the other as the most conclusive form of evidence. All forms of evidence require translation, not just in its literal sense (translation from one recognized language to another, which is often, but not always, involved), but also in a wider sense: For instance in an ethnography, the ethnographer “translates” their experience of the group studied through their own research focus and their own interpretive lens.
Ethnography
From Greek “Ethnos” (people) and “Grapho” (Write). Ethnography is a method that is particularly prominent in the discipline of anthropology. Literally the “writing of culture,” it attempts to give a written representation of a certain (sub-)cultural group which the ethnographer has studied. Ethnographers often immerse themselves for a certain time period of time in the group studied, conducts interviews, but may also study reports, art, literature, and other forms of material culture.
Ethnography
A research method frequently used by anthropologists and other social scientists that consists of participant observation, formal and informal interviews, surveys, archival research, and other methods of data collection. This method is used primarily to gather knowledge of cultures and cultural formations. It is often thought of as determining one’s relationship with an “other.” This method is based solely on the work of an ethnographer (i.e., the person conducting the research, which is known as fieldwork) who analyzes and determines the meaning given to the collected data. Thus, the ethnographer should generally observe the society or culture being studied from the point of view of the subject of study. Ethnographic research, however, may sometimes reflect the cultural bias or prejudices of the ethnographer. This method of research has therefore been critiqued as a “compromised tool” that reflects only the limited experiences of the ethnographer and not representative of the entire culture being studied. Nevertheless, ethnography remains a valuable research tool for gaining perspective on various cultures and societies.
Veracity narrative: The field study resulting from ethnographic research reflects the knowledge or system of meanings of the group or culture being studied. It is often told in the form of a story or narrative. Questions may then arise as to the truthfulness (or veracity) of this narrative. Has the ethnographer provided an unbiased account of the subject of study? Or is the research tainted by the cultural bias and prejudices of the ethnographer? Additionally, an ethnographer’s fieldwork is based on his or her individual experiences. A different ethnographer conducting the same research and using the same research questions will likely have different individual experiences that influence their research. There are thus a number of factors that influence the veracity of the narrative being told in the ethnography. Consequently, it may be argued that ethnographic research does not deliver truth in its absolute form.
In a topic like this, where the discussion is general and primarily about cultural clashes, yes, you're mostly going to see discussion based around generalisations of cultural values.
Does it follow that such a discussion is entirely pointless? not really, it's a starting point to a place of mutual understanding.. or at least it was until people ITT started having a massive prick waving dick fight.
3. How does 'one culture', or an individual from 'one culture', acquire knowledge of 'another culture'? Are the terms of one culture always commensurable with the terms of another? Are they ever? What difficulties does one encounter in trying to make sense of the practices of a culture one is unfamiliar with? Is it just a matter of translation, like a language, cultural meanings just need to be translated to the terms of other cultures?
It basically suggests that you have not encountered cultural shock yourself.
\
Here are a few basic ways to learn:
1. From mistakes/ shocks.
2. Trial and error.
3. Ask (ie: THIS THREAD)
4. Learning from a book or journal is basically a compilation of the 1~3 of someone else.
havent forgotten that you think/thought every brit has a pony, so check yourself while youre busy privileging ur own experiences and making assumptions about mine.
ps: the only post so far where a user has brought up a particular common interaction/experience to discuss is thatsjustpeachy, which came after my post...
if you're 'innocently' 'curious' thats fine, but have some perspective on what you end up saying about large groups of people, or even just one person.
About those animal rights groups that you say "attack" your culture: you'd be crazy to think that all Americans are on board with this. While yes, most Americans don't support the consumption of dog meat, a lot of these animal rights groups are laughed at in mainstream society for being too extreme among other things (at least in the South; as you probably know there are pretty big differences between the North and South US). There are definitely many animal rights groups that we support, but usually these are much less extreme than what you describe.
I do know that over-generalization an entire group of people is not very accepted and it's not nice.
But if you want to voice out about that, you could have said "I don't think it's nice to..." or "I don't find it acceptable", "it's not a very good idea".
Instead of attacking other aspects of my posts such as "logically wrong" "tautologically", which is hardly the core of the problem anyway.
I do this over-generalization thing even when I know it's not nice, is because, I want people to learn.
It is more of an experiment to see what people would do/ say/ feel when they are discriminated against.
Because you see this, undoubtedly, white people is still the dominant social group, and the same social group (according to studies and reports) to deny racism or other discrimination.
There are studies about how it's because people won't see it unless they are discriminated against.
It is a way for people to experience how unpleasant it is to have someone discriminating you, and learn from it.
And I think Smogon is a place where most people are mature and knowledgeable to learn about this.
It does NOT mean that I'd do this in real life.
It does NOT mean that I think it's right.
I don't think you understand what Myzozoa is getting at. The point is, the assumption that there is such a thing as "the West" or "the East" is completely arbitrary and artificial. The world is a very complex place and there is no homogenous entity such as "Westerners/Easterners" (or "Americans") whose "behaviours" and "ways of thinking" can be explained by such sweeping generalizations. I know you're trying to learn more about other cultures, but your way of thinking is too simplistic and it seems to me that this thread is more about reinforcing and justifying already existing stereotypes ("I am an easterner! Westerners are rude! Easterners eat dogs, Westerners insult them for it!") and less about meaningful discussion about cultures and cultural differences-- such a discussion should be tackled from an entirely different perspective.
havent forgotten that you think/thought every brit has a pony, so check yourself while youre busy privileging ur own experiences and making assumptions about mine.
Or how she, a non-minority in her own country, thinks that the black woman who tried ban Jynx (the pokemon) was "just being racist against asians".
Jynx (the person) I think you need put yourself in other people's shoes more often. The vast majority of your threads are you playing the victim while stereotyping other people and showing astoundingly little caring when actual minorities feel that they have been victimized.
Or how she, a non-minority in her own country, thinks that the black woman who tried ban Jynx (the pokemon) was "just being racist against asians".
Jynx (the person) I think you need put yourself in other people's shoes more often. The vast majority of your threads are you playing the victim while stereotyping other people and showing astoundingly little caring when actual minorities feel that they have been victimized.
Hong Kong is and was over 90% ethnic Chinese. Being governed by a foreign body is quite a different issue but that ended 17 years ago. How old were you when that happened?
Why not start with...
Ok, why not start with answering this: Myzozoa said something like: gender gap in mathematics not exist in Asia. What's the difference in the education?
Answer:
Mathematics is indeed taught differently.
In Asia, mathematics usually is the subject with the most homework. It is a matter of practice to practice doing the same sums over and over again until you are familiar with it.
A regular 13 year-old could possibly be doing more than 2 hours of maths homework per day, consisting of similar sums.
After doing that, it is also very common for people to do extra mathematical training outside school.
A notable example is the "Kumon" mathematics program. It consists of exercises and you are required to time yourself every time you do the papers.
To a point, memorization is involved. And girls are mostly the ones who can sit more still, and more dedicated to doing the sums.
However, as I recall, maths in the UK consists of almost no homework. And they would rather students to figure out themselves, compared to being told to memorize.
Hong Kong is and was over 90% ethnic Chinese. Being governed by a foreign body is quite a different issue but that ended 17 years ago. How old were you when that happened?
Oh my god i'm sorry i said something so bad that myzo had to shit up this whole thread to distance himself from it
Does ALL of america follow the speech patterns i laid out in that earlier post? Of course not. That goes without saying. But if Jynx runs into someone who says "lol nobody likes jynx" there is a 99% chance that said person IS a member of the people who would speak like i described, which is the important thing in this situation. Yes there are other background factors than simply being "American" that contribute to that pattern of speech (age probably being the main one, with lack of a tumblr a close second) but the relevant one was again, "American."
And yes jynx is bad at seeing others' points of view but can we not villify her for asking? Like seriously she is doing the right thing by getting clarification instead of just judging silently ~_~
And von if you read any of jynx's other threads you'd know that china is basically trolling the hell out of hong kong so
Well... to be fair, I wasn't right, but people are acting like I've insulted someone with an ethnic slur or what, or denied to employ someone due to race.
I didn't insult anyone, dudes, what's with this attitude?
And can we have peace and return to the discussion?
2. West: "Dogs are man's best friend"
Just WTF?? Why dogs? What about your cat? What about your horse?
There has never been any scientific support to this statement, but a lot of Westerners love to state it.
Also... does that suggest you have problems with other humans?
Did you really ask for scientific evidence for a subjective cultural phrase? I just want to make it clear how ridiculous this is. As for 3, Westerners certainly are against eating dog but not because it is cruel but because it is "wrong" which is subjective but I just want to make it clear that it isn't a cruelty thing but rather a moral thing. Objectively it's not very different from eating cattle but I still couldn't do it because I have dogs and the culture I was brought up in. I have never heard of 1 so I can't comment on it.
Anyways if you really want something scientific to the phrase "dog are mans best friend" just consider that dogs have been domesticated longer than anything else we as humans have domesticated, including crops and other animals.
