ORAS General Discussion - Mark 2 - Spoilers Inside

[Patrick1088]

Oh snap, groudon finally has the edge over kyogre. I love the fact that water evaporated lol i think omega is winning me over lol

Has anybody given any thought if the primal versions and megas can be used on the same team?

And after seeing camerupt in the trailer, i do enjoy how it looks!

All i can say is thank goodness my birthdays in 3 weeks and im getting a gamestop giftcard. This is turning into an expensive year between SSB and ORAS lol

 

[QueenOfHax]

Does anyone else find ironic that Primal Groudon's only weakness is ground?

 

[Rechi]

PRAISE THE FUCKING SUN

 

[stage7_4]

I wonder if the new weathers keep the perks of Drizzle and Drought along with their new bonuses (i.e. activating swift swim/chlorophyll, powering up water/fire attacks, no-charge solarbeam, 100% thunder). I guess these perks are lessened due to the "permanent but only while on the field," but I'm sure Kyogre and Groudon will like to keep their thunder and solarbeams.

Also curious about weather wars too, since will blocking weather changes effect even the new ones? Can you switch Primal Kyogre into Primal Groudon and change it? Or would it be supressed? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

While I love rain and Kyogre, I'm glad Groudon got a boost.

 

[Gerard]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that Kyogre isn't immune to Ground, because now Groudon still has it's main STAB and can fire off very strong Earthquakes. And if you want to get REALLY obscure it can still have an advantage with Thunderpunch from Tutors - give Kyogre Earth Power plz?
Still, that's just 1 vs 1. I figure they'll be as usable as each other in Ubers and such.

If Kyogre switches into Groudon then the weather changes and Groudon is forced to switch so something's gonna take that boosted water attack.
I agree it's much better for Groudon than for Kyogre but how is that a bad thing? Kyogre has been the big winner for 3 gens now, Groudon deserved to win for a change.

 

[QueenOfHax]

Protip: if you want to make sure you win the weather war, minimize speed EVs/IVs, set a -speed nature and most importantly set your Primal's level to 99.

 

[Kurona]

If Kyogre switches into Groudon then the weather changes and Groudon is forced to switch so something's gonna take that boosted water attack.
I agree it's much better for Groudon than for Kyogre but how is that a bad thing? Kyogre has been the big winner for 3 gens now, Groudon deserved to win for a change.

Because I'd prefer for them to be equal? As would most everyone who wants Groudon vs. Kyogre to make thematic sense?
I also wasn't saying it was a bad thing so why'd you suddenly go for that?
Regardless, it does seem they're on much more equal footing now - who wins seems to depend much more on the skill and training of the trainer rather than the matchup itself, so I like this a lot.

 

[Cainchin]

Groudon is forced to switch so something's gonna take that boosted water attack.

Gastrodon will help Primal Groudon with the tasting of tears Primal Kyogre will make because of the dust of Desolate Lands!!

 

[Gerard]

Well, they're as equal as they're gonna get. The only other solution would have been something like Water / Electric Kyogre.
And remember Groudon NEEDS to Primal for him to have even a chance against Kyogre, Kyogre has never had such a need so Kyogre can use Swift Swim Mega Swampert (who still has a SE STAB against Groudon if it goes Mega)

 

[Siggu]

Primal Groudon's ability is BRUTAL on itself, though it sacrifices supporting abilities with it. That means you can even slap it on weatherless teams to beat any Kyogre that dares to stomp on your team, but as I stated in the previous sentence, it means you cannot use it as a sun setter.

Primal Kyogre, however, does not like this ability. Its strength relied not only on itself becoming extremely powerful but rain being awesome regardless of the inducer. I guess that it can work in Weatherless just like Primal Groudon can.

 

[stage7_4]

Protip: if you want to make sure you win the weather war, minimize speed EVs/IVs, set a -speed nature and most importantly set your Primal's level to 99.

Wouldn't that be overkill? I mean, sure all this talk of Kyogre vs. Groundon and avoiding speed ties is great in 1 on 1, but they don't exist in a closed system. You've got at least 5 others 'mons to worry about, you might want that extra speed.

 

[Cainchin]

I don't know if this was on Serebii but I read official information from the Pokemon company of Spain which gives details and confimation that Mega-Gallade main boost in Stats will be in Attack and Speed.

 

[gabriel]

Here's something I posted on Wednesday:

I really hope Primal Groudon's new ability gives it water-type immunity as long as Drought's activated. Ironically, this would actually make it a great switch-in against Primal Kyogre, specially when you consider the likely OHKO from a buffed EQ. Primal Kyogre getting immunity to fire-type moves would pretty meh, which is fine considering the rain already boosts its main moves, something Groudon won't be able to say unless it gets Flare Blitz and it's still nothing comparable to the recoil-free Water Spout.

If Groudon gets Water Immunity, there'll finally be some balance between RS legendaries. They'll be able to seriously threaten each other and will basicaly compete to see who wins the weather war. That's how their in-game relationship is supposed to be right? That's so much better than the Kyogre-pwns-Groudon-scenario we've had ever since RSE.

Thank you GF. It's been almost 12 years, but finally Groudon will be able to put up a good fight!

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

So to summarize. the mechanics as I'm understanding them are:

Desolate Land: makes the weather "extremely harsh sunlight" which has all the affects of regular sun, but now Water attacks all have no affect. Instead of lasting for a certain number of turns the weather conditions remains active as long as the Pokemon with the ability is on the field. Additionally extremely harsh sunlight can not be "overwritten" by other weather except from the affect of Primordial Sea.

Premoridal Sea: makes the weather "heavy rain" which has all the affects if regular rain, but now Fire attacks have no affect. Instead of lasting for a certain number of turns the weather conditions remains active as long as the Pokemon with the ability is on the field. Additionally heavy rain can not be "overwritten" by other weather except from the affect of Desolate Land

Some mechanics to wonder about:

• Do these affect apply to status moves of the canceled type? (can you use Will-O-Wisp in heavy rain?)
• Is weather 100% conditional on the ability? (if you Gastro Acid a Primal Kyogre does heavy rain go away? and if not does it become possible to change the weather with regular weather changing moves/abilities?)
• Do these abilities override existing weather permanently? (if Sun is going to be active on the field for 7 more turns and Primal Kyogre makes an entrance and then leaves within 2 turns does the weather revert back to sun or does it revert to clear skies?)

Finally, one important thing to keep in mind is that Groudon >/ Kyogre still. They just both became checks to each other. Like, Groudon can switch into Kyogre now but if Groudon is on the field and Kyogre comes in it sure as hell'd better get off the field. Basically you can't necessarily rely on Primal Groudon alone as your one anti Kyogre mon because it only works if you don't already have it out. At the same time there's a real shortage of things that can switch into Water Spout so adding another big name to the list will be great. I imagine Gastradon will be significantly less used.
The implications of the new affects seem way bigger for Groudon. But Kyogre benfits a little too. It now never has to worry about Sacred Fire burns on the switch and other pesky stuff. And beyond that, the ability to cancel out all Fire or all Water moves has all kinds of HUGE implications on double battles.

 

[Siggu]

Do these abilities override existing weather permanently? (if Sun is going to be active on the field for 7 more turns and Primal Kyogre makes an entrance and then leaves within 2 turns does the weather revert back to sun or does it revert to clear skies?)

This one is explained in the game's website: Desolate Land and Primordial Sea override the existing weather, and when Primal Groudon or Kyogre switches out, weather wears off completely.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

This one is explained in the game's website: Desolate Land and Primordial Sea override the existing weather, and when Primal Groudon or Kyogre switches out, weather wears off completely.

So no other pokemon can take advantage of the weather?

 

[Siggu]

So no other pokemon can take advantage of the weather?

There is another pokemon can take advantage of it - the opponent :P (And partners in Doubles/Triples)

But yeah, it loses all weather supporting abilities by going Primal

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

I wonder if the new weathers keep the perks of Drizzle and Drought along with their new bonuses (i.e. activating swift swim/chlorophyll, powering up water/fire attacks, no-charge solarbeam, 100% thunder). I guess these perks are lessened due to the "permanent but only while on the field," but I'm sure Kyogre and Groudon will like to keep their thunder and solarbeams.

Also curious about weather wars too, since will blocking weather changes effect even the new ones? Can you switch Primal Kyogre into Primal Groudon and change it? Or would it be supressed? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

While I love rain and Kyogre, I'm glad Groudon got a boost.

According to the Pokemon website Heavy Rain and Extremely Harsh Sunlight

Grants the same effects to Pokémon and their moves as the rain/sun brought about by the Drizzle/Drought Ability

The site goes on to actually list the moves an abilities blocked by these two new abilities: (Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Hail, Sandstorm, Drought, Drizzle, Snow Warning, Sand Stream) but it doesn't list the new abilities. As in Primordial Sea can still activate in Extremely Harsh Sunlight and visa versa.

So no other pokemon can take advantage of the weather?

They can but only in Doubles.

 

[QueenOfHax]

I wonder if Origin Pulse is boosted by Mega Launcher. Not that the combination is going to be possible without hacks.

 

[gabriel]

Some mechanics to wonder about:

• Do these affect apply to status moves of the canceled type? (can you use Will-O-Wisp in heavy rain?)

I can't see why it wouldn't. This is actually a nice bonus for Primal Kyogre, since it's now virtually immune to burn except from the eventual Scald. This is useful for staying healthy and relevant for keeping Water Spout's power high. A Scarf Kyogre can't really switch into a fire move without giving up some of Water Spout's power. Primal Kyogre can.

The site foes on to actually list the moves an abilities blocked by these two new abilities: (Sunny Day, Rain Dance, Hail, Sandstorm, Drought, Drizzle, Snow Warning, Sand Stream) but it doesn't list the new abilities. As in Primordial Sea can still activate in Extremely Harsh Sunlight and visa versa.

That's interesting: this means Primal Groudon only has to watch out for Primal Kyogre, since regular Kyogre can't remove extremely harsh sunlight.

 

[stage7_4]

I wonder if Origin Pulse is boosted by Mega Launcher. Not that the combination is going to be possible without hacks.

Probably not since the original translation is "wave."

 

[Sweetstack]

I'm very curious as to how other weather effects have been changed. How will Solarbeam, Thunder, Hurricane, and weather-dependent healing moves be affected? What about abilities like Dry Skin, Rain Dish, etc.?

 

[Kelthret]

I wonder if Origin Pulse is boosted by Mega Launcher. Not that the combination is going to be possible without hacks.

Well, I suppose that if you have a Smeargle that has sketched Origin Pulse and Skill Swap it would be possible, wouldn't it?

 

[Death Phenomeno]

As much as I hate Water-Type Pokémon (and Kyogre by extension), I noticed something about its new signature move.

Its name is Origin Pulse, pretty much the same as in Japanese (こんげんのはどう).

Now, if you remember, there's an Ability that boosts all moves that have はどう on their name; Mega Launcher. This of course is speculative, but we have no reason to believe that Origin Pulse will be excluded. This doesn't really mean anything for Singles, but for Doubles/Triples…

Assuming Primordial Sea can be overwritten, someone could use a Clawitzer with Entrainment to give Primal Kyogre Mega Launcher. If its new move follows the rules and becomes boosted, few Pokémon (if any) could survive.

Assuming Primordial Sea can not be overwritten, someone would have to bring a Mega Blastoise all the way from XD where it can be tutored Mimic. More work, but it could be worth it.

Again, this is merely a lot of speculation, but we won't know until someone tries it.


EDIT: Crap, beaten by minutes.

 

[Hydrachomp]

Probably not since the original translation is "wave."

Well heal pulse is boosted by mega laucher and its japanese name is "Healing Wave". So it's still a possibility.

Edit: Well I got ninja'd.