XY Doubles Scitar

[Jorick]

INTRODUCTION​

When I built my first Smogon Doubles team earlier this week, it relied on a Bulk Up+Justified gimmick, and it didn't really keep synergy or type coverage in mind. Needless to say, I wasn't very proud of it and I thought I could do better. Here's my second attempt! I'm quite pleased with the result, though it does still have some problems here and there. Your input will be appreciated! :) Without further ado, let's take a look at the Scitar team!

Step-by-step​

The core: Scizor + Tyranitar
This team is centered around Mega Scizor. It's a powerful Pokemon with, in my opinions, great defensive typing. One big problem is its 4x Fire weakness. Therefore, I brought in Tyranitar as a synergistic teammate, getting rid of Fire types with Rock Slide. Tyranitar itself is 2x weak to Bug, Fairy, Grass, Ground, Steel and Water, and 4x to Fighting. However, Tyranitar can cover Bug types itself with Rock Slide, and Steel types with Low Kick. Scizor can help killing fairies with a priority Bullet Punch, and Grass-types with Bug Bite. Tyranitar was given a Chople berry to protect it from unsuspected Fighting-type attacks, but it is obviously still very weak to it. This leaves three big threats for this combo: Ground, Water, and Fight attacks will hurt. Therefore, Togekiss was added next.

Together, this Scizor+Tyranitar combo has a move that is strong against:

... But not against:

Together, they have an immunity to:

... And a 4x resistance against:

... And a 2x resistance against:

... But no resistance against:

Togekiss
The Scizor-Tyranitar combo has a big problem facing Fighting types, and Togekiss' Dazzling Gleam is a great solution to this problem while also adding coverage against Dragon types. It can also do some semi-supporting thanks to Thunder Wave and Air Slash+Serene Grace (likely to flinch). The latter also helps to counter Grass and Fighting types. Finally, Roost and Leftovers were added to keep it alive.

Completing the puzzle
Scizor, Tyranitar and Togekiss are a solid base, but still lack cover against Water, Ground, Poison and Electric types. So I thought, why not add Zapdos and Quagsire? Quagsire doesn't mind attacks from Water and Ground types, it's immune to Electric types, and it gets rid of Poison- and Electric-type Pokemon with Earthquake. Scald helps removing Ground-types. Zapdos, on the other hand, is immune to Quagsire's Earthquake (as is Togekiss), while being a threat to Water types. Quagsire also gets Toxic because I feel like I needed to have one slow killer at least, just in case. Zapdos and Quagsire both get leftovers. Note that I'm playing Smogon Doubles, so I am allowed to give multiple Pokemon the same item.

Hitmontop
Hitmontop is there not because of its type or offensive power, but only because its excellent support. It has wide guard to protect Tyranitar (and itself) from Dazzling Gleam, Scizor from Heat Wave, Zapdos from incoming Rock Slides, etc. Furthermore, it also protects itself from Quagsire's Earthquake if needed. Even though I never lead with Hitmontop, Fake Out is helpful every single time. Quick Guard protects the team from eg Bullet Punches, while Close Combat is there in case Hitmontop needs to take over the offensive side for a while. I chose to give it a Sitrus Berry.

EDIT Sep. 19
Based on some input and more testing and tweaking, some changes were made to my team. Quagsire was replaced by Gastrodon, which has Storm Drain and makes my life a lot easier. Its move set has been switching around a lot, but I think I found a sweet spot now. Also, Hitmontop was removed. Sure, it's a helpful supporter, but it had little synergy with the rest of the team and I simply had too much trouble with sun teams, Rotom-W and Fighting types. I tried out a few options, but timid Greninja came out best by far. It has hydro pump to counter charizard, ice beam for dragons, Grass Knot for Rotom-W and Gastrodon, and finally Extrasensory for Fighting types that threaten Tyranitar.

In addition, some changes were made in EV spreads, items and movesets.

Team Overview​

For in-depth explanations, I refer to the previous section. :) Here, you'll get a general overview and some additional remarks.

​

I would like to mention that in total, this team has at least one move that is strong against every type.
I have a Pokemon that is immune to:

... And a Pokemon that is 4x resistant to:

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Protect

As an additional remark for this Pokemon, I'd like to mention that I only use Swords Dance when I'm feeling confident, eg when the Fire threat has been eliminated or when I know that I'm going to get a free turn (thanks to Hitmontop's Guards, for example). Whenever I'm not sure if the opponent has an surprise Fire-type move, I'll protect after switching in.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Low Kick
- Earthquake

(Edited) I decided to swap out the Chople Berry for a Choice Band, which has served me well so far. Because the band makes Protect useless, I changed that to Earthquake, since I didn't have a Ground move to counter Mega Manetric yet. Also, the EVs and nature were changed to make sure it disposes of threats before they can get him down.

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Water Pulse
- Roost

(Edited) I decided to go from an offensive Togekiss to a specially defensive Togekiss, which is far more successful. Now, it has more time to paralyse, flinch and confuse opponents. Furthermore, it can easily switch in and take a hit. Because I have two dragon-killing moves on the team already (and its purpose is no longer to hit hard), I changed Dazzling Gleam for Water Pulse.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

(New) Gastrodon is here now, instead of Quagsire. Its Storm Drain added Water immunity to the team (which my previous team had absolutely no resistances to), and it simply performs better. I might change Ice Beam for Earth Power and then give Tyranitar Ice Punch instead of Earthquake, but we'll see.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Protect

(Edited) Zapdos really does come in handy frequently, with Thunderbolt and Heat Wave that I can't go without. My entire team used to depend on Zapdos to get rid of Water threats, but these days are luckily over. :) I made it specially defensive which keeps it alive much longer.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory
- Grass knot

(New) The newest addition to the team. Getting rid of Hitmontop makes my team lack Fake Out and Wide Guard, but Greninja gets rid of so many of my team's threats that it's definitely worth it. Its great offensive coverage has come in handy in every single battle so far (unless it gets knocked out immediately - because it is a little frail).​

 

[shaian]

To be honest, offensive Togekiss should really be aiming to out speed 80 Spe Heatran (60 Spe investment needed), or Max neutral Bisharp (176 Spe investment needed), and I would consider Aura Sphere over Dazzling Gleam at that point to really slam them before they do anything in return.

A spread of 36 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe lets you outrun Max Neutral Bisharp, ohko it with Aura Sphere and also hits a Leftovers number with the rest thrown in defense, or for Heatran, 164 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 60 Spe, hits a Lefties number again, creeps 80 spe Tran and depending on whether or not you throw those 32 Def EV's into SpD, will never be 2hkod by Heatwave without a crit.

Another note, if you need Zapdos specifically for countering Rain, I would probably make it Specially defensive over physically. And probably throw T-Wave or Tailwind over Protect or Roost. But that's just me.

Oh also, Gastrodon > Quagsire.

 

[Jorick]

Oh also, Gastrodon > Quagsire.

Thanks for the input. I already tested out Gastrodon instead of Quagsire and it is, indeed, a very major improvement. :)

 

[Jorick]

Many changes have been made to the team, as you can see from the edits in my original post. Most of the builds/movesets were updated and there are two new additions: Gastrodon instead of Quagsire and Greninja instead of Hitmontop. These changes made me climb on the ladder from about 1150 to almost 1400 (so far).

Any additional advice is always welcome!

 

[wllmagic]

Hi Jorick, gonna rate the new version of your team, and I dig the core you've built around.

Togekiss can definitely be improved. Use 192 Def with 64 SpD, Calm. The Def Evs let you live a Bisharp's Iron Head, which will be quite important for supporting your Tyrantitar, who would easily crumble to one otherwise. Honestly, Togekiss has truckloads of Sp bulk already, and packing it all into SpD is rather wasteful in Doubles; one usually EVs to survive a certain number of attacks from a certain Pokemon, for the metagame is just that offensive and fast-paced, lacking stuff like stall. Consider Sitrus Berry over Leftovers, which gives it more temporary bulk (and is the more preffered item over Leftovers in general due to the same reason above). The lack of constant recovery under Sand shouldn't bother you too much as you're packing Roost too. Get rid of Water Pulse for pretty much anything. You have enough Water coverage in Greninja and Gastrodon; Water Pulse does jack shit anyway. Some options over that are Aura Sphere (donks Bisharp, but I would prefer...) or Follow Me. Togekiss is pretty much the best FM supporter in Doubles, and redirecting attacks can be crucial for letting a teammate survive to deal out damage. Like an earlier example, you can prevent Tyranitar from being hit by a fatal Iron Head to retaliate with EQ or Low Kick. You could also use Tailwind over Roost to give Scizor and Tyranitar a big boost in speed, but it's really your choice whether you want a Tailwind team.


Eh for Gastrodon, it seems you're trying to go more stallish, but that's really not recommended at in in Doubles. Stall has been dead forever here. Also, some of Gastrodon's roles are taken up by other team members; Greninja covers it's offensive STABs already, while Scizor provides a good answer to Rock-types. So I'd recommend Amoonguss over it, another very bulky support Mon. It gives you a more solid answer to Rotom-W on your team, and also lets you status to death. It's a good switchin to Water in general, since it's massive bulk shrugs off resists. Here's a good set:

Amoonguss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Protect
- Giga Drain

Not much, but you could change Zapdos to a more offensive spread. You can try 252 HP / 128 SpA / 16 SpD / 108 Spe, with a Calm nature. The Special Attack EVs will be enough to OHKO a Charizard Y, while the Speed investment will let you outrun Breloom, so you can fire a Heat Wave off before being Spored. You can definitely replace Roost for Tailwind if you feel like it too.

Last thing is Protect over Grass knot on Greninja. Pretty basic, Amoonguss is all grassy and shit, so Protect would be more valued. Protect is always valued anyway. Protect is nice. God I love Protect. PROTEEECT

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 252 HP / 124+ SpD Rotom-W: 57-70 (18.7 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO <-- Greninja can't do much to Rotom-W with Grass Knot btw

That's what I've got for the team, hope it works out for you!

 

[Jorick]

That's what I've got for the team, hope it works out for you!

Thank you for your help! I'll make sure to try all of these possibilities out in the next few days. :) I'm pretty new here so I haven't really delved into the world of damage calculations for perfect EV spreads yet. Thank you for those!

I do have one question though: one major advantage of Gastrodon was that I could easily switch it in to take a few hits while I'm dealing with fire types. Greninja is really frail, so it only works as a revenge killer. Is this something I should be worried about, or is that a sacrifice I should be willing to take with this team?

 

[wllmagic]

I felt that both Tyranitar and Greninja (somewhat Zapdos) were all pretty good answers to Fire-types anyway. Tyranitar and Zapdos easily tank and beat down Talonflame and Charizard Y, while T-tar and Greninja are offensive threats to Heatran and Rotom-H, with Greninja outspeeding and OHKOing them. But yeah, Rotom-H would be more troublesome, so you would have to make sure Greninja has opportunities to come in. Zapdos can also beat it 1v1, through "stalling" it out with Roost, Thunderbolt, and your good Special Bulk. Whoops brainfart, was thinking of Rotom-W there. Even though it's not too common, it's still a threat if Greninja falls, and you'll probaby have to rely on T-tar + Togekiss in a worst case scenarion. Hope other raters can give their thoughts on this/own changes.

 

[SpaceBass]

If you were looking for a more reliable fake out/intimidate support (that TTar would greatly appreciate), Scrafty is actually a good option on the team somewhere. You've got enough fighting resist and bulk for it to fit, and Scizor has priority over the fairys that give it and TTar issues.

(Scrafty) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 224 Atk / 44 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch/Stone Edge

As far as Zapdos goes, I've had mixed results. If you wanted to go offensive, Wll's spread seems right, but if you want some more support, this spread has worked pretty well;

(Zapdos) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 28 SpA / 32 SpD / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Light Screen
- Tailwind/Heat Wave

 

[qwerts]

Cool core and team, but greninja is not a good doubles poke. I'd reccomend using skymin(sha.ymin sky) over him seeing as it completely outclasses him as a special attacker, with flinches and high power seed flares.

2 Seat (Shaymin-Sky) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Protect

This set has great coverage and offensive capabilities and supports with flinches/drops.

 

[Moudou]

Hey! That's a very sweet team you have there, excellent synergies, and I too think that M-Scizor is worth building a team around it.


However, like wllmagic, I really don't like Water Pulse on Togekiss, especially when Togekiss is one of the best Follow Me support mons in the Tier. I think that Follow me should be a non-negociable move on any Togekiss actually but that's not exactly true either :D But I think you should try it out. Plus, it'll help you protect Scizor form Talonflame...

Have you tried Choice Scarf on Tyranitar? Out-speeding Char-X/Y is pretty sweet, and it sometimes (a lot of times I found) takes your opponent by surprise. And Loosing a Mega-Charizard is never a good news, especially when M-Scizor set up a Sword Dance and threatens to sweep the rest of the team...