Questions/Problems when East meets the West

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Did you really ask for scientific evidence for a subjective cultural phrase? I just want to make it clear how ridiculous this is. As for 3, Westerners certainly are against eating dog but not because it is cruel but because it is "wrong" which is subjective but I just want to make it clear that it isn't a cruelty thing but rather a moral thing. Objectively it's not very different from eating cattle but I still couldn't do it because I have dogs and the culture I was brought up in. I have never heard of 1 so I can't comment on it.

Anyways if you really want something scientific to the phrase "dog are mans best friend" just consider that dogs have been domesticated longer than anything else we as humans have domesticated, including crops and other animals.
No, that is not the picture I get from what happened.

People are shouting that it's cruel. They are literally using the word cruel in their comments.
"Such a cruel race", "How can people be so cruel?" "They should have died in the atomic bomb" (probably mixed up Japanese and Chinese) is what I read MANY times.

I guess science and emotions don't mix. At least I personally don't like to argue in an emotion way.
And that's why I don't support any animal rights group, as unlike environmental groups, there's no science data collection whatsoever.
It's all about how people feel, which is very subjective.
But the trouble is, a lot of people who support environmental groups are supporting animal rights groups, that's why I keep seeing this bullshit, hardcore racist stuff from their bloody comments.
Almost every petition about dog meat, you see racist comments.

Does make me wonder, do SOME people just join in the anti-dog meat thing just to mock another race and had fun with it?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
you are asking sane people why complete lunatics do what they do, do you expect us to know?
Well... wasn't specifically asking people about that, because nobody can know exactly what the others are thinking.

But would you feel that racists are mostly complete lunatics?
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Damn... let's go back on track.

Why not start with...
Ok, why not start with answering this:
Myzozoa said something like: gender gap in mathematics not exist in Asia. What's the difference in the education?

Answer:
Mathematics is indeed taught differently.
In Asia, mathematics usually is the subject with the most homework. It is a matter of practice to practice doing the same sums over and over again until you are familiar with it.
A regular 13 year-old could possibly be doing more than 2 hours of maths homework per day, consisting of similar sums.
After doing that, it is also very common for people to do extra mathematical training outside school.
A notable example is the "Kumon" mathematics program. It consists of exercises and you are required to time yourself every time you do the papers.
To a point, memorization is involved. And girls are mostly the ones who can sit more still, and more dedicated to doing the sums.
Interesting, I've also heard that teachers in Asia often have their worst math student go up to the front of the class to do problems the most, that way they get the most attention and the rest of the class learns from their mistakes. Anyone confirm?

In american classrooms I've been in, they rarely even make students go to the board to do problems in front of everyone.

Also two more interesting things (don't have a university internet connection to provide really good jstor citations unfortunately):

1. Female Genital Surgery aka Female Genital Mutilation- Often we hear news stories about the genital mutilation practices of African cultures. However, there is still a vast cultural apparatus in the liberal 'West' that also deals with female genital mutilation: the cosmetic surgery industry and whatever other industries go into the regulation of feminine bodies (the porn industry for example). Many countries in the west have considered placing travel regulations on young girls in order to prevent them from being brought back to an African country on holiday and having their genitals mutilated. However, none of these countries with maybe the exception of the uk (iirc), place regulations on the purchasing of plastic surgery for feminine bodies. How does one explain these different attitudes towards Female Genital Mutilation? Why are cliterectomies acceptable in cosmetic circumstances but forbidden in 'traditional' circumstances?

I recently posted a criticism along these lines to a guardian article about a us study of female genital mutilation: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/22/white-house-us-female-genital-mutilation. my comment was something along the lines of 'will they take into account plastic surgeries that cut various parts of the vag?' it was deleted immediately (ur not the only one billymills).

2. The myth of the moderate minority shia/sunni muslim minority population- We often hear news stories which discuss a dangerous Islamic militant group or state in opposition to a moderate group. For example in Iraq it is thought that the minority Sunni population is more moderate and secular. However, this turns out to reveal little about the ideology of extremists, as Islamic extremism appeals to a combination of Sufism, which is non-denominational (i.e, it is both sunni and shi'a), and a particularly harsh interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence (Wahhabism), thus the emergence of fundamentalism may not have anything to do with Shi'a or Sunni affiliations, but may have a lot to do with economic circumstances and political histories: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi_movement#International_influence_and_propagation
(normally i would cite Fadl's writing directly, but no university internet connection .cry. the whole wikipedia page is a good read imo). Too often, imo, news coverage of the middle east exaggerates divides between shi'as and sunnis as it is an easier story than researching further historical and ideological analysis of how fundamentalism emerged (because it turns out that many fundamentalist groups were originally armed by western governments).
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Interesting, I've also heard that teachers in Asia often have their worst math student go up to the front of the class to do problems the most, that way they get the most attention and the rest of the class learns from their mistakes. Anyone confirm?

In american classrooms I've been in, they rarely even make students go to the board to do problems in front of everyone.

Also two more interesting things (don't have a university internet connection to provide really good jstor citations unfortunately):

.
I think it depends on the teacher.
Most of my teachers tend to prefer asking students that they don't like, so it creates more opportunities for the teacher to openly criticize/ shame the student.

I don't think I'm capable of answering the other 2 questions.
However, most people I know find genital mutilation of Muslims cruel. (We refer to the type of Muslim genital mutilation that doesn't involve the use of anesthetic)
Mainly due to the pain involved. We probably won't feel the same if anesthetics is applied.
I think if they disinfect properly, and apply anesthetics, then well... it is nothing but a religious/ traditional practice.
 
No, that is not the picture I get from what happened.

People are shouting that it's cruel. They are literally using the word cruel in their comments.
"Such a cruel race", "How can people be so cruel?" "They should have died in the atomic bomb" (probably mixed up Japanese and Chinese) is what I read MANY times.

I guess science and emotions don't mix. At least I personally don't like to argue in an emotion way.
And that's why I don't support any animal rights group, as unlike environmental groups, there's no science data collection whatsoever.
It's all about how people feel, which is very subjective.
But the trouble is, a lot of people who support environmental groups are supporting animal rights groups, that's why I keep seeing this bullshit, hardcore racist stuff from their bloody comments.
Almost every petition about dog meat, you see racist comments.

Does make me wonder, do SOME people just join in the anti-dog meat thing just to mock another race and had fun with it?
You're probably reading this from places like Youtube comments which at times is the low point of humanity. I stick by my guns as a westerner that the average western individual is turned off at dog and cat meat because it is "wrong" and not because it is prepared in a cruel or different matter from the rest of out livestock. I think other westerners can vouch for this.

Edit: Wait, I think I get it now. People use the word cruel to describe eating dog meat. But I think that has more to do with using that word because of the phrase "animal cruelty." People will use the word cruel to say that eating dog meat is wrong, not in the sense that it is done differently from, say, beef. The average westerner saying eating dog meat is "cruel" is just saying that it is wrong. Not that it is prepared differently.
 
Interesting how in America most people (in my experience >95%) are pleasant in person but on the internet people become so incredibly rude. I wouldn't weigh real life experiences with internet experience. It's hard to tell why people resort to being pieces of shit online and JUSTIFYING it. My guess is personal problems. Can't be a stud irl so might as well be one on the web. I take things too seriously and I still get irritated at the brashness people display online, even in 'serious' discussions.

My school has lots of international students and I've made a few Iraqi, Saudi, Korean, Chinese, Indonesian,etc friends and they're all very different. The Saudis range from humble and cool to arrogant and greater than thou. The Koreans are the most fun. :) Have yet to meet an unpleasant Korean person.

The US is extremely diverse in terms of how people are raised, which in my opinion, matters the most when it comes to mannerisms. Also economic status in this country isn't expressed as extremely important, but in the real world, it means a lot. The culture here is weird. Not much sense of 'togetherness' and in my experience people who are older than college age generally wouldn't want to do ANYTHING for you without some type of reward for them. People here preach independence and individualism when most are just used by the upper class and don't seem to have anything against it. In Europe total strangers have no problem lending you a minute of their time but it rarely happens here. Since we're generalizing here I find most Americans to not be very serious and lack empathy which is the total opposite of EVERY Chinese student I've met.

Based on my (very limited) experience in taking Chinese language courses, talking to Chinese and other Asian students, and some research, I would have a hard time living in China where schooling is ridiculously difficult. The same applies for India.

As the world grows more connected cultures will clash but I don't think that will result in cultures blending together as most countries are still mostly homogeneous. It makes the world a more interesting place that there are such stark differences but I feel really bad for kids growing up in rough places seeing how carefree and easy most upper middle class kids have it.
 

macle

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I find that people from every culture on the internet can be rude. It's probably because there are a vast more americans on the forums / chats that you visit so you just perceive that its just americans.

On the subject of terrible stereotypes, why does the east seem to not care about animals? Rhino horns / elephant tusks are being harvested for curing ED in asians, Singapore is the place to buy endangered animals, Japanese whalers, shark fin soup, etc. Only recently has China even passed laws to protect endangered species. Do they not teach conservation?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I find that people from every culture on the internet can be rude. It's probably because there are a vast more americans on the forums / chats that you visit so you just perceive that its just americans.

On the subject of terrible stereotypes, why does the east seem to not care about animals? Rhino horns / elephant tusks are being harvested for curing ED in asians, Singapore is the place to buy endangered animals, Japanese whalers, shark fin soup, etc. Only recently has China even passed laws to protect endangered species. Do they not teach conservation?
Teaching conservation probably exists in Japan and Hong Kong. But buying what is taught or not is a totally different matter.
People in Asia generally do not treat animals as equal. It is more viewed as either food item, or an item to be used.
Asians tend to adhere to the belief that only the fittest survive, and the flesh of the weak becomes devoured by the strong. A bit like winners keepers losers weepers, really. Animals are seen as the weak, as being captured as food is a sign of a losEr.

No... that's not what I personally think.
I've also persuaded my dad not to eat shark fin soup. And we are looking forward to change other family members too.
 

macle

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is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Teaching conservation probably exists in Japan and Hong Kong. But buying what is taught or not is a totally different matter.
People in Asia generally do not treat animals as equal. It is more viewed as either food item, or an item to be used.
Asians tend to adhere to the belief that only the fittest survive, and the flesh of the weak becomes devoured by the strong. A bit like winners keepers losers weepers, really. Animals are seen as the weak, as being captured as food is a sign of a losEr.
how does the east treat the handicapped?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
how does the east treat the handicapped?
As far as I know, Japan has very limited financial aid towards the handicapped, as Japan is a very elitist place.

As for China, you are pretty much doomed if you are handicapped. People don't care if you are physically handicapped or what, they just won't give you a seat on public transport.
(That's our impression from Chinese tourists)
There are also superstitions like "if you are hit by the stick of the blind person, you'll have bad luck." which doesn't help at all, and people stay away from blind people instead of helping.

In Hong Kong, physically handicapped people are sometimes treated nicely. Sometimes they will let you have the seat, but not always-- it depends whether the people on the train are tourists or not. (Chinese tourists do NOT give seats to people in need. They don't.)
Well to be fair, some local Hong Kong people are nasty/ selfish as well. They pretend to be sleeping if they don't want to give up their seats.

However, Hong Kong people are still quite harsh towards the mentally handicapped.
This is probably due to the lack of news from successful people with psychiatric conditions.
Most HK people think that autistic people/ schizophrenic people...etc are nothing but mad. They just directly imagine the ones in mental hospital, or those who chop up people on the streets (as news reports so)
However, there is a growing amount of awareness towards people with mood disorders. (Since percentage of patients is quite high, as Hong Kong is a very stressful place, work-wise and academic-wise)

Awareness for autism/ Asperger's syndrome is growing in Japan too.
There are several manga/ television soaps about autistic people which are well researched and well received by the audiences. People start to understand what it is.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
@_______ yea, smogon is a very american website with very american values, ironically they don't care about offending OTHER cultures
I personally won't tell you which moderator this was.
But point is, you lot should have a good think of what other people think of you.

No, condemning people and forcing your own standards are not going to make people think you are morally supreme. (Unless you really are acting towards the same standard you want from people)
It will only make you sound even more stingy and more like a hypocrite.

If you are offended by what I have said, you should tell me that you are offended, instead of forcing your morals on me.

----------------------------------

I personally do NOT agree that stereotyping equates to racism.
It is not racist.
This is my stance after talking to this moderator.
I shouldn't have thought I was wrong.

Most Asians believe that each individual should have the responsibility to maintain the reputation of his/ her own racial group, myself included.
This explains the low crime rate of Asians in foreign countries.

And if you plan to travel to Asia, (actually, European countries as well, especially France!!)
be prepared that people ARE going to analyze you and form an impression of your country due to your actions.



Enough said.

I don't care how unpopular this post is going to be.
 
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Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
I personally won't tell you which moderator this was.
But point is, you lot should have a good think of what other people think of you.
Oh you think we haven't? Maybe we should all sit down and think about ourselves. Because it turns out that the world is a lonely place and people don't think about you as much, or judge you as much, as you might think, they're busy thinking about their own circumstances.
No, condemning people and forcing your own standards are not going to make people think you are morally supreme. (Unless you really are acting towards the same standard you want from people)
It will only make you sound even more stingy and more like a hypocrite.
Cool, but then you follow up by saying that it's normal for asians to impose judgements on non-asians, and hold them as representatives of their race. But races aren't homogenous, no one body speaks for an entire group. It's a ridiculous expectation and it might even make people uncomfortable. I don't like america or many customs of americans, thus when I travel, I know it makes me uncomfortable when people treat me a certain way because of my citizenship or skin color.

Most Asians believe that each individual should have the responsibility to maintain the reputation of his/ her own racial group, myself included.

If you are offended by what I have said, you should tell me that you are offended, instead of forcing your morals on me.
Like I said above, the demand of reputation maintenance, and authenticity, is an imposition of a morality.

----------------------------------

I personally do NOT agree that stereotyping equates to racism.
It is not racist.
This is my stance after talking to this moderator. I'm not going to be submissive towards Americans. Asia is losing its traditions and culture because too many people were being submissive towards white people's values, and I shouldn't have been one of them.
I shouldn't have thought I was wrong.
Ok, even if stereotypes don't equate to racism, they are still primarily negative in that they lead to a false cognitive mapping of the world. It turns out that stereotypes aren't always the case in every context. For example:


Most Asians believe that each individual should have the responsibility to maintain the reputation of his/ her own racial group, myself included.
This explains the low crime rate of Asians in foreign countries.

And if you plan to travel to Asia, (actually, European countries as well, especially France!!)
be prepared that people ARE going to analyze you and form an impression of your country due to your actions.

There's a fairly good reason why British people and French people do not tend to like Americans.
(Yes, most British people do stereotype people too. No they are not racists. They have friends from more diverse backgrounds than you lot)

Enough said.
1. I know of plenty of asian gangs in the places I grew up in california. Guess that wasn't a helpful stereotype in my context
2. When I went to china with my family of white people, I definitely felt like I was treated differently at times because I was obviously foreign, but not in Shanghai or Hong-Kong, in those places American/white tourists were normal. When I went to Lìjiāng and Tibet, however, we were the only non-chinese people in the area, as far as I could tell, and so it was pretty obvious that we would be get extra attention in those areas. Again your stereotypes fail to be true in context.
3. When I went to Serbia, Bulgaria, Bosnia by myself, I got almost no attention as a foreigner, and I mostly interacted with other foreigners. I was never regarded as an american, by the friends I made, since I stressed that I was from california. Since californians have stereotypes too, and well-known, this is quite an easy distinction to make and thus avoid the stigma of being american, which btw is not that bad at all in my experiences. I mostly made friends with british tourists who were staying in the same hostels, turns out we get along great, especially since I follow english football and read the news from the manchester guardian. turns out brits do like americans if they can connect through their shared interests/experiences.
I don't care how unpopular this post is going to be.
True facts usually hurt anyway.
yah ur just oh so so edgy jynx, people dont how to respond.




stereotypes=/=racism, stereotypes are still, by their very nature misleading, just like anything out of context. Which is why it isn't interesting or informative to discuss stereotypes except to contextualize them rather than affirm their truth.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
yah ur just oh so so edgy jynx, people dont how to respond.
Ya, sorry for using strong languages again.
Shouldn't have used offensive language.

I should have a good think of what I've done wrong.
I'm glad that you didn't call me something worse.
I can do really stupid stuff when I'm angry.

Stereotypes though, maybe I'll change in the future about it.
I'm not a person who thinks everyone from a group fit into that category though, I just wanted to point out some trends.
You can still argue that it's still hasty generalization until the vast majority does it.

I formed the wrong impression that you are condemning it due to thinking it's racism, so I'm glad that you explained it.
And thanks for telling me that the reason you opposed it is because people don't feel comfortable with it.
Now I see why it is a bad idea.

I'll try to reform the thread by editing out the stupid stuff.
 

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