Metagame ORAS RU: Speculation Thread

[Goddess Briyella]

I'm fairly certain that the only "mixed" thing that sounds viable for Mega Altaria is running Fire Blast alongside Pixilate-boosted Return and Earthquake on a Dragon Dance set. I know there's also Draco Meteor, but this move cannot be spammed and Altaria has no way to boost its special offense.

And Audino, Mega or not, will definitely outclass Mega Altaria as a team supporter regardless of its several resistances, because Altaria does not have Wish or Knock Off.

 

[The Legend Waker]

Odds are, Mega Altaria will get a serious boost in offense. However, even with a +35 boost (as I mentioned in my earlier post as a possibility) it ends up at 105 / 105 offenses. While those are definitely an improvement, I still don't feel it's enough to go mixed. Reason I say that is that Lucario, a Pokemon with 110 / 115 offenses has never been able to viably go mixed because it's really hard to spread the EVs and maintain optimal damage output. The best mixed attackers generally heavily favor one side of the spectrum with their stats (think Salamence and Dragonite) have well placed STABs to hit walls on their weaker defense stats (Infernape and DPP Blaziken come to mind) or just have a movepool that favors one side more than the other (Victini and Rayquaza) What's also important is that Mega Altaria won't be able to use Life Orb to somewhat make up for the split EVs with a mixed set for obvious reasons. Lastly, Mega Altaria will still have solid bulk and an amazing defensive typing, meaning it will want to find a way to use Roost on most, if not all, sets.

But won't Roost lead to 4MSS?

 

[Goddess Briyella]

But won't Roost lead to 4MSS?

It will limit coverage, yes, but the survivability is important and other teammates can be tailored to beat the things that Altaria can't due to running Roost over another attack, such as Earthquake.

 

[atomicllamas]

Fairy / Fire / Dragon has perfect neutral coverage barring Heatran (not RU).

Fairy / ground / Dragon has perfect neutral coverage barring Shedinja (terrible Pokemon).

Roost doesn't give offensive Altria 4mss bad at all

Edit: zong resists ground + stabs as well, but pursuit weak and no recovery

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Fairy / Fire / Dragon has perfect neutral coverage barring Heatran (not RU).

Fairy / ground / Dragon has perfect neutral coverage barring Shedinja (terrible Pokemon).

Roost doesn't give offensive Altria 4mss bad at all

You're not counting abilities, though. There are still a few things things like Weezing and Bronzong that wall Mega Altaria if it runs Earthquake and not Fire Blast. Intimidate Qwilfish can also give Altaria problems if it runs Fire Blast over Earthquake. It's not totally perfect. :)

And Amoonguss is going to force it out no matter what, though it may not be able to take 2 Fire Blasts in a row.

 

[atomicllamas]

You're not counting abilities, though. There are still a few things things like Weezing and Bronzong that wall Mega Altaria if it runs Earthquake and not Fire Blast. Intimidate Qwilfish can also give Altaria problems if it runs Fire Blast over Earthquake. It's not totally perfect. :)

And Amoonguss is going to force it out no matter what, though it may not be able to take 2 Fire Blasts in a row.

Ya I caught zong before you posted, also I was merely talking about coverage, wheezing is hit neutrally by dragon, and probably 2hkoed by special altaria

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Ya I caught zong before you posted, also I was merely talking about coverage, wheezing is hit neutrally by dragon, and probably 2hkoed by special altaria

I know, but I was taking Weezing's huge Defense stat into account and assuming Mega Altaria would be using its physical Dragon attack because it can boost physically but not specially. Fire Blast isn't STAB and Weezing hits back with STAB on a weakness and also has Will-O-Wisp, which Altaria won't be able to heal off without Natural Cure, and Heal Bell won't really fit on an offensive set.

Maybe something like Return / Earthquake / Draco Meteor / Roost ? Ehh, using physical moves and not running Dragon Dance is meh, though. I don't think Pixilate Hyper Voice is going to be that great for Mega Altaria, considering the things that resist it and the fact that it can't boost the damage.

 

[Flare Blitzle]

For the stat changes of the two new additions, both Pokebeach + Bulbanews are saying Beedrill's Attack and Speed increases, while Pidgeot's Sp.Atk increases.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

lel poor beedrill.

gets adaptability but bug/poison has horrendous type coverage

 

[boltsandbombers]

It's pretty nice that pidgeot is getting a great ability for its mega evolution. I mean, who wouldn't love spamming fully accurate hurricanes? Also, not ever missing heat wave will be pretty darn nice.
Beedrill I guess is more just for the gen 1 nostalgia factor, as even with adaptability I don't see it doing much.

 

[aVocado]

Adaptability U-turn sounds pretty cool tbh.

Maybe something like Return / Earthquake / Draco Meteor / Roost ? Ehh, using physical moves and not running Dragon Dance is meh, though. I don't think Pixilate Hyper Voice is going to be that great for Mega Altaria, considering the things that resist it and the fact that it can't boost the damage.

Any non-fully physical Altaria set would want Fire Blast to hit Doublade.

 

[Molk]

Beedrill of all things got a mega x.x, who's betting we get mega butterfree too?

Mega Pidgeot looks pretty interesting, a nice Special Attack boost with 100% accurate Hurricane and Heat Wave definitely sounds solid, especially with such an easy method to switch out of any of the Pokemon who check it with U-turn (switch advantage :]) There's also the possibility that Pidgeot might get even more moves to utilize No Guard with, just like how Sharpedo might get more moves with Strong Jaw, or how Lopunny is confirmed to learn High Jump Kick in ORAS (Focus Blast anyone? TMs have gotten updates during generations before given U-turn Liepard and Wild Charge Klinklang, and 100% Focus Blast sounds really nice for nailing Rhyperior, hell maybe even Boomburst considering Swellow gets it O_O). I have pretty high hopes for this bird overall.

For the record Pidgeot gets Defog too, so there's that although i'd most likely just run 3 Attacks+Roost or 2 Attacks+U-Turn+Roost most of the time.

As for Beedrill, i really don't know man =/. Those stat boosts are gonna need to be really well placed to make it work imo.

Anyways, unless Pidgeot is confirmed to learn more moves than we already know about, i'm expecting this to be its most common/best set. Thoughts?

Pidgeot @Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- U-turn / Hidden Power Grass / Defog
- Roost / Hidden Power Grass / Defog

 

[breh]

No Guard Hurricane was a horrible idea on gamefreak's part and I hope we never see it again.

Anyway, the two new megas seem like the first set of new ones I am relatively confident will remain RU if they do not go up. Beedrill has some pretty serious issues with respect to its movepool, but Knock Off / Drill Run help and a good speed tier would go a long way to making it viable. As others have noted, U-turn is a great move for beedrill. If beedrill gets some sort of defense boost too, it could make a decent defogger ?_? It's starting to remind me of scyther lol

Pidgeot will probably be very obnoxious but how obnoxious it is depends on the SpA boost it gets and speed boosts it might get. 120 BP STAB with one of the best offensive types and a 15% chance to flinch (in essence) cannot be bad, at least.

Oh, and as Molk mentioned above, Pidgeot might make a solid defogger if it gets some solid defense boosts.

 

[EonX]

Yeah, I think Molk's set for Pidgeot will work pretty well. The Special Attack boost is really going to be key though to give Pidgeot some power behind Heat Wave (and Hurricane too) I can kind of see it being like a mini-Moltres, but with the ability to never miss and only a 2x weakness to Stealth Rock at the cost of some power. Pidgeot also gets Tailwind, which can be kinda nice for when Pidgeot has done its job and allows it to setup a sweeper late-game.

Beedrill I'm kind of iffy on. Being eternally walled by Steel-types in a tier with some solid Steel-types is not really good. Adaptability U-turn will be nice, but that Stealth Rock weakness will hurt a fuckton. It might be ok, but it's really going to need some support to function. Here's the main set I see for it:

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper --> Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off / Drill Run
- X-Scissor / Knock Off / Drill Run

I'm not entirely sure how mandatory X-Scissor will be for Beedrill atm since U-turn already does good as a Bug STAB. Maybe if you need to stay in with it late-game or something. Otherwise, I really think Beedrill will value full coverage since it will force in Steel-types thanks to Adaptability boosted STAB moves. Knock Off and Drill Run happen to nail all of the current RU Steel-types pretty hard, though you'll need prior damage on them all to KO them. Another pro for U-turn is the fact it will weaken said Steel-types for later when Beedrill might be able to sweep. Again, much like Pidgeot, Beedrill gets access to Tailwind which can be used late-game if needed.

 

[alexwolf]

If Beedrill gets Megahorn it will be a very decent Pokemon. Assuming a 30 Attack boost and with an Adamant nature, Mega Beedril can 2HKO AV Escavalier ~50% of the time with Megahorn after SR, which is insane. Add the strongest U-turn in the game and Knock Off to cripple checks such as Doublade, Gligar, Golbat, and Qwilfish, and there is almost no check or counter that can't be worn down. Of course the SR weakness really hurts, and Beedrill will need some decent Speed to fare well vs offense, but as long as it gets Megahorn i would say that things are looking pretty good for it in RU. Even though Beedrill faces competition from Durant, Mega Beedrill with Megahorn will have a more powerful Bug STAB and U-turn, better accuracy in general, won't be trapped by Magneton, will absorb Toxic Spikes, and will have Toxic Spikes, Defog, and Pursuit, all moves that Durant lacks.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

I'm really hyped about Mega Beedrill, actually. We've never had a U-turn user with Adaptability, and I think Bug/Poison is an often underrated defensive typing. Being resistant to Fighting and Fairy is rather important, and resistances to Grass and Poison may come in handy as well. Adaptability STAB X-Scissor has 160 BP, which is a bit less than STAB Megahorn's 180 BP, but it is still very strong and will not miss at untimely moments like Megahorn does. It's a shame about Beedrill's awful physical bulk, though. I just hope that it reaches a good Speed tier.

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fell Stinger
- Poison Jab / Substitute
- Knock Off / Substitute
- X-Scissor / Drill Run / Substitute

I hope this doesn't seem too gimmicky, but I was thinking about this. With the pitiful bulk Beedrill has, especially physically, it can find it difficult to get a Swords Dance boost so that it can sweep. However, I think Beedrill may have a niche in defeating weakened targets with Adaptability-boosted Fell Stinger to reap +2 Attack and then wreak havoc on the opponent's team. While it will probably be used most often as a U-turn pivot, as in EonX's proposed set, perhaps a set like this can serve as a punishment to opponents for letting their weakened Pokemon KO one of Beedrill's teammates, especially something weak to Bug; there are plenty of Psychic- and Dark-types in RU, and additionally, Shiftry's Knock Off will not get the item boost due to the Mega Stone. Fell Stinger takes huge advantage of any fodder sacrifice the opponent makes, and Substitute can be used to punish switching the weakened foe out to prevent Fell Stinger from getting the boost. This should be fun to use with hazards. :)

 

[GlassGlaceon]

ok this is a set that will ruin the meta

Bird jesus is coming back

Pidgeot @Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Sunny Day
- Roost

now while you may say "m-muh hurricane in t-the sun". No Guard completely fixes that problem and Sunny Day powers up heat wave.

bop list assuming a 20 S.Atk boost:

252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Emboar: 444-524 (122.9 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan: 258-306 (107 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Hurricane vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 448-532 (138.2 - 164.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier in Sun: 316-372 (97.5 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow in Sun: 468-552 (121.8 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pidgeot Heat Wave vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade in Sun: 284-336 (91 - 107.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

sun teams rule the meta indefinitely
bees die

 

[Da Pizza Man]

What's really going to mess Mega Beedrill up is the bulk. It has increased attack and speed but no defense behind it. >.<

• X-Scissor boosted by Adaptability is like Megahorn there.
• It can potentially break subs using Twineedle or Pin Missile ( whichever you prefer )
• It would need Drill Run to provide itself more type coverage against fire, steel, and rock types.
• U-Turn is great providing momentum as well as the boosted Adaptability and attack upon it.

Idk I just really think they should have added in bulk for Mega Beedrill as it lives with a pitiful based 40 defense considering the amount of physical pokemon being used in the low tiers. But needs Sword Dance to set up at the right time.

As for Pidgeot, increase in special attack only ( was hoping for an increase in speed as well ).

• Can just spam Heat Wave along with Hurricane due to No Guard.
• Based 101 speed is pretty good
• Finally a regional bird that can be more useful in special attack than Noctowl.

Overall, I'm glad they decided to give one of the regional birds a mega ( you know out of Staraptor, Swellow, Noctowl, Unfezant and Talonflame ). n_n

It's not a boost in only Special Attack for Mega Pidgeot and Mega Beedril most likely wont be getting a boost in just Attack and Speed, those are probably just going to be their biggest boosts

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Yea, even if Beedrill only gets +30 Attack, that's still going to sting like a bitch with Adaptability even without Megahorn and Gunk Shot. And hey, it might be even more than that.

 

[Karxrida]

Serebii doesn't list Gunk Shot as a move Beedrill can learn. Am I missing something?

 

[Ares]

Serebii doesn't list Gunk Shot as a move Beedrill can learn. Am I missing something?

Sometimes Pokemon will learn moves when they get a mega.

 

[The Bravest Bird]

Serebii doesn't list Gunk Shot as a move Beedrill can learn. Am I missing something?

Just some theorymoning - Lopunny is getting HJK, so its entirely possible that Beedrill could get Gunk Shot or Megahorn.

 

[N64Gary]

no one will use these due to scarf terakkion so they will be in lower tiers dont matter how much speed they get cuz speed dont transfer till 2nd turn and even pkmn that arnt terakkion alot of pkmn get rock slide stone edge or even a rock throw would kill beedrill lol
imo they wont ever be seen in ou without strats like baton speed boost and sd to beedrill or speed/calm mind to pidgeot.
and btw i do like them im just looking at it by a competitive ou battler
i actually used a pidgeot in x in my in game team and it made it into some of my earlest battles using hurricane and tailwind (i did alot of multis)

 

[Molk]

no one will use these due to scarf terakkion so they will be in lower tiers dont matter how much speed they get cuz speed dont transfer till 2nd turn and even pkmn that arnt terakkion alot of pkmn get rock slide stone edge or even a rock throw would kill beedrill lol
imo they wont ever be seen in ou without strats like baton speed boost and sd to beedrill or speed/calm mind to pidgeot.
and btw i do like them im just looking at it by a competitive ou battler
i actually used a pidgeot in x in my in game team and it made it into some of my earlest battles using hurricane and tailwind (i did alot of multis)

Hey i'd just like to remind you that this discussion is for their effect on the RU tier exclusively, Choice Scarf Terrakion isn't relevant here since it's OU by usage :).

 

[N64Gary]

yes sorry, im just throwing it out, i did say alot of diff pokemon get the moves though