Metagame ORAS RU: Speculation Thread

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Florges can use Leftovers, which arguably is pretty crippling for a wall such as Audino. The reason that Mega-Audino will be bad is that it doesnt have passive recovery which allows it to not be 2HKOd on the switch as it can protect to get into a range where it wont be 2HKOed. They are also taking away one of the reasons to use it as a Wish Passer, which is Regenerator, without Regenerator Audino finds itself wanting its wishes rather than wanting to pass them.

Also your calcs are pretty irrelevant as those Audino can not switch in on those mons as it will be 2HKOd, and if it comes in after you sack a mon what can it do back?
I think RU is just spoiled by Alomomola as a wish passer? Literally every other wish passer in the game outside of alomo and base audino doesn't have regenerator and they work just fine without it, its not like Umbreon, Blissey, Vaporeon or Florges are bad UU wish passers. Here we have a wisher with more physical bulk than Hippowdon and comparable special bulk to Umbreon, a lack of leftovers really isn't going to hurt it that much. You're playing it down way too much.

And all those calcs are boosted attackers outside of Exploud, it'll be switching in on the boost itself. It can pack fire blast for doublade and 2hko it- I really can't see a mon that can stomach a +2 super effective STAB attack from an adamant base 110attk pokemon and kill it afterwards being bad in RU.
 

Ares

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I think RU is just spoiled by Alomomola as a wish passer? Literally every other wish passer in the game outside of alomo and base audino doesn't have regenerator and they work just fine without it, its not like Umbreon, Blissey, Vaporeon or Florges are bad UU wish passers. Here we have a wisher with more physical bulk than Hippowdon and comparable special bulk to Umbreon, a lack of leftovers really isn't going to hurt it that much. You're playing it down way too much.

And all those calcs are boosted attackers outside of Exploud, it'll be switching in on the boost itself. It can pack fire blast for doublade and 2hko it- I really can't see a mon that can stomach a +2 super effective STAB attack from an adamant base 110attk pokemon and kill it afterwards being bad in RU.
Once again all of those Pokemon have access to Leftovers. I'm not saying its gonna be terrible, I'm saying that its not going to be that great.
 

aVocado

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I think RU is just spoiled by Alomomola as a wish passer? Literally every other wish passer in the game outside of alomo and base audino doesn't have regenerator and they work just fine without it, its not like Umbreon, Blissey, Vaporeon or Florges are bad UU wish passers. Here we have a wisher with more physical bulk than Hippowdon and comparable special bulk to Umbreon, a lack of leftovers really isn't going to hurt it that much. You're playing it down way too much.

And all those calcs are boosted attackers outside of Exploud, it'll be switching in on the boost itself. It can pack fire blast for doublade and 2hko it- I really can't see a mon that can stomach a +2 super effective STAB attack from an adamant base 110attk pokemon and kill it afterwards being bad in RU.
It's not about being spoiled by Alomomola. The most common other wishpasser is Aromatisse which has access to Leftovers, a better ability, and most importantly a pure Fairy typing. Lack of Leftovers does hurt it that much, because a lot of the time Pokemon like spdef aromatisse take like 54% from Specs Exploud's Boomburst, go for Moonblast or Wish and if its the former, an SpA drop can happen and if it didn't, then Aroma can survive another Boomburst anyway because it can Protect to gain 6% back, etc.

Another thing about Audino is its neutrality to Fighting. This is really important because that means it can't stop Pokemon like Hitmonlee or Virizion/Cobalion as they can just muscle through it with HJK, Iron Head + CC, and Leaf Blade + CC respectively. Also, for that calc, I hope you weren't implying that Audino is a Doublade counter. Yes, it has Fire Blast, but does it have place for it? It'll run Wish + Protect that's for certain, Heal Bell would also probably be ran, and the 4th move? Probably either Knock Off or Dazzling Gleam or something. Running Fire Blast will really make it fodder for some Pokemon like Fletchinder, Moltres, Slowking (which can outstall with Scald burns), etc. Maybe if another Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user is in the team, it could afford running it, but otherwise probably not.

Yes Mega Audino is insanely bulky but I doubt it will be the best thing since sliced bread as some people make it out to be.

On the other hand, Mega Beedrill, Gallade, Glalie, Pidgeot... hell, all of them, look very extremely promising. I'm especially excited about Mega Beedrill, I wanna spam that Adaptability-boosted U-turn coming off base 150 Attack which can further be boosted with an Adamant nature. Pidgeot will probably either be pretty good or very underwhelming, and I don't think there's an in-between. Spammable Hurricane looks very promising, and it's speed is impressive, leaving it 1 point faster than Dugtrio (but eh, it can't be trapped anyway so w/e) but a few short from Jolteon. I was hoping it would get 131 speed, but oh well. Hurricane/Heat Wave/U-turn/Roost might be good, but we'll have to see, because it's kind of hard to determine (for Pidgeot especially) whether it will turn out great or not just from theorymonning.

Gallade is looking a bit broken to me, but I'm running some calcs at +2 and it's kinda just not doing enough damage. It can barely 2HKO Phys Defensive aromatisse with Ice Punch and it can never 2HKO Gligar with Zen Headbutt at +2. I'm assuming a set of Jolly SD/CC/Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt/Knock Off here. Additionally, it never OHKOs Alomomola at +2, although I'm not sure if it has a chance with SR, I ran this calc a while ago.

I'll post about some other megas soon.
 

Ares

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Ari expressing my exact thoughts in more words and stuff lol.

Here are some calcs for you Arikado with Adaptability and base 150 attack
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 186-220 (43 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 158-186 (31.7 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 188 Def Meloetta: 372-440 (92 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Slowking: 408-484 (103.8 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Rhyperior: 124-146 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 128-152 (42.1 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Drapion: 172-204 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Just included some calcs of A up ranked mons, i didnt include stuff like Gligar or Registeel as obvisouly its gonna be doing little to those types of walls.
 

Punchshroom

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Those calcs show me that Mega Bee is probably going to skewer a hell of a lot of shit if it gets a Swords Dance up, just so long as it stays away from priority. Just when Lee thought it's safe not to run Sucker Punch again :P
 

phantom

Banned deucer.
To be fair, all Mega Audino needs to be good, if not amazing, is a one turn recovery move like Soft-Boiled or Recover. Think about it. Chansey does not have leftovers recovery either, but it gets by pretty well with that monstrous bulk, and I think by extension, Mega Audino could basically be the Chansey of RU if it did have that kind of move. It has amazing bulk and a way better typing, one that makes it a Knock Off sponge, gives it a resistance to U-turn, and grants it with neutrality to Fighting moves, not to mention actual offensive presence with moves like Dazzling Gleam, Knock Off, and Flamethrower. The lack of one-turn recovery move is the only reason it won't be a great wall, not a reason why it would be terrible as some make it out. I think it has some potential and it's dumb to knock on a fairy with well over 100+ defenses across the board. Basically, it's not going to be amazing because most of its potential was shot out the window with the exclusion of one of those crucial moves (heck, even Moonlight would save it), but people need to stop calling it trash/bad because that's a huge exaggeration, if anything, it's getting more hate than it deserves in this thread...
 

EonX

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I want to stray away from the Megas for just a moment and talk about some sweet tutor moves some Pokemon gained:

Meowstic-M: It got Heal Bell. Add Prankster in and this makes it the first Pokemon ever to have Prankster cleric abilities. It'll kinda have 4MSS between Dual Screens, T-Wave, and Heal Bell, but it's something neat that offensive teams have never had the opportunity to try before.

Malamar: Knock Off is a huge buff for it. Not sure if it'll be enough to make it relevant in RU at all, but at least it has something better to spam after pumping up Attack and Defense with Superpower.

Heliolisk: It finally has a reliable Normal-type STAB in Hyper Voice. Definitely will provide it with an option over Thunderbolt for a cleaning move, and it's nice to have something to truly set itself apart from Jolteon now.

Tyrantrum: OUTRAGE. Tyrantrum finally has a reason to run a Dragon-type STAB. Still a pretty poor move with all of the Steel- and Fairy-types roaming about in RU, but it's something at least. Now if they just release Rock Head...

Aurorus: Refrigerate Hyper Voice is a nice boost for it. It was previously restricted to physical sets to take advantage of this ability, but Hyper Voice + TBolt have pretty solid coverage. Add in the ability to use Rock Polish and Aurorus is a lot better now. Also keep in mind it has some odd coverage moves like Psychic and Flash Cannon to fill out its moveset. 4x weakness to Mach Punch will hold it back quite a bit though.

Gourgeist: Primarily for the XL version, but Synthesis is a huge boost for it. Reliable recovery is really the one thing it has lacked. We finally now have a Ghost-type with reliable recovery that isn't completely outclassed by something else.

Pangoro: Well, this thing got virtually everything it wanted from the tutors. Previously it has been a niche wallbreaker to use over the likes of Sawk and Gallade. Now? Well, it becomes a complete powerhouse. Barring new Megas, Pangoro might just be the premier physical wallbreaker of RU now with access to Knock Off and the elemental punches.
 
I'm not really saying Audino is going to be great in RU, just that it's not going to be anywhere near as awful as people are making out. It's not exactly fighting for a space on stall teams with other megas, and something with that bulk, typing and vast support options isn't going to be bad. I think it'll probably be better in UU though, and when the meta settles I think it might even reach it by usage.

Aurorus has always had refrigerate tri attack through nature power, hyper voice us really just a very slight buff, like a 13 difference in BP. However, special sets finally hit harder than physical sets, but it'll miss the EdgeQuake coverage physical brings.

Synthesis Gourgeist is so exciting, just having a ghost with reliable recovery as said above is really handy. I think Gourgeist-Small could still find some use for it, perhaps acting like a mini sableye with will-o-wisp+ speedy recovery?
 

atomicllamas

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I'm not really saying Audino is going to be great in RU, just that it's not going to be anywhere near as awful as people are making out. It's not exactly fighting for a space on stall teams with other megas, and something with that bulk, typing and vast support options isn't going to be bad. I think it'll probably be better in UU though, and when the meta settles I think it might even reach it by usage.

Aurorus has always had refrigerate tri attack through nature power, hyper voice us really just a very slight buff, like a 13 difference in BP. However, special sets finally hit harder than physical sets, but it'll miss the EdgeQuake coverage physical brings.

Synthesis Gourgeist is so exciting, just having a ghost with reliable recovery as said above is really handy. I think Gourgeist-Small could still find some use for it, perhaps acting like a mini sableye with will-o-wisp+ speedy recovery?
Actually it will face competition on stall teams from Mega Steelix, who I think will be the primary defensive mega of RU (looks pretty cool to me at this point). Idk if I would drop nature power for hyper voice on Aurorus, dodging sucker punch is super cool, an the 20% chance for status also makes the 13 BP difference much less significant. The real buff for special Aurorus is that it finally gets Earth Power, which will be crazy helpful for getting around Steel-types which formerly didn't mind it, although I don't see Aurorus reaching RU if I'm completely honest. While, Gourgeist-small does enjoy synthesis, I still think that sub seed (which doesn't really have room for synthesis) will be its best set, Gourgeist-XL on the other hand, welcome to being an RU stall staple :O.

ORAS pokemon I'm most exited to play with at the moment include: Mega Steelix, Mega Pidgeot, and SUPER BUFFED PANDA. Pangoro now has amazing STAB moves which make it worth using thanks to Drain Punch and Knock Off, gg RU.
 
stall will have it's work cut out in a meta full of new megas and buffed wallbreakers/sweepers such as pangoro, slurpuff and malamar. oras should be a nice breath of fresh air for the tier.

are we allowed to discuss likely drops from uu here? the december shift will coincide quite closely with the release of oras, and new mons in the tier are likely to have a fairly big inpact on the burgeoning tier. i'm looking forward to using kingdra.
 
I made a similar post on the OU forums, but I feel as if Mega Pidgeot will be an extremely good Defog user, being one of, if not THE fastest user of Defog in RU at Base 121 Speed. What makes Mega Pidgeot stand out as a Defog user in RU is the fact it has a really solid offensive presence at Base 135 SpA, and thanks to No Guard, it can easily spam Hurricane and Heat Wave. The last slot is your choice. HP Grass against Rhyperior or Roost to acquire reliable recovery from Stealth Rock.

Pidgeot-Mega
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Roost
 

EonX

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I made a similar post on the OU forums, but I feel as if Mega Pidgeot will be an extremely good Defog user, being one of, if not THE fastest user of Defog in RU at Base 121 Speed. What makes Mega Pidgeot stand out as a Defog user in RU is the fact it has a really solid offensive presence at Base 135 SpA, and thanks to No Guard, it can easily spam Hurricane and Heat Wave. The last slot is your choice. HP Grass against Rhyperior or Roost to acquire reliable recovery from Stealth Rock.

Pidgeot-Mega
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Roost
For a Defog set on Mega-Pidgeot, I'd highly recommend the use of Roost. The coverage on Rhyperior is cool and all, but with Pidgeot being weak to Rocks without Leftovers recovery, it needs Roost to be a reliable Defogger. I'd also experiment with some HP EVs. Probably only needs enough Speed to beat out Mega Gallade, Durant, and the musketeers for more of an offensive support set. Only real threats it would miss out on are Cinccino (walled by any Steel-type ever) and Dugtrio (Stone Edge will be super obvious)
 
For a Defog set on Mega-Pidgeot, I'd highly recommend the use of Roost. The coverage on Rhyperior is cool and all, but with Pidgeot being weak to Rocks without Leftovers recovery, it needs Roost to be a reliable Defogger. I'd also experiment with some HP EVs. Probably only needs enough Speed to beat out Mega Gallade, Durant, and the musketeers for more of an offensive support set. Only real threats it would miss out on are Cinccino (walled by any Steel-type ever) and Dugtrio (Stone Edge will be super obvious)
To outpace Mega Gallade (the fastest mon you listed besides Cinccino + Dugtrio), I came up with this:

Pidgeot-Mega
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Roost

Outspeeds and OHKOs Mega Gallade and Virizion w/ Hurricane, outspeeds and nearly OHKOs Cobalion and fries Durant w/ Heat Wave, and can survive a Stone Edge from Dugtrio and OHKO back w/ hazards breaking the sash.
 

DaAwesomeDude1

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What are everyone's thoughts on Mega Glalie? I think it'll be a great Pokemon in RU and a fantastic suicide lead and is a replacement (somewhat) to Froslass. Also, you can run either a special or physical set for Mega Glalie

252 SpA Glalie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 352-420 (105.3 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 936-1104 (280.2 - 330.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 442-522 (108.8 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 433-511 (102.1 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino: 397-468 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 450-531 (103.6 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 342-403 (112.5 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Iceplosion too stronk
 
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Punchshroom

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What are everyone's thoughts on Mega Glalie? I think it'll be a great Pokemon in RU and a fantastic suicide lead and is a replacement (somewhat) to Froslass. Also, you can run either a special or physical set for Mega Glalie

252 SpA Glalie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 352-420 (105.3 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
There's no reason to ever bother with Ice Beam though (SpD Gligar @_@), since Glalie has Refrigerate Return that scares Gligar already and is much more powerful in general. I also saw some scans revealing Glalie learning Freeze-Dry, so there is even less reason to use Ice Beam.
 

EonX

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There's no reason to ever bother with Ice Beam though (SpD Gligar @_@), since Glalie has Refrigerate Return that scares Gligar already and is much more powerful in general. I also saw some scans revealing Glalie learning Freeze-Dry, so there is even less reason to use Ice Beam.
I think he was just using it as a comparison calc (he lists Explosion vs. Gligar as the very next calc, perhaps to show the fact you don't really need Ice Beam on Glalie now)

That said, Glalie learning Freeze-Dry would be interesting. However, I think it'll be held back due to the issue of 4MSS and the inability of Glalie to learn Hyper Voice to make special sets worth using.
 
I've lurked on Smogon since B/W, and I finally decided to signup for the forums to post this hypothetical set for Mega-Beedrill.

U-turn
Venoshock
Drill Run
Protect/Toxic Spikes/Knock Off

The idea is that with Adaptability, Venoshock is boosted to a very solid 110 attack even if the opponent isn't poisoned. Now, if it is, it's boosted to a quite scary 220 attack coming off a 150 base attack.
Team Beedrill up with a Toxic Spiker and/or a prankster toxic stall set, and you have a very scary hit and run attacker. I don't see a team like that doing wonders in OU, but I could see it being viable in RU or NU

Edit; Also, Considering the fact that Mega Beedrill is a thing, I think it's very likely that there's a ton of unreleased megas in the actual game that weren't in the demo. I'm extremely certain that gamefreak would have the foresight not to put all the data in the demo, as really, there isn't enough space, and they have no reason to do so anyway. So, I will eat my words if there isn't at least 6 more megas that aren't revealed.
 

Molk

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I've lurked on Smogon since B/W, and I finally decided to signup for the forums to post this hypothetical set for Mega-Beedrill.

U-turn
Venoshock
Drill Run
Protect/Toxic Spikes/Knock Off

The idea is that with Adaptability, Venoshock is boosted to a very solid 110 attack even if the opponent isn't poisoned. Now, if it is, it's boosted to a quite scary 220 attack coming off a 150 base attack.
Team Beedrill up with a Toxic Spiker and/or a prankster toxic stall set, and you have a very scary hit and run attacker. I don't see a team like that doing wonders in OU, but I could see it being viable in RU or NU
Sadly, Venoshock actually runs off of Mega Beedrill's horrible base 15 Special Attack stat instead of its great Attack stat, so this set definitely wouldn't be working out too well in practice imo ;-;.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Venoshock_(move)

welcome to smogon btw :)
 
on mega beedrill, I dont see much reason to even run a poison move as it is super redundant coverage that is using up a slot that can be used on SD, knock off, or protect etc.
 
on mega beedrill, I dont see much reason to even run a poison move as it is super redundant coverage that is using up a slot that can be used on SD, knock off, or protect etc.


I think that Bug STAB might not be necessary - Knock Off can hit the intended targets of X-Scissor/U-turn(bar Spiritomb, Drapion[Drill Run], Sharpedo and Shiftry[Poison Jab]) while knocking off Doublade's Eviolite, among other things.
 
on mega beedrill, I dont see much reason to even run a poison move as it is super redundant coverage that is using up a slot that can be used on SD, knock off, or protect etc.
on an SD set I'd rather drop the bug stab to run drill run and knock off, as poison is a decent stab combined with these, unlike bug as you still have a fairy weakness.
 
i guess my thing is im not really considering SD drill as much as i am an all out attacking drill with u-turn for pivoting because beedrill is just so damn frail its gonna be pretty difficult to set up and beedrill is gonna have a tough time with priority users
 


I think that Bug STAB might not be necessary - Knock Off can hit the intended targets of X-Scissor(bar like Spiritomb I guess) while knocking off Doublade's Eviolite, among other things.
to be fair, beedrill could always just knock off their items and then u-turn to an appropriate counter. poison STAB is definitely more useful on an SD set though.
 
Also on the note of Mega-Beedrill, I can't really think of anything relevant the Bug STAB would really hit. Poison Jab is able to nail fairies and as others above already said, Knock Off + Drill Run already provides decent coverage. The only Bug type move I would use is U-Turn, cause Momentum and whatnot.

Mega Lopunny is also a really interesting 'mon. Normal + Fighting is actually not that bad of a combination of offensive STABs, and it has Scrappy to hit Ghost types. The bunny would also be a pretty good Spiritomb check/counter, as Spiritomb can't switch in and Lopunny can just Heal Bell off the burns if necessary.

P.S: Really said that Steelix didn't really get buffed up that much. I was hoping for more :((
 
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