Pokémon Manaphy

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Jukain

252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 288-338 (84.4 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Thundy-I needs prior damage or an item to ohko Manaphy.

Also, slash Psychic next to ice beam tbh, if you want to break stall icebeam is entirely useless.
I'm surprised you used Thundurus-I for the calculation compared to Thundurus-T, who's still faster than Manaphy.
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 320-378 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
With Life Orb or a Nasty Plot boost, Thundurus-T can OHKO Manaphy easily. Thundurus-I with Life Orb also gets the job done.
 

Aragorn the King

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Manaphy is such an amazing mon atm. Funny how the Tail Glow + 3 Attacks set has almost completely died, in favor of a Tail Glow + Rain Dance + 2 Attacks set, which allows it to beat practically all stall teams lacking Ferrothorn. However, couple it with zone, and it's pretty much unbeatable for standard stall. Yes, empoleon does wall it, but it's incapable of doing anything but roaring it out, which is fine early on, but late game, Manaphy wins. Are there any other non-Ferro stall mons that handle Manaphy (plz don't say jynx)?

Also, thanks to its light weight, a nice perk of manaphy is being able to check ninja nicely.
 
Are there any other non-Ferro stall mons that handle Manaphy (plz don't say jynx)?
Well you do run the victim of the week thread...

Anyways, I'll give it a shot.



Off the top of my head, Celebi, Thunderbolt/Energy Ball Latias, Hydration Rest Goodra, SpD Ampharos, and Kyurem-B can put up a good fight vs surf/psychic manaphy (surf psychic is easily the best 2 move coverage it gets, since surf/ice beam is walled by most water types, and surf/energy ball by most grass and dragon types). All of them hate Ice Beam from 3 attacks Manaphy though, except Kyurem-B.

+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Celebi: 122-144 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 164-194 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Celebi wins, I think. Maybe there's a way Manaphy can beat it by exploiting Giga Drain's 3HKO but it would be really weakened if it does.

+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 134-158 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
184 SpA Latias Thunderbolt vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 166-196 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
184 SpA Draco Plate Latias Draco Meteor vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 214-253 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Latias Tbolt + Draco Meteor combines for a 2HKO with any boosting item (Draco Plate only because I feel it's the best way to compromise between bulk and nuking on a stall Latias) Latias is also faster, so it can revenge kill weakened manaphy, super convenient

+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Goodra: 134-158 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- 66.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Goodra in Rain: 150-177 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
160 SpA Goodra Thunder vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 198-234 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
160 Atk Goodra Power Whip vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 202-238 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Obviously you'll have to pick your attack stat but Rest + Rain Dance Goodra only runs 2 attacks so not too difficult.

+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Ampharos: 152-179 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 236-278 (65.3 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 302-356 (83.6 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Volt Switch needs a fast partner to finish the last ~30% but that's not too hard to find even on stall. Thunderbolt is a OHKO with some investment if you prefer.

+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 245-289 (62.6 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
216+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 374-442 (103.6 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252+ SpA Manaphy Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-B: 164-193 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
16+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 254-300 (70.3 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
What's nice is Kyurem-B can be made faster than standard TG+RD Manaphy. But Manaphy can potentially up the speed to creep Kyu-B if it wants.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Baton Pass
- Thunder Wave

Latias (F) @ Draco Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
- Defog
- Roost

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Rain Dance
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Rain Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Power Whip

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 216 Atk / 72 SpA / 220 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Roost
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Outrage

Kyurem-Black @ Assault Vest
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 20 SpA / 220 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Claw


I can't think of any totally universal counters to manaphy though Kyurem-B is really effective if you can keep it healthy. Ferrothorn is pretty close, but Scald burns cripple it and make it difficult to check Rain Dance + Rest sets, and Magnezone problems like you mentioned. Goodra can always get off a Power Whip for half or more, and counters any set without Ice Beam, and Hydration means it doesn't need to worry about Scald burns. Ok, Shedinja hard counters, but I don't think that's what you had in mind.
 
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Manaphy really ought to be shooting up in usage considering how well this pokemon deals with newcomers like megaslowbro and mega sableye. The TGRD energy ball scald set has no problems with these pokemon and with magnezone support can decimate stall and balance as well as threatening even offensive teams because of it's bulk. It can also act as checks to water nukes like keldeo, azumarill and crawdaunt thanks to again, it's bulk and energy ball. the Wacan Berry set also lures the crap out of electric types like thundurus and can free up sweeps for other pokemon. Manaphy is one of the strongest wallbreakers in the game, and it seems to be drowning in new toy syndrome. It's low weight also lets it take on mega metagross in desperate situations and hopefully burn it with scald.

Are there any other non-Ferro stall mons that handle Manaphy (plz don't say jynx)?
It really depends on the set. Chansey can stand up to the 3 attacks set and TGRD usually lacks something in coverage letting things like amoonguss or a bulky water depending on the set.

All in all, i feel that manaphy's best set atm is the EnergyBall Scald TGRD set. pokemon like CM clefable, CM megabro, CM sableye and more are just stopped cold by this thing.

Manaphy is legitimately one of the largest threats in the OU metagame to slower teams, and even offensive teams to a degree thanks to the bulk. Discounting this pokemon is to give your opponent a free win.
 

TMan87

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I've personally used the TG/RD set with Rest (so I chose to go mono-attacking), and it just murders stall. With a bulky spread it can switch in a wide range of physical attackers (e.g. Bisharp) and most of stall Pokémon. Chansey is a setup fodder, as is Ferro, MEye can't keep up, etc.
Definitely one of the best stallbreakers atm.
 
I've personally used the TG/RD set with Rest (so I chose to go mono-attacking), and it just murders stall. With a bulky spread it can switch in a wide range of physical attackers (e.g. Bisharp) and most of stall Pokémon. Chansey is a setup fodder, as is Ferro, MEye can't keep up, etc.
Definitely one of the best stallbreakers atm.
the rest set is cool, but i gotta say, having that coverage move, energy ball lets you take on CMers like megaslowbro as well as check/breakpast a lot of water types like azumarill. having that coverage move makes manaphy more useful outside of simply destroying stall, and can act as a more flexible win condition, but it really comes down to the team you use it on, so it's the user's call.
 

Tokyo Tom

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As an avid user of Manaphy, I just wanted to drop my 2 cents here. I think the meta has shifted again to favour the straight up TG + 3 Attacks Manaphy set, with Scald | Energy Ball | (Ice Beam / HP Fire) usually being the set. Psychic I feel has declined in usage because of the decline in Mega Venusaur (which is the main reason to use it, besides like, Tentacruel) but I also wanted to highlight Signal Beam as another viable coverage move, which offers all-around coverage on Slowbro, Lati@s, Mew, and Celebi. But yeah, I like 3 Attacks Manaphy for its ability to tear through balance atm with little team support, and even when it's lacking HP Fire its ability to fish for Scald burns on its most popular switchin, Ferrothorn, is awesome since a burned Ferro is one of my favourite sights in Pokemon (and also, Ferrothorn is one of the most easily overloaded Pokemon in the game). Water / Grass / Ice coverage grabs Super Effective coverage on almost everything on Balance or Stall. Although Manaphy may be on the slow side for an offensive Pokemon, its decent bulk allows it to take a hit or two and usually trade or fish for burns vs. HO, and its utility vs. Balance and Stall is just too great to pass up. TG Manaphy's been rising so much in usage that a buddy of mine (not sure if he'd like to be named) has been using Power Swap Altaria to steal its boosts, which I think is jokes since Altaria is outsped by Manaphy...

I'm a big fan of pairing Manaphy up with Victini because they can grab free turns on each others' counters (and clicking Band V-Create is one of the most satisfying things in the game). If you make the required double switches the core can break defensive balance builds pretty easily.

I also wanted to share a different EV spread since I think just max/max Timid is inefficient. With a spread of 112 HP / 212 SpA / 184 Spe Timid, you allow Manaphy some more bulk and longevity in exchange for a minor amount of SpAtk and Speed. With these Speed EVs you'll be outspeeding everything up to the rare Jolly Landorus-T (Earth Plate or what have you) at 309 speed, which I feel is the biggest benchmark until, like, 328, although you can drop down to around 301 speed if you don't think this is a necessary benchmark. The HP EVs net you a Leftovers number, meaning you maximize the gain from Leftovers while still minimizing entry hazard damage.
 
Anyone tried Tail Glow Manaphy on a Trick Room team? I gave it a go a while ago, and it worked out nicely - using a fast U-turn or a Memento/Healing Wish to bring them in safe. 100 base speed with zero investment and a negative nature will underspeed 252 invested base 70s or higher and yet at the same outspeed base 70s without investment. What this means is outside of Trick Room you naturally outpace the majority of stall, and yet under Trick Room you outpace the majority of offense baring things like Azumarill. Then add this to the fact that Trick Room allows you to invest in bulk, which is already a formidable 100/100/100 and even when Trick Room drops you should easily be able to tank a hit or two and hit back with a ridiculously strong water STAB.

Here's the set I enjoyed most:

Manaphy @ Splash Plate / Wacan Berry / Rindo Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Tail Glow
- Scald / Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam

I think Scald is a definite if you have the Splash Plate, after rocks it can 2HKO Chansey with 4 HP / 252 SpDef at the +6, plus it also provides the burn chance - enhancing the already very large bulk you have (you can comfortably survive a Revenge Killer Talonflame Brave Bird for example). However if you still want a good chance to be able to get through Chansey and you want to use one of the berries to greatly reduce the damage of an SE hit, then Surf can be a better option (95.7% chance to 2HKO after rocks).

Energy Ball allows you to breeze through things like Quagsire or other water types, a must for coverage. Ice Beam gets through all the dragon and grass types who would otherwise make you unhappy. HP Fire is an option, but all you're really hitting with that is Ferrothorn so you're best not using it.

Wacan and Rindo berries are great - how Trick Room will play out ordinarily is you'll have a two turns of unbridled supremacy (Trick Room, U-turn/Memento/Healing Wish, Tail Glow, then attack, attack) where the opponent has to volunteer pokemon to faint, then after it goes down they'll send in their electric or grass type to revenge kill you. With the nerf from the the relevant berry, they fail to KO allowing you to hit back with sky high special attack - against a fair few teams this secures you 3 OHKOs with the potential to stretch to a fourth with the high bulk. After that, cleaning the rest of the team shouldn't be too much of a big deal. Wacan berries are for Thundurus and Volt Switchers like Rotom-W, Rindo is for Mega-Venusaur (not ideal as you only 2HKO defensive variants with Ice Beam at the +3, but still good for catching the opponent off guard), Mega-Sceptile and Serperior.

I guess things you'll need a hard answer for are: Ferrothorn, Unaware Clefable, Specs Magnezone, possibly Mega-Venusaur and Chansey depending on what you're running, also multiple rounds of priority damage - very little else is going to enjoy what Manaphy is offering. Mega-Lop can be a huge pain by stalling TR turns with Fake-Out, but it can't 2HKO even with rocks so even if it stalls your last TR turn it's going to have to take a +3 Scald.
 
I've been running the CroPhy set with Tail Glow instead of CM so I can break down stall teams more easily, and it works wonders. Sableye is helpless, Chansey is 2HKOed, and if Ferro gets burned it's GG. I'm running 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spe though, as a more offensive monoattacking set, and while, as I said, it screws over stall, it is mostly helpless against offensive teams who can just 2HKO it before it gets to set up. So TG CroPhy is actually good but needs anti-offense team support.
On another note, how would a Scarf Manaphy work? The bonuses are that no one expects it and Hydro Pump is extremely spammable, especially in the rain where it also gets to abuse Hydration. It also has great bulk for a Scarfer, decent coverage, and if you want to give up the 4th moveslot you can run U-Turn to lure in things like Lati@s who, while they can take a Timid U-Turn, are now forced to switch if you send in a TTar or Tran. However it doesn't hit too hard with a Scarf. Note this is competely theorized and I have not tested the Scarf idea, but I would appreciate feedback.
 
I like running as much speed as possible on this thing and pairing it with another strong special-attacker like Modest Mega Gardevoir with Taunt or Specs Sylveon. In a metagame that can get so damn bulky, it's important to have more than one potential wall breaker. The coverage between Manaphy and the fairy of your choice can be potent and you'd be surprised at the hits they can survive even when ev-ed offensively. Ferrothorn can annoying, but worn down with Focus Blast, Burns from Will-O-Wisp or Scald, and Tail Glow Boosted Ice Beams.
 
I personally have become a fan of using U-Turn Manaphy on stall. Specially defensive Manaphy is the only way stall can beat opposing Manaphy so I guess it's worth a shot!
 
Yea Manaphy is the ultimate stall breaker. I run a offensive rain team, here's the set I use.

stallbreaker on offensive rain team:

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald (or Surf)
- Psychic
- Tail Glow
- Rest

Psychic is better for wallbreaking (deal with Venusaur, Breloom, Amoonguss, Conkeldurr. It's really the best 2-move coverage you can get with Manaphy). Manaphy is really the only one breaking through Chansey using sheer special attacks. Manaphy is pretty bulky by itself so it can take a hit before killing (Mega Manetic does 81.6 - 96% with Thunderbolt).
If Latios come and you're above 80%, use Rest to predict a Draco Meteor or try to worn him out if he's Life Orb.
Take the chance as soon as you can to swith Manaphy in against a stall poke and sweep.
 
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