6Iv calm from dppt. But honestly N pokemon made 6th gen HP hunt so easy.
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
It would removing pointless busywork, so I'd be all for it. An in-game IV editor would be a godsend so you can get specific Hidden Powers and all 6 perfect for mixed mons without any RNG bullshit and soft-resetting for Legendaries.
It takes all the value out of it. Some things should be hard to get, and some things should be rare as a result (like perfect Volt Tackle Pichus).
Value doesn't mean shit here when people just want to battle. Why do you think we do tournaments almost exclusively on sims even with the "improved" system?
Not everyone wants to just battle.
I actually want to work for something and feel proud of my soft resets.
If you don't have the time, just use Showdown. A game is supposed to be challenging without multiplay.
I'd rather a challenge than luck.
Like seriously; I understand the not being spoon-fed thing, but I'd like some sort of way to actually challenge me on which IV spread I want; something that makes me work towards it than just relying on luck. Defending a challenge by saying it's chance-based rather than testing your skill is absolute bullshit.
There is nothing challenging nor fulfilling about soft resetting or breeding. It's just extremely tedious due to RNG.
I actually want to have an in-game team because fighting in-game is fun and lets you fight random strangers at school or on the go, which you can't really do on a simulator.
So were you soft-resetting just for a flawless spread or were you also trying to get a Hidden Power?
That's not completely fair, sims have a lot of other advantages for tournaments that the games can never have, such as being free, being able to enforce custom rules, and having a chatroom as well as observers so people can enjoy watching and referees can make decisions if necessary.
Well, Pokemon isn't only about the battlers, is it? It's unfair to claim that collectors should have the value of their Pokemon decreased, which would basically remove collecting and trading as a part of the game. By doing that, you are saying that collecting is less of a valid way to play the game than competitive battling is. That is completely unfair, all different ways to enjoy the game should be considered legitimate. Not to mention it is a terrible business idea, way more people are casual Pokemon fans rather than competitive. We should just be glad they added the extra features to help out competitive battling at all, because they know they'd do fine without it (they had been doing fine for 5 generations prior).
And competitive battlers already get their need to battle with Pokemon they can get instantly through Pokemon Showdown. Yes, it's technically not official but why should that matter if it exists? That's like saying "I don't like Coke, I like Pepsi. I wish Coke would be more like Pepsi" instead of just drinking the Pepsi.
Finally, a lot of people say that breeding takes no skill and is completely luck-based, and while it is luck-based, it in no way takes no skill. There is a very important and very overlooked skill required that people for some reason or another just don't think about. That is patience. Patience to just accept the amount of time it's going to take to get what you want, patience to not get angry when you don't get it on your first try, patience to keep on trying until you've succeeded. Patience not to get mad and complain about something, because you understand there's no way you can change it.
Being completely honest, I have absolutely noticed that people who play breed/trade a lot and do a lot of in-game things tend to be the most level-headed, mature, and patient posters on the forums. I'd be lying if I said I don't think there's a correlation there.
6IV perfect Yveltal, got a hasty 31/31/30/31/29/31 Yveltal, soon gonna try for modest HP fire Xerneas
I am trying out OU too, also considering battle spot for In-game matches
tbqh I don't really give a shit about whether or not I can easily get the IVs from sring; I can easily just find some powersaver to get the Ivs
my real problem here was just the illusion that chance = challenge and would kinda prefer this thread to move away from the topic because it's becoming more centralizing than blaziken at this point
my real problem here was just the illusion that chance = challenge and would kinda prefer this thread to move away from the topic because it's becoming more centralizing than blaziken at this point
All I was trying to say is that there are plenty of people who like the current system.
You really can't tell me what I can or can't be proud of. I'm proud of my dedication to the games and the final product, something that I would never feel if the IV rules were changed.
But for the sake of peace:
I hate the fact that there was next to nothing to do on the ORAS demo. Just battle a few random grunts and ... that's all.
So much hype and so little joy... :(
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This.
I only found it good for staring at how pretty Mossdeep is, trying out Mega Sceptile and Swampert (tho they had awful moves), and getting my Mega Shitlie.
IV Improving:
While I don't agree with just editting the IVs outright, I do think there should be a way to increase a Pokemon's IV. Is not the point of Pokemon to raise and improve your Pokemon? Yet the game has this invisible system which sets it so that a Pokemon is marginally weaker/stronger then another member of its species? I understand it's to give the Pokemon variety so that not one Pokemon is the same as the other, but those who compete in official tournaments pretty much use Pokemon with max IVs having hatched many eggs to do so (or cheated). In addition to that, the Pokemon you had with you on your journey probably don't have perfect IVs thus you can't compete in official tournaments with them (well, you can, but you'll probably be knocked out quickly by someone who's Pokemon has perfect IVs. Take your Pokemon to the Battle Maison who's Pokemon all have perfect IVs and see if you can collect all the trophies without needing to breed a new Pokemon). Thus, I do think there should be a way to increase a Pokemon's IV in the game. You'll have to work for it of course, like make make it cost a lot of money (hatching eggs are free) or there's a limit on how much you can increase IVs a day (you can hatch as many eggs as you want). The point is not to get rid of the work, but rather change it so that there's a choice of which kind of work you want to do. In addition there will still be advantages to hatching eggs, like maybe hatching a Shiny Pokemon or having certain Egg Moves.
Demo Disappointment:
Just finished playing the demo and I will agree it feels a bit empty. The islands are very small and I find it annoying as soon as you complete your task you instantly are taken back to Mossdeep City instead of allowed to explore (sure, there's not much to explore, but what if there was a trainer I didn't battle or something?). I'll be posting my full opinions on the main ORAS thread soon.
While I don't agree with just editting the IVs outright, I do think there should be a way to increase a Pokemon's IV. Is not the point of Pokemon to raise and improve your Pokemon? Yet the game has this invisible system which sets it so that a Pokemon is marginally weaker/stronger then another member of its species? I understand it's to give the Pokemon variety so that not one Pokemon is the same as the other, but those who compete in official tournaments pretty much use Pokemon with max IVs having hatched many eggs to do so (or cheated). In addition to that, the Pokemon you had with you on your journey probably don't have perfect IVs thus you can't compete in official tournaments with them (well, you can, but you'll probably be knocked out quickly by someone who's Pokemon has perfect IVs. Take your Pokemon to the Battle Maison who's Pokemon all have perfect IVs and see if you can collect all the trophies without needing to breed a new Pokemon). Thus, I do think there should be a way to increase a Pokemon's IV in the game. You'll have to work for it of course, like make make it cost a lot of money (hatching eggs are free) or there's a limit on how much you can increase IVs a day (you can hatch as many eggs as you want). The point is not to get rid of the work, but rather change it so that there's a choice of which kind of work you want to do. In addition there will still be advantages to hatching eggs, like maybe hatching a Shiny Pokemon or having certain Egg Moves.
Demo Disappointment:
Just finished playing the demo and I will agree it feels a bit empty. The islands are very small and I find it annoying as soon as you complete your task you instantly are taken back to Mossdeep City instead of allowed to explore (sure, there's not much to explore, but what if there was a trainer I didn't battle or something?). I'll be posting my full opinions on the main ORAS thread soon.
Yes, that is one of the most important reasons it should not change. IVs are Pokemon genes. Some genes are better than others.
But that sort of goes against one of the main concepts of Pokemon: you raise to improve your Pokemon to be the best
You wanting that has nothing to do with whether that's how it should be. Their job in building the game is to build the most realistic/plausible world they can, where the mechanics work in ways that make sense, etc. And, again, making everything so easy and, ultimately, uniform deprives it of value, which does not mean trade value. It means, for example, breeding to get the right IVs on your pokemon loses importance. The mentality that underlies things like letting you change IVs after the fact ultimately leads to the whole thing losing, for lack of a better word, meaning. And then you lose the motivation to keep playing.
Realsim/Flavor should never be achieved at the cost of good game mechanics; it's bad game design. You could have the most plausible game in the world and it could still suck because the mechanics are too realistic to the point that it makes the game too hard/tedious/unfun/etc.
The IV/Breeding system is bad because of a combination of luck and lack of fun, as you leave the decision to the RNG on top of forcing you to literally run around in circles to progress. You have very little meaningful input when it comes to getting what you want outside of getting good parents (which requires breeding to have in the first place) and hoping that the dice all fall in perfect alignment when the stats are decided so you get all perfects. Adding Hidden Abilities, Hidden Power Type, and Shininess into the equation with even less input from the player to decide means that you pretty much need the planets to all be aligned to get that female Shiny Protean HP Fire Froakie. There's no fulfillment in it. Doing something like getting enough BP to buy an Ability Capsule is fulfilling because you actually worked for it and had direct control over getting the points via battling. Breeding is just pointless busywork that adds nothing to battling (the main focus of Pokemon) and should be axed.
What?
First off, this is a thread about complaining things that annoy you, of course I don't expect anything to change. I'm just saying what I would think be the best solution to the problem showing that there is a solution that can be found. Maybe it won't be like mine, but there are solutions.
Dos, in the real world you can improve yourself to be better. Eating healthier, exercising, taking vitamins, getting checked up by a doctor, etc. is all ways a human can improve themselves no matter what walk of like they're from (the problem is with being able to afford to do so). Also, "realism" kind of loss on creatures like Pokemon.
Third, when did I say to make thing easy? Infact, I specifically mentioned that raising the IVs should be difficult and gave a few examples! And breeding would still have benefits over it like getting access to an Egg Move, maybe hatching a Shiny, and overall possibly being quicker if you know what you're doing. What I'm trying to do is mention they could provide a choice of what someone wants to do. You could even combine methods and hatch a Pokemon who's almost perfect and increase the IVs that need a few more points with the new method. Best of both worlds! Also you still got to EV train the darn thing to level 50/100.
Losing meaning? It lost meaning once the game told me "Well congrats on becoming the Champion and saving the region and all, but that team you journeyed with? No good competitively. So find a Ditto, get on your bike, and get hatching!".
Lose the motivation to keep playing? I don't call adding hours or grind hatching "motivation", I call that artificially adding time onto the game. Besides, at least in XY, what else is there to do after making the team you want and conquering the Battle Maison. I hate to say this, but at some point you will run out of things to do in the game and end up putting down, only picking it back up for events or official tournaments. Maybe you'll play it again for some quick fun or maybe heard a new way to use a Pokemon and decide to raise it up, but not much else. Honestly if they want to keep my motivated to playing they'd maybe start thinking about adding DLC content or a new game plus, but GameFreak said they'll never do that so there goes that idea.
Sorry for double posting, but I don't want to have one super long post.
The randomness does give it all a bit of life, but to others its an annoyance.
Also if you think my suggestions are bad, I also think there should be a way to change a Pokemon's Nature (I call the person who would be able to do that a "Mood Tutor". Get it, because it sort of sounds like "Move Tutor"... I think I'll stop now).
I don't think it needs to be axed, just provide us with an alternative method. Another thing about Pokemon is that is about choice. We can choose which Pokemon we'll have on our team. It's our choice what moves they can have. It's our choice whether to compete in the side activities or not. It's our choice whether to continue on playing after the game is over or put it down. So why not give us a choice whether to grind hatch for the perfect IV Pokemon or do something equally as challenging to raise a Pokemon we have IVs?
The randomness does give it all a bit of life, but to others its an annoyance.
Also if you think my suggestions are bad, I also think there should be a way to change a Pokemon's Nature (I call the person who would be able to do that a "Mood Tutor". Get it, because it sort of sounds like "Move Tutor"... I think I'll stop now).
I would be fine with the breeding system being changed, and especially with it being more about something that involved skill (as much as that's possible here) more than grinding. I think there's some (low-level) skill involved in managing the breeding process efficiently, and obviously in choosing what moves to breed for, etc. Yeah, ultimately the hatching of the perfect whatever at the end is determined by luck, but the parameters of that luck have been narrowed and defined by what the player has already chosen to do. People aren't just throwing parents into a vacuum and waiting to get lucky with what they want. Things like breeding for HP types...I don't know, I have to consider mechanics like that representational. In the real world there would be a drawn-out process of having to identify which pokemon produced a HP of the right type, figuring out why they did and others didn't, etc. Since those things can't be literally done in the game, it's represented by grinding for perfect 30s that you have to discern yourself, whatever.
I'm certainly not saying the system couldn't be changed to be better and/or more about skill, but handing everyone everything is going in the opposite direction. That's a throwing up of the hands and abandoning an entire part of the game rather than trying to improve it.
Seriously?Pikachu315111 said:
Yes, people certainly can do those things. They can improve themselves within the bounds their genetics allow them. Just like in the games. You can EV train, etc., even go the drastic step of changing a huge component of their nature, their Ability (much more than humans can do for themselves).
I don't know if you're deliberately misinterpreting me so you can argue, or what.Pikachu315111 said:
True, maybe using a human is a bad example as we are limited to genetics, but you just proved Pokemon are different. You can now change a Pokemon's Ability via the Ability Capsule. Before you'd probably argue that the Pokemon's Ability is just as genetic as their IVs, yet, here it is, the Ability Capsule changes a Pokemon's Ability.
I can say the same to you.
I think this might be a case of opinion, and in that case there's no point in arguing. You think needing to breed for the perfect Pokemon gives some meaning, I think needing to breed for the perfect Pokemon takes it away.
Karxrida looks like you ignored everything I said...okay.
After the Pokemon mechanics were figured out through a lot of research and hacking and whatever else goes on, people discovered how the game's math worked. This was obviously never intended by Nintendo to get out. Why do you think they never directly mention IVs or EVs, only going by vague messages and hints, even today when it is basically common knowledge to many? Acting like Game Freak owes you your perfect competitive game and calling it bad game design is entitled, insulting, and worst of all, missing the entire point. Competitive battling was a side effect of the mechanics of Pokemon, something that we could do but nothing that was ever an intention. Yes, they did expect people to battle and try to win. They did not intend for people to dissect the inner-workings of the game to control details that were meant to be random.
It may appear so because we are all on Smogon, but the competitive Pokemon community is not really the largest demographic of Pokemon players. It's true that Pokemon is now embracing competitive battling a bit more with VGC and the new breeding mechanics, but that doesn't mean they should change the core soul of the game. Especially when there is an alternative that gives you pretty much everything you ask for, that Nintendo is certainly aware of and is allowing, by the way, just in case anyone actually still believed this popular site somehow managed to stay elusive to any employee at Nintendo. (Pokemon Showdown was even mentioned by name in an interview in the latest US National VGC tournament, so secret's out guys)
I love competitive battling as much as anyone else, in fact, that's where I get my fun and fulfillment. But I acknowledge and accept that we are just a minority, and that Game Freak's focus will never be us, and that everything we do here is a bonus to the games and not their main intentions. And I certainly do not want to de-legitimize the way that any other person wants to enjoy the game.
Before you call something bad game design, you have to think about what the goal was in the first place. Maybe this is a surprise to some, but Pokemon was not created to be a competitive game. Nintendo is well-known to be against competitive gaming and only really recently started embracing it somewhat. The IV/EV system was a way to create diversity in the game, making every Pokemon unique, since there was not a chance that a player, unaware of the system, would ever get the same IVs or EVs as another. It was an elegant way to make every Pokemon somewhat different.
After the Pokemon mechanics were figured out through a lot of research and hacking and whatever else goes on, people discovered how the game's math worked. This was obviously never intended by Nintendo to get out. Why do you think they never directly mention IVs or EVs, only going by vague messages and hints, even today when it is basically common knowledge to many? Acting like Game Freak owes you your perfect competitive game and calling it bad game design is entitled, insulting, and worst of all, missing the entire point. Competitive battling was a side effect of the mechanics of Pokemon, something that we could do but nothing that was ever an intention. Yes, they did expect people to battle and try to win. They did not intend for people to dissect the inner-workings of the game to control details that were meant to be random.
Like I said, "pointless busywork" separates the determined people from the "give up and complain about it" people. It's severely underrated and apparently disregarded by you but patience with a frustrating system is a very important skill and a virtue to have. "There's no fulfillment in it" is a very generalizing statement to make. Just because you find no value in it doesn't mean others don't. In fact, there is an entire forum (Wi-Fi) on this site for people who find enjoyment, fun, and fulfillment in it. Not to mention all of the other Pokemon sites with large numbers of users, and kids who aren't even old enough to have accounts on the internet.
It may appear so because we are all on Smogon, but the competitive Pokemon community is not really the largest demographic of Pokemon players. It's true that Pokemon is now embracing competitive battling a bit more with VGC and the new breeding mechanics, but that doesn't mean they should change the core soul of the game. Especially when there is an alternative that gives you pretty much everything you ask for, that Nintendo is certainly aware of and is allowing, by the way, just in case anyone actually still believed this popular site somehow managed to stay elusive to any employee at Nintendo. (Pokemon Showdown was even mentioned by name in an interview in the latest US National VGC tournament, so secret's out guys)
I love competitive battling as much as anyone else, in fact, that's where I get my fun and fulfillment. But I acknowledge and accept that we are just a minority, and that Game Freak's focus will never be us, and that everything we do here is a bonus to the games and not their main intentions. And I certainly do not want to de-legitimize the way that any other person wants to enjoy the game.
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