Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[kay]

I don't know why you're trying to hard for such an out classed mon. It fits SUCH a small niche that it really isn't worth considering on a team over so much stronger options.

 

[Ares]

What sets itself apart from Swellow is it's ability to set up with Swords Dance and the thing that avoids it becoming entirely outclassed by over Quick Feet Ursaring is U-Turn. Raticate has a slight niche over each of the main facade users (Zangoose, Ursaring, Swellow). The only set that gets completely eclipsed and there is literally no reason to use is its banded hustle set, which has nothing at all to set itself apart from Zweilous. And to be fair punch, quite a few mons D-Rank are pokemon that are eclisped by Pokemon higher in the viabilty rankings (e.g. Armaldo and Kabutops, Huntail and Gorebyss, Butterfree and Vivillon) so that argument is pretty illogical unless you are advocating all of them get taken off the viability rankings.
Even if D+ is a little lenient, this Pokemon does deserve a spot on the viability rankings.

So I have a question, are you running Swords Dance and U-turn on the same set? Cause then your set would look like SD, Uturn, Facade, Sucker Punch. That really is not a great set tbh, I would never run U-turn on a set with Swords Dance on it. And if you are only running one on the set than once again your sets are completely outclassed by other facade gut users. Also the Pokemon you mentioned might possibly get cleared out, as atm the viability rankings have quite a few Pokemon that shouldnt even be ranked. This will possibly be addressed in a future update to the rankings, I also want to say that since Armaldo is NU by usage that it automatically gets a rank regardless of how outclassed it is.

 

[skies]

Montsegur Hi just popping in to say that Swords Dance + U-turn isn't //that// bad because it can smack around a counter with more oomph and go to a respective check to the aforementioned counter, pretty neat actually.

 

[Punchshroom]

Montsegur Hi just popping in to say that Swords Dance + U-turn isn't //that// bad because it can smack around a counter with more oomph and go to a respective check to the aforementioned counter, pretty neat actually.

Swords Dance + U-turn isn't bad (Scyther @3@), but in the context of Raticate, whose dwindling health makes boosting + hit-and-running an unappealing prospect, means I'd rather use Swellow, which has a faster & stronger immediate U-turn, or Ursaring, which can use the Swords Dance boost to actually pummel the foe due to its superior coverage. Raticate cannot touch Rocks, Steels, and Ghosts that won't attack it; Ursaring handles all of them, and Quick Feet Jolly Ursaring even outspeeds Mismagius.

 

[HJAD]

Uxie from A+------->S rank

I believe that Uxie should join its pixie friend Mesprit in S rank for the following reason: misjudging what set it carry's might in fact lose you the game. Let me put this out there, Uxie has the most number of viable sets in the tier (bar s rank mespirit) which include, defensive rocker, antilead rocker, screens, subcm, offensive cm, weather setting sets, trickscarf or even specially defensive sets (I've probs missed some out). Not to mention the fact that has 4mss out the wazoo which makes it unpredictable since you don't know what coverage it carries at anyone moment or if it can halt a sweep with twave, yawn or in some cases memento.

Overall, I think with the recent discovery of subcm uxie, people have gotten really scared of switching their threats in to threaten it out, due to fear of it being offensive and sweeping the team.
"Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability."
It should definitely be up there with mesprit in s rank due to that fact it can run like 10 awesome sets (not to mention in some cases you can sweep teams by leading with subcm uxie, in some cases its THAT good a win-condition)

 

[Ares]

Update time!

Malamar from C ==> B
Typhlosion from A+ ==> S
Ninetales from B ==> B+
Raticate remains unlisted
Ferroseed from A+ ==> A
Poliwrath from B+ ==> B-
Feraligatr stays S
Xatu from A- ==> A+
Musharna from B ==> B+
Golem from B ==> C+
Zweilous from C ==> C+
More discussion is needed on Uxie ==> S as the council was pretty iffy on raising it to S and there was a firm no, so for now it is going to stay at A+

As always if you disagree with a decision feel free to post your reasonings as to why you disagree. If I missed your nomination then feel free to bring it up again.

 

[soulgazer]

OK lets try again guys:

Does Typhlosion deserve to be in S or should it stay in A+? Explain why.

No Pyroar >Typhlosion, no Pyroar = Typhlosion, no 'if Typh is in S when its weak to SR, lets put Archeops in S too'. If you guys wants to talk about Typhlosion, talk about Typhlosion, not Pyroar 9.9

 

[Aladyyn]

Uxie to S is an interesting case. While everyone is mentioning the set variability, most of Uxie's sets just play second fiddle to SubCM. SubCM Uxie is really good, probably on SD Gatr levels of reliability, but are the other sets good enough? I mean if mispredicting Feraligatr's set might lead to losing the game on the spot, mispredicting Uxie's set often leads to... Uxie getting up rocks. GASP! Since SubCM is the most threatening of Uxie's sets, you should always be cautious of it and should never be surprised by it. Most of the support sets are seriously underwhelming in my opinion. Uxie does have a ton of options, but not the moveslots to fit them. If you're using Uxie you probably want Rocks, U-Turn and either 2 utility moves or a stab+utility move. Not much room to work with, is there? Screens offense is not really good right now which puts the Dual Screens sets down. Offensive CM sounds just like a weak Mesprit. TrickScarf is decent but relies too much on circumstances and completely loses utility slots besides Trick. Weather is obviously good, but is it really a defining niche of Uxie?

As Xatu has been recently promoted to A+, let's do some comparing. Both have very effective CM sets, but Uxie definitely gets the edge there because of being able to run more speed without losing significant bulk and therefore being a lot more useful against offensive teams. Besides that, Xatu can't really deal anything better than Uxie, besides Magic Bounce. They don't really belong in the same rank so Uxie should go S.

No opinions of Typh atm.

 

[kogaza]

Popping in to give my thoughts the typhlosion rise to S. On one end of the spectrum this thing is hard to switch into, can clean weakened teams and 2hkos, if not ohko's most of the meta... But, on the other end, it loses its biggest niche, the eruption nuke, when exposed to most hazards, priority (what with kang on the rise, feraligatr, sucker punch etc) and common counters like Hariyama and Ninetales can eat up most of its attacks (I would also like to point out that it cant 2hko max spdef hariyama with anything and can only 2hko ninetales with focus blast, granted it actually hits and you predict correctly). Without eruption, typhlosion in S rank isn't much to the likes of pyroar who is faster and has better niches in taunt and will-o-wisp, as well as unnerve which, while situational, definitely has it's perks. The thing I also noticed about any S rank pokemon is that they usually are able to run more than one set and have unpredictability. Typhlosion, as I see him, has neither of these. It runs only one highly predictable set with either scarf or specs that's pretty easily walled by several things. There was also the argument that typhlosion destroys unprepared teams, but this to me is a stupid argument. Who would not prepare for a threat like typhlosion? Almost anything good will dent unprepared teams. That said, because of it's predictability, it can be rather easy to counter, compared to things like mesprit and uxie which boast roughly 1000 sets to their name and thus can surprise KO many of the mons in the tier trying to counter them. Typhlosion also is checked by a lot of the top tier mons at the moment; namely Uxie with t-wave, archeops, feraligatr and assault vest hariyama, not to mention it loses it's eruption power to fake out + sucker punch kangaskhan and most forms of priority. Another very important point is that typhlosion can't really switch in to any sort of attack or something of that nature. If it does, it loses eruption power which is really detrimental and means you need to rely on the 85% accuracy fire blast, which while more powerful than eruption in blaze range, typhlosion still has no setup up, recovery or priority method to avoid being knocked out of blaze by a faster mon. Anyway, I'm going to cut this shorter by concluding that I don't by any means think a mon like pyroar deserves S rank any much more than typhlosion does, I simply think typhlosion should stay where it was at A+ as it requires more support than normal (to run consistently), has too few sets, no set up moves, priority or recover and is way too predictable to deserve S rank.

I'd also like to finish off by saying that I know i'm not the best, but most idiots can speculate pokemon and if you disagree with my points, do so calmly.

kthxbai.

 

[Ares]

.

Popping in to give my thoughts the typhlosion rise to S. On one end of the spectrum this thing is hard to switch into, can clean weakened teams and 2hkos, if not ohko's most of the meta... But, on the other end, it loses its biggest niche, the eruption nuke, when exposed to most hazards, priority (what with kang on the rise, feraligatr, sucker punch etc) and common counters like Hariyama and Ninetales can eat up most of its attacks (I would also like to point out that it cant 2hko max spdef hariyama with anything and can only 2hko ninetales with focus blast, granted it actually hits and you predict correctly). Without eruption, typhlosion in S rank isn't much to the likes of pyroar who is faster and has better niches in taunt and will-o-wisp, as well as unnerve which, while situational, definitely has it's perks. The thing I also noticed about any S rank pokemon is that they usually are able to run more than one set and have unpredictability. Typhlosion, as I see him, has neither of these. It runs only one highly predictable set with either scarf or specs that's pretty easily walled by several things. There was also the argument that typhlosion destroys unprepared teams, but this to me is a stupid argument. Who would not prepare for a threat like typhlosion? Almost anything good will dent unprepared teams. That said, because of it's predictability, it can be rather easy to counter, compared to things like mesprit and uxie which boast roughly 1000 sets to their name and thus can surprise KO many of the mons in the tier trying to counter them. Typhlosion also is checked by a lot of the top tier mons at the moment; namely Uxie with t-wave, archeops, feraligatr and assault vest hariyama, not to mention it loses it's eruption power to fake out + sucker punch kangaskhan and most forms of priority. Another very important point is that typhlosion can't really switch in to any sort of attack or something of that nature. If it does, it loses eruption power which is really detrimental and means you need to rely on the 85% accuracy fire blast, which while more powerful than eruption in blaze range, typhlosion still has no setup up, recovery or priority method to avoid being knocked out of blaze by a faster mon. Anyway, I'm going to cut this shorter by concluding that I don't by any means think a mon like pyroar deserves S rank any much more than typhlosion does, I simply think typhlosion should stay where it was at A+ as it requires more support than normal (to run consistently), has too few sets, no set up moves, priority or recover and is way too predictable to deserve S rank.

I'd also like to finish off by saying that I know i'm not the best, but it doesn't take an idiot to speculate pokemon and if you disagree with my points, do so calmly.

kthxbai.

Lol, everyone is like omg Typhlosion loses Eruption cause of rocks. Well the thing is, is that Fire Blast + Blaze is actually stronger than Eruption which you briefly say at the end of your argument. Typhlosion has something powerful to use through out its life and has two "nukes" at the beginning and end of its life. Hariyama is a check as is Uxie, both of them do not have reliable recovery and can easily be overwhelmed. It isnt to hard to keep hazards off the field and that should not be an argument against raising Typhlosion. Another thing is that just because it has one set doesnt mean that, that set is any less deadly.

 

[Zenza]

Fully support typh going S for the reasons above..I don't really see a need to re state the same points again. What I do wanna talk about is uxie though. I also agree with putting uxie in S for a few reasons. One reason is obviously it's a very versatile mon not only in the number of sets it can run, but it's wide array of coverage moves as well. Tbh, Sub CM is it's best set 90% of the time, but you can't sleep on support uxie or screens uxie as they can both be huge for either getting up unexpected rocks, or getting up a screen to win a game if the opponent predicts calm mind. Also, because of it's incredible move pool, there really isn't a single mon in the tier that can resist it's stab + choice of coverage. It can run shadow ball for psychics, signal beam for darks, hp fighting for shit like probo (and also darks), hp fire for stuff like ferro and sheddy, t-bolt/energy ball for waters. Depending on it's coverage move of choice, nothing really "walls" uxie. (Not to compare the two, but somewhat similar to mesprit). Lastly, Uxies immense natural bulk allows you to run a bunch of speed on it, so it can fair well vs not only stall and balance, but also shred some HO and bully offense teams as well. So to summarize:
Uxie should be S rank due to it's unpredictability in what set it could be running, it's incredible move pool allowing it to not really be walled by anything (depending on coverage of course), and lastly it's ability to do well vs literally every play style :)

 

[Punchshroom]

no Pyroar = Typhlosion

>.>

Uxie then. Uxie can perform a good number of roles, and it is very good at all of them. Its combination of high bulk and good speed give it many options to work with, and allows it to make fantastic use of its support movepool. Uxie rivals Mesprit in terms of set versatility combined with effectiveness, and is also very flexible in that it can adapt to even the most drastic of meta shifts because any one of its sets can remain relevant. However, we'll have to look at Uxie objectively, to see if it faces competition from other Pokemon in the tier and risk being outperformed.

Sub + Calm Mind

SubCM has always been a deadly strategy in the right hands, and Uxie's combination of huge bulk and good speed certainly makes it a great user of the set. It can set up on a large variety of defensive Pokemon, and proceed to become disgustingly hard to KO once it gets going; you know the drill. Uxie does competes with Xatu, another Calm Mind user that can waste defensive teams but boasts immunity to phazing, Heat Wave, and reliable recovery, which is especially relevant when facing weaker Knock Off users. Meanwhile, Uxie's Substitutes are not infinite, and it's pretty weak before it sets up. However, Uxie's huge bulk allows it to fare decently even against offensive teams despite the set's passiveness, especially when augmented by Calm Mind.

Utility

Utility is where Uxie truly shines, and almost no other Pokemon in the tier can compare to how well Uxie pulls this off. It is one of the (surprisingly) few Stealth Rock users in the tier that isn't weak to Grass-type or Water-type moves, which gives Uxie a lot of safe lead matchups. Not only that, but it possess Yawn and U-turn. The combination of these moves allows Uxie to snag momentum so easily it is not even funny, and Uxie is more than bulky enough to pull it off; Uxie can even pull off a slow U-turn if it so chooses. It also prevents Uxie from becoming a sitting duck to nearly any kind of Pokemon, so its passiveness can rarely be taken advantage of. It faces mild competition with Mesprit, which boasts much better offensive presence and has Healing Wish, which is right up there in the 'clutch support move' category alongside bulky Yawn + U-turn. However, Mesprit has to time its Healing Wish right in order to make the most out of it since it is one-time use, while Uxie can support the team with its combo at any stage of the game, even when it would be risk being KOed before it gets to U-turn (after using Yawn), as that too would still nab Uxie's team momentum.

5-turn move Uxie

And then there are those 5-turn setup moves that Uxie has access to. Once again, Uxie's bulk and speed are huge factors to its success, but throw in Stealth Rock and you have one of the best setup leads for your Rain, Sun, and Dual Screens team. To top that off, Uxie has several ways to get its teammates in safely, namely Yawn and/or U-turn, as well as Memento, the last of which pretty much lays the red carpet for setup sweepers to begin going to town on the foe. P.S. I did not list Trick Room because Carbink would make a better lead than Uxie.

All in all, Uxie's performance in its roles are extremely consistent, and only faces mild competition at worst. It is usually not directly threatening, but it easily finds more than enough time to orchestrate your defeat in numerous ways. The only "problem" I find with Uxie is that it risks getting stopped somewhat easily (Taunt, Substitute against Yawn, Defog against Dual Screens Uxie), but being one of the best utility mons in the tier makes me lean towards S Rank for Uxie as well.

 

[watashi]

scyther for a- rank

scyther is perfect for taking advantage of the numerous fighting- and psychic-types running around in the tier right now. with eviolite, it's bulky as hell, being able to cleanly survive a thunderbolt from rotom with no defensive investment at all. it also has a wide selection of moves to choose from and can function as a set-up sweeper, trapper, or revenge killer. it's only flaw is the crippling stealth rock weakness, but it's not hard to fit in a rapid spinner or defogger since scyther has great type synergy with most of them.

edit: if that piece of shit vivillon is in a- then scyther might as well be in s

 

[Ares]

So I think I'm pushing towards having Uxie in S rank but there are some flaws that I want to bring up that might hold it back.

Uxie then. Uxie can perform a good number of roles, and it is very good at all of them. Its combination of high bulk and good speed give it many options to work with, and allows it to make fantastic use of its support movepool. Uxie rivals Mesprit in terms of set versatility combined with effectiveness, and is also very flexible in that it can adapt to even the most drastic of meta shifts because any one of its sets can remain relevant. However, we'll have to look at Uxie objectively, to see if it faces competition from other Pokemon in the tier and risk being outperformed.

I agree with this ^

SubCM has always been a deadly strategy in the right hands, and Uxie's combination of huge bulk and good speed certainly makes it a great user of the set. It can set up on a large variety of defensive Pokemon, and proceed to become disgustingly hard to KO once it gets going; you know the drill. Uxie does competes with Xatu, another Calm Mind user that can waste defensive teams but boasts immunity to phazing, Heat Wave, and reliable recovery, which is especially relevant when facing weaker Knock Off users. Meanwhile, Uxie's Substitutes are not infinite, and it's pretty weak before it sets up. However, Uxie's huge bulk allows it to fare decently even against offensive teams despite the set's passiveness, especially when augmented by Calm Mind.

You forgot to mention Musharna which also has reliable recovery, is bulkier in defense, and can Baton Pass out to a teammate. As far as facing these two 1v1, Uxie loses out 100% of the time unless it crits them. I was going to say that the thing that Uxie has over the other two users is access to Substitute, but then I remembered that it is somewhat irrelevant as Xatu has Magic Bounce to prevent status and Musharna has access to Heal Bell. The nice thing about sub though is that it is sort of a preventative measure against crits.

Utility is where Uxie truly shines, and almost no other Pokemon in the tier can compare to how well Uxie pulls this off. It is one of the (surprisingly) few Stealth Rock users in the tier that isn't weak to Grass-type or Water-type moves, which gives Uxie a lot of safe lead matchups. Not only that, but it possess Yawn and U-turn. The combination of these moves allows Uxie to snag momentum so easily it is not even funny, and Uxie is more than bulky enough to pull it off; Uxie can even pull off a slow U-turn if it so chooses. It also prevents Uxie from becoming a sitting duck to nearly any kind of Pokemon, so its passiveness can rarely be taken advantage of. It faces mild competition with Mesprit, which boasts much better offensive presence and has Healing Wish, which is right up there in the 'clutch support move' category alongside bulky Yawn + U-turn. However, Mesprit has to time its Healing Wish right in order to make the most out of it since it is one-time use, while Uxie can support the team with its combo at any stage of the game, even when it would be risk being KOed before it gets to U-turn (after using Yawn), as that too would still nab Uxie's team momentum.

This is the one big point that I want to bring up, in any role that Uxie trys to fill defensively it lacks something really important...reliable recovery. It is susceptible to being worn down through out the match and has severe 4MSS. I feel like these points might be enough to hold Uxie back from S rank.

Just gonna say the Dual Screens / Weather sets do their job really really well.

 

[Punchshroom]

You forgot to mention Musharna which also has reliable recovery, is bulkier in defense, and can Baton Pass out to a teammate. As far as facing these two 1v1, Uxie loses out 100% of the time unless it crits them.

I knew I was missing something; this is exactly what I meant when I said that while Uxie performs its roles really well, the real issue is competition from other Pokemon that can try to replicate its sets. Yawn + Baton Pass Musharna would be pretty damn swell too, but in exchange for survivability it forgoes Stealth Rock.

I was going to say that the thing that Uxie has over the other two users is access to Substitute, but then I remembered that it is somewhat irrelevant as Xatu has Magic Bounce to prevent status and Musharna has access to Heal Bell. The nice thing about sub though is that it is sort of a preventative measure against crits.

I also find Substitute useful for blocking attacks that can also status, namely Scald, Sludge Bomb, and Body Slam, which Xatu cannot prevent. On the other hand, Musharna's low speed means it is quite prone to status and damage (such as crits :/) before it can begin setting up, meaning it needs both Heal Bell and Moonlight on one set, which also means it can only afford mono-coverage on a boosting set. Uxie still isn't outclassed, but again, stiff competition.

This is the one big point that I want to bring up, in any role that Uxie tries to fill defensively it lacks something really important...reliable recovery. It is susceptible to being worn down through out the match and has severe 4MSS. I feel like these points might be enough to hold Uxie back from S rank.

I never found myself wishing for Uxie to have reliable recovery (bar maybe SubCM), since Uxie either manages to complete its job(s) fine without it, or tends to be used as a suicide lead. If anything, access to recovery only compounds Uxie's 4MSS, since it must sacrifice a moveslot that would otherwise be used to support other teammates; I mean Uxie can stick around for longer and all but its support options become limited as a result, which can defeat the purpose of its extended longevity.

Just gonna say the Dual Screens / Weather sets do their job really really well.

Stealth Rock Uxie can even deal with the hazard removers with Yawn and proceed to simply set up SR again while they switch or sleep. All of the Uxies do their jobs really well.

 

[FallenSword912]

Why is Furfrou in E rank? This thing can be a pain for teams with a lack of special attackers on the field

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Even though Furfrou's bulk seems nice on paper, it really doesn't mean much in practice. The problem with Furfrou is that even though it takes physical hits like an absolute boss, it does nothing else. It cannot provide any sort of team support. It can't set up hazards, provide Wish/cleric support, or really anything. It just sits there and doesn't do anything in return for its bulk. It's really weak and has no movepool so it doesn't really retaliate for good damage, just pretty weak damage. It provides Thunder Wave and Roar but there are way better Pokemon overall; those two aren't enough to save Furfrou from being bad.

Furthermore, Furfrou has no reliable recovery options which really, really hurts it. This means that Furfrou is quite easy to wear down, and it can't heal itself reliably with something like Recover to keep itself repeatedly healthy to take on physical attackers. Being weak to Fighting is also pretty bad. D- is good for Furfrou since it's pretty much like Dusclops: yeah, it's bulky as heck, but that doesn't matter when you do basically nothing back.

 

[soulgazer]

Im gonna dump some suggestions (Those aren't mines and I don't agree with all of them, I just want to spark some discussion )

kabutops: a -> a-
gurdurr: a- -> b+
sawk: a- -> b+
accelgor: b+ -> b
granbull: b+ -> b-
qwilfish: b+ -> b
vileplume: b+ -> b
electivire: b -> c+
primeape: b -> b-
simipour: b -> d+ hello why the fuck is this b LOL
swellow: b -> b-
torterra: b -> c+ omastar is gone.
barbaracle: b- -> c+
drifblim: b- -> c-
grumpig: b- -> c so many better bulky psychics just use yama with uxie
kadabra: b- -> c+
leavanny: b- -> c+
lickilicky: b- -> c+
linoone: b- -> c
rotom-frost: b- -> c

stuff to go up
exeggutor: b- -> a- why is this thing so low.
togetic: b- -> b use gleam/defog/roost/baton pass on balance.
garbodor: b+ -> a-
ludicolo: b+ -> a-
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama in Rain: 253-298 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO mmmmm. + only water resist that beats it easily is seed, and you can run focus blast to lure
prinplup: c- -> c+

 

[kay]

One thing on the list I want to comment about is Simipour.

I don't feel that is should drop due to some amazing things it has going for it:

• an amazing speed tier
• access to nasty plot
• and a great move pool in hydro pump and grass knot.

The only competition this mon has as a special water types is Samurott, but having better speed and Nasty Plot gives it enough of a reason to consider it in a team over Samurott.


here are some calcs to prove the point of how much of a monster this can be:

252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Seismitoad: 473-562 (114.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 304-359 (74.1 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 221-260 (68 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 277-328 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Now, it's hard a lot of the time for Simipour to pull off a Nasty Plot due to how frail it is, but the sheer power this mon brings is is really over looked.
It also acts as an offensive gatr check with some prior damage. It also out speeds timid Typhlosion, so it can easily revenge kill a choice specs Typhlosion.

 

[Teddeh]

Im gonna dump some suggestions (Those aren't mines and I don't agree with all of them, I just want to spark some discussion )

sawk: a- -> b+
vileplume: b+ -> b
exeggutor: b- -> a- why is this thing so low.

These 3 especially:
Sawk: A-
Sawk, I'm not too sure if I agree with this change. I think personally my type of building doesn't allow me to utilise him well however after seeing the destruction he causes teams with Kiyo and how simple he is to utilise well, it's astounding. Now that's spiritomb's gone, nothing in the tier switches in kindly except maybe the likes of togekiss but even then it doesn't appreciate a banded poison jab. I admit, he's not the threat he use to be in gen 5 however he's powerful as anything and still good in the common meta. Whilst sturdy set is basically almost guaranteeing you a kill against hyper offense or a focus sashed nuke if it were, the mold breaker set is still good with EQ that can hit weezing that is steadily becoming more popular. Also, sawk is not slow, he sits above the likes of mesprit, kabutops and any defensive pokemon for the 2 hit ko. With sawk having coverage such as Ice punch for vileplume, poison jab for granbull, slurpuff and other fairies, knock off for psychics and ghosts and finally close combat for anything that isn't resisting or immune to it, it dies. I honestly see no reason to move it down in the current meta.

Vileplume: B+
Aswell as vileplume, I see no reason to move it down either. It's gradually becoming better in the current meta as i've started to use it on my balance teams. With yama on every team, having vileplume as a safe switch in is nice as fuck and knowing that so many times effect spore can save your bacon while you're recovering health reliably is nice as well. This also meaning you can pressure pokemon that are carried on every team such as seismitoad, kabutops, kanga (if coming in on fake out, not double edge), fighting types like primeape, sawk, hariyama and even just being a knock off sponge. Carrying hp fire is standard now as you can hit things like pawniard, klingklang and 2 hit ko which does limit it however for the likes of sleep powder, however it's still very good in this meta and I'm not sure why it should go any lower, although psychic pokemon have a nice time. So again, against it, it's fine at B+ and is still useful.

Exeggutor: A-
Now this is something I agree with fully. Along with typhlosion, this thing has NO switch ins in the entire tier. After using it during my laddering for the NU OLT and even RMTing a team around exeggutor, this thing is insane, it really is. HP fire, giga drain, leaf storm and psyshock is reason alone to buff it up to A-. It can 2 hit ko every switch in with the life orb set aswell as be a complete nuke with specs. Leaf storm is nothing to be messed with as you can destroy anything that "resists" it. Not to mention a seismitoad is on every other team, meaning a pretty much safe switch in to nuke something if they don't click knock off to remove your life orb. Not to mention trick room eggy, sun sweeper eggy and kee berry eggy along with sitrus, sub seed shenanigans. It has a versatile movepool, stat selection and the only possible limitation I can think of is its base 55 speed which isn't even bad considering max speed timid still outspeeds max speed adamant pawniard and several variations of gatr hitting 228 speed. Not to mention now spiritomb is gone, it has free reign over the tier not to worry about pursuit trapping, sucker punch mind games or the worry of spiritomb being on every team that eggy won't be able to use its psychic moves. It's got some severe power and will honestly blow you away if you use it. Also, if you argue that xatu "hard walls it", if xatu comes in after rocks, most of the time you'll be able to outspeed unless they speed creep. So if they're taking 50% from a leaf storm, 25% from rocks, it's an easy 2 hit ko if you're running max speed timid. In all honesty, i would love to see eggy get a place on the ranking it deserves.

 

[Aladyyn]

JS spdef zweilous can take anything Eggy can throw at it.
Eggy is still super good tho, been a supporter since back when, I would say it's definitely B+ material, A- is not too far out of range.

What I wanted to talk about though, is Sawk. Sawk is obviously strong af. The problem with Sawk is everything else. It's hard to get on the battlefield and hard to get going. It can do a lot of work against bulky teams, but even then it's overly reliant on prediction, as its best sets are choiced. Against faster teams, it's often simply dead weight, being similar to Magmortar in this way. Definitely deserves to be B+.

Ludicolo's been incredibly underrated this gen and always does work for me. A- is alright.

Will post more after I get sleep.

 

[Vileman]

Hello i want to nominate Kangaskhan for S rank
I really feel like kanghaskan is extremely good right now, at the point that when im making a team i pretty much always end up running it just because of how useful it is: it has great bulk, power and although not a excelent speed, 90 base speed its good enough for what it does. Normal stab hits hard, and having access double priority its amazing to have a check for a lot of set up pokes or to just finish off mons late game that have been worn down. Also, scrappy its amazing as you can hit with fake out anything, so even stuff like mismagius gets checked by kanga.
I just feel like its one of the best pokes in the metagame atm, as it can hit everything for solid damage with the proper move and revenge kill a lot of stuff while having great bulk and speed.

 

[Mistrals]

might as well throw out quick thoughts.

kabutops: a -> a-

Kabutops is perfectly fine where it is, as it is still able to dent a lot of teams, has some decent resistances, stab priority, and a lot of good coverage options. Plus it's still pretty devastating in rain, and has nice synergy with stuff like Typhlosion.

gurdurr: a- -> b+
100% agree. Gurdurr just really isn't very good in the current meta, with a lot of psychic types able to revenge it and a lot of bulky poison types that can be hell for it to break through.

sawk: a- -> b+
I can't agree with this one. Sawk is still devastating, having two solid sets, being hard to switch into until you see what it clicks, and doing it's jobs well. Scarf sawk cleans many teams easily, while banded sawk can break almost anything in the tier with the right prediction. Also has some more gimmicky nonchoiced sets that it can use to break through stall and get around protect users.

qwilfish: b+ -> b
Disagree, Qwilfish is still very solid, having various sets and moves to do it's job very effective. Intimidate and typing check or counter a lot of physical threats in this tier, it can be devastating in rain, it's a decent suicide lead, and support moves like taunt and t-wave are pretty nice too.

vileplume: b+ -> b
Agree, Vileplume is probably one of the easiest fighting answers to deal with, having a load of common weaknesses and being pretty easy to switch into baring the rare sleep powder. The amount of good psychics right now also can destroy it.

electivire: b -> c+
Disagree with it going that low, B- is more where it belongs. It's mediocre, but it's still got a diverse movepool, decent power, and 95 base speed. It's also somewhat difficult to switch into easily until you know what set it is.

simipour: b -> d+
Simipour's perfectly fine where it is. NP with good speed and perfect coverage between grass knot/ice beam/hydro pump is good, able to sweep and clean pretty decently, baring misses of course.

swellow: b -> b-
Swellow is fine where it is. Gets whittled down easily, but once bulky steel/rock types are gone it can devastate with it's amazing speed and stab facades.

Drifblim: b- -> c-
I can agree with it going down, but C- sounds too low. C or C+.

grumpig: b- -> c
Why is this B- again? C+ seems fair for it, since it has a lot of competition and there are better fire spam answers, yet it's unique quirks still give it a decent niche.

rotom-frost: b- -> c
Strongly disagree, offensive ice is pretty nice and it's a very effective scarfer with a variety of other good sets like subsplit. Rock weakness sucks but it still has good bulk and power and hits pretty hard with blizzards. Not having major problems with most common electric answers and being able to kill or whittle them down with blizzard easily is good too.

exeggutor: b- -> a-
Agree with it getting raised, though B+ sounds better since it still has awful speed and special bulk which can often halt it from doing much.

ludicolo: b+ -> a-
Agree, Ludicolo is devastating in rain and can do decently outside of it too. Nice gatr check as well.

prinplup: c- -> c+
Agree, Prinplup does it's job pretty well, 3th best defogger after vullaby and togetic imo

 

[ryan]

not overly sold on S-rank Kangaskhan, but I definitely think that Kanga and Uxie are the best choices if we are going to move anything up to S.

btw those were my suggestions. I agree I was a bit harsh on a few (Simipour to D especially, C seems fine for it, but B is ridiculously overrating it).

the problem with Sawk is that there are way too many dedicated Fighting resists around in this meta. you need band to have devastating power to break through most shit, but you cannot spam any one move with it, which is why no one really uses band. fist plate is ok, patches up Sawk's main problem, but misses on lots of KOs.

Vileplume is ridiculously overrated. I don't have much else to say about it. way too many psychics running around, and it doesn't switch into much these days. offensive is ok, but it doesn't even beat gatr.

tops is ok, but it doesn't even switch into fire-types, even when they click their fire-type attacks. I like cryo way more because it's immune to spikes and spins on a lot more shit much more comfortably.

I think everything else I listed is pretty obvious stuff though

oh qwilfish. it's not good at all. taunt spikes is ok, but defensive is pretty much unusable for all the same reasons why defensive poli is mediocre right now.

 

[marilli]

I honestly agree with all the rises on SG's post: notably Exeggutor, Garbodor, and Ludicolo. I guess the penguin can see a bit of a rise, too. People even started putting EQ on Hariyama now when it literally is there for Garbodor. When one of the top mons have to adjust its moveset just to combat something, you know it's a force in the metagame.

Not sure I agree with all the drops, though. I feel he included some controversial ones on purpose, but I think most of the b-'s dropping to c's have a lot of truth to them as I honestly wouldn't use them myself, compared to other stuff in B- like Roselia and Togetic that I would actually use. Probably Most definitely biased because cutemons, but whatever. But literally no one uses stuff like Drifblim, Barbaracle, Grumpig, etc. And I think there's a good reason why no one uses it. I've started playing somewhat intermittently (no real time to ladder lots) for 2~ months now? But I've literally never seen a single Drifblim used by anyone that's half decent and achieve anything, so it's pretty obvious I'm not convinced. Also B- is hella crowded, and it makes sense to drop stuff that isn't honestly very good.

Other than stuff that's suggested already, I'd like to suggest some small tweaks. Mostly the low tier mons, namely raising:
miltank, dusknoir, shedinja, mr.mime.

Flame away.