Metagame ORAS RU: Speculation Thread

[tutterydiglett]

While Pangoro has gotten a much needed boost to its move pool, its still going to be lacking one major thing...Speed. Pangoro is still mediocre when it comes to speed and this is really going to be holding him back from doing much of anything. So while ORAS will help, its not gonna help enough for Pangoro.

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist / Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Gunk Shot
- Hammer Arm

Speed can always be mitigated with the help of a Choice Scarf, which Exploud usually uses to make up for its own subpar base 68 speed. 240+ in Speed is the minimum speed investment Pangoro needs to outspeed the musketeers but the remaining EVs are useless so might as well just put them in Speed to compete w/ other Scarfed Pangoros. Parting Shot provides momentum and is a great move to use in combination of the item, and Knock Off/Gunk Shot are going to be your primary damaging moves imo. Pangoro really lacks any strong Fighting type move outside of Hammer Arm (I don't think he gets any more from the tutors in ORAS), so I guess that's the way to go.

 

[aVocado]

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist / Mold Breaker
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Gunk Shot
- Hammer Arm

Speed can always be mitigated with the help of a Choice Scarf, which Exploud usually uses to make up for its own subpar base 68 speed. 228+ in Speed is the minimum speed investment Pangoro needs to outspeed Timid Delphox. Parting Shot provides momentum and is a great move to use in combination of the item, and Knock Off/Gunk Shot are going to be your primary damaging moves imo. Pangoro really lacks any strong Fighting type move outside of Hammer Arm (I don't think he gets any more from the tutors in ORAS), so I guess that's the way to go.

those 28 HP evs literally do nothing. Does this outspeed Mismagius (base 105)? If not, and max speed does, then just go for max speed.

 

[tutterydiglett]

those 28 HP evs literally do nothing. Does this outspeed Mismagius (base 105)? If not, and max speed does, then just go for max speed.

It does. Hits around 345 Speed with the spread I used.

Mismagius hits 339 with a Positive Speed Nature

Delphox hits 337 with a Positive Speed Nature

EDIT: Actually, you can use 220+ w/ Choice Scarf to still outspeed both Delphox and Mismagius.

 

[Kevun]

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist / Mold Breaker
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Gunk Shot
- Hammer Arm

Speed can always be mitigated with the help of a Choice Scarf, which Exploud usually uses to make up for its own subpar base 68 speed. 228+ in Speed is the minimum speed investment Pangoro needs to outspeed Timid Delphox. Parting Shot provides momentum and is a great move to use in combination of the item, and Knock Off/Gunk Shot are going to be your primary damaging moves imo. Pangoro really lacks any strong Fighting type move outside of Hammer Arm (I don't think he gets any more from the tutors in ORAS), so I guess that's the way to go.

You should always run at least 240 speed to outspeed Durant and the musketeers, although at that point, there's no reason not to just dump all the EVs into speed.

Also, Superpower + Scrappy (which it learns in ORAS) might be a better option over Hammer Arm, since Superpower over two turns still has an average BP of 100, and the drops won't really matter much since you likely won't be staying in multiple turns anyways. Plus, it can ease prediction with things like Doublade and Spiritomb.

 

[atomicllamas]

Pangoro @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist / Mold Breaker
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot
- Gunk Shot
- Hammer Arm

Speed can always be mitigated with the help of a Choice Scarf, which Exploud usually uses to make up for its own subpar base 68 speed. 228+ in Speed is the minimum speed investment Pangoro needs to outspeed Timid Delphox. Parting Shot provides momentum and is a great move to use in combination of the item, and Knock Off/Gunk Shot are going to be your primary damaging moves imo. Pangoro really lacks any strong Fighting type move outside of Hammer Arm (I don't think he gets any more from the tutors in ORAS), so I guess that's the way to go.

It gets drain punch which is probably its best choice for a fighting STAB, or you could go with mold breaker superpower (I think it gets this).

 

[tutterydiglett]

You should always run at least 240 speed to outspeed Durant and the musketeers, although at that point, there's no reason not to just dump all the EVs into speed.

Also, Superpower + Scrappy (which it learns in ORAS) might be a better option over Hammer Arm, since Superpower over two turns still has an average BP of 100, and the drops won't really matter much since you likely won't be staying in multiple turns anyways. Plus, it can ease prediction with things like Doublade and Spiritomb.

Duly noted! Glad it gets something other than Hammer Arm.

 

[EonX]

While Pangoro has gotten a much needed boost to its move pool, its still going to be lacking one major thing...Speed. Pangoro is still mediocre when it comes to speed and this is really going to be holding him back from doing much of anything. So while ORAS will help, its not gonna help enough for Pangoro.

While Speed may hold it back from being as successful as it could be, there's no way that Pangoro won't be usable in RU with the new boosts it has. Base 58 Speed is enough to outpace Gligar with Adamant max Speed, which will generally be enough for what Pangoro wants to do (break down walls) I see something like this being pretty good on Pangoro:

Pangoro @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Gunk Shot / Parting Shot

This is basically all Pangoro will need imo. It'll kind of have the same issue that Clawitzer has as a wallbreaker; having to choose between durability (Choice Band) and full use of its coverage (Life Orb) but it got virtually everything it needed out of ORAS. The big difference is that Pangoro's main STAB, Drain Punch, lets it minimize the impact of LO recoil and other forms of minor damage (weak attacks, hazards, Leech Seed, etc.) Life Orb variants should use Gunk Shot, which KOes Aromatisse if it switches into any other attack on this set (outright OHKOes SpDef variants) while Choice Band variants can use Parting Shot to get a teammate in for a possible setup opportunity. Assault Vest MIGHT be worth a look since it does have STAB Iron Fist-boosted Drain Punch now alongside a Psychic immunity, but I think the opportunity cost may be a bit too much for such a set.

 

[Ares]

While Speed may hold it back from being as successful as it could be, there's no way that Pangoro won't be usable in RU with the new boosts it has. Base 58 Speed is enough to outpace Gligar with Adamant max Speed, which will generally be enough for what Pangoro wants to do (break down walls) I see something like this being pretty good on Pangoro:

Pangoro @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Gunk Shot / Parting Shot

This is basically all Pangoro will need imo. It'll kind of have the same issue that Clawitzer has as a wallbreaker; having to choose between durability (Choice Band) and full use of its coverage (Life Orb) but it got virtually everything it needed out of ORAS. The big difference is that Pangoro's main STAB, Drain Punch, lets it minimize the impact of LO recoil and other forms of minor damage (weak attacks, hazards, Leech Seed, etc.) Life Orb variants should use Gunk Shot, which KOes Aromatisse if it switches into any other attack on this set (outright OHKOes SpDef variants) while Choice Band variants can use Parting Shot to get a teammate in for a possible setup opportunity. Assault Vest MIGHT be worth a look since it does have STAB Iron Fist-boosted Drain Punch now alongside a Psychic immunity, but I think the opportunity cost may be a bit too much for such a set.

I never said that Pangoro was gonna be terrible I said it was gonna be mediocre. People in this thread seem to have a hard time time telling the difference between saying a Pokemon will be mediocre and if it will be terrible. Yes it has similar aspects to Clawitzer, but I still think that because of Pangoro's speed tier it will only be a C+ / B- rank mon. Reason being is that while it has access to a unique move in Parting Shot it is hard pressed to use it without running a scarf imo. I'm trying to be realistic here and not overhype certain Pokemon, Drain Punch and Knock Off are nice but they really arent that big of a boost which is why Pangoro will reside in high C imo.

Edit: Pangoro will do well against more defensive teams I predict, but against faster paced teams I believe it will still struggle because of its low speed tier. Pretty much sums up what I was trying to say.

 

[Punchshroom]

I never said that Pangoro was gonna be terrible I said it was gonna be mediocre. People in this thread seem to have a hard time time telling the difference between saying a Pokemon will be mediocre and if it will be terrible. Yes it has similar aspects to Clawitzer, but I still think that because of Pangoro's speed tier it will only be a C+ / B- rank mon. Reason being is that while it has access to a unique move in Parting Shot it is hard pressed to use it without running a scarf imo. I'm trying to be realistic here and not overhype certain Pokemon, Drain Punch and Knock Off are nice but they really arent that big of a boost which is why Pangoro will reside in high C imo.

So a Pokemon with speed, power, and even unresisted coverage which are comparable to Clawitzer is regarded as terrible as C+ / B-? Granted it is susceptible to more faster Pokemon than Clawitzer, but Pangoro has access to a boosting move in Swords Dance, STAB Knock Off which cripples things, and Iron Fist Drain Punch to recover LO damage, which puts it in a much better light as a wallbreaker in RU. Pangoro's Swords Danced attacks give it enough power to do crazy stuff like OHKO Amoonguss & 2HKO Gligar with Knock Off, and OHKO Solid Rock Rhyperior with Drain Punch, which is pretty batshit insane.

As for Parting Shot, Choiced Pangoro (especially CB Pangoro) has opportunities to use it when forcing out slower vulnerable Pokemon or even act as a slow U-turn, where instead of extra damage on the foe the recipient is treated to an easy setup opportunity.

Edit: Pangoro will do well against more defensive teams I predict, but against faster paced teams I believe it will still struggle because of its low speed tier. Pretty much sums up what I was trying to say.

Well Clawitzer, Emboar, and Exploud have similiar issues, but do they struggle in the tier?

 

[Magnemite]

So a Pokemon with speed, power, and even unresisted coverage which are comparable to Clawitzer is regarded as terrible as C+ / B-? Granted it is susceptible to more faster Pokemon than Clawitzer, but Pangoro has access to a boosting move in Swords Dance, STAB Knock Off which cripples things, and Iron Fist Drain Punch to recover LO damage, which puts it in a much better light as a wallbreaker in RU. Pangoro's Swords Danced attacks give it enough power to do crazy stuff like OHKO Amoonguss & 2HKO Gligar with Knock Off, and OHKO Solid Rock Rhyperior with Drain Punch, which is pretty batshit insane.

As for Parting Shot, Choiced Pangoro (especially CB Pangoro) has opportunities to use it when forcing out slower vulnerable Pokemon or even act as a slow U-turn, where instead of extra damage on the foe the recipient is treated to an easy setup opportunity.


Well Clawitzer, Emboar, and Exploud have similiar issues, but do they struggle in the tier?

Hey, Clawitzer gets Swords Dance too :o

But yeah I can definitely see Pangoro being a really big threat in RU, especially since it can now break Gligar or Aromatisse pretty easily. The thing that sets Pangoro apart from other choiced wallbreakers imo is parting shot. Parting shot is a ridiculously cool move that was always disappointingly limited in terms of distribution, but now that its only user is much better, it should be an incredibly fun move to play around with.

Also I'm not sure if we can talk about them here but we're also likely getting two more megas in the form of mega diancie (lol) and mega SAVIOR DOG, which will be cool too. (This is a speculation thread after all)

Sorry for the short post but I have to go to school, rip

 

[The Leprechaun]

While Speed may hold it back from being as successful as it could be, there's no way that Pangoro won't be usable in RU with the new boosts it has. Base 58 Speed is enough to outpace Gligar with Adamant max Speed, which will generally be enough for what Pangoro wants to do (break down walls) I see something like this being pretty good on Pangoro:

Pangoro @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Gunk Shot / Parting Shot

This is basically all Pangoro will need imo. It'll kind of have the same issue that Clawitzer has as a wallbreaker; having to choose between durability (Choice Band) and full use of its coverage (Life Orb) but it got virtually everything it needed out of ORAS. The big difference is that Pangoro's main STAB, Drain Punch, lets it minimize the impact of LO recoil and other forms of minor damage (weak attacks, hazards, Leech Seed, etc.) Life Orb variants should use Gunk Shot, which KOes Aromatisse if it switches into any other attack on this set (outright OHKOes SpDef variants) while Choice Band variants can use Parting Shot to get a teammate in for a possible setup opportunity. Assault Vest MIGHT be worth a look since it does have STAB Iron Fist-boosted Drain Punch now alongside a Psychic immunity, but I think the opportunity cost may be a bit too much for such a set.

I do like this set but i kinda feel that choice band sets with Superpower + Scrappy will actually suit it better. As with any choice sets, there will be mind games regarding which move you'll lock yourself into and the fact that scrappy will remove an immunity and give it more options is pretty big imo, especially as superpower is actually the exact same power as iron fist hammer arm. Obviously life orb sets will probably prefer iron fist + drain punch because of the hp recovery as well as the fact that if a ghost does come in, you can smash it with a knock off. Either way though it's hard to see pangoro not doing anything this gen with all the toys its been given.

 

[EonX]

I never said that Pangoro was gonna be terrible I said it was gonna be mediocre. People in this thread seem to have a hard time time telling the difference between saying a Pokemon will be mediocre and if it will be terrible. Yes it has similar aspects to Clawitzer, but I still think that because of Pangoro's speed tier it will only be a C+ / B- rank mon. Reason being is that while it has access to a unique move in Parting Shot it is hard pressed to use it without running a scarf imo. I'm trying to be realistic here and not overhype certain Pokemon, Drain Punch and Knock Off are nice but they really arent that big of a boost which is why Pangoro will reside in high C imo.

Edit: Pangoro will do well against more defensive teams I predict, but against faster paced teams I believe it will still struggle because of its low speed tier. Pretty much sums up what I was trying to say.

I don't see it being down around C+ / B- at all. It has the same exact Speed tier as Clawitzer, a Pokemon that's A- rank rn because it destroys most defensive Pokemon in the tier and can take a hit or two from certain offensive threats. How is Pangoro any different in that respect? Pangoro's newfound coverage lets it take on just about every defensive Pokemon in the tier with at least decent success and it has the ability to OHKO Gligar and Aromatisse (needs a little prior damage for Aroma) which are arguably the 2 most common answers to Fighting-types in RU. About the only common Fighting-type check / counter that Pangoro can't reliably deal with is Weezing, which still gets crippled by Knock Off. I'm not trying to overhype Pangoro, but I am comparing it to a Pokemon that has a very similar stat spread, great coverage, and the same Speed tier as Pangoro and has proven to be a very powerful wallbreaker in the tier. (Pangoro has more HP but less base defenses than Clawitzer. 1 point differential between Pangoro's Attack and Clawitzer's Special Attack. Ability to use a pivot move over a specialized coverage move on Choice sets, etc.)

The Leprechaun Scrappy Superpower is kinda nice to ease prediction I guess, but I would think the Band set would want to spam STAB Knock Off most of the time anyway. That said, Superpower does hit a good bit harder on the first turn, and Pangoro will likely be forced out after a turn or two anyway like most other Band / Specs users. So Superpower has merit on the Band set regardless of if Pangoro decides to use Scrappy or not imo.

 

[Punchshroom]

1 point differential between Pangoro's Attack and Clawitzer's Special Attack

Pangoro has 124 Base Attack, Clawitzer has 120 Base Special Attack.

 

[Pearl]

In my opinion, people are really underrating Steelix; while it's true that it's not a killing machine such as Lopunny, Sceptile or Beedrill, nor flat out interesting like Altaria or Glalie, it'll be a very strong option once the tier has settled. There's also the fact that people are misunderstanding its role on a team. There's no reason at all to waste a Mega Evolution slot on a Stealth Rock setter that gets utterly destroyed by Gligar. Instead, here's a sample set (I'm breeding a ton of these too, so if you'd like to have one feel free to contact me):

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Offensive Curse Steelix looks like a below-average idea at first. However, it is deceivingly strong. Here's an example:

+1 252+ Atk Steelix Gyro Ball (135 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 165-195 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

Same Gligar's damage on Steelix:

0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 56-68 (15.8 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO

It can easily set up on the likes of Gligar and proceed to dish out good amounts of damage. If you still don't believe the potential, have this one:

252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 218-260 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That thing is known for OHKOing the likes of Rhyperior when even some Pokemon fail to even 2HKO it with moves such as Aqua Tail (god bless Drapion).

Gyro Ball and Earthquake are the chosen STAB moves, and Explosion is there to blow through anything in a last resort. It severally weakens Pokemon such as Alomomola, paving the way for teammates like Sharpedo (whose Mega Evolution sucks by the way) to sweep through.

However, it's really easy to understand why this set doesn't satisfy everyone's likings (lack of longevity, harder time tanking some of the stuff it's supposed to check and so on), so here's another one for more defensive teams:

Steelix @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Gyro Ball / Heavy Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Same as the above set, but rather than a deceivingly strong lure against stuff like Fighting-types and so on, this variant works best a slow set up sweeper for stall teams, absorbing Sleep and Trick, tanking Electric-type moves and checking the likes of Exploud, similarly to how Registeel works in the current metagame. It also has (obviously) an easier time getting more than 1 boost, making it more powerful overall under a lot of circumstances. Gyro Ball's low PP might be undesired at times though, due to this set's likeness to stay around for longer, so Heavy Slam shows up as a safer option for those occasions.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Fletchinder is going to be an absolute boss in ORAS RU. It didn't gain anything through the tutors, but with new Megas such as Sceptile, Lopunny, and Beedrill combined with the newly improved Pangoro and Slurpuff, Fletchinder is going to be a fantastic catch-all answer to all of these Pokemon. Its Priority Acrobatics will be an amazing revenge killing tool to defeat Mega Lopunny and Mega Sceptile, among others, as well as Slurpuff to stop it from Unburden sweeping. It also still makes an incredible late-game win condition as with Acrobatics alone, at +2 this thing absolutely will wreck as usual and it has Will-O-Wisp to cripple the newcomer Mega Steelix as well as good old Rhyperior. This thing hasn't changed at all, but the metagame will, and Fletchinder is going to take advantage of it.

I don't know about you guys but I'm really excited to use this thing in ORAS RU. It got much better now that it has STAB Outrage to use, and it is going to be quite good imo with its DD set. It can use STAB Outrage to just hit stuff hard and will just wreck stuff now that it has a strong, powerful STAB move that has great neutral coverage, even moreso than EdgeQuake. Now Tyrantrum can just sweep using sheer power alone. It can run something among the lines of DD/Outrage/Stone Edge/EQ or something and sweep like a boss. This will be an even better late-game sweeper than it is now and being able to check Fletchinder and Moltres is still as useful as ever. CB sets and maybe Scarf both seem pretty strong too. I definitely think Tyrantrum will be a heck of a lot better now and I'm really psyched to use this.

As a huge fan of Slurpuff, I was really excited to learn that this thing gets Drain Punch now! The Belly Drum sets got better now, and the CUPCAKE OF DOOM will now bring even more doom to teams now that it can smash its way through Registeel, Magneton, and most Steel-types now except Doublade. Not only can it deal solid damage to Steel-types now (which hence makes it even harder to stop), but the recovery from Drain Punch will help Slurpuff a lot. If Slurpuff can get its KO on something like Registeel, Slurpuff can now finally heal off the Belly Drum damage outside of the Sitrus Berry, so every time this thing clicks Drain Punch it can get to a reasonable health so now it's harder to revenge kill. The Calm Mind set is still quite decent as always. I'm gonna love this thing now more than ever, I'm definitely gonna use this CUPCAKE OF DOOM a lot as soon as ORAS is released.

I'm not going to reiterate what everyone else said about this panda but Pangoro is going to be fantastic in ORAS RU, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if this thing joins the RU crew. It got Knock Off, Ice Punch, Gunk Shot, and plenty others which makes it a fantastic offensive Pokemon, with great overall coverage and good bulk making it a monster of a Pokemon, much like a physical Clawitzer. Parting Shot is also clutch stuff. Also it's a panda, and you don't say no to panda. #neversaynotopanda

This thing is a cool mon, and having Refrigerate Hyper Voice as well as Earth Power is definitely really cool now. An LO+Rock Polish set will definitely be decent, and Aurorus hits hard with Refrigerate Hyper Voice. It also finally has nice coverage in Earth Power to smash Delphox and other Fire-types in RU so it'll definitely be a viable threat now. Too bad it has the worst defensive typing ever...I find this mon really interesting both competitively and aesthetically.

Other than that, Delphox, Aromatisse, and Clawitzer gained pretty much nothing, and Malamar got Knock Off but it's still ass lol.

Anyways, I'll post about some other Megas later, just wanted to give in some thoughts about a few of the buffed mons.

 

[El Coqui]

Sorry if what I say is repeated because I didn't read the previous 8pgs...

Emboar getting ZenHeadbutt I think is a nice change. Mono-attacking with FlareBlitz, EQ, Suckerpunch, Zen HB/Hammer Arm would be great all around.

Mega Altaria will be a huge threat I think offensively and a strong defensive poke. DD + Pixelate Return and Outrage, decent coverage moves all around, boosting moves like DD and Agility (for a special set?), support/recovery moves like Roost and Heal Bell.

Mega Beedrill will be buzzing around here if its not put into BL2 as I expect it to.

MegaSceptile is interesting as I can see it going to UU but at the same time I can't. It has a good movepool and becomes a Dragon Type but Lightning Rod as an ability...? It's good for stuf like Heliolisk and Jolteon but you'd have to make sure to Mega early idk how I feel about that.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Sorry if what I say is repeated because I didn't read the previous 8pgs...

Emboar getting ZenHeadbutt I think is a nice change. Mono-attacking with FlareBlitz, EQ, Suckerpunch, Zen HB/Hammer Arm would be great all around.

SE Zen Headbutt has less power than a neutral Flare Blitz...

 

[aVocado]

Yeah, Emboar getting zen headbutt really doesn't add to its viability.

 

[EonX]

Sorry if what I say is repeated because I didn't read the previous 8pgs...

Emboar getting ZenHeadbutt I think is a nice change. Mono-attacking with FlareBlitz, EQ, Suckerpunch, Zen HB/Hammer Arm would be great all around.

Mega Altaria will be a huge threat I think offensively and a strong defensive poke. DD + Pixelate Return and Outrage, decent coverage moves all around, boosting moves like DD and Agility (for a special set?), support/recovery moves like Roost and Heal Bell.

Mega Beedrill will be buzzing around here if its not put into BL2 as I expect it to.

MegaSceptile is interesting as I can see it going to UU but at the same time I can't. It has a good movepool and becomes a Dragon Type but Lightning Rod as an ability...? It's good for stuf like Heliolisk and Jolteon but you'd have to make sure to Mega early idk how I feel about that.

I feel Mega Altaria will be better served to use Roost on special sets so it can pivot into attacks more reliably. That said, I think Agility might have some merit since most people will probably save physical walls if they see a Mega Altaria being saved up for late-game.

As for Mega Sceptile, the ability is sweet in that it can switch into T-Wave users with impunity now and benefit from it. This is really cool as now the only ways to paralyze Sceptile is through Glare or Body Slam. Sub + 3 Attacks quite simply destroys offensive teams due to its blazing fast base 145 Speed and great Special Attack. (like, seriously, it outspeeds positive nature base 80 Scarfers) There's not a doubt in my mind that it will move to UU at the very least just because of these facts.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Pretty much nobody noticed that Delphox has Dazzling Gleam now btw. It will have limited use, but now Spescfox can 2HKO Vest Druddigon which is pretty cool.

 

[aVocado]

Pretty much nobody noticed that Delphox has Dazzling Gleam now btw. It will have limited use, but now Spescfox can 2HKO Vest Druddigon which is pretty cool.

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 195-231 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Kevun]

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 195-231 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

He did say AV Druddigon, which like barely avoids a 2HKO, but Druddigon is a really shaky counter at best and Dazzling Gleam only does marginally better damage.

 

[EonX]

He did say AV Druddigon, which like barely avoids a 2HKO, but Druddigon is a really shaky counter at best and Dazzling Gleam only does marginally better damage.

Psyshock hits a Pokemon's physical Defense, so AV is a moot point when it comes to Psyshock. That said, I guess it will be kind of neat to have something to hit Spiritomb with that is perfectly accurate. Still incredibly niche though imo.

 

[mallpal]

speaking of spiritomb, it's probably going to see a downturn in viability if/when houndoom drops, as SAVIOR DOG is both competition as an offensive dark type and a really great check.

 

[g]

Pretty much nobody noticed that Delphox has Dazzling Gleam now btw. It will have limited use, but now Spescfox can 2HKO Vest Druddigon which is pretty cool.

252 SpA Choice Specs Delphox Psyshock vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Druddigon: 195-231 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It 2hkos ZWEILLOUS