ORAS Doubles Metagame Discussion

[Stratos]

i've been using cune a lot too and really liking it in this metagame. a bulky water is indispensable with so many threats and cune, unlike rotom-w, has ice beam and tailwind, which are crucial in this much more speed-based, and fairly dragon-heavy metagame

 

[Bughouse]

I too have been using Cune and loving it. Also if you're using Mega Mence and aren't using Jirachi with it, you're doing it wrong.

 

[psVoltage]

This metagame seems fun; there's a lot to explore, and (most of) the new mega evolutions are really helpful at balancing power.

A lot of people are excited about Mega Salamence. I can see where that stance is coming from, I mean, certainly it's very powerful and fast. That said, its Dragon Dance set is definitely not what I expected in terms of power and damage output. Unless you forgo Protect (and doing so has its own risks), the boosting set only has two more slots for coverage, which leaves it vulnerable to being walled, regardless of which moves it chooses to fill those slots with. I ran Return and Dragon Claw; the best idea is probably Return + something like Earthquake to hit Steels / Electric-types that resist Return. However, that still leaves you walled by Rotom-W and Thundurus, and forces you to run partners that can either sponge the Earthquake or cycle Protect.

But don't get me wrong it's still extremely powerful, very easy to synergize with, and very dangerous, smashing teams even at neutral boost (+1 and Intimidate). However, I would assume that its true power shines in the special set. That I'll still have to test out myself.

One gem I think deserves more recognition is Mega Swampert. This guy is immensely powerful and forms a particular core that is very difficult to overcome. Mega Swampert + Talonflame + Shaymin-S is an extremely potent Rain core that can make quick work of other teams, and may enable Rain to dominate the Gen 6 metagame. Mega Swampert's main concerns are as follows: Grass-types, Intimidate from Fighting-types, and Rotom-W. All three can easily be solved by a Shaymin-S or a Talonflame, or even both if you really want to lay down the pain, as the three synergize both offensively and defensively (hey, FWG!) The speed and power of this combination is immense, and you can't even use priority to nullify it. Walling it is pretty much out of the question; Intimidate barely helps because Rain boosts Water power more than 1 Intimidate can lower it. Also, good luck muscling past them, as Talonflame can run Will-o-Wisp and Shaymin-S can just flinch things to death. The trio has powerful priority, immense speed, great type synergy, flinching, spread, and even support capability (WoW from Talonflame or Tailwind). Sand and Sun are completely swept away; Chlorophyll sweepers collapse under Talonflame and Excadrill can't even 2HKO Mega Swampert with EQ, and that's with minimal defensive investment.

Seriously guys, this trio is powerful. Prepare for it or be swept away.

So yeah, this core is pretty amazing. Talonflame + Shaymin just messes up many of pert's counters its unreal. The only thing I would suggest for this core is a way to stop/check trick room as needless to say this core is weak to it. Other then that though, really solid and I thank you for coming up with this.

 

[Speedholes]

What's the general opinion of Mega Sceptile? It's Leaf Storm is hella strong and with a moveset of Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/HP Ice it's able to outspeed and OHKO a lot of common Pokemon, like Scarf Lando-T, 252 HP Suicune, unboosted Mega Mence, Mega Diancie and standard Rotom-W. Lightningrod is an excellent ability especially since Twave is so popular right now and making both your mons immune is pretty big. Unfortunately The most popular Twave user, Thundurus, utterly destroys Sceptile with HP Ice. Ice, Dragon, Fairy and Flying are all awful things to be weak to and Sceptile only really packs Focus Blast or HP Ground (or EQ?) to hit Heatran. It kind of reminds me of Mamoswine, more of an anti-metagame threat that beats many common Pokemon while having tricky weaknesses to cover for or build around, only it gets walled by Tran instead of Washtom. It also seems like less of an anti-rain mon compared to what a lot of us first anticipated since it gets outsped and wrecked by every Swift Swimmer.

So what do people think? Will Sceptile's niche be worth a spot on a team or is it too hard to cover for to be worth it? Is it too similar to other Pokemon like Skymin? Does being limited to Leaf Storm for Grass STAB hurt its viability?

 

[Fangame10]

What's the general opinion of Mega Sceptile? It's Leaf Storm is hella strong and with a moveset of Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/HP Ice it's able to outspeed and OHKO a lot of common Pokemon, like Scarf Lando-T, 252 HP Suicune, unboosted Mega Mence, Mega Diancie and standard Rotom-W. Lightningrod is an excellent ability especially since Twave is so popular right now and making both your mons immune is pretty big. Unfortunately The most popular Twave user, Thundurus, utterly destroys Sceptile with HP Ice. Ice, Dragon, Fairy and Flying are all awful things to be weak to and Sceptile only really packs Focus Blast or HP Ground (or EQ?) to hit Heatran. It kind of reminds me of Mamoswine, more of an anti-metagame threat that beats many common Pokemon while having tricky weaknesses to cover for or build around, only it gets walled by Tran instead of Washtom. It also seems like less of an anti-rain mon compared to what a lot of us first anticipated since it gets outsped and wrecked by every Swift Swimmer.

So what do people think? Will Sceptile's niche be worth a spot on a team or is it too hard to cover for to be worth it? Is it too similar to other Pokemon like Skymin?

Mega Sceptile while it has a few niches has a severe ice weakness and sub-par ability. Most rain pokemon carry ice beam rendering it useless against them and Electric moves are some-what uncommon and only used mainly by rotom-w and thunderus. It'd probably be a better singles pokemon but it simply cannont work as it's intended to simply for its ice weak typing, low defensive stats, and unnecessary ability. you could possibly use it on a Discharge team but that's some Low ladder stuff there

 

[Heliosan]

What's the general opinion of Mega Sceptile? It's Leaf Storm is hella strong and with a moveset of Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/HP Ice it's able to outspeed and OHKO a lot of common Pokemon, like Scarf Lando-T, 252 HP Suicune, unboosted Mega Mence, Mega Diancie and standard Rotom-W. Lightningrod is an excellent ability especially since Twave is so popular right now and making both your mons immune is pretty big. Unfortunately The most popular Twave user, Thundurus, utterly destroys Sceptile with HP Ice. Ice, Dragon, Fairy and Flying are all awful things to be weak to and Sceptile only really packs Focus Blast or HP Ground (or EQ?) to hit Heatran. It kind of reminds me of Mamoswine, more of an anti-metagame threat that beats many common Pokemon while having tricky weaknesses to cover for or build around, only it gets walled by Tran instead of Washtom. It also seems like less of an anti-rain mon compared to what a lot of us first anticipated since it gets outsped and wrecked by every Swift Swimmer.

So what do people think? Will Sceptile's niche be worth a spot on a team or is it too hard to cover for to be worth it? Is it too similar to other Pokemon like Skymin? Does being limited to Leaf Storm for Grass STAB hurt its viability?

I tried to make it work, but it's been difficult in rain matchups and also there's Talonflame. I think I just need to give some time to it, but I personally have had a lot more success with other megas. As of right now, somewhat lackluster, but I think it just needs time.

 

[Level 51]

actually, I believe Lolk used mega sceptile on the ladder to reasonable success. while I admit I was sceptical at first (PUNS GALORE) I think it actually works pretty well!! if it has the right support (esp. vs TR) I could see it working p. well with HP Fire or Ground.

 

[Lolk]

Honestly, Mega Sceptile with discharge spam is a very ez way to climb the ladder, but it does not perform that well in a tourney setting. Mega Sceptile cannot switch into anything to save it's life, and dragon pulse fail's to KO many Dragon-types like Hydreigon, Salamence, and Latias. Plus everything has HP Ice/Ice Beam now so many pokes can just take a hit + kill it such as Cress. Speed Control is much more popular with all of these fast ORAS megas so it's awesome speed only helps somewhat. Mega Sceptile makes a cool lategame cleaner when everything has prior damage, but aside from that it is deadweight on my team lol.

Also anyone using Giga Drain > Leaf Storm is doing it hella wrong.

 

[Heliosan]

Honestly, Mega Sceptile with discharge spam is a very ez way to climb the ladder, but it does not perform that well in a tourney setting. Mega Sceptile cannot switch into anything to save it's life, and dragon pulse fail's to KO many Dragon-types like Hydreigon, Salamence, and Latias. Plus everything has HP Ice now so many pokes can just take a hit + kill it such as Cress. Speed Control is much more popular with all of these fast ORAS megas so it's awesome speed only helps somewhat. Mega Sceptile makes a cool lategame cleaner when everything has prior damage, but aside from that it is deadweight on my team lol.

Also anyone using Giga Drain > Leaf Storm is doing it hella wrong.

Cresselia can use Ice Beam instead of Hidden Power Ice, but yes, you are indeed correct that Discharge spam with Mega Sceptile wrecks low ladder. I would say that it can easily switch into expected Thunder Waves or Electric attacks aimed at something like Gyarados for example, but that's still a huge risk.

I am considering using Suicune and dropping my Rotom-W since it just checks Mega Salamence quite well and has the added utility of Tailwind for great speed control. I sure hope that thing will be VGC legal this year and the rules would make it worth running. (Who knows, it might be getting that hinted Water Absorb hidden ability this gen).

 

[Speedholes]

On the topic of Suicune, here is what seems like a nice spread for ORAS (which I'm sure people have already figured out):

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 136 SpA / 8 SpD / 32 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump/Scald
- Ice Beam
- Tailwind
- Protect

Enough Defense to survive a +1 Double-Edge from Jolly Mega Mence, with enough SpA to OHKO with Ice Beam. The Speed allows you to outrun Mega Sceptile under Tailwind so you can Ice Beam it, with the few leftover put into SpD. Hydro Pump or Scald for classic power vs reliability+burn chance, keep in mind Hydro Pump still only 2HKOs Heatran. Sitrus is better than lefties right now imo since getting the burst heal after tanking a strong hit is worth more and can let you get up a clutch Tailwind. If you want to run Lefties then use a spread of 240HP/88Def/12SpD to hit a leftovers number with the same defensive benchmark.

 

[qsns]

mega glalie is kind of bad but it's really really fun to use :] so if you want to try it, here's a good core with it:

Gardevoir @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Helping Hand
- Moonblast​

enter mega glalie (Glalie) @ Glalitite
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Return
- Earthquake
- Protect​

​

Stole the Gard set right out of Dashspin's Sun RMT and tbh it works really well with Glalie. Main reason to use it is Telepathy, allowing it to dodge Explosion and EQ from Glalie. Thanks to the Icy Wind support, you can afford to run Adamant and Taunt is really nice for shutting down Protects. Helping Hand ofc is for Esplosion. Glalie has a pretty standard set, EQ is to nail Tranners and I prefer Return > Double-Edge so you have a good chance of taking a hit before exploding if needed.

For best results / the most fun, pair with another Explosion user to clean up (scarf lando-t)

​

 

[Bughouse]

You can also do the above with Imprison and Protect, instead of Taunt :)

 

[Burn the Pages]

I feel that Gallade always has the opportunity to sweep but it is always cursed with terrible abilities.

 

[Enki]

Well, here we are with new smogon doubles stuff, strong new mega evolutions should change the tier and usage imo. The first 'mon could have a huge rule on doubles is mega salamence, thanks to his ability before mega evolution, it be very annoying, and after that he has dragon dance and very strong stab thanks to aerilate.

Mega Salamence

Salamence (M) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Protect
- Substitute / Earthquake / Roost / Dragon Claw / Filler

Another strong doubles protagonist is mega metagross, huge atk, good bulk and very good speed; metagross is a 'mon with good base atk, but thanks to his ability, his main stabs are stronger than metagross (no mega). Good speed could outspeed hydreigon and tie with latias (before mega evolution he can't), and take hits from mega salamence and KO him.

Mega Metagross

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Protect
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt

The last but not least, mega gallade, really great mon. It has nice atk and speed, and decent sdef. Thanks to his ability it destroy mega kanghaskan, a big threat of doubles (it was suspected tho), and nice stabs, he makes an offensive hitmontop's work.

Mega Gallade

Gallade @ Galladeite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt / Substitute / Ice Punch / Filler

It is a great mon with a nice movepool, could help a lot.

There are the 'mons which I espect a lot from there on doubles. I think mega diance is another big doubles protagonist.

 

[qwerts]

From what I've seen so far, a lot of the mega's get lots of filler moves/moveset choices which makes it seem like its going to be a lot of fun trying to scout for moves/predict movesets

 

[Enki]

From what I've seen so far, a lot of the mega's get lots of filler moves/moveset choices which makes it seem like its going to be a lot of fun trying to scout for moves/predict movesets

That because mega pokemons have a nice movepool, and you can choose the move adapting it to the team. I think it is a good thing.

 

[psVoltage]

What about special Mega Salamence? It seems like it would be a pretty good surprise set with Hyper voice, Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast. All that, It could also have a pretty cool mixed set. I don't have time atm to test it myself but It just seemed cool to me at this time.

 

[qsns]

What about special Mega Salamence? It seems like it would be a pretty good surprise set with Hyper voice, Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Fire Blast. All that, It could also have a pretty cool mixed set. I don't have time atm to test it myself but It just seemed cool to me at this time.

I'm working on a team right now with Mega Salamence + Sand, and honestly I see that's the only way it could be a better choice than its physical counterpart. Special Mence has great synergy with the Excadrill + TTar combo, though, giving a Fighting resist, Ground immunity for Exca, and a reliable way to dent or take out Rotom-Wash, Keldeo, and Landorus-T, all huge threats to sand. It does all of this without really compounding a Washtom or Landorus-T "weakness", unlike normal DD mence. Besides that, I don't see it being relevant, as DD mence is just too good on most teams to give up for a decently hard hitting special attacker.


edit: disregard what I said, i just realized normal LO/specs salamence does the same thing without taking up the mega slot. haven't actually put special mega mence into practice yet (the speed might be useful I guess) but the more I think about it, the worse of an idea it becomes x_x stick to physical if you're going mega

 

[psVoltage]

I'm working on a team right now with Mega Salamence + Sand, and honestly I see that's the only way it could be a better choice than its physical counterpart. Special Mence has great synergy with the Excadrill + TTar combo, though, giving a Fighting resist, Ground immunity for Exca, and a reliable way to dent or take out Rotom-Wash, Keldeo, and Landorus-T, all huge threats to sand. It does all of this without really compounding a Washtom or Landorus-T "weakness", unlike normal DD mence. Besides that, I don't see it being relevant, as DD mence is just too good on most teams to give up for a decently hard hitting special attacker.

The DD set is no doubt amazing, but I'm going to experiment with special/ mixed regardless just because. I never thought about sand however, that seems pretty cool.

 

[Speedholes]

I feel that Gallade always has the opportunity to sweep but it is always cursed with terrible abilities.

Inner Focus is a great ability for Mega Gallade. It's basically what affords it its niche of being able to destroy most every common Fake Out user bar Sableye with just its STABs.

Mega Gallade is a strong attacker but it's not meant as a sweeper in Doubles. Its wide movepool also gives it a lot of usable options for coverage or utility, and it can pull out unexpected stuff like Substitute, Swords Dance, Taunt, Encore, Quick Guard and WoW. Great mon imo.

 

[Victorious B.I.G.]

I personally have been really liking Mega Camerupt at the moment on the ladder because so many people do not prepare for Trick Room and then they just bopped by Camerupt's Sheer Force-boosted attacks and then having allies to cover things that Camerupt has a bad matchup against is just great.

If you're laddering without having prepared for trick room then you're either bad, clueless, or literally asking to lose, because 95% of the ladder is trick room.

 

[Fangame10]

I decided to make a set for the worse mega just because

Lame>>>

Bad pokemon (Audino-Mega) @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Trick Room
- Wish

We all know this pokemon is useless, it wastes a mega slot and is completely outclassed by Cresselia, in fact everything everyone will say about this pokemon about it being bad will be absolutely 100% true and I won't argue with you at all because of how bad it is.
But finding some use in this useless Pokemon could be interesting. One thing it dose have is a fairy type and resistance to dark and ghost types...but it's defenses are not like cress soo meh. It can wish...if you like...wanted to heal a pokemon...which prob isn't too good either....maybe it can heal a status effect... Overall this completely outclassed pokemon dose not offer anything more than Diancie did...but we should still find a use for it somehow...pls someone ladder with this thing and I will consider u god.

Although to be fair to mega audino it makes good use as a cress replacement in UU...if you like wasting mega slots....

 

[Heliosan]

If you're laddering without having prepared for trick room then you're either bad, clueless, or literally asking to lose, because 95% of the ladder is trick room.

Yeah, I started off with the Camerupt team in the low ladder and people just had nothing for my team and Camerupt just cleaned house.

 

[Heliosan]

The DD set is no doubt amazing, but I'm going to experiment with special/ mixed regardless just because. I never thought about sand however, that seems pretty cool.

I think Fire Blast is a perfectly justifiable move to have on Mega Salamence along with dual STABs in Dragon Claw and Frustration. As for a full-special Salamence...eh, I think Specs or Scarf is probably a stronger option than giving up your mega slot, but I think having a full special mega salamence is good Intimidate bait and if you pair it up with something like Bisharp you got yourself something working.

 

[Burn the Pages]

Inner Focus is a great ability for Mega Gallade. It's basically what affords it its niche of being able to destroy most every common Fake Out user bar Sableye with just its STABs.

Mega Gallade is a strong attacker but it's not meant as a sweeper in Doubles. Its wide movepool also gives it a lot of usable options for coverage or utility, and it can pull out unexpected stuff like Substitute, Swords Dance, Taunt, Encore, Quick Guard and WoW. Great mon imo.

I agree! Gallade has such a wide move pool and it can be used in many different situations and play many roles as a team supporter. Inner Focus isn't a bad ability at all, but in my opinion, its not necessarily the best. Gallade's ability to stop common Fake Out users is spectacular. But, Mega Gallade's possibilities would be even greater if he had a different ability. For example, If Mega Gallade's ability was "no guard", its value would be much more. Mega Gallade would be much more useful if he didn't follow in the footsteps of Gallade.