silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
You can just run greninja, it is much faster, much stronger and doesn't lock itself into one move. Oh, and you're not gonna outspeed anything with leftovers lol.
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Resource Creative and Underrated Sets: ORAS Edition (NO SHITTY GIMMICKS, Read Post #419)
- Thread starter Clone
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This is set may most likely qualify as a gimmick and I apologize in advance if it does. This is a set that not only catches people by surprise, but it fulfills its role surprisingly well. What is this set you may ask? It is Huge Power Azu's lesser used brother, Sap Sipper Azu.
Azumarill Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Toxic
This set is a huge "Fuck You" to Mega Sceptile and defensive Chesnaught. It can even beat Ferrothorn 1v1 by knocking off its leftovers, fishing for a scald burn, then wearing it down with ice beams. This can also take on the likes of Lati@s lacking Thunderbolt and Psychic. It provides good utility overall and can be a good check to some other physical offensive mons in a pinch. Its defenses aren't Slowbro caliber but it works well. The best way I've found to play this set it almost like a Magic Bounce user: just throw it in there. Except this time, only against grass types. Venu lacking Sludge Bomb are also walled by this set. One more thing to note is that it will always live a Gunk Shot from standard Greninja from full health, and you can return by going for knock off making it less of a threat later on.
And now, calcs:
Like I said, I apologize if it appears too gimmicky to be viable, but I've been using it and it seems to work. I would put replays, but as of now PS is still down.
Azumarill Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Toxic
This set is a huge "Fuck You" to Mega Sceptile and defensive Chesnaught. It can even beat Ferrothorn 1v1 by knocking off its leftovers, fishing for a scald burn, then wearing it down with ice beams. This can also take on the likes of Lati@s lacking Thunderbolt and Psychic. It provides good utility overall and can be a good check to some other physical offensive mons in a pinch. Its defenses aren't Slowbro caliber but it works well. The best way I've found to play this set it almost like a Magic Bounce user: just throw it in there. Except this time, only against grass types. Venu lacking Sludge Bomb are also walled by this set. One more thing to note is that it will always live a Gunk Shot from standard Greninja from full health, and you can return by going for knock off making it less of a threat later on.
And now, calcs:
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 268-320 (66.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 36-42 (8.9 - 10.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 85-101 (21 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile: 200-236 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 70.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 88-104 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 80-96 (26.4 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (44 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 39-46 (9.6 - 11.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 36-42 (8.9 - 10.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 85-101 (21 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile: 200-236 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 70.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 88-104 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 80-96 (26.4 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (44 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 39-46 (9.6 - 11.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Like I said, I apologize if it appears too gimmicky to be viable, but I've been using it and it seems to work. I would put replays, but as of now PS is still down.
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
Yes it definitely is gimmick, its true that in the oras meta Ir has some nice resistances, but that's about it, without huge power it is Piss weak and it can't take advantage of decent defensive stats because it lacks any relevant support move including a recovery move. All it can do is just start spamming toxic scald and knock off to inflict some passive damage and take away annoying items. I suggest encore>Ice beam so at least it doesn't becomes setup baitThis is set may most likely qualify as a gimmick and I apologize in advance if it does. This is a set that not only catches people by surprise, but it fulfills its role surprisingly well. What is this set you may ask? It is Huge Power Azu's lesser used brother, Sap Sipper Azu.
Azumarill Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off
- Toxic
This set is a huge "Fuck You" to Mega Sceptile and defensive Chesnaught. It can even beat Ferrothorn 1v1 by knocking off its leftovers, fishing for a scald burn, then wearing it down with ice beams. This can also take on the likes of Lati@s lacking Thunderbolt and Psychic. It provides good utility overall and can be a good check to some other physical offensive mons in a pinch. Its defenses aren't Slowbro caliber but it works well. The best way I've found to play this set it almost like a Magic Bounce user: just throw it in there. Except this time, only against grass types. Venu lacking Sludge Bomb are also walled by this set. One more thing to note is that it will always live a Gunk Shot from standard Greninja from full health, and you can return by going for knock off making it less of a threat later on.
And now, calcs:4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 268-320 (66.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Chesnaught Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 36-42 (8.9 - 10.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 85-101 (21 - 25%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sceptile: 200-236 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- 70.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 88-104 (29.1 - 34.4%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Azumarill Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 80-96 (26.4 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (44 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Azumarill: 39-46 (9.6 - 11.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Like I said, I apologize if it appears too gimmicky to be viable, but I've been using it and it seems to work. I would put replays, but as of now PS is still down.
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
Yes this kind of set as always been theoryzed (probably it was also actually used, But i haven't played oras a lot so dunno). It works well vs offensive teams, what i would suggest is HJK>drain punch, it hits much harder and you don't need recovery, when you are at Low health just use healing wishI haven't tested this so far, but it seems like it could be very good. Give me your opinions.
sexist... (Lopunny) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber-->Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Healing Wish
- Ice Punch
Lopunny's Fake Out+Drain Punch not only always kills Greninja, Lopunny is also extremely fast... and it gets healing wish. Sure, this would only be for specified teams, say, ones that get worn down fast, such as hyper offense, but on those teams, it might be really good. Ice Punch to bop Gliscor and The Landorus duo, of course.
At the very least, Return/frustration almost always should be ran on mLop. She's too much of a hit and run Poke, and if she is going to be using Drain Punch, it should be because she is behind a sub. With that said, HJK should be ran over Drain Punch. Ice Punch is a bit situational. There are only a few things that ice punch covers, and for the most part, those things are 2HKO'd by Retun/Frustration. If you're going to run an offensive set w/ Healing wish, drop Ice Punch imo. Granted, I never ran Fake Out, so that can be dropped as well. But, I'm sure that's a statement many are going to be disagreeing with. It's all dependent on what your team needs, that's really all the other two moveslots are needed for aside from Return and HJK.I haven't tested this so far, but it seems like it could be very good. Give me your opinions.
sexist... (Lopunny) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber-->Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Healing Wish
- Ice Punch
Lopunny's Fake Out+Drain Punch not only always kills Greninja, Lopunny is also extremely fast... and it gets healing wish. Sure, this would only be for specified teams, say, ones that get worn down fast, such as hyper offense, but on those teams, it might be really good. Ice Punch to bop Gliscor and The Landorus duo, of course.
I've been seeing a lot of 'I haven't used it much' or 'I haven't really tested this out yet, so sorry if it's a gimmick' and stuff along those lines, so if that's the case, then USE IT AND POST REPLAYS.
It's in the rules for a reason; I'm not gonna archive your set because you think it's good. I need to see that it's good. Please stop posting bad sets. This happened with the last thread and I don't want it to happen to this thread. I understand that you guys want to contribute, but please make sure that the sets are actually good. napty's set is a good example of this.
It's in the rules for a reason; I'm not gonna archive your set because you think it's good. I need to see that it's good. Please stop posting bad sets. This happened with the last thread and I don't want it to happen to this thread. I understand that you guys want to contribute, but please make sure that the sets are actually good. napty's set is a good example of this.
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This is honestly pretty standard :X To be fair, MLop's 3 Move Coverage syndrome makes it such that as long as you are running High Jump Kick and Fake Out/Frustration, the remaining 2 moves can be tailored to your team's need. Healing Wish is the most common for offensive teams because they want to have pseudo-cleric and once MLop gets rids of fast unscarfed threats like Greninja and the likes, you can easily Wish onto a sweeper to get a free switch and a clean sweeper to clean up. You can even run Toxic or Heal Bell on your last slot. TL;DR - MLop with 3 standard + 1 random move of choice isn't creativity imo.
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ZANBAKUResh Have you seen Healing Wish on any mega lops? I certainly haven't. Now I feel bad. :(
To be fair, we can't exactly get replays now for anything you came up with in the past few days. Not that I disagree with anything else you said.
Yeah I'm aware lol. Tho once ps comes back online I'd like to see replays.
And as a general notice I'll update the thread tonight / tomorrow.
I already posted this on the sharpedo thread, but I could explain it more here. Here's a M-Sharpedo set I've been running to some great success.
Sharpedo @Sharpedite
Adamant Nature
Speed Boost --> Strong Jaw
100 Hp / 252 Att / 156 Spe
-Aqua Jet
-Crunch
-Ice Fang
-Waterfall
You must be thinking I smelled too much lax incense, but a Mega Shark with HP evs allows him to take resisted hits more casually (shadow ball/sneak, bullet punch, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump). Many things to say, lets start with his speed EVs. Its built to outspeed max positive base 80 pokemon, and because of speed boosts prior to mega evolving, it will reach accelgor's max positive speed (427?) This is more than enough to clean through the unboosted pokemon. Yes, you will lose speed boost upon mega evolving, making switching almost suicidal. But this is where smart playing really comes in, and you bring regular sharpedo on opponents you can KO as regular sharpedo (so no need to protect), and mega evolve only if you know it will dent the rest of the opposition (there were times I switched sharpedo out, but it didn't mega evolve yet). As for the moveset, aqua jet is an interesting move that mauls talonflame, and infernape. It will also prove useful for lando-I if the shark is at +0. Crunch is its strongest move, and waterfall is a stronger water move that is greatly appreciated against fairies, tyranitar and heatran. The reason I use ice fang over ice beam is 1: it can flinch and or freeze. 2: it doesn't make me have to sacrifice bulk by changing the nature/evs 3: Ice beam is only better on pokemon x4 weak to ice. M-Sharpedo can beat more healthy M-pidgeots and breloom(on the switch in) with ice fang when compared to beam-check a damage calculator. Assuming the standard spread of 252 att / 104 spatk / 152 spe...
252+ Atk Strong Jaw M-Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def M-Pidgeot: 294-348 (95.4 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
104 SpA M-Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD M-Pidgeot: 186-220 (60.3 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You can basically picture this for other pokemon that are hit for x2 damage, unless they have lopsided defenses such as rhyperior.
The team I tested with this sharpedo is so far undefeated... but that was only like 7 battles. Mega Sharpedo can be a star, but he definitely needs support (remove azumarill and keldeo plz!)and careful playing. The only thing I'm thinking of rearranging is its speed so that it can outspeed Adamant garchomp at +0.
Sharpedo @Sharpedite
Adamant Nature
Speed Boost --> Strong Jaw
100 Hp / 252 Att / 156 Spe
-Aqua Jet
-Crunch
-Ice Fang
-Waterfall
You must be thinking I smelled too much lax incense, but a Mega Shark with HP evs allows him to take resisted hits more casually (shadow ball/sneak, bullet punch, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump). Many things to say, lets start with his speed EVs. Its built to outspeed max positive base 80 pokemon, and because of speed boosts prior to mega evolving, it will reach accelgor's max positive speed (427?) This is more than enough to clean through the unboosted pokemon. Yes, you will lose speed boost upon mega evolving, making switching almost suicidal. But this is where smart playing really comes in, and you bring regular sharpedo on opponents you can KO as regular sharpedo (so no need to protect), and mega evolve only if you know it will dent the rest of the opposition (there were times I switched sharpedo out, but it didn't mega evolve yet). As for the moveset, aqua jet is an interesting move that mauls talonflame, and infernape. It will also prove useful for lando-I if the shark is at +0. Crunch is its strongest move, and waterfall is a stronger water move that is greatly appreciated against fairies, tyranitar and heatran. The reason I use ice fang over ice beam is 1: it can flinch and or freeze. 2: it doesn't make me have to sacrifice bulk by changing the nature/evs 3: Ice beam is only better on pokemon x4 weak to ice. M-Sharpedo can beat more healthy M-pidgeots and breloom(on the switch in) with ice fang when compared to beam-check a damage calculator. Assuming the standard spread of 252 att / 104 spatk / 152 spe...
252+ Atk Strong Jaw M-Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def M-Pidgeot: 294-348 (95.4 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
104 SpA M-Sharpedo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD M-Pidgeot: 186-220 (60.3 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You can basically picture this for other pokemon that are hit for x2 damage, unless they have lopsided defenses such as rhyperior.
The team I tested with this sharpedo is so far undefeated... but that was only like 7 battles. Mega Sharpedo can be a star, but he definitely needs support (remove azumarill and keldeo plz!)and careful playing. The only thing I'm thinking of rearranging is its speed so that it can outspeed Adamant garchomp at +0.
Qube
Guest
I meant to incorporate the Choice scarf and Timid Nature, but i c/p'd your Empoleon set and forgot to change the details; it's fixed now.
Actually, Defensive Azumarill has some nice merit and has seen some use in even tournament play, it lures in common counters to regular azu and cripples them quite well. However the moveset isn't ideal. Azumarill should run protect over ice beam to rack up residual damage and get leftovers recovery, other than that, it's a fine set.
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
I've never seen it in tournament play O.o. I don't know how effective it can be in XY because its main counters (venu, amoongus, ferro) are immune to toxic and the best azu can do is try to burn them while they setup hazards or just kill it with sludge bomb. The only azu counter that can be beaten with this set is slowbro, other than that this seems really passive and i don't think it is an optimal set.
It's a niche pivot that absorbs spore & leech seed & thus gives no fucks about breloom, ferrothorn, chesnaught while spreading burns - it's handy if ferrothorn in particular is a major THORN in your team's ass, as it's so reliant on leech seed + protect to keep itself healthy through the match. (Also, getting the preemptive burn on moongust and venusaur goes a long way in wearing them down).
One of the main problems that Ferrothorn has in the ORAS meta is that while it can wall lots of things, there's also a lot of Pokemon that can carry a coverage move that 2HKO's or OHKO's it. I was messing around with this Pokemon and noticed that one of its abilities is actually Anticipation. Iron Barbs is a great ability, but Anticipation is just as, if not more useful, for scouting for super-effective coverage moves on the switch. This will allow you to switch out from the likes of HP Fire Latios to another Pokemon that checks it better. It's basically just regular Ferrothorn with the other ability... really useful for those uncomfortable situations where you don't know if you're gonna get destroyed.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Anticipation
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
I really dont agree with this set. Its basically the same exact standard set with a sub optimal ability. You already have protect, so there is absolutely no reason to have anticipation to scout for HP Fire. Iron Barbs is superior is almost every situation, as chipping away at azumarill switch ins and punishing u-turns from landorus-t is too important.
Agreeing with boltsandbombers
what the fuck is anticipation ferrothorn lol?
what the fuck is anticipation ferrothorn lol?
This is a set that has worked for me many times because most people dont expect a stall Heatran.
Heatran Air Balloon
Abillity: Flash Fire
Nature: Bold
Ev's: 252 Spdef/ 248 Def/ 8 SpAtk
Protect
Toxic
Substitute
Magma Storm
Now like I said above, nobody expects the Heatran stall. But that does not mean that it does not work. I usually start off with Protect to see what my foe will do. Next I use Toxic to get the Gradual damage buildup going. Then obviously Protect is next again. Then I go for Substitute to get behind a wall. Then after the 3rd Protect, I go for Magma Storm. I chose this move because it does damage over time, AND traps the foe. If your opponent is still alive after all of that, just repeat Protect and Magma Storm. And this is the ultimate stall Heatran.
Heatran Air Balloon
Abillity: Flash Fire
Nature: Bold
Ev's: 252 Spdef/ 248 Def/ 8 SpAtk
Protect
Toxic
Substitute
Magma Storm
Now like I said above, nobody expects the Heatran stall. But that does not mean that it does not work. I usually start off with Protect to see what my foe will do. Next I use Toxic to get the Gradual damage buildup going. Then obviously Protect is next again. Then I go for Substitute to get behind a wall. Then after the 3rd Protect, I go for Magma Storm. I chose this move because it does damage over time, AND traps the foe. If your opponent is still alive after all of that, just repeat Protect and Magma Storm. And this is the ultimate stall Heatran.
This was not my creation or idea, but I think Explosion Landorus-T is a very creative and underrated set. Giving credit to KratosMana as this was showcased in his RMT here.
Landorus-Theiran (
)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 124 Atk / 152 Def / 232 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Moveset: Earthquake / Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Explosion
Landorus lures in common defensive Pokemon such as Rotom-W and nukes them with a Normal Gem boosted Explosion. This is exceptionally helpful when paired with sweepers such as Mega Pinsir that appreciate Rotom-W being severely weakened or KOed. Landorus-T is typically a Choice Scarf set or a defensive variant, and having Explosion is very unexpected. As stated in the RMT, Explosion often decides the outcome of a match by heavily denting a specific Pokemon.
Quoting this from his description of the set, "The speed EVs are there to outspeed jolly mega heracross and speedcreep against some stallbreaking Mew sets, so it can explode before they Wisp. The defense EVs allows it to tank two Iron Heads from Life Orb Excadrill with Stealth Rocks up. It also allows it tank a flare blitz from Charizard X after a Dragon Dance. The rest of the EVs are put into Attack to maximize it's power".
Always a fan of complicated EV spreads :P
Explosion could also be used on a Choice Scarf set, but having the extra power of Normal Gem is very helpful.
Landorus-Theiran (
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 124 Atk / 152 Def / 232 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Moveset: Earthquake / Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Explosion
Landorus lures in common defensive Pokemon such as Rotom-W and nukes them with a Normal Gem boosted Explosion. This is exceptionally helpful when paired with sweepers such as Mega Pinsir that appreciate Rotom-W being severely weakened or KOed. Landorus-T is typically a Choice Scarf set or a defensive variant, and having Explosion is very unexpected. As stated in the RMT, Explosion often decides the outcome of a match by heavily denting a specific Pokemon.
Quoting this from his description of the set, "The speed EVs are there to outspeed jolly mega heracross and speedcreep against some stallbreaking Mew sets, so it can explode before they Wisp. The defense EVs allows it to tank two Iron Heads from Life Orb Excadrill with Stealth Rocks up. It also allows it tank a flare blitz from Charizard X after a Dragon Dance. The rest of the EVs are put into Attack to maximize it's power".
Always a fan of complicated EV spreads :P
Explosion could also be used on a Choice Scarf set, but having the extra power of Normal Gem is very helpful.
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