Doubles Thundurus

Metal Sonic

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Haruno Lolk implemented these except for the:
Set 1:
  • You mention 32ev's to beat base 70's but put 20evs in the set. Also unsure if 32ev's for that benchmark is even useful for thund-i since you're more likely than not attacking loom or sharp in the first place.
  • The ev spread is weird as hell since mega tytar rock slide isn't exactly relevant or a good benchmark for thund-i. Not to mention it doesn't explain why you put such weird ev's on SpA and SpD. I'd either mention why or just find a better spread.
Moves and Set Details:
  • I'm really unsure on even putting hp ice on thund-i in the first place especially for the reasons you listed since thanks to your minimum speed, you're essentially guaranteed to lose to them. Garchomp isn't exactly relevant in the current meta but meh. If you really want hp ice, you'd have to put max speed on thund-i since they're immune to your main form of speed control.

  • these comments contradict my original writeup, may I know how to implement these properly into the writeup?
 

Darkmalice

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Haruno Lolk implemented these except for the:
Set 1:
  • You mention 32ev's to beat base 70's but put 20evs in the set. Also unsure if 32ev's for that benchmark is even useful for thund-i since you're more likely than not attacking loom or sharp in the first place.
  • The ev spread is weird as hell since mega tytar rock slide isn't exactly relevant or a good benchmark for thund-i. Not to mention it doesn't explain why you put such weird ev's on SpA and SpD. I'd either mention why or just find a better spread.
Moves and Set Details:
  • I'm really unsure on even putting hp ice on thund-i in the first place especially for the reasons you listed since thanks to your minimum speed, you're essentially guaranteed to lose to them. Garchomp isn't exactly relevant in the current meta but meh. If you really want hp ice, you'd have to put max speed on thund-i since they're immune to your main form of speed control.

  • these comments contradict my original writeup, may I know how to implement these properly into the writeup?
20 Spe EVs only is needed to beat Jolly base 70s. 32 Spe is needed to outspeed Mega Ttar.

20 Spe is definitely useful in case you do want to attack

I actually don't think 32 is important, but err the loss in SpA is negligible. Just add in set comments that it outspeeds Mega Ttar too in addition to the base 70s. Small change :)

implement harunos and 3/3 send this to gp
Still surprised that this hasn't got it's 3rd QC check since i've been gone

QC 3/3
 

Darkmalice

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Lol

I think what happened is that Metal Sonic changed the EVs on the set to lower the Speed to 20 Spe (no longer outspeeds Mega Ttar) and misadded the total.

I'm not opposed to the drop to 20 Spe. I support it, other QC members don't, so it's author's decision, and the other QC members said that back in the days when Mega Ttar was more common too. So I say stick with 20 Spe

Metal Sonic , can you
1) add those extra 4 EVs to SpA
2) change the below bolded line to reflect the new 20 Spe EV
3) also mention that the special defense investment enables you to never be ohkoed by life orb latios draco meteor. this should have been mentioned before

The given EV spread allows you to survive an Adamant Mega Tyranitar Rock Slide 100% of the time. 32 Spe EVs will move before maximum Speed Jolly base 70s such as Breloom, and Mega Tyranitar. Prankster helps make Thunder Wave a priority move to basically put a full stop to anything that relies on its Speed stat, and a priority Taunt to prevent Wide Guard too.
 

frenzyplant

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1/2 Metal Sonic :)

add remove (comments)

Overview
########

Thundurus is one of the most popular Electric-types Pokemon with the useful Electric-type STAB in Doubles. It functions as a great offensive Pokemon thanks to its base 125 Special Attack and base 111 Speed, (remove comma) along with its usable 79 / 70 / 80 defenses. Its access to Prankster along with a lot of support options, such as Thunder Wave, Taunt, Substitute, and Rain Dance, (comma) allows it to play an additional role in supporting its team. Its typing gives it useful immunities, (remove comma) but also weaknesses to common Ice- and Rock-type moves which are both common in the current metagame. Additionally, Electric-types are now immune to Thunder Wave, making paralysis more difficult to spread than before, and despite its fair 79 / 70 / 80 defenses, Thundurus is still frail and will not be able to take multiple strong neutral hits.

Bulky Thunder Wave
########
name: Bulky Thunder Wave
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 64 SpA / 72 SpD / 20 Spe
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Thundurus's relatively good bulk and access to Thunder Wave allow it is basically the big point of this set. With its higher bulk (than other Thundurus sets) it can last longer, giving it more time to support its teammates with ever-so-useful speed control. Thunderbolt is Thundurus's serves as the primary STAB move and is good for hitting things like hits Pokemon like Mega Charizard Y and Suicune hard. Hidden Power Ice serves as coverage and deals heavy damage to common Ground-types such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. Taunt is an option to prevents field effects like Trick Room from going up and to stops status moves like Will-O-Wisp and Spore from being used.

Set Details
========
The given EV spread allows you Thundurus to survive one Rock Slide from an Adamant Mega Tyranitar or one Draco Meteor from Rock Slide, or a Life Orb Latios's Draco Meteor 100% of the time. 20 Speed EVs will let Thundurus move before positive-natured, maximum Speed Jolly base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Breloom, but 32 Speed EVs can be used to outspeed Mega Tyranitar. Prankster helps makes Thunder Wave and Taunt a priority moves, letting Thundurus to basically put a full stop to anything that relies on its Speed stat, and a priority Taunt to and prevent Wide Guard and other status moves, respectively too.

Usage Tips
========

Spamming Thunder Wave against on faster opponents is the best way to use this set. As long as they are not an Electric-typed, their Speed advantage will be lost and they will be open to attacks. The bulky Thundurus set is used to primarily used for support teams, and with the given EVs it's not going to be doing a lot of damage to the other team. More often than not, Thundurus is going to be a pain because of Thunder Wave and Taunt spam rather than its actually doing a lot of damage output.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that appreciate the speed control that Thundurus provides make good teammates. These are commonly powerhouses that lack a bit of Speed, including but not limited to Kyurem-B, and Landorus-T, Tyranitar, Charizard, (comma) and Bisharp. Steel-types, (remove comma) such as Bisharp and Mega Scizor, (remove comma) make good partners because as they have great type synergy with Thundurus, taking the Ice- (hyphen) and Rock-type attacks that Thundurus hates. They also enjoy paralysis support on their opponents in order to strike first. Fighting-types also make good partners, (comma) as their STAB attacks keep the Ice- and Rock-types that threaten Thundurus away; (comma to semicolon) Terrakion and Keldeo love it when the likes of Latios and Latias are crippled with Thunder Wave. Some Fighting-types also have utility values: Hitmontop has Intimidate to cripple foes as well as Feint to block nullify Quick Guard and users to make way for Thundurus's Thunder Waves and Intimidate to cripple opponents, whereas Breloom has the ability to destroy Water-types and Ground-types. Ground-types such as Landorus-T, Mega Garchomp, and Excadrill enjoy Thundurus as a teammate to remove opposing Landorus-T, giving them free reign to control the game. Finally, Mamoswine makes for an excellent partner for Thundurus, as Mamoswine takes the Ice- and Rock-type attacks for Thundurus while Thundurus can take the Grass- and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Mamoswine. Additionally, Mamoswine can feel free to freely spam Earthquake with Thundurus as a partner, while Thundurus can paralyze the faster opponents that threaten Mamoswine.

Special Attacker
##############
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Protect / Nasty Plot / Substitute
move 4: Thunder Wave
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

As above, Thunderbolt serves as Thundurus's the primary STAB move for the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Suicune, while Hidden Power Ice serves as potent coverage for the common Garchomp and Landorus-T. Protect is generally a good move in Doubles to scout for an opponent's attack, stall out field effects, and to allow a teammate to strike the opponent. Alternatively, Substitute is good for Thundurus to avoid status effects, ease prediction, (comma) and have to give Thundurus some breathing room, letting it to KO its faster checks. It is useful for serving as a pseudosemi-Protect and guarding Thundurus from Sleep Powders and Spores that may come its way. (move sentences to *) Nasty Plot, however, allows is a great move for Thundurus to set up and become a terrifying sweeper. (*) Thunder Wave is always great for speed control to support Thundurus's its teammates with ever-so-useful speed control. Focus Blast can also be used as a coverage option, hitting dealing tons of damage to Mamoswine, Mega Kangaskhan, Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Excadrill really hard, all of which are threats to it.

Set Details
========

The given EV investment maximizes Speed and power, allowing for Thundurus to wreck opponents. The Life Orb boost helps secure a lot of important OHKOs, most notably against Garchomp, Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, and Landorus-T. However, the combination combined effect of recoil from Life Orb and recoil from Substitute will wear down Thundurus very fast, so Expert Belt is a good alternative. If you opt to run Substitute, Leftovers is also an option, (comma) as the constant healing it provides will allows Thundurus you to generate more Substitutes. However, without Life Orb, Thundurus misses out on a lot of KOs, particularly against Mega Charizard Y.

Usage Tips
========

This The Offensive Life Orb set is fast, powerful, and and powerful but still offers the utility of that the bulky Thundurus offers. Thundurus can make good use of the offensive pressure that Life Orb brings, (remove comma) thanks to its sky-high Special Attack and Speed. Notably, this set allows an can OHKO on Mega Charizard Y, which the bulky Thundurus set cannot do. For the offensive set, dealing damage becomes just as destructive as Thunder Wave when Thundurus faces slower opponents. As such, the main strategy is to attack slower opponents directly, while crippling faster ones with Thunder Wave. If you run Substitute, play smart and only do so when you are confident that the opponent will not attack Thundurus. This allows Thundurus to have a buffer against faster attacks and status effects.

Team Options
========

As with the previous set, Pokemon that appreciate the speed control that Thundurus provides make good teammates, including Kyurem-B, Landorus-I or Landorus-T, Tyranitar, Charizard, (comma) and Bisharp. Mamoswine is still Thundurus's best friend, as they have fantastic defensive and offensive type synergy together. The Steel- and Fighting-types as mentioned above, including also make good partners for the same reasons, paralysis support and good defensive type synergy. These include Bisharp, Mega Scizor, Mega Mawile, Terrakion, Keldeo, Hitmontop, (comma) and Breloom, appreciate Thundurus's paralysis support and have good defensive synergy with it. Ground-types enjoy Thundurus's ability to remove opposing Landorus-T, so Landorus-T, Mega Garchomp, and Excadrill enjoy Thundurus on their team.

However, due to the different nuances of this set from the previous one, there are other more new compatible teammates as well. Offensive Thundurus with Thunder can be run on a rain team, as it helps to defeat the Water-types and Grass-types that pester the Water-oriented rain teams. Furthermore, the potential to 2HKO Rotom-W, rain's biggest enemy, makes Thundurus a great asset. Helping Hand users, such as Togekiss, Jirachi, and Politoed make good teammates to allow Thundurus to deal massive damage onto an opponent. Jirachi, as a Steel-type, (comma) also makes a good Follow Me Partner, (comma) as it beats Rock- and Ice-types while Thundurus can defeat Ground-types and Mega Charizard Y. Fake Out teammates, such as Scrafty, can help Thundurus set up easy Substitutes by flinching a threatening opponent.

Other Options
########

Rain Dance is a good move for a rain team but forces Thundurus to foregoes an important moveslot on the set. Hidden Power Flying is an interesting option for a neutral STAB to damage opponents with, and as well as a great Mega Venusaur killer, but it otherwise has poor super effective coverage. Note that you will want to use an IV spread of 31 / 1 / 31 / 30 / 30 / 30 when using Hidden Power Flying as it has a low Attack IV to minimize potential confusion damage. Protect is a great move in Doubles, and works especially well on Thundurus because it is unexpected on the main set.

A Nasty Plot set with + (plus) Substitute is a great set as it grants Thundurus immediate power and permits it to easily OHKO or 2HKO the whole of the metagame, while having insurance against faster teams or Trick Room teams. However, it takes a lot of skill to set up in this the fast-paced Doubles metagame and is not recommended for newer players. Choice items such as Choice Specs or Choice Scarf can be used, but Thundurus-T plays a more efficient role as a Choice user. Sky Drop is an interesting move in Doubles that allows for very surprising tactics, but you the user must be aware of what he is you are trying to accomplish. A physical Defiant set is usable in the metagame thanks to Thundurus's decent Attack stat and the ubiquity of Intimidate users, with a recommended moveset being Wild Charge / Knock Off / Superpower / Protect.

Checks & Counters
########
**Offensive Typing Advantage**: (remove line breaks, colon) Ground-types in general are immune to Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt, and most usually have the bulk to survive a Hidden Power Ice, (remove comma) and carry while carrying Stone Edge, which that can deal major damage to Thundurus. Mega Venusaur shrugs off any hit and can deal severe damage with Sludge Bomb. Tyranitar, With its the Special Defense boost from sand in Sandstorm, Tyranitar is able to handle Thundurus.

**Speed**: (remove line breaks, colon) Some dangerous and notable enemies that are unaffected by Thunder Wave include Garchomp, Landorus-I, (comma) and Choice Scarf Rotom-W, (comma) which can deal major damage onto Thundurus. Other Electric-types, (comma) such as Mega Manectric and Snarl Raikou, (comma) beat Thundurus easily, as Hidden Power Ice cannot deal much damage onto them. Other priority, such as Fake Out, Extreme Speed, (comma) and Weavile's Ice Shard, (comma) can hurt Thundurus quite a bit.

**Utility**: (remove line break) Quick Guard is annoying as it prevents Thundurus from using priority Thunder Wave, but they all common users of the move with the exception of Terrakion can be easily defeated, with the exception of Terrakion. Oblivious and Aroma Veil Pokemon ignore Taunt and can set up Trick Room, turning Thunder Wave's Speed drop into their a benefit.
 

GatoDelFuego

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Metal Sonic

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Overview
########

Thundurus is one of the most popular Electric-types in Doubles. It functions as a great offensive Pokemon thanks to its base 125 Special Attack and base 111 Speed along with its usable 79 / 70 / 80 defenses. Its access to Prankster along with a lot of support options, such as Thunder Wave, Taunt, Substitute, and Rain Dance, allows it to play an additional role in supporting its team. Its typing gives it useful immunities but also weaknesses to common Ice- and Rock-type moves. Additionally, Electric-types are now immune to Thunder Wave, making paralysis more difficult to spread than before, and despite its fair defenses, Thundurus is still frail and will not be able to take multiple strong neutral hits.

Bulky Thunder Wave
########
name: Bulky Thunder Wave
move 1: Thunder Wave
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Taunt
ability: Prankster
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 64 SpA / 72 SpD / 20 Spe
nature: Calm

Moves
========

Thundurus's relatively good bulk and access to Thunder Wave allow it to support its teammates with speed control. Thunderbolt is Thundurus's STAB move and hits Pokemon like Mega Charizard Y and Suicune hard. Hidden Power Ice serves as coverage and deals heavy damage to common Ground-types such as Garchomp and Landorus-T. Taunt prevents field effects like Trick Room from going up and stops status moves like Will-O-Wisp and Spore from being used.

Set Details
========
The given EV spread allows Thundurus to survive one Rock Slide from Adamant Mega Tyranitar, (RC) or one Draco Meteor from nature? Life Orb Latios. 20 Speed EVs let Thundurus move before positive-natured, maximum Speed base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Breloom, but 32 Speed EVs can be used to outspeed Mega Tyranitar. Prankster makes Thunder Wave and Taunt priority moves, letting Thundurus stop anything that relies on its Speed stat, (RC) and prevent Wide Guard and other status moves, respectively.

Usage Tips
========

Spamming Thunder Wave against faster opponents is the best way to use this set. As long as they are not Electric-types, their Speed advantage will be lost and they will be open to attacks. The bulky Thundurus set is primarily used for support, and with the given EVs it's not going to be doing a lot of damage. More often than not, Thundurus is going to be a pain because of Thunder Wave and Taunt spam rather than its damage output.

Team Options
========

Pokemon that appreciate the speed control that Thundurus provides make good teammates. These are commonly powerhouses that lack a bit of Speed, including Kyurem-B, Landorus-T, Tyranitar, Charizard, and Bisharp. Steel-types such as Bisharp and Mega Scizor make good partners because they have great type synergy with Thundurus, taking the Ice- and Rock-type attacks that Thundurus hates. They also enjoy paralysis support in order to strike first. Fighting-types also make good partners, as their STAB attacks keep the Ice- and Rock-types that threaten Thundurus away; Terrakion and Keldeo love it when the likes of Latios and Latias are crippled with Thunder Wave. Some Fighting-types also have utility value; (SC) Hitmontop has Intimidate to cripple foes as well as Feint to nullify Quick Guard and make way for Thundurus's Thunder Waves, whereas Breloom has the ability to destroy Water- and Ground-types. Ground-types such as Landorus-T, Mega Garchomp, and Excadrill enjoy Thundurus as a teammate to remove opposing Landorus-T, giving them free reign to control the game. Finally, Mamoswine makes an excellent partner for Thundurus, as Mamoswine takes the Ice- and Rock-type attacks for Thundurus while Thundurus can take the Grass- and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Mamoswine. Additionally, Mamoswine can freely spam Earthquake with Thundurus as a partner, while Thundurus can paralyze the faster opponents that threaten Mamoswine.

Special Attacker
########
name: Special Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Protect / Nasty Plot / Substitute
move 4: Thunder Wave
ability: Prankster
item: Life Orb
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Thunderbolt serves as Thundurus's STAB move for the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Suicune, while Hidden Power Ice serves as potent coverage for the common Garchomp and Landorus-T. Protect is generally a good move in Doubles to scout for an opponent's attack, stall out field effects, and allow a teammate to strike the opponent. Nasty Plot, however, allows Thundurus to set up and become a terrifying sweeper. Alternatively, Substitute is good for Thundurus to avoid status effects, ease prediction, and have some breathing room, letting it KO its faster checks. It is useful for serving as a pseudo-Protect and guarding Thundurus from Sleep Powders and Spores that may might come its way. Thunder Wave is always great for speed control to support Thundurus's teammates. Focus Blast can also be used as a coverage option, dealing tons of damage to Mamoswine, Mega Kangaskhan, Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Excadrill, all of which are threats to it.

Set Details
========

The given EV investment maximizes Speed and power, allowing Thundurus to wreck opponents. The Life Orb boost helps secure a lot of important OHKOs, most notably against Garchomp, Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, and Landorus-T. However, the combination of recoil from Life Orb and recoil from Substitute will wear down Thundurus very fast, so Expert Belt is a good alternative. If you opt to run Substitute, Leftovers is also an option, as the constant healing it provides allows Thundurus to generate more Substitutes. However, without Life Orb, Thundurus misses out on a lot of KOs, particularly against Mega Charizard Y.

Usage Tips
========

This set is fast and powerful but still offers the utility of bulky Thundurus. Thundurus can make good use of the offensive pressure that Life Orb brings thanks to its sky-high Special Attack and Speed. Notably, this set can OHKO Mega Charizard Y, which the bulky Thundurus set cannot do. For the offensive set, dealing damage becomes just as destructive as Thunder Wave when Thundurus faces slower opponents. As such, the main strategy is to attack slower opponents directly, while crippling faster ones with Thunder Wave. If you run Substitute, play smart and only do so use the move when you are confident that the opponent will not attack Thundurus. This allows Thundurus to have a buffer against faster attacks and status effects.

Team Options
========

As with the previous set, Pokemon that appreciate the speed control that Thundurus provides make good teammates, including Kyurem-B, Landorus-I or Landorus-T, Tyranitar, Charizard, and Bisharp. Mamoswine is still Thundurus's best friend, as they have fantastic defensive and offensive type synergy together. The Steel- and Fighting-types mentioned above, including Bisharp, Mega Scizor, Mega Mawile, Terrakion, Keldeo, Hitmontop, and Breloom, appreciate Thundurus's paralysis support and have good defensive synergy with it. Ground-types enjoy Thundurus's ability to remove opposing Landorus-T, so Landorus-T, Mega Garchomp, and Excadrill enjoy Thundurus on their team.

However, due to the nuances of this set, there are other compatible teammates as well. Offensive Thundurus with Thunder can be run on a rain team, as it helps to defeat the Water- and Grass-types that pester the Water-oriented rain teams. Furthermore, the potential to 2HKO Rotom-W, rain's biggest enemy, makes Thundurus a great asset. Helping Hand users, such as Togekiss, Jirachi, and Politoed, (AC) make good teammates to allow Thundurus to deal massive damage to an opponent. Jirachi, as a Steel-type, also makes a good Follow Me Partner, as it beats Rock- and Ice-types while Thundurus can defeat Ground-types and Mega Charizard Y. Fake Out teammates, such as Scrafty, can help Thundurus set up easy Substitutes by flinching a threatening opponent.

Other Options
########

Rain Dance is a good move for a rain team but forces Thundurus to forgo an important move. Hidden Power Flying is an interesting option for a neutral STAB move to damage opponents with, as well as a great way to hit Mega Venusaur killer, but it otherwise has poor super effective coverage. Note that you will want to use an IV spread of 31 / 1 / 31 / 30 / 30 / 30 when using Hidden Power Flying to minimize potential confusion damage. Protect is a great move in Doubles, and works especially well on Thundurus because it is unexpected on the main set.

A Nasty Plot + Substitute set grants Thundurus immediate power and permits it to easily OHKO or 2HKO the whole of the metagame, while having insurance against faster teams or Trick Room teams. However, it takes a lot of skill to set up in the fast-paced Doubles metagame and is not recommended for newer players. GET GUD SCRUBLORDS; XPERTS ONLY Choice items such as Choice Specs or Choice Scarf can be used, but Thundurus-T plays a more efficient role as a Choice user. Sky Drop is an interesting move in Doubles that allows for very surprising tactics, but you must be aware of what you are trying to accomplish. A physical Defiant set is usable thanks to Thundurus's decent Attack stat and the ubiquity of Intimidate users, with a recommended moveset being Wild Charge / Knock Off / Superpower / Protect.

Checks & Counters
########
**Offensive Typing Advantage**: Ground-types are immune to Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt, and most have the bulk to survive a Hidden Power Ice and carry Stone Edge, which can deal major damage to Thundurus. Mega Venusaur shrugs off any hit and can deal severe damage with Sludge Bomb. With the Special Defense boost from sand, Tyranitar is able to handle Thundurus.

**Speed**: Some dangerous and notable enemies that are unaffected by Thunder Wave include Garchomp, Landorus-I, and Choice Scarf Rotom-W, which can deal major damage to Thundurus. Other Electric-types, such as Mega Manectric and Snarl Raikou, beat Thundurus easily, as Hidden Power Ice cannot deal much damage to them. Other priority, such as Fake Out, Extreme Speed, and Weavile's Ice Shard, can hurt Thundurus quite a bit.

**Utility**: Quick Guard is annoying as it prevents Thundurus from using priority Thunder Wave, but all common users of the move with the exception of Terrakion can be easily defeated. Oblivious and Aroma Veil Pokemon ignore Taunt and can set up Trick Room, turning Thunder Wave's Speed drop into a benefit.

2/2
 
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