Ubers is now a tier; a new Metagame called Anything Goes is added; M-Ray is banned from Ubers

[haxiom]

So some actual thoughts now. As I recall, and others probably do as well, with bans in Ubers, there was often a point about creating a second OU. What stops AG from gaining a player base and then enough power creep until something needs to be banned from that? It seems odd or unlikely, but didn't it sort of just happen?

I of course, fully support this decision and am not challenging it, simply wondering about philosophy.

 

[Demoness]

So some actual thoughts now. As I recall, and others probably do as well, with bans in Ubers, there was often a point about creating a second OU. What stops AG from gaining a player base and then enough power creep until something needs to be banned from that? It seems odd or unlikely, but didn't it sort of just happen?

I of course, fully support this decision and am not challenging it, simply wondering about philosophy.

Because The whole point of it is to be an "anything goes" meta. There won't be anything resembling bans in it because then it isn't an meta that has no restriction on what is used. It won't be hard to just say "no bans in AG for any reason".

Edit: NOVED It's been said multiple times (and in there OP) that usage won't determine things moving from OU to Ubers

 

[.Sleepy Slowpoke]

Just replace Aizen with Mega Rayquaza and this pretty much sums it all up xD

http://mangapark.com/manga/bleach/s3/c178/3-6

This is more accurate.

Hide

p.16

p.17

p.18

Made by yours truly.

 

[Gloating]

It's going to be funny if AG ends up being the metagame with the most players. On a more serious note I'm kind of worried that even less people will play Ubers because of this.

 

[Farpafraf]

That's the definition of ragequit.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-187729672
BEST.TIER.EVER.

 

[.Sleepy Slowpoke]

So if something gets enough usage in Ubers will it be banned in OU now? There's a lot of OU pokemon that are used in Ubers quite a bit.

i don't think it works like that

 

[haxiom]

Because The whole point of it is to be an "anything goes" meta. There won't be anything resembling bans in it because then it isn't an meta that has no restriction on what is used. It won't be hard to just say "no bans in AG for any reason".

Well, the thing is that this is basically the new Ubers. When Ubers was created, I doubt the point was to ban stuff from it. You see, the mentality you apply to AG is the same mentality which used to be applied to Ubers, yet here we are now.

 

[Demoness]

Well, the thing is that this is basically the new Ubers. When Ubers was created, I doubt the point was to ban stuff from it. You see, the mentality you apply to AG is the same mentality which used to be applied to Ubers, yet here we are now.

I thought that was the whole point of creating AG? To make a tier which adhered to the old Ubers philosophy that it is a place where you can use pretty much everything. I don't see the problem that you are trying to point out actually happening unless something utterly ridiculous does get introduced that somehow forces it, but I can't even think of what that would be besides a literal auto-win method.

 

[2MN]

Well, the thing is that this is basically the new Ubers. When Ubers was created, I doubt the point was to ban stuff from it. You see, the mentality you apply to AG is the same mentality which used to be applied to Ubers, yet here we are now.

power creep lasting over six generations' worth of pokemon made ubers something different from its original concept, note. it might end up looking like ubers is right now many, many years after this, but until then, it's a good idea to assume the name is a very literal interpretation of the rules. the only real change I'm expecting between now and the next generation for it is maybe species clause, and that's just because I think shit like six dittos vs. six dittos is going to inevitably become a very weird problem

 

[Laurel]

I'm failing to comprehend any fears about the clear undemocratic decision in question. While Smogon has usually been an elitist organization which gives power to the minority 1% of users (it should they are the most capable of making important decisions about tiering). This was a decision made by our leader and overlord President Snow, I mean Chaos, based on only the fact that Mega Ray has base 800 BST.

I forgot what I was talking about.

Ok while the decision goes against everything Smogon stands for (an elitist oligarchy) oh wait this was a decision made by one person and not five...

Mega Rayquaza is way too strong rofl look at those stats. Chaos made this decision because there are literally 0 repurcussions. By defining Ubers as a tier he also fixed half of future suspect discussions.

Also who cares what happens w AG it will never be in any official tour.

All hail King Chaos. ADV Tauros is our only g-d.

 

[haxiom]

I thought that was the whole point of creating AG? To make a tier which adhered to the old Ubers philosophy that it is a place where you can use pretty much everything. I don't see the problem that you are trying to point out actually happening unless something utterly ridiculous does get introduced that somehow forces it, but I can't even think of what that would be besides a literal auto-win method.

The problem I'm pointing out, or moreso the question I'm raising is, how do we prevent the same Ubers cycle from repeating? You bring back the old Ubers philosophy, you add power creed, you create a new tier and bring back the old Ubers philosophy, rinse, recycle, repeat.

power creep lasting over six generations' worth of pokemon made ubers something different from its original concept, note. it might end up looking like ubers is right now many, many years after this, but until then, it's a good idea to assume the name is a very literal interpretation of the rules. the only real change I'm expecting between now and the next generation for it is maybe species clause, and that's just because I think shit like six dittos vs. six dittos is going to inevitably become a very weird problem

I understand it will take time, and I agree that it is a great temporary solution. However, even what you were saying at the end of this, with the species clause, already foreshadows the potency AG has to become a tier given sufficient time and power creep.

I'm repeating myself; probably shouldn't keep responding but feel free to PM me I guess.

 

[MrAldo]

Ah, today is a good day.

 

[heritage]

Can we at least put Species Clause in here so we don't make this tier completely un-competitive and just stupid? Not a problem if we don't, I simply wont play it, but there's really no point in playing AG unless you're a Rayquaza fanboy.

 

[Farpafraf]

Can we at least put Species Clause in here so we don't make this tier completely un-competitive and just stupid? Not a problem if we don't, I simply wont play it, but there's really no point in playing AG unless you're a Rayquaza fanboy.

"Anything goes" makes M_rayquaza look like a perfectly balanced 'mon, trust me.

 

[2MN]

The problem I'm pointing out, or moreso the question I'm raising is, how do we prevent the same Ubers cycle from repeating? You bring back the old Ubers philosophy, you add power creed, you create a new tier and bring back the old Ubers philosophy, rinse, recycle, repeat.

a question that should be answered before this: can you even have a permanent solution at all, in a game where the number of options given to you will always get higher with each generation, by virtue of how pokemon works? after all, AG is only a bandaid in a way some might consider adding a tier between NU and UU to be a bandaid last generation. don't forget, there's now an unofficial tier beneath NU that people actually want to be official, because there's too many pokemon in NU that are considerably outclassed by the best in that tier.

I'd consider adding new metas to be no more of a problem than any of the other janitor work tier/metagame leaders have to do when making fun metas to play in

 

[neooo]

Totally agree with this!

252+ Atk Choice Band Swinub Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 240-288 (68.3 - 82%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[RandomBro]

a species clause needs to be implemented at the very least to make it similar to the actual game.

 

[EmblemLord]

Can we at least put Species Clause in here so we don't make this tier completely un-competitive and just stupid? Not a problem if we don't, I simply wont play it, but there's really no point in playing AG unless you're a Rayquaza fanboy.

You can only mega evolve once, so there's no reason to run more than one really. I do agree that a Species Clause should be implemented. Almost everybody is running multiple Klefkis, and it's really not fun to watch or play.

 

[2MN]

I still genuinely have no idea how 6 dittos vs. 6 dittos ends up. I'm assuming they all just struggle themselves to death until one side gets a crit and wins out, or something?

 

[JPMD64]

Can we at least put Species Clause in here so we don't make this tier completely un-competitive and just stupid? Not a problem if we don't, I simply wont play it, but there's really no point in playing AG unless you're a Rayquaza fanboy.

I for one was actually hoping for something like this
Mainly, i always wanted to try out Moody, specially after Glalie-M got revealed
I don't know about you guys, this tier feels like it'll allow for much more to be added to competitive battling, having to deal against OHKO moves in a competitive scenario actually seems like a interesting concept to me as it might give life to not only possibilities for using these moves but also for dealing with them.

if anything, i agree with your idea of adding Species Clause, and maybe some other minor clauses such as Sleep clause

 

[NightSoul]

I still genuinely have no idea how 6 dittos vs. 6 dittos ends up. I'm assuming they all just struggle themselves to death until one side gets a crit and wins out, or something?

You said it yourself, they just use Struggle until they faint.
Anyways, as many others have said before, a species clause should be on Anything Goes. 6 Klefki vs. 6 Klefki. 6 Sableye vs. 6 Sableye. It should be in.

 

[Dragrath]

I really never post here but this is monumental enough to break that silence So Ubers is a Teir and Mega Ray is banned...
Wow... I never expected this however I have always felt Ubers becoming a tier needed to happen. I don't think anyone expected something as broken as Mega Rayquaza though... (why does this exist?) This also gives hope for less effective Ubers that some day there might be an underused tier for them In order to give every Pokemon a place.
At least Rayquaza gets to keep Dragon Ascent

I for one was actually hoping for something like this
Mainly, i always wanted to try out Moody, specially after Glalie-M got revealed
I don't know about you guys, this tier feels like it'll allow for much more to be added to competitive battling, having to deal against OHKO moves in a competitive scenario actually seems like a interesting concept to me as it might give life to not only possibilities for using these moves but also for dealing with them.

if anything, i agree with your idea of adding Species Clause, and maybe some other minor clauses such as Sleep clause

Considering that in game species clause is standard it would make sense but I guess that will be up to the decision of who ever is in charge of anything goes If they do that I'll want to play at least once (not while everything is murderous keys and swag play)

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Is swagkey even good from a probability view point?

 

[LittleTLK]

Yeah, I'd like to see a species clause in AG, too. Idk, I just think it'd be more fun to play if you couldn't just slap 5 smeargle + m-rayquaza, or 6 klefki.

@above:

Probability-wise, if the opponent is paralyzed, you have a slight edge of winning out of sheer luck.

 

[BlueLobster]

I really like the idea of AG, but I think there should be a species clause. The meta will be interesting, Mega Ray, support mons like Swagger minimize Drifblim, counter srats to the support mons and Ditto does sound fun. I may take a break from Balanced Hackmons laddering to try this.

I may try a BP chain, but I'm crap at making those, so maybe not.