I'm not saying Banded Regice is a good idea. I'm saying it might be used and to lose one of your bulky attackers to that could prove problematic.
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Stat Switch [Azumarill+Regice Banned]
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
Whoops, I hadn't realised that his moveset is almost as small as Tynamo's.
Mega camerupt now has a base 145 speed and 120 attack. EQ, flame charge, stone edge, and iron head should wreck
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Rock Slide over Stone Edge. It has a bit more base power due to Sheer Force (104 versus 100), more PP, and 90% accuracy. Too bad it doesn't get flare blitz.
TOTALLY forgot about sheer force. Thanks man that's even better.
120 base atk without boosts won't cut it here. Not to mention its only physical moves SF boosted are pitifully weak and un-STAB.
Wow Avalugg.. 117/184 Attack/Speed, but 95/28/46 defenses. Also Mega Blaziken gets 160/160/160 Defenses but keeps 130 SpA :D
Tbh this prob one of the stupidest things I ever seen. Just because you use a gimmicky Regice set doesn't mean you deny the proper calcs for the most common and viable set.
Whoa, Mega Blaziken looks really great here given the chance.
160/80/160/130/160/100
o:
Too bad...
EDIT: Haven't read Pichu's post xDD
160/80/160/130/160/100
o:
Too bad...
EDIT: Haven't read Pichu's post xDD
I've been playing Stat Switch, and I have enormous doubts about "common" and even greater doubts about "viable".
More generally, Regirock and Regice really aren't as hard hitting as they look. Regirock's best damage output is about equivalent, before IVs and EVs are counted, to a STAB 90 BP move off a Pokemon of about 130 Special Attack -so Breloom using Energy Ball, say. After IVs and EVs it's more like a Pokemon with 118 Special Attack -and there's plenty of Pokemon with that much. In fact, Regirock is essentially outclassed by Carbink in every area, with the Speed tiers working out so that only, out of Stat Switch-OU-legal Pokemon the Regis themselves, Steelix (Almost certainly being used as a Mega, if at all), Aggron (Almost certainly being used as a Mega), Mega Slowbro, Mega Garchomp, Bastiodon, Mega Ampharos, Mega Banette, Mega Tyranitar, Snorlax, and then tied with Carbink are Diancie (Bad Carbink in all regards), Doublade, Probopass, Registeel, and Mega Swampert are all the Pokemon that out-speed Carbink or speed-tie it while being outsped by Regirock.
Note that a lot of these Pokemon are Megas, and some of the non-Megas aren't even viable. There's really no reason to use Regirock when Carbink is almost always going to hit harder, outrun the same stuff, and tank hits better. Carbink can even run Scarf if it wants (That makes no sense on Regirock) and will still have comparable damage output to Life Orb Regirock while outspeeding it and things it doesn't outspeed! And it has Sturdy! And it's less predictable! (Physical Carbink is plausible, and to a lesser extent support Carbink. Regirock is a straight attacker who maybe sets Stealth Rock)
Regice is less bad off -as far as I'm aware there's no Carbink to its Regirock to horribly invalidate it- but Pokemon with lower offenses still do similar or better damage. Keldeo's Close Combat is about equivalent to Regice's Ice Punch, Keldeo is still respectably fast, it gets Aqua Jet, it has better bulk (More HP with 90 in its defenses, so even on Regice's stronger stat Keldeo is about equivalent), it has a more useful ability (Justified is now relevant!) and can even properly set up! (Swords Dance) Any STAB Earthquaker with 135~ Attack does similar damage to Regice's Ice Punch after investment, not even getting into all the STAB Close Combats, STAB Flare Blitzes, and so on that lower that Attack requirement still further to equal Regice.
Regice and Regirock (Actually, not really Regirock because Carbink) definitely have uses, but they are also deeply flawed, and not nearly as impressive as they look on paper. In fact, playing Stat Switch has provided substantial illumination for me as to why the Regis are so goddamn awful in Standard -because their movepool is just not very good at much of anything. (And yeah in Stat Switch they're using the opposite attacking stat for which their movepool is particularly bad, but they just lack good tools in general)
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I have too, I've been #1 with a 16-0 streak and I honestly don't understand how you can question LO Regice when without it, you miss out on very important KOs. And you obviously haven't been playing that often because everyone and their mother is running LO Regice. Sure you can run AV, and yeah
2/10 times it might work for you on surprise factor alone but that is called a gimmick, not a common set.
I understand the Carbink and Regirock comparison because they have similar roles but this comparison literally makes no sense. The two mons do different things. That's like me saying why run Salamence when Lucario exists.Ghoul King said:
And I'm not saying Regirock is ban worthy, only Regice.
Anyways I'm done replying to you because I can't take you seriously anymore.
So Kingler is a intesting case, playing bit like Lando-I, but relying on water/ice coverage and agility.
Has nice bulk and hits like a truck thanks to that sheer force.
Only fall back of it is the lack of good third coverage move limiting on either HP or ancient power (or mudbomb lel) tho just plain out toxic is starting to seem convincing option for the final slot.
Has nice bulk and hits like a truck thanks to that sheer force.
Only fall back of it is the lack of good third coverage move limiting on either HP or ancient power (or mudbomb lel) tho just plain out toxic is starting to seem convincing option for the final slot.
Is there a Pokemon in the Stat Switch Metagame who is still an EXCELLENT Taunt user here, other than Zoroark?
Mega Steelix/regular Steelix outspeeds basically everything and has other utility, and more popularily Aggron/Mega Aggron is the same.
Mega Tyranitar is 164 Speed and also gets Taunt.
And most of the Prankster Taunters are still quite good. Whimsicott tanks Speed for Defense, which is basically a straight plus given it has Prankster.
There's probably other less obvious ones.
Mega Tyranitar is 164 Speed and also gets Taunt.
And most of the Prankster Taunters are still quite good. Whimsicott tanks Speed for Defense, which is basically a straight plus given it has Prankster.
There's probably other less obvious ones.
Anybody else try accupressure dodrio? Its pretty gimmicky (which I love), but if the other team cant counter it, its pretty unstoppable.
You know ill add my two cents to regice issue:
It's overcentralizing as fuck I dont think I've seen a single team without it.
It's overcentralizing as fuck I dont think I've seen a single team without it.
Medicham: perfect Shuckle counter.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-188693093
I think he rage quit at Genesect because it's Genesect, but I'm honestly not sure what happened there. Regardless: Shuckle neutered.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/statswitch-188693093
I think he rage quit at Genesect because it's Genesect, but I'm honestly not sure what happened there. Regardless: Shuckle neutered.
Regice's value is in its insane speed and great coverage. With as high of a Speed stat as it has, it actually has spare EVs if you run Jolly. 96 Speed Jolly outruns 252 Speed Jolly Aggron, as well as 252 Speed neutral nature Regis (which are in fact slower than 252 Jolly Aggron). And since Regice can't outspeed Mega Aggron no matter what it does, there's not much point in using any more speed than that unless someone decides to try to speed creep it.
I don't know that Regice needs to be banned, since it takes quite a bit of work to get it on the field and there are a fair number of things that can tank it or simply KO it with priority. Life Orb Lucario beats non-Adamant Regice 1v1, living an EQ and OHKOing back with Drain Punch. If Regice is forced to 2HKO for any reason, the two hits of Life Orb recoil allow Breloom to revenge kill. You could run Life Orb on Breloom for some weird reason, and that would let it revenge kill any time. Life Orb Scizor or Mega Scizor counter it, with Scizor being more reliable than Mega Scizor. Life Orb Gallade counters it, although Gallade would usually prefer to run Leftovers. Regice can't switch in on Gallade, either, especially not if Gallade is running Psychic instead of the standard Psyshock. As stated above, physically-defensive Genesect is a hard counter if rocks aren't up and a check if they are.
I have. There are several other threats that are as scary as Regice in different ways. Shedinja is a pain with its 90 base HP, forcing switches and setting up Substitutes and Swords Dances/Agilities as it does so before Baton Passing them off. Bulk Up Talonflame is an absolute pain in the neck that is difficult to counter and even more difficult to stop once it gets set up.
Certainly Regice is a very popular Pokémon for offensive teams, but that sort of thing occurs in standard tiers like OU as well. Is it really so wrong that Regice is seen on almost every offensive team? Besides, the things that put a stop to Regice counter other things as well, so it is not like your team is particularly less viable by running Vacuum Wave Breloom or Vacuum Wave Gallade to stop Regice, and Scarfed Golurk hits other things than Regice particularly hard as well, including Lucario, Latias, Gallade, Carbink, Chansey, Garchomp, Regirock, and Mega Absol. Scarfed Carbink is admittedly specifically built to counter Regice, but it has proven useful at countering or revenge-killing multiple other threats as well, as well as occasionally functioning as a late-game cleaner.
I'd say Hydreigon is pretty solid.
Calling for a Regice banning. I agree with what everyone else is saying, it's so insanely strong and overcentralizing. People are just pulling "checks" out from anywhere they can and it's seriously making the tier revolve around "find Vacuum Wave to check it, and hope it's weak enough to be KOed". 2HKOing the entire metagame, having reasonable bulk, and outspeeding everything, not to mention flawless coverage, is what makes Regice banworthy imo. Pinging Snaquaza
While using Trick Room for my Final Gambit Dugtrio I found a much stronger and more reliable gimmick (still needs lots of support though).
Belly Drum Zen Mode Darmanitan :D
Belly Drum Zen Mode Darmanitan :D
While I completely agree with you about Regirock, Regice is undeniably broken. It's broken for a number of reasons:
1. It's attack. With an attack that large, it's capable of doing huge amount of damage not only with it's STABs, but with it's coverage moves. This means almost no Pokemon can tank any of it's attacks, to the level where it's capable of OHKOing LUCARIO.
2. It's coverage. This is a Pokemon with a very nice physical movepool which includes almost anything it needs for coverage. Of the common pokemon I've seen, the only ones I've seen that aren't either hit SE (that actually have bulk) are Gallade and Gengar. Now, Gallade is quite capable of handling Regice, but that doesn't mean the Pokemon is not broken - it's one of the VERY few things that can.
3. Last, but not least, it's speed. When you put those first two factors together you get a very dangerous Pokemon. Something that makes Regice even more dangerous, though, is the fact that it is the fastest common Pokemon in the metagame. This means that it is capable of outrunning EVERYTHING the opponent has, and using it's excellent power and coverage to bring the opposing team down.
Now, don't get me wrong, Regice is not perfect. It has flaws including a SR weakness and a weakness to priority. The thing is, though, it's good sides outweigh these flaws so much that there is almost no reason to not use it. this makes Regice an extremely negative influence on the metagame, and a Pokemon that is obviously broken.
TL;DR:
Regice is broken cause of its speed, power, and coverage.