Pokémon Sceptile

[Josh Morales]

Physical sets may have potential when ice stops being such an important offensive move type.

This is true. Mega Mence's presence and consequently the omnipresence of Ice Shard users greatly hurts SD Mega Sceptile's ability to sweep.

Megascept is just too frail to set up,

The thing is frail, but not Absol-level frail.

and thundurous usually packs HP ice for opponents who are resistant/immune to electricity.

I never said you should set up on Thundurus, that's much too risky. I said that Thundurus' trademark prankster Twave being able to shut down any sweeper doesn't work on SD Mega Sceptile which is great, nor can Thundurus revenge kill SD Mega Sceptile with HP Ice since it'll be annihilated by Outrage.

Megascept would be better off going physical in a lower tier, of he is allowed there.

Mega Sceptile will be at least UU, but I highly doubt it'll stay UU for very long at all, if at all.

Let's just compare it to other dangerous setup sweepers in OU besides Mence because Mence is basically an Uber allowed in OU for the time being.

SD Mega Sceptile vs. DD Mega Charizard X

SD Mega Sceptile:
-SD Mega Sceptile forces many switches against frail offensive teams with its very high base Speed, and can find many opportunities to set up against frail offensive teams thusly.
-MScept is frail and so it's more susceptible to being revenge killed by Choice Scarfers, however, it can't be shut down by Prankster Twave from Thundurus
-Physically Defensive Mega Slowbro is not the unequivocally insurmountable wall for physical sweepers for MScept since a +2 Leaf Blade can pick off a weakned Mega Slowbro(but it does have to be weakened a good bit... fuck Mega Slowbro)
-Stealth Rock weakness, or rather the lack thereof as compared to ZardX

DD Mega Charizard X:
- 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Zard X Outrage at +1 is ~24% more powerful than a 252 Atk Mega Sceptile Outrage at +2 which makes ZardX significantly better at breaking through bulkier teams

-Speed-boosting setup move in theory makes it harder to be revenge killed, but this is only true at +2 since Adamant is used. Both sweepers after having setup outspeed the same Choice Scarfers and normal Pokemon.

-Although it doesn't scare out frail offensive Pokemon with its base Speed, ZardX's significantly better bulk allows it to set up against pokemon lacking a powerful SE move. Hence, each Pokemon can find opportunities to set up in different scenarios from the other as they are vastly different Pokemon outside of being starter MEvos and part Dragon-type.

Less type weaknesses and superior bulk implies ZardX achieves more switch-in opportunities; however, SR weakness and a 4 times SR weakness in ZardX's base form revokes this assumption.

SD Mega Sceptile vs. SD Mega Gallade

SD Mega Sceptile:
-Same points as the first one, except for the SR weakness and more susceptibility to being revenge killed by Choice Scarfers. Mega Gallade drops it's defenses with Close Combat, so it becomes more frail than Mega Sceptile after having KOed one Pokemon with CC.

-MScept is overall significantly better at cleaning up frail offensive teams due to its amazing speed stat and Mega Gallade possesses a relatively average Speed tier in the ORAS metagame. (Please don't even think about saying there are many sweepers such as Bisharp and Mega Mawile which are slower and so Mega Gallade's average Speed is not a big downside, they have powerful physical priority and the only priority Mega Gallade gets is STAB special priority and non-STAB Shadow Sneak.)

SD Mega Gallade:
-Mega Gallade's Close Combat is ~34% more powerful than Mega Sceptile's Outrage and Mega Gallade exhibits much better overall type coverage, thereby, Mega Gallade is significantly better at breaking through bulky teams.
-Finds more switch-in opportunities due to better bulk and Mega Galade doesn't get locked into its main STAB, thus Mega Gallade gets more opportunities to bop something with CC and so it is overall much more useful early game in breaking apart the enemy's defenses than Mega Sceptile; SD Mega Sceptile is more of a cleaner.

As you can see, SD Mega Sceptile is actually pretty decent as it has its merits over some of the most revered setup sweepers in OU. It's not a top tier, awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping, rage-inducing, S-rank mon like Mega Gallade and Mega ZardX, but it's not a bad choice whatsoever.

Here's the set I use for SD Mega Sceptile:

Swords Dance
########
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Leaf Blade
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Swords Dance
item: Life Orb
evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
nature: Jolly

Note: Low Kick is better than Earthquake on a Swords Dance set because Low Kick KOs Tyranitar, Bisharp, actually hits Ferrothorn SE, and still OHKOs Heatran at +2 anyways. Also, more than 176 Speed evs is simply arbitrary. 176 Speed evs with a positive nature guarantees outspeeding Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny and allows 80 evs to be able to be invested in Mega Sceptile's lacking bulk.

 

[master_marshmallow]

This is true. Mega Mence's presence and consequently the omnipresence of Ice Shard users greatly hurts SD Mega Sceptile's ability to sweep.



The thing is frail, but not Absol-level frail.



I never said you should set up on Thundurus, that's much too risky. I said that Thundurus' trademark prankster Twave being able to shut down any sweeper doesn't work on SD Mega Sceptile which is great, nor can Thundurus revenge kill SD Mega Sceptile with HP Ice since it'll be annihilated by Outrage.




Mega Sceptile will be at least UU, but I highly doubt it'll stay UU for very long at all, if at all.

Let's just compare it to other dangerous setup sweepers in OU besides Mence because Mence is basically an Uber allowed in OU for the time being.

SD Mega Sceptile vs. DD Mega Charizard X

SD Mega Sceptile:
-SD Mega Sceptile forces many switches against frail offensive teams with its very high base Speed, and can find many opportunities to set up against frail offensive teams thusly.
-MScept is frail and so it's more susceptible to being revenge killed by Choice Scarfers, however, it can't be shut down by Prankster Twave from Thundurus
-Physically Defensive Mega Slowbro is not the unequivocally insurmountable wall for physical sweepers for MScept since a +2 Leaf Blade can pick off a weakned Mega Slowbro(but it does have to be weakened a good bit... fuck Mega Slowbro)
-Stealth Rock weakness, or rather the lack thereof as compared to ZardX

DD Mega Charizard X:
- 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Zard X Outrage at +1 is ~24% more powerful than a 252 Atk Mega Sceptile Outrage at +2 which makes ZardX significantly better at breaking through bulkier teams

-Speed-boosting setup move in theory makes it harder to be revenge killed, but this is only true at +2 since Adamant is used. Both sweepers after having setup outspeed the same Choice Scarfers and normal Pokemon.

-Although it doesn't scare out frail offensive Pokemon with its base Speed, ZardX's significantly better bulk allows it to set up against pokemon lacking a powerful SE move. Hence, each Pokemon can find opportunities to set up in different scenarios from the other as they are vastly different Pokemon outside of being starter MEvos and part Dragon-type.

Less type weaknesses and superior bulk implies ZardX achieves more switch-in opportunities; however, SR weakness and a 4 times SR weakness in ZardX's base form revokes this assumption.

SD Mega Sceptile vs. SD Mega Gallade

SD Mega Sceptile:
-Same points as the first one, except for the SR weakness and more susceptibility to being revenge killed by Choice Scarfers. Mega Gallade drops it's defenses with Close Combat, so it becomes more frail than Mega Sceptile after having KOed one Pokemon with CC.

-MScept is overall significantly better at cleaning up frail offensive teams due to its amazing speed stat and Mega Gallade possesses a relatively average Speed tier in the ORAS metagame. (Please don't even think about saying there are many sweepers such as Bisharp and Mega Mawile which are slower and so Mega Gallade's average Speed is not a big downside, they have powerful physical priority and the only priority Mega Gallade gets is STAB special priority and non-STAB Shadow Sneak.)

SD Mega Gallade:
-Mega Gallade's Close Combat is ~34% more powerful than Mega Sceptile's Outrage and Mega Gallade exhibits much better overall type coverage, thereby, Mega Gallade is significantly better at breaking through bulky teams.
-Finds more switch-in opportunities due to better bulk and Mega Galade doesn't get locked into its main STAB, thus Mega Gallade gets more opportunities to bop something with CC and so it is overall much more useful early game in breaking apart the enemy's defenses than Mega Sceptile; SD Mega Sceptile is more of a cleaner.

As you can see, SD Mega Sceptile is actually pretty decent as it has its merits over some of the most revered setup sweepers in OU. It's not a top tier, awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping, rage-inducing, S-rank mon like Mega Gallade and Mega ZardX, but it's not a bad choice whatsoever.

Here's the set I use for SD Mega Sceptile:

Swords Dance
########
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Leaf Blade
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Swords Dance
item: Life Orb
evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
nature: Jolly

Note: Low Kick is better than Earthquake on a Swords Dance set because Low Kick KOs Tyranitar, Bisharp, actually hits Ferrothorn SE, and still OHKOs Heatran at +2 anyways. Also, more than 176 Speed evs is simply arbitrary. 176 Speed evs with a positive nature guarantees outspeeding Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny and allows 80 evs to be able to be invested in Mega Sceptile's lacking bulk.

I believe you are reiterating my theory Mon from the very beginning of the thread, almost verbatim.
In theory, it's fantastic, jolly Megascept with swords dance is comparable slightly to charX, but it's frailty in practice proved it to be not so strong and it lacks longevity preventing it from sweeping more than one or two Pokemon, and thus makes it a weak choice as your mega to fo with the physical set up build in this tier.
Brick Break and Low Kick are great physical coverage moves because fighting does not overlap with any coverage except rock. Dragon Claw is as good of a move as ever.
But that frailty just doesn't let you last long enough to take out more than one or two enemies unless you go mixed with Giga Drain, and if you go mixed, a Leaf Storm nuke is demonstrably better, and recommended because Giga Drain doesn't have that great of coverage on anything that you fear because you are the anti Rotom.

 

[Josh Morales]

I believe you are reiterating my theory Mon from the very beginning of the thread, almost verbatim.
In theory, it's fantastic, jolly Megascept with swords dance is comparable slightly to charX, but it's frailty in practice proved it to be not so strong and it lacks longevity preventing it from sweeping more than one or two Pokemon, and thus makes it a weak choice as your mega to fo with the physical set up build in this tier.
Brick Break and Low Kick are great physical coverage moves because fighting does not overlap with any coverage except rock. Dragon Claw is as good of a move as ever.
But that frailty just doesn't let you last long enough to take out more than one or two enemies unless you go mixed with Giga Drain, and if you go mixed, a Leaf Storm nuke is demonstrably better, and recommended because Giga Drain doesn't have that great of coverage on anything that you fear because you are the anti Rotom.

If you're using it on a hyper offense team it won't have any less longevity than any other of the offensive mons on your team in my experience. You must not be playing hyper offense correctly as you shouldn't be switching everything into attacks, expecting them to not care about taking it enough to switch in and check the same mon once again. Hyper Offense teams just don't work that way, in fact, they can't work that way. You might be able to switch in and check something once but if you're judging a mon's offensive capability by whether or not it can switch into 2 Specs Secret Swords from Keldeo you're sorely mistaken, not even Latias reliably switches in more than once with Life Orb recoil stacking up and switching into SR. Having to sack pokemon is imperative on such teams, and they open up opportunities to achieve offensive momentum with such pokemon that really can't come into battle otherwise. Obviously bulk is very important, but any more bulk than the necessary amount of bulk is not a necessity but icing on the cake. The only time frailty is a problem is when the mon can't even stomach a moderate power neutral hit like Mega Absol or normal Sharpedo, but that just isn't the case with Mega Sceptile. It's not THAT frail and it has many useful resistances too, if you use it well on a hyper offense team you will not find its longevity to be any more of an issue than any other of your frail offensive pokemon.

 

[master_marshmallow]

If you're using it on a hyper offense team it won't have any less longevity than any other of the offensive mons on your team in my experience. You must not be playing hyper offense correctly as you shouldn't be switching everything into attacks, expecting them to not care about taking it enough to switch in and check the same mon once again. Hyper Offense teams just don't work that way, in fact, they can't work that way. You might be able to switch in and check something once but if you're judging a mon's offensive capability by whether or not it can switch into 2 Specs Secret Swords from Keldeo you're sorely mistaken, not even Latias reliably switches in more than once with Life Orb recoil stacking up and switching into SR. Having to sack pokemon is imperative on such teams, and they open up opportunities to achieve offensive momentum with such pokemon that really can't come into battle otherwise. Obviously bulk is very important, but any more bulk than the necessary amount of bulk is not a necessity but icing on the cake. The only time frailty is a problem is when the mon can't even stomach a moderate power neutral hit like Mega Absol or normal Sharpedo, but that just isn't the case with Mega Sceptile. It's not THAT frail and it has many useful resistances too, if you use it well on a hyper offense team you will not find its longevity to be any more of an issue than any other of your frail offensive pokemon.

I'm referring to it's physical set, it's special set only has issue in coverage because of focus miss missing.
Physical Megascept will set up, get one KO, then get revenge killed pretty easily unless you have set him up very well by getting rid of priority users and bird spam. For a one out maybe two KO streak, it's ability to last in the meta is not so good.
Special Megascept actually has a chance because he can deal two or three KO's without having to set up, or by staying alive longer with Giga Drain.

 

[Jaroda]

Mega Sceptile is greatly outperformed as a set up sweeper because compared to others its bulk, power, and offensive coverage are outclassed. If Sceptile had Nasty Plot this would be different but 110 with no item or ability boost is just woefully underpowered, especially to use your mega slot for. Sceptie's main niche and advantage over other Megas, hell, most pokemon in general is its fantastic base speed and offhand power. It has the potency of most scarf users without being locked into a move. Sceptile is a fantastic revenge killer and cleaner undeterred by paralysis, making it unparalleled in this role. Sceptile comes in, hits hard, exploits a weakness, and then gets out. Attempting to use it in a different role is squandering its potential.

 

[master_marshmallow]

Is focus blast or hidden power really the best thing to have in the last move slot?
I feel like there must be something else out there.

 

[Kurona]

Is focus blast or hidden power really the best thing to have in the last move slot?
I feel like there must be something else out there.

It's other Special options are either additional STAB, woefully weak or Hyper Beam. There's really nothing better unless you want to go mixed for special walls.

 

[master_marshmallow]

It's other Special options are either additional STAB, woefully weak or Hyper Beam. There's really nothing better unless you want to go mixed for special walls.

Right, I hear EQ is popular because the coverage is sauce, low kick also seems good.

 

[DragonAscent]

Quick question: do y'all prefer sub + dual stab and focus miss, or all out naive with EQ and HP fire? I think the latter sounds a bit better, but I'm an in game player, so breeding for hidden powers is...difficult. :<

 

[master_marshmallow]

Focus Miss is a better move than HP fire sans accuracy. If you are playing on a cartridge you should be fine with that.

I'm not convinced on substitute, I would like to test synthesis + energy ball.

 

[Kurona]

Focus Miss is a better move than HP fire sans accuracy. If you are playing on a cartridge you should be fine with that.

I'm not convinced on substitute, I would like to test synthesis + energy ball.

Why Synthesis? Sceptile's bulk is... okay for a defensive mon, but Synthesis ain't gonna get it any longevity.

 

[Punchshroom]

I'm not convinced on substitute

Substitute does a couple of things for Mega Sceptile: it blocks status and Sucker Punch, and it takes advantage of the opponent's switches and prevents them from trying to pivot switch from Mega Sceptile's coverage.

I would like to test synthesis + energy ball

Just do Giga Drain; you get a powerful STAB attack and recovery in one slot, which is important for Sceptile due to its cramped moveslots. You also tend to not make very good use of Synthesis on Mega Scept since you either take too much damage to make up for not attacking on the same turn, or Giga Drain gives you sufficient recovery. It's not like Mega Scept is suffering from LO recoil or anything.

 

[Bribery]

Would Leech Seed be viable on Mega Sceptile? I've found that Mega Sceptile tends to be deadweight against more balanced/stall teams since it doesn't hit hard enough against them. Leech Seed lets you annoy Sceptile's bulkier checks as you switch out into a counter. You could potentially run Energy Ball over Giga Drain then since Leech Seed provides some form of recovery.

 

[IcyMan28]

Would Leech Seed be viable on Mega Sceptile? I've found that Mega Sceptile tends to be deadweight against more balanced/stall teams since it doesn't hit hard enough against them. Leech Seed lets you annoy Sceptile's bulkier checks as you switch out into a counter. You could potentially run Energy Ball over Giga Drain then since Leech Seed provides some form of recovery.

A Subseed set maybe? Along the lines of Sub / Leech Seed / Dragon Pulse / HP Fire? The only issue is that Sylveon, Mega Altaria, and Mega Gardevoir have Pixilate Hyper Voice to bypass it.

 

[Bribery]

A Subseed set maybe? Along the lines of Sub / Leech Seed / Dragon Pulse / HP Fire? The only issue is that Sylveon, Mega Altaria, and Mega Gardevoir have Pixilate Hyper Voice to bypass it.

Yeah, or maybe even an attacking set like Energy Ball or Leaf Storm / Dragon Pulse / Focus Blast / Leech Seed. Basically the same idea as the Substitute set. If your opponent has a non-Grass type counter waiting for Sceptile, use Leech Seed as they switch in. It's a little less effective against offense since you don't have the protection that Substitute provides but it's not total deadweight against stall/balanced teams.

Just theorymoning here though. I haven't actually tried a Leech Seed set yet.

 

[Jaroda]

It's an option, but generally inferior to Substitute or Leaf Storm. Yes, you can run Leaf Storm with Giga Drain, as the power differential is staggering and helps you to KO bulky boosters early like Sableye. Substitute is just good for scouting and giving you breathing room.

 

[seraphii]

Hi new here. May I ask which tier does sceptile belongs to now?

 

[Kurona]

Hi new here. May I ask which tier does sceptile belongs to now?

Right now it's still lingering in RU. This is because usage stats take 3 Months to go into effect, and hence ORAS OU has not had any time to affect usage stats yet. You should definitely see some changes come March or so however; and I can assure you certain Mega Stones - and perhaps even Pokémon, due to Dragalge getting Adaptability and Gen 6 'mon getting tutor moves - will be banned from their current tiers in the meantime.

Also, next time you should go to the simple questions and answers forum -- welcome to Smogon.

 

[Revelation]

Would Drain Punch be better on physical M-Sceptile?

 

[Mashuu]

How is Megatile looking with mence gone now?

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Mega Sceptile looks good in the metagame, it might move up a tier. Why are you guys still considering using SD? It hits what it needs to hit with it's special sets, bar Altaria, Togekiss and Chansey. It's amazingly fast and works wonders on rain. You're free to run modest nature because only thing that outspeeds you is Beedrill. The SD set is outclassed by so many set up sweepers, it's coverage is okay I guess but sceptile really shines on it's special side

Focus blast, Giga Drain, Energy ball, Leaf storm, Hidden power fire/ice/rock, Dragon pulse is all excellent for coverage

 

[Jaroda]

Mega Sceptile looks good in the metagame, it might move up a tier. Why are you guys still considering using SD? It hits what it needs to hit with it's special sets, bar Altaria, Togekiss and Chansey. It's amazingly fast and works wonders on rain. You're free to run modest nature because only thing that outspeeds you is Beedrill. The SD set is outclassed by so many set up sweepers, it's coverage is okay I guess but sceptile really shines on it's special side

Focus blast, Giga Drain, Energy ball, Leaf storm, Hidden power fire/ice/rock, Dragon pulse is all excellent for coverage

Incorrect. Modest means you're also outsped by Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny, and Timid Mega Sceptile. Also, +1 Adamant Mega Gyarados, so it's not like you aren't compromising in some ways. Personally, I prefer the speed, as it helps Sceptile perform its roles as a cleaner and revenge killer better.

Physical only Sceptile is horrible, don't use it. Mixed Sceptile is only slightly better. Drain Punch isn't an option because physical Sceptile isn't.

Sceptile's role in the metagame is quite solid. It's natural 120 speed before megavolving means it has an easier time megavolving than most. It definitely does well on Rain and against Volt Change users and Thundurus. If you run a Steel with Shed Shell, it's fastastic to switch into a choiced Magnezone and getting a free boost. Sceptile has the highest base speed of any Dragon, meaning that is threatens all other Dragons that aren't scarfed or at +1 with Dragon Pulse, and Grass STAB is great to have for several threatening Water types like Mega Slowbro, Azumarill, and Rotom-W. It's niche is extremely solid and offers so many unique things that no other poke can. Don't try to play him as a sweeper or wall breaker, you'll be amazed how far he can go. He excels on Rain, HO, and Voltturn teams in particular.

 

[DragonAscent]

He excels on Rain, HO, and Voltturn teams in particular.

Is sceptile okay outside of voltturn? I'd think so on paper, but right when I finished building a team with it everyone started raving about sceptile + voltturn shenanigans. While I've got your attention, I might as well ask how decent he is on balance. Thanks in advance! :]

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Incorrect. Modest means you're also outsped by Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny, and Timid Mega Sceptile. Also, +1 Adamant Mega Gyarados, so it's not like you aren't compromising in some ways. Personally, I prefer the speed, as it helps Sceptile perform its roles as a cleaner and revenge killer better.

Physical only Sceptile is horrible, don't use it. Mixed Sceptile is only slightly better. Drain Punch isn't an option because physical Sceptile isn't.

Sceptile's role in the metagame is quite solid. It's natural 120 speed before megavolving means it has an easier time megavolving than most. It definitely does well on Rain and against Volt Change users and Thundurus. If you run a Steel with Shed Shell, it's fastastic to switch into a choiced Magnezone and getting a free boost. Sceptile has the highest base speed of any Dragon, meaning that is threatens all other Dragons that aren't scarfed or at +1 with Dragon Pulse, and Grass STAB is great to have for several threatening Water types like Mega Slowbro, Azumarill, and Rotom-W. It's niche is extremely solid and offers so many unique things that no other poke can. Don't try to play him as a sweeper or wall breaker, you'll be amazed how far he can go. He excels on Rain, HO, and Voltturn teams in particular.

Minor correction: except Mega Altaria.

 

[Yanm]

How would you guys say Mega Sceptile functions on Bulky Offense? I've seen a few teams on here that have him set up with a bulky offense archetype, so I'm wondering how that would compare to Hyper Offense.