ORAS In-game Tier List - Read Post #324

[Its_A_Random]

The issue is objectivity. Since many people fight whatever trainer they find it is very easy to be overleveled. I experienced this first hand on my Y playthrough when I had a level 79 Azumarill by the Pokémon league with the rest mid-70's (and this is a six mon run). It was a joke and it was part of the reason why I said no to Exp. Share when I ran the XY tier list. Exp. Share has an effect that can skew a user's perception of a Pokémon that is, they think it is so good that it should be ranked higher than it deserves as well as mask the flaws that each Pokémon has. By not allowing it, we can better assess the qualities of each Pokémon and be able to more objectively determine where a Pokémon should be ranked.

I mean no one is stopping you from using Exp. Share but while it is incredibly efficient, it is bad for this tier list because everything good is skewed and everything bad is generally masked.

 

[hard]

Those sentiments are quite understandable, but they dont give justice to the continuously changing game conditions in every generation.

I d like to recommend a no wild grinding run to everyone whom is thinking of Exp share the same as IAR. When I left Exp share on and didnt switch around my tesm anymore, I was not once overleveled, mostly underleveled.

Efficiency has changed quite a lot since my first generation and I think our tier list should reflect that. Also Exp share is just one aspect which changed, Exp splitting has vanished as well, wild Pokemon give Exp on capture and so on. Lets move with the generations :D

 

[Stellar]

I haven't used Mawile so take this with a grain of salt, but it definitely seems like it should be higher than C in theory.

Availability: Granite Cave (i.e., between badges 2 and 3)
Movepool: Sucks pretty hardcore until you get to Fallarbor (Fairy Wind + Bite + Rock Tomb + Power-Up Punch?), but that only requires beating one gym after you obtain Mawile. After that, you get Iron Head + Play Rough from the move relearner. Crunch comes decently early at Lv29. Swords Dance from Lavaridge.
Mega Stone: Available near Verdanturf pre-Cave of Origin, meaning you can mega evolve as soon as you get the bracelet.

I feel like a Pokémon as powerful as Mega Mawile with access to both STAB moves + Crunch/Sucker Punch + SD would definitely be worth using. In theory, it donks Norman + Winona + Liza/Tate + all of the Elite 4.

Maybe I'm missing something...?

 

[SimicCombine]

For the move relearner, Heart Scales are in short supply until you reach Ever Grande. I used the Dowsing Machine religiously and only had one Heart Scale when I hit Fallarbor. So using the move relearner is a definite opportunity cost and means you're seriously delaying other goodies like Hi Jump Kick for Blaziken or Moonblast for Gardevoir.

 

[Stellar]

Heart Scales can be found on Route 104 (1), Route 109 (2), Route 118 (1), and by using Rock Smash (random). I've played through twice and have had at least three both times. I don't think it's as large of an opportunity cost as you are making it out to be.

 

[Colonel M]

Maybe it was just me but I found a lot of Heart Scales just through Rock Smash every now and then. It is a small delay but, for the majority of Pokemon like Mawile, the pros outweigh the cons.

For Mawile it is available in odd spots. For what it is worth it dunks the E4, as mentioned, pretty damn hard. Speed is kind of a letdown though.

If you grab the Mawile in Granite Cave it is Level 10-12 - and it wouldnt be available until after you get the Mach Bike. Though to be fair its fast Exp Growth and Intimidate help him out. I could pull the lolcopout of "it has weak SpD C tier at best" but I dont slap mud like people do with Graveler on that.

If we assume Magikarp gets a small excuse since its period of smashing through the game comes at a cost of training for 10 levels (and can easily be done after Wattson IMO), then Mawile can get a little love to get caught up. It does require two Heart Scales for maximum potential (you want both Play Rough and Iron Head). You can teach it Rock Tomb for Pokemon like Zubat / Golbat. Once it has Swords Dance it rounds out nicely. Intimidate is great tol because it helps set up versus Slakings in Norman's gym. You could Swords Dance + Iron Defense to clear through with no issues. Crunch I feel is situationally useful - but it does help against some Pokemon like random Baltoy / Claydol.

I dont have OR or I would try it myself. I think C is pretty safe, but with enough convincing I could maybe buy B tier. Mawile at least has base 85 Attack to work with.

 

[Karxrida]

If you don't want to drag a Mawile around, it's still available to encounter in the Cave of Origin and Victory Road with minimal grinding necessary. This brings up the issue of it now being late-game to not have to deal with its "borderline unusable" period, but it still dominates the E4 and Wally.

 

[Lucchini]

I'm playing through the game with Mawile right now and it seems like a very strong A, possibly an S depending on one 'little' thing - how much importance we attribute to necessitating a mega stone. If Mawile uses it, your other folks can't do the same in the same battle. By late to endgame, regular Mawile's stats just aren't good enough unless you transform.

Its typing allows it to switch into a lot of things with ease (and I really mean this; you switch it in pre-Mega and it hardly ever needs healing because of how little damage it receives), and its early period before the enormous Heart Scale boost that pretty much lasts for the whole game (I also run Stone Edge and PuP on mine) is more than bearable - it's kinda like your average good Pokemon at that point.

On that note, I compiled a comprehensive list of important uses for Heart Scales in this game. Please tell me if it's missing anything:

Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire Heart Scale recommendations

Raichu - Thunderbolt
Wigglytuff - Play Rough, Double-Edge
Crobat - Cross Poison
Machamp - Low Kick
Golem - Heavy Slam
Seadra/Kingdra - Hydro Pump
Seaking - Megahorn
Starmie - Hydro Pump
Gyarados - Thrash
Bellossom - Leaf Storm
Heracross - Bullet Seed, Pin Missile
Magcargo - Earth Power
Sceptile - Leaf Storm
Blaziken - Flare Blitz, Hi Jump Kick
Swamper - Hammer Arm
Mightyena - Crunch
Linoone - Play Rough
Shiftry - Nasty Plot
Swellow - Brave Bird
Pelipper - Hurricane, Hydro Pump
Gardevoir - Moonblast
Masquerain - Quiver Dance, Bug Buzz
Slaking - Hammer Arm
Ninjask - Bug Bite
Exploud - Boomburst
Mawile - Play Rough, Iron Head
Medicham - Zen Headbutt, elemental punches
Swalot - Gunk Shot
Sharpedo - Night Slash
Wailord - Heavy Slam
Flygon - Earthquake
Lunatone - Moonblast
Banette - Phantom Force
Tropius - Leaf Storm
Walrein - Crunch
Relicanth - Head Smash

...I guess this might open a Pandora's box for hyping useless Pokemon, lol.

 

[11pikabro]

More Discussion Needed:
Tentacool B --> A
Zubat B --> A
Lotad S --> A
Oddish (Vileplume) C --> B
Swablu C --> B
Carvanha S --> A (It should be 100% S imo)
Feebas C --> D
Zigzagoon A --> B
Electrike A --> S (I was a little premature on this tbh)
Rhyhorn C --> B (This comes right when all of the water starts, which really hurts it. I think C, but it's at least worth some consideration)
Horsea (Trade) B --> C

I think that's all of them. There was a bit of discussion about Numel, but people were arguing about S, A and B, where both times the consensus was A. I'm not saying he can't change in the future, there just wasn't a proper nomination at any point.

Also, though I don't like doing this, Treecko will not change tiers. A-Rank is where it belongs, and unless something substantial happens like a patch giving Treecko Leaf Storm at level 6, Treecko WILL be A-Tier. It has completely dominated discussion in this thread thus far, so I think we should move on.

The above bolded Pokémon were all part of my team that I used for my playthrough and will be what I'll discuss here if I hadn't discussed them already. I also had a Skarmory and a Heracross (yes, that makes a team of seven, but that's what happens when you wanna use 'em all), but since they're not requested for more discussion yet, I won't discuss them now.

A
After thinking about Tentacool more, I realized that never I picked up TM Dazzling Gleam during the main game, which would've been very nice to use against Team Magma, Sydney, and Drake, as well as against the various Fighting-types throughout the game. It also pairs well with Acid Spray, and it could work as a spread move if you don't want to damage allies with Surf. Dazzling Gleam may be just a single move difference from my last argument, but it's a viable move to have Tentacool learn, and it's a shame that I never picked the TM up 'til post-Delta Episode.

B
One of my reasons for having a team of seven was because I knew I wouldn't be using Linoone in battle at the Elite Four: it has just too low offensive and defensive stats to go 1-on-1 against most of their Pokémon. That's not to say, though, that it cannot hold its own against regular trainers. It gets strong STAB in the form of Double-Edge, gets useful level-up options like Pin Missile and Play Rough (they're great for all the Mightyena), and has access to a wide variety of TMs. The TM access, in my opinion, is still its greatest selling point: Linoone gets plenty of alternating type coverage and access to four HMs and TM Dig. Pickup is a great asset for any in-game team. Overall, Linoone provides useful utility throughout the game but lacks the stats to battle late game (as it does in other Pokémon versions).

A (OR), S (AS) See "Major Battles" for reason of possible separation.

Formatted Argument for Electrike

Availability: Route 110, 40%
Typing: Pure Electric typing is good, though it isn't great to have up until about Fortree City. It becomes much better late game from there
Stats: Pretty low as an Electrike, yet they never bothered me during my playthrough, since they did well for how I used Electrike. The high Sp. Atk and Speed are increasingly more helpful upon evolution, especially since you'll most likely be able to Mega Evolve at about the same time it evolves into Manectric. Its deceptively physically bulkier after Mega Evolving, too, thanks to Intimidate.
Movepool: Unfortunately only starts with physical options (and Thunder Wave), but luckily Charge Beam and Volt Switch are available during your time at Mauville City. I never picked up Charge Beam, but Volt Switch did its job in tandem with Spark and Thief in terms of coverage. It doesn't get to use Flannery's TM Overheat until evolution, but Manectric uses it well and can switch it with TM Flamethrower late game. Discharge becomes its primary STAB move for the rest of the game unless you go get TM Thunderbolt. Lastly, it can use HM Strength, but I left that job to Linoone.
Major Battles:
This is where I feel the divide between A and S depends on the whether you play OR or AS. Team Magma and Team Aqua's exclusive Pokémon, Numel and Carvanha, make Electrike look either terrible or awesome, respectively. The type matchups are just too different that I feel Electrike would perform better in Alpha Sapphire. The matchups apply further to Groudon and Kyogre. Primal Groudon outright walls Manectric no matter what, but Primal Kyogre is very likely 2HKO'd by a Thunder attack from Mega Manectric.
Beyond that, Electrike has no favorable gym matches until Winona, where it can almost sweep if not for her Altaria and its Earthquake attack (I had decided prior to entering the Weather Institute to not Mega Evolve anymore until the Elite Four, so Manectric could probably survive the Earthquake if I used the Manectite). Manectric is great against Wallace, when paired with a Grass-type. In addition, I mainly used Manectric for its excellent ability to provide chip damage with Volt Switch. The chip damage always was helpful for its teammates, since my team was always underleveled.
Other: Lightningrod was the ability I had, which was great since it allowed Electrike to level up against all of the Electric users of Cycling Road, not that leveling it up was a problem. Thanks to Volt Switch, Slow Exp. Growth never seemed "slow to grow", and in fact, Electrike was usually the second highest in level during my playthrough. Overall from experience and theory, Electrike best fits A-tier for Omega Ruby. Since the A vs. S tier debate likely stems from the Version used it in, though, I think Electrike better fits S-tier for Alpha Sapphire thanks to Electrike having more satisfying matchups with Team Aqua than with Team Magma.

B

Formatted Argument for Numel

Availability: Route 112, ~60%
Typing: Fire-Ground is a mix of all the good and bad of both types, in my opinion. Both types provide very nice STAB coverage but leave it highly vulnerable to very common Water and Ground-type moves. It's nice to have the Electric immunity and Rock neutrality, but I wish the Ground typing didn't also neutralize its Grass and Ice resistances.
Stats: Numel has some decent offenses that are unfortunately overshadowed by its low Speed and defensive stats. Those stats don't get relatively better after evolving, either, so sweeping with Camerupt is almost never going to happen without a little help.
Movepool: Flame Burst and Magnitude are great starting STAB to have, and Numel has great STAB for pretty much the majority of the game. For Simple Numel, Amnesia and TM Flame Charge provide very helpful stat boosts, but Overheat should be avoided until it evolves and trades Simple for Solid Rock. Yawn comes late but is useful considering Numel's low Speed. For utility, it learns Strength, Rock Smash, and Dig.
Major Battles: If it can get to Lv. 26 to learn Earth Power, Numel fights well against Flannery, but it will otherwise get walled by Torkoal if it cannot do so. It can pick off a couple of Winona's, Glacia's, and Steven's Pokémon with the right coverage move, too.

My own experience with Numel was pretty bad when I used it in many important matches. I didn't even hit Level 26 at Flannery, so the luxury of Earth Power wasn't around until after Lavaridge Town. Being underleveled also didn't help against Team Magma, where their Camerupt tended to beat my Numel in most battles because Solid Rock was too overwhelming for Numel, but at least Numel could beat their Poison-types. Its low speed usually was the reason for its downfall, especially when Simple Flame Charge was no more after evolving. The lack of Ice and Grass resistances also caused Camerupt to fail to KO both of Sydney's Cacturne and Shiftry, or KO all of Glacia's Froslass and Glalie without some healing or assistance (although being underleveled against Glacia makes almost every Pokémon susceptible to Blizz-spam).

Other: Simple > Oblivious anytime, especially since you get access to O-Powers right before you catch Numel. Simple Numel gets easy +2 boosts from using the O-Powers. Numel can perform well in-game if given the right support, but on its own it's too slow and frail to perform consistently.

I feel kinda bad for my own Camerupt, since for some reason it has started to perform well only after Steven and the main game (it might be because I like using Yawn+Protect with it, or maybe because it now has the Cameruptite).

 

[Colonel M]

Good list Lucchini. I would add Pin Missile to Hera's list if only because it helps him when Megahorn is absent. I cant remember when Heracronite is but if it is before endgame - Pin Missile > Megahorn.

Also good to know someone tried Mawile. I guess its heavy reliance on a Mega could be seen as a minor downside, but let's be real - most Pokemon like that you would still prefer to Mega. It just demolishes shit after the Mega so hard that you almost wouldnt want anything else. And it can do some work once it has those clutch moves.

Im actually going to say A Mawile. I am a little leery on S - I dont want to quite throw the possibility of S out the window though. I will say Mawile should be higher. After a little special treatment it throws the game in its favor - especially as a Mega. And it only sucks in, what, two gyms and Magma for the most part (Magma is due to Numel / Camerupt). It can plow through Norman after setup and almost needs nothing for Winona (Skarmory is the only hard climb for M-Mawile), Tate and Liza cant do crap, and the only fear Mawile has against Wallace is Tentacruel resisting its STABs. Sydney is toast, Phoebe can only Burn / Curse it, Glacia cant do too much to it, and Mawile just needs to avoid the Flygons. Steven is so-so maybe - though it nukes Armaldo and Cradily without much trouble and Brick Break can be used to bypass Aggron or Crunch for Claydol / Metagross (Metagross lacks EQ now so it is safe for Mawile to face Metagross).

I want more to chime in, but A for Mawile atm. Consider S though.

Other notes for Celever:

- B Lotad
- B Graveler (A Golem is fine IMO)
- A Mawile
- No higher than B for Zubat.

Shroomish was leaned towarda B endgame - I would ask how much they used Swords Dance / Bulk Up though.

- C Slakoth. Maybe D. Vigoroth should just stay at D.
- A for Absol
- Pinsir needs more weigh-in.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

-Discussion about ranking it self-
Just want to spark a discussion: If Megavolution is an evil neccesary, shouldn't the pokemon be ranked lower on the list?
You wonder why?

For me, due to the easy nature of Pokemon games, speeding through the game is CRITICAL IN RATING A MON.
This also counts for Sword Dance or similar """""good"""" moves (rly, with X items and O Powers, rly??)
-Discussion about ranking it self ending-


For example Standard Swampert > Mega Swampert in the game: You wreck the first gym easy, for the second gym you need the RapeBird aka Taillow, and the rest is wrecking with Swampert xept last one...for example in the third city you get Water Pledge a move with ridiculous 80 base power. That wrecks pretty much everything, later you get surf, you get ice moves yadda yadda.



Sharpedo getting S for a VM Slave is worth it for being the fastest surf mon in the game. You can easily catch it with the best Rod in the Route before the Treehouse City, and don't have to use it in battle at all, although it isn't bad by any means.


Maybe you will disagree with Sharpedo, but I hope a lot of folks here agrees that whatever makes the game fast should rank high, and whatever mechanic makes it slower (Megavolution animation, Powerup Moves without Damage) shouldn't be ranked S

 

[11pikabro]

Good list Lucchini. I would add Pin Missile to Hera's list if only because it helps him when Megahorn is absent. I cant remember when Heracronite is but if it is before endgame - Pin Missile > Megahorn.

Heracronite is found on a beach at Route 127, so yeah, you can get some use out of it before the Elite Four. You could even try it with Bullet Seed and raid Sootopolis Gym, but I'm not sure what the results there would look like.

I myself actually dual STAB-ed both Pin Missile (which you need to level up to learn at Lv 31) and Megahorn, mainly because I had other Mega Evolutions that could put in more work than Mega Heracross in some battles. It's not like normal Heracross is helpless on its own anyway: it has the more reliable Speed stat and the Guts ability, the latter of which proved way more useful than Skill Link when facing Phoebe.

 

[Ender]

I'm starting omega ruby now and will do my own test of Mawile. I'll report back with my opinion later on, once I've gotten the chance to put it through its paces.

 

[Colonel M]

As expected - No Grass Pledge for Treecko when I arrived in Mauville City. So - I think we can safely debunk any attempt on that unless we decide to do some massive favoritism.

On that note, I have my current team as Geodude / Zubat / Treecko / Marill. I decided to drop Lotad after some calculations, further research, and wanting to test Marill. I have also decided to give Marill the Treecko treatment. This one I decided to hold back until Marill learns Play Rough. Seems dumb but Marill gets Aqua Tail at 20 and Play Rough at 23 instead of 21 / 25. Boosted Exp also helps. Marill is okay in base form too since Defense Curl + Rollout does work.

Treecko is really awlward. Like the first Mega Drain doesnt seem to do enough to 2HKO but for some reason the second one (usually) does. Being physically frail is pretty noticeable now but it kind of works out. We'll just say Treecko is proving decent. Also - I wouldnt really use him for Wattson. Even an overleveled Grovyle does so so against all three of Wattson's Pokemon and it is still prone to Volt Switching (even if you claim lolresist - being able to switch is still possible). Still it hasnt been doing too bad and it is pulling its weight. One more level for Giga Drain too so Im pretty psyched for that.

My Zubat... must have a 0 in Speed. It is a Relaxed nature too. XD. That being said - Zubat is pretty cool. Quad resist on Grass completely trolls - and I need a Grass / Poison resist due to my current team composition. Even if Zubat stays meh throughout I probably would use it over Swablu - which Celever wants me to test (/slash).

Geodude and I have balls. I put it against Goldeen and Tentacool and they must be so shocked that they dont use a Water move. Im kidding - I knew Tentacool and Goldeen didnt learn Water Pulse until Level 16. So I completely trolled them for it.

Everyone is about Level 20 entering Wattsons gym. I only went on some of the outskirts of Mauville to get Marill and Treecko up. Geodude might even hit Graveler if all I did was use Geodude in the gym.

 

[Spenstar]

As expected - No Grass Pledge for Treecko when I arrived in Mauville City. So - I think we can safely debunk any attempt on that unless we decide to do some massive favoritism...

...Treecko is really awlward. Like the first Mega Drain doesnt seem to do enough to 2HKO but for some reason the second one (usually) does. Being physically frail is pretty noticeable now but it kind of works out. We'll just say Treecko is proving decent. Also - I wouldnt really use him for Wattson. Even an overleveled Grovyle does so so against all three of Wattson's Pokemon and it is still prone to Volt Switching (even if you claim lolresist - being able to switch is still possible). Still it hasnt been doing too bad and it is pulling its weight. One more level for Giga Drain too so Im pretty psyched for that.

What item are you having Treecko hold? Miracle seed is great but I'm wondering if, by the time you get to Slateport, at least one of your mons (Treecko most likely) is friendly enough to get a soothe bell. That might be enough to push happiness over the required levels for Grass Pledge. I readily admit I am grasping for straws, but it's an idea nonetheless

 

[Colonel M]

Miracle Seed. I would not try Soothe Bell. Let us be frank - why take Grass Pledge when you have Giga Drain anyway?

I would not assume any of the pledges by Mauville without massive time / favoritism anyway.

 

[Stellar]

I doubt you need more anecdotal evidence, but I've reached Mauville three times total and have never had access to the pledges upon first arrival.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

And why did I got Water Pledge on my Marshtomp(eh....however it is called) as soon as I checked every guy in my first playthrough? Are there maybe actions which made M. make me like more or what? Maybe I am missing a detail.

It made the fire gym a total pushover btw :P

 

[Celever]

And why did I got Water Pledge on my Marshtomp(eh....however it is called) as soon as I checked every guy in my first playthrough? Are there maybe actions which made M. make me like more or what? Maybe I am missing a detail.

It made the fire gym a total pushover btw :P

How much did you grind? Did you use a Soothe Bell? How often did Marshtomp faint?

With a normal playthrough you will not have access to the pledge moves on your first visit to Maville. Favouritism, grinding and the Soothe Bell do not count for this argument because they are not "normal".

 

[stage7_4]

I rushed to Mauville with minimum grinding and my Marshtomp couldn't learn Water Pledge immediately. But then I took it to the massage lady in the same area and one session of sensual therapy was all it took to make it happy enough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the pledges might not be immediately accessible when you get there, but they should come up pretty quick. And I don't see too much of an opportunity cost with the massage lady sitting right next door if you need a little boost.

As for pokemon I used, can we give Magnemite a lifetime achievement award for in-game runs? While this iteration has a slower start-up, it does become useful right after Flannery and stays useful straight up to the finish line. It helps that you don't have to open New Mauville to evolve it into Magnezone, although the eviolite comes a little late (post-Mt. Pyre if you follow the story, but there's nothing stopping you from detouring and grabbing it before the Fortree gym).

Pros: Great against Norman, Winona, Lize&Tate, Wallace, Team Aqua, and most of the Elite Four/Steven. Also great for end-game sea routes. Easy to get Magnezone after 5th gym, Eviolite-Magneton as an alternative. Needs no TM Investment (except Charge Beam for early-game).

Cons: A little hard to find (hordes only, except if you DexNav), useless when you get it against Wattson and Flannery, less useful against Team Magma, a little slow, can't take a ground attack even with eviolite (and Magnet Rise is really late at level 53).

I say he deserves his current S ranking but I can see an A rank if his early game performance really sours you. Too bad you get him about when Sonic Boom starts to not 2-shot everything. Basically what CTNC said, but I favored Charge Beam over Volt Switch until Discharge came to play.

 

[Detective Barricade]

How much did you grind? Did you use a Shell Bell? How often did Marshtomp faint?

With a normal playthrough you will not have access to the pledge moves on your first visit to Maville. Favouritism, grinding and the Shell Bell do not count for this argument because they are not "normal".

I think you mean Soothe Bell. Shell Bell is what you get after playing around in Shoal Cave, not talking to someone in Slateport.

I rushed to Mauville with minimum grinding and my Marshtomp couldn't learn Water Pledge immediately. But then I took it to the massage lady in the same area and one session of sensual therapy was all it took to make it happy enough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the pledges might not be immediately accessible when you get there, but they should come up pretty quick. And I don't see too much of an opportunity cost with the massage lady sitting right next door if you need a little boost.

As for pokemon I used, can we give Magnemite a lifetime achievement award for in-game runs? While this iteration has a slower start-up, it does become useful right after Flannery and stays useful straight up to the finish line. It helps that you don't have to open New Mauville to evolve it into Magnezone, although the eviolite comes a little late (post-Mt. Pyre if you follow the story, but there's nothing stopping you from detouring and grabbing it before the Fortree gym).

Pros: Great against Norman, Winona, Lize&Tate, Wallace, Team Aqua, and most of the Elite Four/Steven. Also great for end-game sea routes. Easy to get Magnezone after 5th gym, Eviolite-Magneton as an alternative. Needs no TM Investment (except Charge Beam for early-game).

Cons: A little hard to find (hordes only, except if you DexNav), useless when you get it against Wattson and Flannery, less useful against Team Magma, a little slow, can't take a ground attack even with eviolite (and Magnet Rise is really late at level 53).

I say he deserves his current S ranking but I can see an A rank if his early game performance really sours you. Too bad you get him about when Sonic Boom starts to not 2-shot everything. Basically what CTNC said, but I favored Charge Beam over Volt Switch until Discharge came to play.

Actually, you can't pass the 'maze' part of Route 120 without the Feather Badge... Some jerk of a Bird Keeper won't let you go past him until you do.

 

[Colonel M]

I just tried giving my 21 Grovyle a massage. Still no Grass Pledge. It's not like I've been treating it like crap either (no EXP share, no real favoritism against it, maybe died 1-2 times tops).

I also tried putting Grovyle in against Wattson. Thunder Wave is really damn annoying for Grovyle and Supersonic from Magneton sucks. Geodude simply did so much better in here - though it required a turn of setup for Rock Polish the Rock Polish outsped the Magnemite and can outspeed Magneton after either a Rock Tomb (to bypass Sturdy) or Bulldoze / 2nd Rock Polish, etc. Honestly, Geodude was a much safer Pokemon here than Grovyle against the gym. Grovyle did okay at best.

On a side note - I realized Pikachu actually could do some work against this gym. The Cosplay one, of course. Lightningrod makes it immune to Volt Switch and the Tough Costume gives Pikachu Flying Press - which at least does neutral damage to the Magnemite family.

 

[Detective Barricade]

I just tried giving my 21 Grovyle a massage. Still no Grass Pledge. It's not like I've been treating it like crap either (no EXP share, no real favoritism against it, maybe died 1-2 times tops).

I also tried putting Grovyle in against Wattson. Thunder Wave is really damn annoying for Grovyle and Supersonic from Magneton sucks. Geodude simply did so much better in here - though it required a turn of setup for Rock Polish the Rock Polish outsped the Magnemite and can outspeed Magneton after either a Rock Tomb (to bypass Sturdy) or Bulldoze / 2nd Rock Polish, etc. Honestly, Geodude was a much safer Pokemon here than Grovyle against the gym. Grovyle did okay at best.

On a side note - I realized Pikachu actually could do some work against this gym. The Cosplay one, of course. Lightningrod makes it immune to Volt Switch and the Tough Costume gives Pikachu Flying Press - which at least does neutral damage to the Magnemite family.

Would it, though? Both Steel and Electric resist Flying, so it might actually be not very effective. Will have to test this with a Hawlucha, since I've yet to bother getting Cosplay-chu.

 

[stage7_4]

Would it, though? Both Steel and Electric resist Flying, so it might actually be not very effective. Will have to test this with a Hawlucha, since I've yet to bother getting Cosplay-chu.

I actually tried Flying Press Pikachu against the gym trainers. It's doesn't work, all of them resist it.

 

[Colonel M]

Would it, though? Both Steel and Electric resist Flying, so it might actually be not very effective. Will have to test this with a Hawlucha, since I've yet to bother getting Cosplay-chu.

Ah, this is my bad. I almost forgot about the quadruple resistance in the process of the SE. So yeah, scratch Cosplay Pikachu in general from my statement.