Linked

[Hack_Guy]

If the first move hits something immune to it, does it cancel the second move in the link Hack_Guy ? So if my Garchomp uses Outrage+Earthquake against Klefki, does Klefki still eat the Earthquake or does it avoid both?

To answer your question, yes the klefki will still eat the earthquake because it hits right after the outrage

 

[Tarontos]

since your on now is there any way to prevent the rise of quick phase, there is a reason those all had a priority of negative 6 to begin with, so that your opponent always gets to attack putting them on things like mega arradactl is going to remove alot of the ability to move at all out side of priority

 

[Hack_Guy]

since your on now is there any way to prevent the rise of quick phase, there is a reason those all had a priority of negative 6 to begin with, so that your opponent always gets to attack putting them on things like mega arradactl is going to remove alot of the ability to move at all out side of priority

So, there was an Idea suggested earlier that the moves in the link get the priority of the move which has the lowest. I think that the meta can be changed such that this rule comes into effect. It should be a really effective way to stop quick phase. I'll have to see how many people are in tandem with it though

 

[Tarontos]

yeah i was the one who suggested that, and implementing this will give certain things some powerful priority to abuse

dragonite gets extreemsspeed and aquajet for example giving him an efective parental bond extreem speed out side of type differences and a drop in priority.

other things to note are prankster pokemon like sableye could use wow/sub or wow/mind to set up quickly in front of any thing followed by mega evolution or just stick with prankster and be a pain to take out.

other things to note would be mega pinsir with feint/quick attack a a protect breaker priority move

so this methodaoligy gives things with double priority a boost over those who have only one move.

what do you guys think of item less talon flame with acro bird that should be fairly deadly
giving it a choice band does more damage so ariael ace/brave bird does more damage with a band.
granted choice band brave/roost could also be good

 

[Isa Simple]

Dual Screens are way easier to set up now and will help with all the nuking.

Super Fang + Brine Mega Sharpedo or Specs Walrein amirite? lol, you know you've found a great meta when this shit actually works effectively xD
Who would have thought that Specs Walrein would ever be able to 2HKO Blissey with such ease.

Roost + Soft Boiled Mew. Not sure how many other bulky pokemon get 2 reliable recovery moves but it is pretty cool.

 

[Tarontos]

Pain split recover sableye could be a very powerful antI blob.
Pain split volts witch roTom W
several things can pair well with recovery
like flare blitz roost meGA Zara x

Dual screen klefkie could be iratating

 

[Hack_Guy]

OK, so a few things to clear up (will make them in the OP once I stop being lazy)
Life orb recoil happens twice, so 20% damage is taken per turn
For drawbacks, I suppose a sort of pressure effect can be enacted onto the linked moves. So focus blast now has 4 uses
And if one move looses PP,the link breaks

Also, can this meta be coded? Its one question a few people have been asking me

 

[Phione]

Dual Screens are way easier to set up now and will help with all the nuking.

Super Fang + Brine Mega Sharpedo or Specs Walrein amirite? lol, you know you've found a great meta when this shit actually works effectively xD
Who would have thought that Specs Walrein would ever be able to 2HKO Blissey with such ease.

Roost + Soft Boiled Mew. Not sure how many other bulky pokemon get 2 reliable recovery moves but it is pretty cool.

Latias gets Roost and Recover. Ah hell no.

Setup sweepers/stallers also get really powerful boosts. Slowbro can CM and Iron Defense on the same turn. :(

 

[Tarontos]

wish softboiled chansey = ultimate wish pass
i think it is feasible to code given my current knowledge of java but i am not sure how the simulator works. one way to work with it might be to basicly combine the two moves effects into a "new move" and test each time it is used for the remaining pp of both moves. i don't know enough of the code for the simulator to really say for sure though

 

[Kit Kasai]

wish softboiled chansey = ultimate wish pass
i think it is feasible to code given my current knowledge of java but i am not sure how the simulator works. one way to work with it might be to basicly combine the two moves effects into a "new move" and test each time it is used for the remaining pp of both moves. i don't know enough of the code for the simulator to really say for sure though

And then you realize the sim is not coded in Java

 

[Tarontos]

java script and java are simlar at least looking at the code people post

 

[Throbulator36]

Assurance is also viable here

Sharpedo @ Sharpedite
Speed Boost
-Crunch
-Assurance
-Waterfall/Aqua Jet
-Ice Fang/Aqua Jet/Protect

you hit twice with 120 BP dark stab possibly picking on a dropped defense

Weavile @ LO
Pressure
-Knock Off
-Assurance
-Ice Shard
-Low Kick/Icicle Crash/Protect

slightly weaker than above set but anti-stall and can destroy linked moves with protect

 

[Mygavolt]

EDIT: ^Assurance does seem like an amazing idea.

• No mention of Smack Down+Earthquake, and I wonder why...
• Spore+Wake-Up Slap on Breloom
• Mean Look+Perish Song
• Foresight+Rapid Spin
• Eruption+Fire Blast Scarf Typhlosion
• Flare Blitz+Slack Off on Infernape. What recoil?
• I've seen many mentions of setup+offensive move combinations. How about Power-Up Punch+Flame Charge? 40 Fighting and 50 Fire physical Dragon Dance right here.
• I can also see double-setup (i.e. Double Dance) being popular here.
• Also, setup move+Baton Pass (e.g. Volbeat with Tail Glow+Baton Pass)
• Trick Room+Belly Drum Slowbro/king
• Zard-X gets Belly Drum and Roost. However, I feel there's a question of whether Roost first or Belly Drum first would be preferable. Roost first guarantees a Belly Drum but leaves Zard-X with 50% HP or lower, while Belly Drum first guarantees Zard-X over 50% HP, but only if it has enough HP for Belly Drum to work.

Seems like a crazy metagame to me.

 

[Ghoul King]

Here's a big question: are the first two moves always linked or are they linked only if you select the first of the two moves? Because the latter is more flexible than the former.

I don't think this is going to be as offensively oriented as people are saying. Chansey gets perfect Wish passing, Unaware Clefable gets Cosmic Boiled, in general stall can always link together healing with activity (Meaning it can't get locked into a situation of having to heal every turn and thus not get in productive moves), etc.

I really think priority has to either be the slowest priority number gets applied to the whole chain or the Pokemon uses both moves in one turn but not back to back. That is, there's no reason you can't Bullet Punch as your first action before the enemy moves, they use their two back-to-back 0 priority moves, and then you use your other move that's reduced priority.

Just flat out changing priority to always be zero or to be the first thing's priority alone is just demented, giving us stuff like Scarfed Infernape sets Stealth Rock and then Roars you out before you can move, or non-Scarfed Infernape Mach Punches you and then Roars you out at +1 priority. Or Mach Punch followed by instant Focus Punch, screw you here's 190 BP of pain at +1 priority. (Who cares about V-Create?)

I find very interesting a lot of the Volt Switch and U-Turn based shenanigans. (Victini V-Creates and then immediately U-Turns out, avoiding the disadvantage entirely) Suicide leads are also interesting -set Stealth Rock and Explode in one action.

Also note stuff like: Shuckle uses Power Trick and then immediately smacks you with Stone Edge. Then it can just switch out and do it again later. Naturally Stealth Webs is probably going to be a more popular use of Shuckle, but hey. (Though I'd prefer using Galvantula with Sticky Web+Volt Switch, Scarfed, myself)

Also note: Encore+Disable.

This is a really interesting meta. I really want to see it. And then see it win OMotM. This is amazing.

 

[Tarontos]

dont for get hyper/giga moves have a much wider distribution than things like Vcreate.

also the reason making them go at different time would be bad would be protect/focuspunch or protect/roar and fake/turn would all be broken as hell

 

[Ghoul King]

Going simultaneously doesn't change that. Protect keeps you Protected for the turn, the end, not until your next move. You'd have to add a special clause about Protect being banned from links to stop that stuff.

 

[The Immortal]

Going simultaneously doesn't change that. Protect keeps you Protected for the turn, the end, not until your next move. You'd have to add a special clause about Protect being banned from links to stop that stuff.

Use Feint as part of your link :)

 

[Juicy Cocktail]

This seems like it would be fun

Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Transform
- U-turn
- Something

 

[Acast]

Here's a big question: are the first two moves always linked or are they linked only if you select the first of the two moves? Because the latter is more flexible than the former.

I don't think this is going to be as offensively oriented as people are saying. Chansey gets perfect Wish passing, Unaware Clefable gets Cosmic Boiled, in general stall can always link together healing with activity (Meaning it can't get locked into a situation of having to heal every turn and thus not get in productive moves), etc.

I really think priority has to either be the slowest priority number gets applied to the whole chain or the Pokemon uses both moves in one turn but not back to back. That is, there's no reason you can't Bullet Punch as your first action before the enemy moves, they use their two back-to-back 0 priority moves, and then you use your other move that's reduced priority.

Just flat out changing priority to always be zero or to be the first thing's priority alone is just demented, giving us stuff like Scarfed Infernape sets Stealth Rock and then Roars you out before you can move, or non-Scarfed Infernape Mach Punches you and then Roars you out at +1 priority. Or Mach Punch followed by instant Focus Punch, screw you here's 190 BP of pain at +1 priority. (Who cares about V-Create?)

I find very interesting a lot of the Volt Switch and U-Turn based shenanigans. (Victini V-Creates and then immediately U-Turns out, avoiding the disadvantage entirely) Suicide leads are also interesting -set Stealth Rock and Explode in one action.

Also note stuff like: Shuckle uses Power Trick and then immediately smacks you with Stone Edge. Then it can just switch out and do it again later. Naturally Stealth Webs is probably going to be a more popular use of Shuckle, but hey. (Though I'd prefer using Galvantula with Sticky Web+Volt Switch, Scarfed, myself)

Also note: Encore+Disable.

This is a really interesting meta. I really want to see it. And then see it win OMotM. This is amazing.

Of course it's not my decision, but I think the first two moves should always be linked no matter which one you select to use in battle. That's how it is in the PMD mechanics (not that those mechanics matter much here anyway) and it would also prevent this meta from getting too complicated.

At first I thought defensive sets would be practically useless considering all the offensive possibilities, but I see your point. It's not just sweepers and wallbreakers that get insane buffs. Every kind of play style gets new toys and strategies to play with so it's going to be much more cut-throat and intense, but not necessarily all offense all the time, just as you pointed out.

I agree with you on the priority thing, but I'm leaning in favor of the lowest priority number being applied. If we allowed both moves to be used at different times in the turn depending on their priority, it would open up a lot more variety, but a lot more complexity as well. It wouldn't make the meta awful to play in, but things could get a little aggravating, like Fake Out + Roar shenanigans. Either way, the meta will be very interesting, but the issue of how priority is applied is a big one.

When I saw that Encore + Disable combo it really had me nervous at first thinking it might be too much, but then I did a /ds on the simulator and found that these are the only Pokemon capable of learning both those moves:

It might end up being a very common way to run Alakazam in this metagame, but nothing else besides Alakazam is fast enough to make it viable. No pranksters either *breathes a sigh of relief*.

(I'm basically a PMD superfan btw, so I have no clue how no one has thought of this before. This meta is genius.)

 

[Halliday]

Mienshao @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off

Basically the ultimate pivot. If you're able to pair this up with another Pokemon doing this job, you're capable of flinch+u-turning the opponent to death, without them being able to respond.. Fake out in general is an amazing move in this meta as it allows for a free turn to do anything you want.

 

[Tarontos]

Going simultaneously doesn't change that. Protect keeps you Protected for the turn, the end, not until your next move. You'd have to add a special clause about Protect being banned from links to stop that stuff.

if the moves go simultainusly the priority will change( take on the lowest priority) to prevent things high priority protect moves and fakeout from being used in conjunction with low priority moves.
if you take on the lowest priority of a move used it still allows for priority well balanceing moves that have low prioritys from moving up the chain.

if you have two moves at different times then your issue becomes things like fake/turn with priority flinch making ghost types neccasary and there are even things to deal with that(mega lupony)
to be honest i have no issue with prottect roar because of the probabilty drop of protect, the problem would come from fake/volt/turn. fake roar isn't even that bad because you can't spam it as much as fake turn. i suppose a ban on fake/volt/turn could throreticly fix the issue but that would in my be loss to the game, granted fake turn would still kill stall if it doent have priority, a ghost, or a steadfast mon.

 

[Acast]

Mienshao @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off

Basically the ultimate pivot. If you're able to pair this up with another Pokemon doing this job, you're capable of flinch+u-turning the opponent to death, without them being able to respond.. Fake out in general is an amazing move in this meta as it allows for a free turn to do anything you want.

I can see Infernape and Ambipom taking advantage of the Fake Out + U-turn combo really well. Those two along with Mienshao could cut down entire teams. You could even use Light Ball Pikachu in a similar way with Fake Out and Volt Switch.

The only ways to stop (or at least check) the Fake Out + U-turn strategy that I can see are
1)having hazards already on the field (which won't be likely considering it's smart to lead with the Fake Out+U-turn strategy)
2)Ferrothorn (or a Rocky Helmet holder)
or
3)Ghost types

But since we're talking about relatively fast Pokemon with plenty of ways to deal with Ferrothorn as well as Ghost types, I think a strategy like that might actually be broken. It might be necessary to ban Fake Out from this meta. Does anyone else think so?

 

[Ghoul King]

Another thought: Foresight/Odor Sleuth aren't 100% useless because you can chain them into a Normal or Fighting move. Hi Sableye! Bye Sableye! (really gimmicky, but a neat surprise)

Use Feint as part of your link :)

Dusknoir says hi. Literally only A: Mega Pinsir and B: random Pokemon combining Feint with Odor Sleuth/Foresight are it for hiting a Ghost using Protect+something else if Protect gets its normal priority. (No Scrappy Feinter exists)

Of course it's not my decision, but I think the first two moves should always be linked no matter which one you select to use in battle. That's how it is in the PMD mechanics (not that those mechanics matter much here anyway) and it would also prevent this meta from getting too complicated.

Well, a further question is: what happens a Pokemon gets Encored/Tormented/Disabled/etc?

Fake Out+other stuff

Yeah Fake Out might have to be banned from being a Linked move. (Note that banning it from Linking doesn't automatically mean banning Fake Out per se) Even if it was brought down to 0 priority by being paired with Volt Switch/U-Turn you'd just end up with Scarfed versions of the described sets. (It would only stop Light Ball Pikachu, in other words)

 

[Tarontos]

not fake out
just fake/volt turn

and note at current there are three ways things could work out links have 0 priority, links have the lowest priority, links happen as though we were taking two moves

other options are fake/phase which is essentaly one guarentee phase if the moves are separated other wise its worthless
protect phase could be good as well with over half of all turns gauranteing the ability to phase something if the moves are sepperate other wise again worthless



fake/volt switch raichu is better due to speed and ability to carry a choice scarf with the current set up of low priority
also you missed one other option
protect/protect moves fakeout doesn't work on some one using normal protect neither does u turn so it is possible to play around but this would lead to a lot of 50/50s
a good counter to fake/turn would probably be dusknoir with a rocky helmet, with the pressure effect active you would waste half your fake outs

another way to balance fake/turn would be to limit it to one user, to avoid spaming(either fake out or just the combo fake turn)
but as said above fake boosting might become popular on fast and frail mons see weavile
looking at his competition he is at 125 base speed, nothing to snease at, letting it set up on just about any thing besides talon flame and up interms of speed


with the current set up fake out is not broken because number one it can only be used the first turn your out, number two most of the moves it combos well with ar 0 priority meaning the link has zero priority. banning fake out from linking would eliminate several legitamite uses for it like come in on something your faster than fake/boost to ease set up
or just fake priority to give it some umph. the problem isn't the move (though fake turn needs to go) it's that you guys think it will keep it's priority no matter what it won't do that. eliminating it all to gether would just be a waste and make several other wise really good pokemon( see fake boost ) borderline useless.

really tell me how any move beside fake/volt turn pass is broken?

 

[Ghoul King]

I literally just said that if Fake Out doesn't keep its priority you just give a Scarf to the Fake Out+U-Turn/Volt Switch/Baton Pass movesets to achieve almost the exact same result.