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OU Sceptile
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
Thanks - that's been done. I also mentioned Drain Punch on the SD set as it hits Ferrothorn a lot harder than EQ.
Low Kick is probably the best option here, tbh.
It's probably to take advantage of its Water resistance, but I guess naive isnt bad.
Dclaw is just disgustingly weak on base 110 Atk though.
Sorry, I forgot to make sceptile dragon type.
Running outrage gets more power, but it basically gives fairies a safe switch in, and sceptile is basically dead. tbh, 110 attack is nothing in this meta, and the SD set is probably OO at best... As a fast physical attacker it's just outclassed by so many mons.
Hey, you should probably change the nature on the aaa set to Naive since that's the only one you reference in the set details.
Small nitpick, I don't think anybody mentioned this yet, but this line right here:
this line is said in the Substitute set, but then is also repeated in the All-Out Attacker set. Neither Giga Drain nor Sub is slashed, and I think it was an accident that this line was repeated again in the AAA set. Sorry if I'm out of place here, just wanted to point that out.
Overview
Try to be a bit more concise about Mega Sceptile's pros, namely:
Substitute
Moves
Mention some OHKOes and 2HKOes that Leaf Storm gets. Some notable examples are a 30% chance to 2HKO physically defensive MG Clefable and always 2HKO Unaware Clefable after SR, the OHKO on Landorus, OHKO on AV Azumarill after SR, OHKO on Mega Gyarados (useful to revenge kill +1 M-Dos), OHKO on Mega Manectric, and sure OHKO on Mega Lopunny after two SR rounds. Also, when talking about Energy Ball, explain why someone would want to use it. For example, if you go with Modest, you have a good chance to 2HKO max HP / max SpD Mega Slowbro after a CM. Add some other examples of OHKOes and 2HKOes Energy Ball gets over Giga Drain, and how it can't be taken advantage like Leaf Storm can, allowing Mega Sceptile to be a more reliable cleaner.
Set Details
Mention a Modest nature as an option and some important KOes it enables. For example, you have a 99% chance to 2HKO physically defensive MG Clefable with Leaf Storm. Explain how it becomes harder to MEvolve thouhg, because you can't outspeed important Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, Gengar, Keldeo, etc.
Usage Tips
The stuff you have there are pretty good but there are small separate parts with some repeated info. If when you write it up it's cohesive good, but be careful to not make it overly wordy or superfluous.
Team Options
Don't mention Rotom-W and Lando-T just for their VoltTurn abilities. If that's all they have to offer to Mega Sceptile then they are not good enough partners to get a mention. Mention other things they do for Mega Sceptile, such as checking Pokemon it has trouble with, or setting up hazards to make cleaning up easier. Also, mention strong wallbreakers or lures for the Pokemon that give Sceptile troubles. Every cleaner needs breakers as partners to clean up and Sceptile is no exception.
All-Out Attacker
Moves
Everything i said in the previous set goes for this one as well. Go more in-depth when comparing Leaf Storm to Energy Ball, instead of just saying the latter is more consistent. Furthermore, Earthquake covers SpD Klefki (2HKO where HP Fire can't), SpD Tentacruel (2HKO where even Lead Storm can't), and Magnezone (86% damage minimum), in addition to Heatran, so add those too. Oh, add Jirachi too as a target of EQ. Also, add Skarmory as a target of HP Fire.
Set Details
You need only 176 Speed EVs to outrun Mega Lopunny and Mega Altaria even after the Speed reduction from HP Fire. Mention a Rash / Mild nature and some KOes it achieves.
Usage Tips
What i said before applies here as well.
Team Options
Same as ^.
Checks and Counters
Add Chansey, SR Clefable, Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Doublade, SpD Talonflame, Mega Metagross, and Assault Vest Tornadus-T as checks / counters.
Try to be a bit more concise about Mega Sceptile's pros, namely:
- Fastest Dragon-type in OU, allowing it to revenge kill every other Dragon-type not named Mega Altaria
- Great revenge killer and cleaner, very effective against offensive teams
- Good three attacks coverage, giving it a free slot for some versatility
- Decent check to Electric and Water-types, plus blocks Volt Switch
- Lack of spammable STAB; let's face it, Dragon Pulse is weak and resists to it are everywhere, Leaf Storm drops your SpA and has tons of resists, etc
- Easy to wall unless you are using an offensive team
Substitute
Moves
Mention some OHKOes and 2HKOes that Leaf Storm gets. Some notable examples are a 30% chance to 2HKO physically defensive MG Clefable and always 2HKO Unaware Clefable after SR, the OHKO on Landorus, OHKO on AV Azumarill after SR, OHKO on Mega Gyarados (useful to revenge kill +1 M-Dos), OHKO on Mega Manectric, and sure OHKO on Mega Lopunny after two SR rounds. Also, when talking about Energy Ball, explain why someone would want to use it. For example, if you go with Modest, you have a good chance to 2HKO max HP / max SpD Mega Slowbro after a CM. Add some other examples of OHKOes and 2HKOes Energy Ball gets over Giga Drain, and how it can't be taken advantage like Leaf Storm can, allowing Mega Sceptile to be a more reliable cleaner.
Set Details
Mention a Modest nature as an option and some important KOes it enables. For example, you have a 99% chance to 2HKO physically defensive MG Clefable with Leaf Storm. Explain how it becomes harder to MEvolve thouhg, because you can't outspeed important Pokemon such as Latios, Latias, Gengar, Keldeo, etc.
Usage Tips
The stuff you have there are pretty good but there are small separate parts with some repeated info. If when you write it up it's cohesive good, but be careful to not make it overly wordy or superfluous.
Team Options
Don't mention Rotom-W and Lando-T just for their VoltTurn abilities. If that's all they have to offer to Mega Sceptile then they are not good enough partners to get a mention. Mention other things they do for Mega Sceptile, such as checking Pokemon it has trouble with, or setting up hazards to make cleaning up easier. Also, mention strong wallbreakers or lures for the Pokemon that give Sceptile troubles. Every cleaner needs breakers as partners to clean up and Sceptile is no exception.
All-Out Attacker
Moves
Everything i said in the previous set goes for this one as well. Go more in-depth when comparing Leaf Storm to Energy Ball, instead of just saying the latter is more consistent. Furthermore, Earthquake covers SpD Klefki (2HKO where HP Fire can't), SpD Tentacruel (2HKO where even Lead Storm can't), and Magnezone (86% damage minimum), in addition to Heatran, so add those too. Oh, add Jirachi too as a target of EQ. Also, add Skarmory as a target of HP Fire.
Set Details
You need only 176 Speed EVs to outrun Mega Lopunny and Mega Altaria even after the Speed reduction from HP Fire. Mention a Rash / Mild nature and some KOes it achieves.
Usage Tips
What i said before applies here as well.
Team Options
Same as ^.
Checks and Counters
Add Chansey, SR Clefable, Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Doublade, SpD Talonflame, Mega Metagross, and Assault Vest Tornadus-T as checks / counters.
Ok so I did a lot of what you said - thanks A LOT for the in depth check. One thing I disagreed with was:
1. Modest/Mild Nature: I personally don't think this is worth putting in set details (possibly oo though). Sceptile is mainly good because of its high speed that lets it outspeed stuff like terrakion, keldeo, Gengar, mega diancie, mega metagross, latios, latias, and starmie before it mega evolves and stuff like Alakazam (before it mega evolves), Aerodactyl (before it mega evolves), mega lopunny, and mega manectric after it mega evolves. Outspeeding these things is essential to its niche in ou imho, and running a modest/mild nature kills that.
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Mega Beedrill should be mentioned in C&C as it either outspeeds or speed ties (depending on Sceptiles nature) and easily OHKOs with both STABS
In sets where you don't use a positive speed nature you should mention the downsides such as being outspent by certain megas such as positive speed mega magnetic and Lopunny and the previously mentioned mega beedrill, and neutral speed megas such as mega alakazam and aerodactyl
In sets where you don't use a positive speed nature you should mention the downsides such as being outspent by certain megas such as positive speed mega magnetic and Lopunny and the previously mentioned mega beedrill, and neutral speed megas such as mega alakazam and aerodactyl
Beedrill only reliably checks the Mixed set, as Sceptile can hit it with Dragon Pulse (which can OHKO after Rocks) if it's behind a Sub and risk the Speed tie on the second turn to secure the KO.
252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill: 181-214 (66.7 - 78.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Also, the second part isn't necessary. Sceptile is not recommended to run a neutral Speed nature, plus Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl should be running +Speed natures themselves so they can check the aforementioned threats.
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honestly i'd just go max speed on any and every sceptile variant. I think that protect should be thrown somewhere as an option on the all out attacker set even though technically not an attack lol. probably slashed next to hp fire and i'd also slash focus blast next to eq and give it the alternative spread of max max. atleast in other options. the ability to scout and get a free mega evolve is priceless. sorta like mega zam.
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I don't see the point unless there's a Scarfer or somesuch that you beat with max Speed. The Speed IV you lose from HP Fire makes it impossible to tie with other Sceptile and Beedrill, so you might as well run enough just for Lopunny or a specific target you need to outspeed before Mega Evolving and dump the rest into offenses to maximize your damage output.
EDIT: Running 220 (already adjusted for HP Fire) lets you beat Scarf Heatran, but that's the only remotely relevant thing I can think of.
which is why i put tect over hp fire
kind of agree with aim on this one, the ev spread for the aaa set is looking sub-optimal. it ties with base 135 if carrying hp fire and it doesn't even outspeed thundurus pre-mega ._. (idk if anyone else has caught that). the attack evs are neglible on it as it doesn't secure any 2hkos/ohkos that it hasn't already with that attack investment. an ev spread of 32 atk / 252 sp atk / 224 spd naive would suffice, being able to outspeed scarftar before mega and outspeeds stuff like scarftran and specsoma in rain after. i'd just run max max though since might as well. i find speedtieing against opposing mega scept who might also carry hp fire more beneficial than useless attack invest, but maybe that's just me.
no
80 Atk sceptile Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def : 116-138 (32.8 - 39%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
80 Atk sceptile Iron Tail vs. 4 HP / 0 Def : 146-172 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Iron tail is still pretty weak vs. mega altaria which is the ONLY thing it hits aside from the rare togekiss, and you miss out on valuable coverage options also
Which is why it was suggested for OO. Besides, getting the 2HKO on Offensive variants is good enough to mention since Sceptile outspeeds +1 Mega Altaria unless it runs Jolly.
I'm gonna have to agree with this, but does having 32 Atk evs have any notable advantage over having 32 Def evs. 32 Atk only gives you a slightly better chance to OHKO SpD Tran after being slightly damaged(SR to simulate), but it's still not a favorable chance.
32 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 308-364 (80 - 94.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 296-352 (76.8 - 91.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Letting the Heatran live and Toxic or Lava Plume you and then proceed to switch out which the enemy can use as a sac to grant a teammate a free switch in is obviously bad and is the likely outcome no matter which spread you use, and priority is ubiquitous in OU so putting the 32 evs in Def might be worth at least a mention. Investing the 32 evs in either Atk or Def is mostly arbitrary and I can't really see either choice as being more beneficial than the other, so I think it might as well get a mention in Set Details to put the 32 evs into Def.
ehhh that doesn't really make any sense to me since the whole point we're messing with the ev spread is to find what is the most optimal ev spread since it is almost entirely arbitrary to invest 252 evs into Speed on the AAA set. There's no problem with speed creeping on the AAA set with 224 evs by using 228 but that's a gamble because what if the enemy's AAA MScept has 232 and then you want 236... and thus the loop continues until you hit 252 wherein your AAA MScept will still end up getting outsped by a Substitute MScept anyways. However, as I said before those excess 32 evs are mostly very arbitrary so it might also be worth mentioning in Set Details to run 252 Spe evs to speed creep other AAA MScepts. Imo if you're gonna try to speed creep on other AAA MScepts at all then you might as well go all-out and do 252 evs in Spe in case your enemy is tryin to use 232 evs to be cheeky or some shit lol.
TL;DR:
Standard AAA spread: 32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe, Naive
Set Details mentions: 32 Def / 252 SpA / 224 Spe, Naive and 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Naive
Unless you can justify mega scept being able to survive a 2hko or Ohko from a certain mon under specific logical situations rather than generalized circumstances with like 8 points in defense then I would have to disagree. More often than not, especially with a fast offensively threatening mon like this, a game will have to come down to a crucial speed tie with this case being opposing mega scept carrying hp fire. You said that we're trying to find the most optimal ev spread, not the most arbitrary. The 252 252 spread is just the standard we set for mons that excel with that stat. Heck, I don't take 12 evs out of lati's speed when I run hp fire on it since "why run an extra 12 evs in speed when I can't speed tie with other base 110's in the first place?" We're all going to run max max just to speed tie with other hp fire lati's lol. Same case with gren etc. The only reason someone uses the ev spread they use is because it serves a specific purpose. If you can't provide one then people aren't going to use it, simple as that.
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