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Field Control
- Thread starter Isa Simple
- Start date
Thing is, if I ban TR, Tailwind and other shit becomes over powered. Trick Room will likely be common but its been discussed that you can't have too many pokemon setting up Trick Room on the same team. So you can play around it by having your own TR setter to cancel out TR, or just kill their setters.
Worst case scenario is that TR is the meta. Which really isn't that bad, it'll just mean that you have to make your TR team better than everyone else's by best utilising all the other nicknames.
And like Mamp said, I'm not banning anything until this is coded anyway.
I said 'Consider'. It's a word in English.
One strategy out of many startegies possible being abused is exactly what 'bad' is. But I guess you could wait for more opinions.
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Lol you can't just cut what I said in half to make your point more valid xD
What I'm saying is even if TR is almost everywhere there will still be plenty of diverse strategies within TR regarding weather and terrain. Not to mention their is still TR sweepers and TR stall.
Fake Out for stalling Trick Room, your own Trick Pokemon to switch in and disable Trick Room, priority to bypass Trick Room in general (Prankster Nature Power with a Terrain name gives no fucks and can do any of Grass, Fairy, or Electric, providing excellent coverage against pretty much any possible Trick Room abuser), phazing moves are unaffected by Trick Room and can potentially force-switch in another Pokemon named Trick to un-set the Trick Room, Protect for stalling Trick Room, and just having bulky Pokemon that can take a hit -the meta may well shift away from fast fragile sweepers, but that's not the same thing as saying Trick Room will be overpowered nonsense.
Personally I'd enjoy a meta that discourages fast sweepers. I can think of a number of metas that have heavily encouraged those, such as Metagamiate. I can't think of any that actively discouraged that particular niche, prior to this.
Personally I'd enjoy a meta that discourages fast sweepers. I can think of a number of metas that have heavily encouraged those, such as Metagamiate. I can't think of any that actively discouraged that particular niche, prior to this.
slowmons
Well Ghoul King I was about to make a post like that myself but now I don't have too <3
In regards having your own Trick Pokemon to switch in and disable Trick Room, I think Analytic Starmie named Trick could be quite cool in that it could switch in and disable TR, then out speed all the TR sweepers, if they switch again to reset TR you get an Analytic boosted attack, and if the opponent isn't using Trick Room you will get Analytics power boost far more frequently assuming you can take the hits.
This probably isn't the best counter TR setter but off the top of my head it seams pretty cool.
In regards having your own Trick Pokemon to switch in and disable Trick Room, I think Analytic Starmie named Trick could be quite cool in that it could switch in and disable TR, then out speed all the TR sweepers, if they switch again to reset TR you get an Analytic boosted attack, and if the opponent isn't using Trick Room you will get Analytics power boost far more frequently assuming you can take the hits.
This probably isn't the best counter TR setter but off the top of my head it seams pretty cool.
I think the fun thing about Trick Room is that if a "Trick" Pokemon gets forced out (Mega Camerupt by, say, Azumarill), then it can't switch in well for another few turns, thanks to the new Trick Room cancelling out the current. It would also cause Trick Room teams to be total chaos against each other.
I am uncertain about Misty Terrain in particular, but other terrain moves boost the power of moves of their respective type by 1.5x when used by Pokémon on the ground.
Not Misty. It only reduces Dragon. It does have the most useful side effect, though, since Leftovers healing on Grassy is nice but not as useful as no status, and Electric's no-sleep shouldn't even be compared.
A big thing to consider in this meta is counter play.
You shouldn't just be setting yourself up, you should also be thinking about how you might screw over your opponent.
I already mentioned how Analytic Starmie could potentially be a good check to Trick Room teams but there are plenty more things to think about.
Hail.
Hail may seem fairly useless as a weather as it is outclassed and very few things can abuse it. But in this meta that may be its selling point. Hail could be the official anti-weather weather. Say you had a Trick Room team or something and weren't abusing your own weather, it could be handy to have a Hail setter to deal with opposing weather.
I'm currently thinking Thick Fat Walrein would be cool as it resists water and fire, the most spam able types for rain and sun teams (and has Blizzard of course). However Solar beam and Thunder are common in the given weather, Solar Beam is useless once the Hail starts and Walrein can work its way around Thunder. Given that you're not running weather you probably have something like Trick Room in which case Walrein can lock stuff into water moves with a fast Encore in TR before they can Thunder your ass. (Speaking of which, in Trick Room, Wobbuffet has a really fast Encore which could be quite nice for it). Or you could use an Ice body pokemon, which Walrein is actually quite could with given its bulk, if you're willing to give up Thick Fat.
Also given that Heal Block could be quite could against stall but doesn't really boost your team, making it hard to find a spot for it. You could run a Heal Block pokemon along side a Grassy Terrain pokemon in order to prevent the opponent from taking advantage of the lefties effect.
As for Screen counters the obvious things are strong Defoggers, but I personally think it would be cool to see Brick Break make its way into the meta as the Fighting type generally lacks utility. The most powerful Brick Break in the game belong to Mega Hera, Medi and Luc. The strongest non mega Brick Break would probably go to the likes of Conkeldurr or something. Another notable Brick Breaker is Pangoro due to having scrappy. Does Mega Lopunny get Brick Break?
That's all I've got for now but counter play is definitely fun to think about :D
You shouldn't just be setting yourself up, you should also be thinking about how you might screw over your opponent.
I already mentioned how Analytic Starmie could potentially be a good check to Trick Room teams but there are plenty more things to think about.
Hail.
Hail may seem fairly useless as a weather as it is outclassed and very few things can abuse it. But in this meta that may be its selling point. Hail could be the official anti-weather weather. Say you had a Trick Room team or something and weren't abusing your own weather, it could be handy to have a Hail setter to deal with opposing weather.
I'm currently thinking Thick Fat Walrein would be cool as it resists water and fire, the most spam able types for rain and sun teams (and has Blizzard of course). However Solar beam and Thunder are common in the given weather, Solar Beam is useless once the Hail starts and Walrein can work its way around Thunder. Given that you're not running weather you probably have something like Trick Room in which case Walrein can lock stuff into water moves with a fast Encore in TR before they can Thunder your ass. (Speaking of which, in Trick Room, Wobbuffet has a really fast Encore which could be quite nice for it). Or you could use an Ice body pokemon, which Walrein is actually quite could with given its bulk, if you're willing to give up Thick Fat.
Also given that Heal Block could be quite could against stall but doesn't really boost your team, making it hard to find a spot for it. You could run a Heal Block pokemon along side a Grassy Terrain pokemon in order to prevent the opponent from taking advantage of the lefties effect.
As for Screen counters the obvious things are strong Defoggers, but I personally think it would be cool to see Brick Break make its way into the meta as the Fighting type generally lacks utility. The most powerful Brick Break in the game belong to Mega Hera, Medi and Luc. The strongest non mega Brick Break would probably go to the likes of Conkeldurr or something. Another notable Brick Breaker is Pangoro due to having scrappy. Does Mega Lopunny get Brick Break?
That's all I've got for now but counter play is definitely fun to think about :D
Talking about wallrein, keeping it Ice Body with "Hail" name is alone giving a good promise for rise of stallrein, now with double the nuinsance.
I'm also rather intrested on seeing electrict terrain mega manetrict cause I'd imagine those volt switches to seriously hurt when the terrain is up, infact electrict terrain combined with rain setupper to spam thunder could be some big dommage.
ttly thinken of making thunderdome team when this comes playable.
I'm also rather intrested on seeing electrict terrain mega manetrict cause I'd imagine those volt switches to seriously hurt when the terrain is up, infact electrict terrain combined with rain setupper to spam thunder could be some big dommage.
ttly thinken of making thunderdome team when this comes playable.
canno
formerly The Reptile
Time for Rotom posting!
Lets start with the topic of Hail with out man Rotom-Fridge! Fridgetom is cool because its a neat Hailmon that can abuse STAB BoltBeam and can Volt Switch, something not a lot of other Hailmons can claim. Because of Volt Switch you can probably get away with Choice Scarf or Specs rather than an Icy Rock. Alternatively, Gravity is much more reliable and lets you run Thunder. Gravity (asaik) can't be removed by simply laying down Gravity like Trick Room. However, Gravity makes you even more susceptible to Hazards and removes a key immunity to Ground.
Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Wash can run Sun and Rain respectively. They both have access to Volt Switch and strong Electric STAB. Rotom-Wash benefits evens more form rain because it can fire off Thunders, although it doesn't have to run it due to making it weather dependent. Rotom-Heat, while not having access to Solar Beam to fry Water-types, it has STAB Electric attacks instead.
Rotom-Mow is a strang Grass-type, as it can't abuse Grassy Terrain itself. Rotoms in general can't abuse Electric Terrain themselves. However, Rotom-Mow has 2 neat options. The first one is Rain, as it can use Thunder. Rotom-Mow could be a neat hit-and-run Pokemon with Thunder and Leaf Storm. However, if you want to go a more defensive approach and don't want to get shrekled by other weathers, Water Sport is another option. While it doesn't grant reliable Thunder, it does let it remove its Fire weakness in a form that cannot be negated.
ROTOM-FAN CAN NOW RUN MAGNET RISE WITH AIR BALLOON. ULTIMATE. GROUND. IMMUNITY. Another neat thing it can run is Mud Sport, as it gives it a resistance to Electric. Then there's the obvious Rain-for-Thunder shenanigans. However, it is generally outclassed by other Electric/Flying mons like Thundy and Zapdos, so meh.
Finally, they can all run Tailwind, Reflect, or Light Screen to good effect thanks to their access to Volt Switch and decent enough bulk.
Lets start with the topic of Hail with out man Rotom-Fridge! Fridgetom is cool because its a neat Hailmon that can abuse STAB BoltBeam and can Volt Switch, something not a lot of other Hailmons can claim. Because of Volt Switch you can probably get away with Choice Scarf or Specs rather than an Icy Rock. Alternatively, Gravity is much more reliable and lets you run Thunder. Gravity (asaik) can't be removed by simply laying down Gravity like Trick Room. However, Gravity makes you even more susceptible to Hazards and removes a key immunity to Ground.
Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Wash can run Sun and Rain respectively. They both have access to Volt Switch and strong Electric STAB. Rotom-Wash benefits evens more form rain because it can fire off Thunders, although it doesn't have to run it due to making it weather dependent. Rotom-Heat, while not having access to Solar Beam to fry Water-types, it has STAB Electric attacks instead.
Rotom-Mow is a strang Grass-type, as it can't abuse Grassy Terrain itself. Rotoms in general can't abuse Electric Terrain themselves. However, Rotom-Mow has 2 neat options. The first one is Rain, as it can use Thunder. Rotom-Mow could be a neat hit-and-run Pokemon with Thunder and Leaf Storm. However, if you want to go a more defensive approach and don't want to get shrekled by other weathers, Water Sport is another option. While it doesn't grant reliable Thunder, it does let it remove its Fire weakness in a form that cannot be negated.
ROTOM-FAN CAN NOW RUN MAGNET RISE WITH AIR BALLOON. ULTIMATE. GROUND. IMMUNITY. Another neat thing it can run is Mud Sport, as it gives it a resistance to Electric. Then there's the obvious Rain-for-Thunder shenanigans. However, it is generally outclassed by other Electric/Flying mons like Thundy and Zapdos, so meh.
Finally, they can all run Tailwind, Reflect, or Light Screen to good effect thanks to their access to Volt Switch and decent enough bulk.
Grassy Mega Sceptile for the ultimate in painful Leaf Storms? Also Grassy Specs Whimsicott is sweep.
Why Whimsicott, you ask? Well…
Grassy (Whimsicott) w/ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nature Power
- Filler
- Filler
- Filler
Grass isn't the strongest attacking type, for sure, but 135 base power STAB special priority sounds suitably frightening, even if it is off of only 77 base Special Attack.
Or on a Sun team you can do this...
Grassy (Whimsicott) w/ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Unfortunately, this only gives you 4 turns of priority Energy Ball after setup, but your damage output is going to be pretty nuts for all 4 of those turns. Additionally, Grassy Terrain helps offset Life Orb recoil, and with this much raw power you're likely 2HKOing most things that aren't Fire type regardless.
Why Whimsicott, you ask? Well…
Grassy (Whimsicott) w/ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nature Power
- Filler
- Filler
- Filler
Grass isn't the strongest attacking type, for sure, but 135 base power STAB special priority sounds suitably frightening, even if it is off of only 77 base Special Attack.
Or on a Sun team you can do this...
Grassy (Whimsicott) w/ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Nature Power
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Unfortunately, this only gives you 4 turns of priority Energy Ball after setup, but your damage output is going to be pretty nuts for all 4 of those turns. Additionally, Grassy Terrain helps offset Life Orb recoil, and with this much raw power you're likely 2HKOing most things that aren't Fire type regardless.
How's this for a dangerous field effect if it gets added
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fairy_Lock_(move)
"By locking down the battlefield, the user keeps all Pokémon from fleeing during the next turn."
Only lasts one turn, but it is a field effect. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how valuable trappers could be in this meta to remove problematic inducers from the opponents team. Well, with this, anything named Fairy suddenly has a nerfed Shadow Tag. Can also possibly backfire, as it also prevents the user from switching, so if the opponent predicts your trapper switching in, they can switch to a counter and turn your trap against you.
(seriously GF, this is what Shadow Tag should have been in the first place)
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fairy_Lock_(move)
"By locking down the battlefield, the user keeps all Pokémon from fleeing during the next turn."
Only lasts one turn, but it is a field effect. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how valuable trappers could be in this meta to remove problematic inducers from the opponents team. Well, with this, anything named Fairy suddenly has a nerfed Shadow Tag. Can also possibly backfire, as it also prevents the user from switching, so if the opponent predicts your trapper switching in, they can switch to a counter and turn your trap against you.
(seriously GF, this is what Shadow Tag should have been in the first place)
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Well I guess it does sound like a field effect, even if it is very unique in its 1 turn thingy. So I may as well add this to the op.
Basically found it while trolling through Veekun's search of moves that affect the entire field, opponent's field, or user's field. Notably, Heal Block is not on any of those lists, and is instead classified as affecting all opponents, implying switching may remove it. Someone may need to test if Heal Block is still in effect when the opponent switches out, as if not, it is not a field effect.
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?damage_class=status&target=12
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?damage_class=status&target=6
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?damage_class=status&target=4
EDIT: If you want to get really cheeky, add Mat Block for free switch-ins =P
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?damage_class=status&target=12
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?damage_class=status&target=6
http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?damage_class=status&target=4
EDIT: If you want to get really cheeky, add Mat Block for free switch-ins =P
Yeah I need to test Heal Block because Bulbapedia is giving me mixed messaged in saying:
"For five turns, the user prevents the opposing team from using any moves, Abilities, or held items that recover HP."
BW-ORAS
"For five turns, the user prevents the opposing team from using any moves, Abilities, or held items that recover HP."
BW-ORAS
canno
formerly The Reptile
From that list....
- Ion Deluge
- Fairy Lock
- Happy Hour
- Mat Block / Crafty Shield
- Quick Guard and Wide Guard
Wide Guard does block spread moves in singles.
Quick Guard blocks Prankster-boosted moves in Gen VI, while Wide Guard does not block spread Status moves, the end, because that would make too much sense.
I don't think it does, but it doesn't actually matter because Mat Block is a 100% perfect replacement to Wide Guard as a nickname if they're both included in this for some bizarre reason.
I'm not too keen on adding Mat Block as a free switch in, in the majority of occasions (or all occasions if you have Magic Bounce) is something witch you are supposed to gain through good predictions, and it may be a bit broken. If enough people want me to add it I will though, and we'll see how it goes once this is coded.
The other moves just seem too gimmicky and I doubt they will get any usage, except perhaps Crafty-Shield. But again if people really want me to add them I will.
The other moves just seem too gimmicky and I doubt they will get any usage, except perhaps Crafty-Shield. But again if people really want me to add them I will.
Fairy Lock and Crafty Shield would be neat, I think.