Garbodor

[Tokyo Tom]

GP [2/2] - Winry. / Weebl

[Overview]

<p>Garbodor finds a small niche in BW OU by being a solid lead entry hazard stacker thanks to the Weak Armor ability and its access to Toxic Spikes, Spikes, and Explosion, which allows it to pseudo-spinblock. Offensively oriented Toxic Spikes support is quite valuable in the current metagame; for example, the common sand balance builds are very susceptible to Toxic Spikes, barring those with Pokemon such as Amoonguss, which Garbodor can set up on. Unlike Froslass and Smeargle, which share a similar niche, Garbodor has decent bulk and more utility during the mid-game, when it can absorb Toxic Spikes on your side of the field that can severely hamper the hyper offensive builds that Garbodor should be used with. Additionally, Garbodor carries Clear Smog to prevent opposing sweepers from setting up on it. Finally, Garbodor's biggest selling point as an entry hazard lead is its ability to increase its Speed with Weak Armor, allowing it to set up multiple layers of entry hazards against common opposing leads such as Garchomp.</p>


[SET]
name: Lead Spiker
move 1: Toxic Spikes
move 2: Spikes
move 3: Explosion
move 4: Clear Smog
item: Focus Sash
ability: Weak Armor
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly Nature

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Garbodor's only niche in OU is fulfilled thanks to its access to Toxic Spikes and Spikes as well a useful ability in Weak Armor, increasing its Speed every time it is struck by a physical attack, allowing it more opportunities to set up entry hazards. The next mandatory move on Garbodor's set is Explosion, which provides it the ability to pseudo-spinblock against slower spinners while dealing a solid chunk of damage and allowing your next Pokemon to enter the field without taking direct damage. The last moveslot allows Garbodor to prevent opposing setup, as many of the offensively inclined teams Garbodor fits onto do not enjoy responding to boosted sweepers. Clear Smog has the benefit of dealing damage, allowing Garbodor to break the foe's Focus Sash or Multiscale while negating their stat changes, but fails against Pokemon such as Substitute + Dragon Dance Dragonite and Scizor, which either have bulky Substitutes that can take a Clear Smog and are immune to Clear Smog, respectively. Therefore, it is imperative for the Garbodor user to prepare answers to these Pokemon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Maximum Speed investment with a Jolly nature allows Garbodor to fulfill its role to the best of its abilities, outspeeding and setting up a layer against common leads such as Custap Berry Skarmory and Focus Sash Breloom before they can Taunt or Spore it, respectively. Most of the rest of the EVs are put into HP to give Garbodor some bulk and allow it to have some mid-game relevance, whether it be absorbing Toxic Spikes or setting up more entry hazards on Pokemon it walls with its decent defensive typing. 248 HP EVs are used instead of 252 EVs, minimizing any damage Garbodor might take from hazards. This HP investment also allows Garbodor to avoid KOs from certain Pokemon, such as the 2HKO from uninvested Ninetales's Flamethrower in sun and the OHKO from uninvested Hippowdon's Earthquake after sand damage.</p>

<p>As a lead, Garbodor is generally self-sufficient and supports its team more than it needs to be supported. Any fast Pokemon that provides good offensive presence and appreciates the entry hazards Garbodor sets up should be used alongside Garbodor. Choice Scarf Jirachi appreciates Toxic Spikes to help wear down foes in conjunction with Iron Head, and it can also outspeed and beat Pokemon such as lead Terrakion or offensive Starmie, which can beat Garbodor. Alakazam is another Pokemon that appreciates extra entry hazard damage on its foes and can also threaten any Poison-types that may want to absorb Garbodor's Toxic Spikes. Because of its Magic Guard ability, Alakazam also doesn't mind any entry hazards on its side of the field, which is beneficial, as Garbodor can't always prevent opposing entry hazards from being set up. Offensive Starmie appreciates entry hazards to get more KOs with the switches it forces, and it can also spin away entry hazards on your side of the field for your team. Finally, offensive spinblockers such as Gengar and Cofagrigus are good partners for Garbodor that appreciate Spikes and Toxic Spikes support to improve their somewhat mediocre damage outputs.</p>


[Other Options]

<p>Rock Blast with maximum attack investment can be used to prevent Gengar from freely setting up Substitutes against Garbodor; preventing Gengar from getting behind a Substitute is invaluable for offense. Rock Blast also allows Garbodor to threaten fast Taunt leads such as Froslass or Aerodactyl, who could otherwise freely set up their own entry hazards against Garbodor. This would typically be used over Clear Smog but could also be used over Spikes or Toxic Spikes if your team does not need them. However, this requires a lower investment in bulk, hampering Garbodor's ability to set entry hazards against a variety of other foes. Garbodor also has access to Sunny Day and Rain Dance, which could be used to replace the opposing weather condition, and has the bulk to hang around until the mid-game to use them.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Although many Pokemon are capable of KOing Garbodor, not many can prevent it from accomplishing its role as an entry hazard setter. Starmie is the biggest threat to Garbodor, as it outspeeds Garbodor and thus can spin away Garbodor's entry hazards before it can Explode. Forretress is another Rapid Spin user that is a pain for Garbodor, as it takes little to no damage from Garbodor's attacks and can set up its own entry hazards. Even though Garbodor is able to pseudo-spinblock against Forretress with Explosion, Forretress will still be at a sufficient amount of health to possibly use Rapid Spin later in the game.</p>

<p>Fast Taunt leads such as Terrakion, Froslass, and Aerodactyl, while uncommon, can outspeed Garbodor and prevent it from setting up entry hazards. Additionally, these Pokemon can set up their own entry hazards while taking little damage in return from Explosion.</p>

 

[Oglemi]

ur gonna have to format this in the past gen way, see the format here http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cacturne-nu-revamp.3501676/

 

[Alfalfa]

This set has big issues with Specially-based Pokemon that tend to be used as leads, especially Ninetales and Politoed. Hippowdon, while not a special attacker, can hit Garbodor with Earthquake, bring it down to its Sash, and let it die from sandstorm damage.

Forretress can stall you out, as it can spin away your hazards, is immune to Gunk Shot, and takes very little from Explosion. Donphan is in a similar boat, but Explosion does hurt a bit.

EDIT: You outspeed Politoed, but Ninetales is a problem.

 

[col49]

i actually don't think that's constructive criticism, just a chain of facts o_o also, somewhat of a 'bubble logic' kind of deal regarding opposing hazard setters, since the opponent doesn't always lead with the spinners you mention, meaning that typically garbodor can grab a layer as they come in, boom to break sturdy, then follow up with a pokemon capable of threatening them in turn.

anywho, since i guess i was the one to start using this pokemon in the tier, half-jokingly or no, i'll mention what i can. first and fore-most, offensively incorporated toxic spikes are really good rn, since it cuts into the lifespan of sand balance builds that are thrown about everywhere nowadays (sans those with amoonguss, which is, somewhat ironically, garbo food), can do things like force venu in earlier in the game than it'd like or force crucial sun members like tales, donphan, etc. to get status'ed, and so forth. i initially would've thought that qwilfish would have filled this role better (having access to taunt, generally better defensive typing, and the utility offered by intimidate), but things like electric neutrality (which prevents stuff like rotom-w volt switch -> sand inducer from restricting it to 1 layer), as well as weak armor allowing it to two layers v.weatherless offense leads like chomper (don't think lead terrak has been good for a while, both due to current meta state and opportunity cost of running over other terrak variants) gives it a slight niche here, albeit a narrow one.

anywho, i feel the most optimal set for it to be running is max hp / 4 def / max spe, jolly, w/haze > gunk shot. the primary issue i've had when using garbodor is its tendency to concede set-up, in one shape or forme, and while explosion can restrict the opponent to 1 boost, it does in turn force an offensively inclined team to responded to a boosted sweeper, which isn't something you want no matter how you look at it. haze allows you to set up hazards into, say, a lead-off dnite (or whatever pokemon you so choose, just something that has the capacity to either play as a boosting sweeper or a non-boosting breaker of some kind), without having to make the read that it's banded rather than dd, and therefore forcing you to gunk shot as he dd's, then explode, etc. etc. max hp is nice here b/c explosion is there mostly for the utility of self-spinblocking vs.slower spinners, as well as breaking sashes, and this allows not only for some potential mid-game play v.balance, but also some choice utility vs.sand. for instance, with the inclusion of sand damage, [spdef] rotom-w volt switch into scarftar stone edge needs some higher-end rolls to ko, meaning that you can potential snag 2 layers off what one might otherwise assume to be a fairly standard hazard-stifling procedure (and one that works well against similar spike leads, such as froslass), providing a significant momentum swing in the garbodor user's favour. this set will concede hazards, yes, and that is unfortunate, but it's a necessary evil of the 'mon, one that should ideally be paid off by the hazard support it provides in turn.

i'd mention max atk w/rock blast as a means to prevent gengar from subbing up on you freely, as well as something to apply pressure to froslass (it can ohko through sash, but only w/5 hits, so eh), as well as clear smog for a non-explosion means of breaking sashes while providing similar utility as haze, but of course it gets het by stuff like sd scizor, subdd nite, etc., and isn't that great here. zam is an excellent partner here, being not only great with spikes support, but one that isn't heavily impacted by garbodor's tendency to concede hazards, as well as being able to push a solid associative risk on poison-types looking to come in and absorb the tspikes. i also really like specs / cm+lum keld with this, since it can force in stuff like rain tenta to take nice damage (benefitting the player who chooses to forgo leading garbo), as well as stuff like amoonguss from sand balance, who concedes spikes to it. furthermore, it really appreciates having tspikes up to push through stuff like gastrodon, which is steadily picking up as sand's keld switch-in of choice. garchomp is, in my honest option, the best sr supporter for this 'mon, and most spikes leads really; it doesn't concede breathing room to really any singular pokemon, sans mew, reuniclus (if no sd), and lando / gliscor (if no dm), and it has the capacity to significantly threaten basically every notable spinner in the tier to some degree. i mostly ran either a bulkier rh variant or a lo mixed variant w/dm, depending on the build of the remaining team, but there's like room for experimentation here.

gl on reppin magic mike g, i believe in u

 

[Alfalfa]

i actually don't think that's constructive criticism, just a chain of facts o_o

Ninetales and Hippowdon are rather common leads, so as to get the weather down from turn one. I think mentioning them is important. I mentioned Forretress and Donphan because they beat Garbodor and remove all of his hazards away.

Maximum HP on Garbodor does help though, as now, it avoids the OHKO from Hippowdon's Earthquake after Sand damage completely, as well as a 2HKO from defensive Ninetales' Flamethrower.

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Garbodor: 282-332 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garbodor: 282-332 (93.6 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (slight chance you will survive after sand, but incredibly small)

0 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor in Sun: 153-181 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor in Sun: 153-181 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[McMeghan]

gave it a full read and i didn't catch anything that should be corrected

quality checked i guess? or smth like that!:!

 

[Tokyo Tom]

Thank you!

With that I think I have enough feedback to put this into the CopyEditing phase

 

[Winry]

I'll check this

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<p>Garbodor finds a small niche in B2W2 OU by being a solid lead entry hazard stacker with its access to both kinds of Spikes, Weak Armor, and Explosion to pseudo-spinblock. Offensively-oriented Toxic Spikes are quite valuable in the current metagame; (semi) - (remove) for example, the common Sand Balance team (I assume this is what you mean) builds are very susceptible to them, barring those with Pokemon such as Amoonguss, which Garbodor can set up on. Unlike Froslass or Smeargle, who which share a similar niche, Garbodor has decent bulk and more mid-game (add hyphen) utility, where it can absorb opposing Toxic Spikes that which can severely hamper the hyper offensive builds that Garbodor should be used with. Additionally, it carries Clear Smog and Haze to prevent opposing sweepers from setting up on it. Finally, Garbodor's biggest selling point as an entry hazard lead is its ability to increase its Speed with Weak Armor, allowing it to set multiple layers against common opposing leads like such as Garchomp.</p>


[SET]
name: Lead Stacker
move 1: Toxic Spikes
move 2: Spikes
move 3: Explosion
move 4: Haze / Clear Smog
ability: Weak Armor
item: Focus Sash
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly Nature

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Garbodor's only niche in OU is its access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes as well a useful ability in Weak Armor. This increases its Speed every time it is struck by a physical attack, allowing you it more opportunities to set up entry hazards. The next mandatory move in Garbodor's set is Explosion, which provides it the ability to pseudo-spinblock slower spinners while dealing a solid chunk of damage, (RC) and allowing your next Pokemon to enter the field unharmed. The last slot allows Garbodor to prevent opposing setup (remove hyphen), as many of the offensively-inclined team builds Garbodor fits onto do not enjoy responding to boosted sweepers. Clear Smog has the benefit of dealing damage and allows Garbodor to break Focus Sashes or Multiscale while negating boosts, but fails against Pokemon such as Sub DD Substitute Dragon Dance Dragonite or Scizor, which are either have bulky Substitutes or are immune to Clear Smog, (AC) respectively. Since Because (since refers to time) both of these Pokemon are common in the current metagame, Haze is generally preferred to prevent these Pokemon from setting up and forcing them to KO Garbodor without any boosts.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Maximum Speed investment with a Jolly nature allows Garbodor to fulfill its role to the best of its abilities, outspeeding common leads such as Custap Berry Skarmory or Focus Sash Breloom before they can Taunt or Spore you Garbodor, (AC) respectively. The rest of the EVs are put into HP to give Garbodor some bulk and allow it to have some mid-game (add hyphen) relevance, whether it be absorbing Toxic Spikes or setting up more entry hazards on Pokemon it walls with its decent defensive typing. Max HP also allows you it to avoid KOs by certain Pokemon, such as a 2HKO from uninvested Ninetales's Flamethrower in sun or an OHKO from uninvested Hippowdon's Earthquake after sand damage.</p>

<p>As a lead, Garbodor is generally self-sufficient, and supports its team more than it needs supporting. Any fast Pokemon that provides good offensive presence and appreciate the extra entry hazards should be used alongside Garbodor. Choice Scarf Jirachi appreciates Toxic Spikes to help wear down opponents foes (opponents refers to the players, not the opposing Pokemon) in conjunction with Iron Head, and it can also outspeed and beat Pokemon like such as lead Terrakion or offensive Starmie, (AC) which that can beat Garbodor. Alakazam is another Pokemon that appreciates extra entry hazard damage on its opponents foes, (RC) and can also threaten any Poison-types that may want to absorb Garbodor's Toxic Spikes. Because of its Magic Guard ability, Alakazam also doesn't mind any entry hazards on its side of the field, (AC) but Garbodor may concede, because it can't prevent opposing entry hazards from being set up. Offensive Starmie appreciates entry hazards to get more KOs with the switches it forces, and it also can also spin away opposing entry hazards on your side of the field for your team. Finally, offensive spinblockers such as Gengar or Cofagrigus are good partners for Garbodor to spin-block, (RC) and both that appreciate Spikes and Toxic Spikes support to improve their somewhat mediocre damage outputs.</p>


[Other Options]

<p>Rock Blast can be used to prevent Gengar from getting a free Substitute, which is invaluable for offense. This would typically be used over Clear Smog / or Haze, but could also be used over Spikes or Toxic Spikes if your team does not need them. Garbodor also has access to Sunny Day and Rain Dance, (AC) which could nullify the opposing weather, and has the bulk to hang around to mid-game (hyphen) to use them.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Although many Pokemon are capable of KOing Garbodor, not many can prevent it from accomplishing its role as an entry hazard setter. Starmie is the biggest threat to Garbodor, as it outspeeds and thus can spin away Garbodor's entry hazards before it can explode. Forretress is another Rapid Spinner user that is a pain for Garbodor, as it takes little to no damage from Garbodor's attacks and can lay set up its own entry hazards. Even though Garbodor is able to pseudo-spinblock Forretress with Explosion, Forretress will still be at sufficient health to possibly use Rapid Spin later in the game.</p>

<p>Fast Taunt leads such as Terrakion, Froslass, and Aerodactyl, while uncommon, can outspeed Garbodor and prevent it from laying its setting up entry hazards. Additionally, these Pokemon can set up their own entry hazards while taking little damage in return from Explosion.</p>

1/2

 

[Weebl]

add/(un)Capitalize
remove
(comments)

check

[Overview]

<p>Garbodor finds a small niche in B2W2 (Is this necessary to specify? As far as I know, BW OU is a dead metagame, and BW OU by default refers to B2W2 OU. Hell, this subforum is even called "BW OU Analyses." I doubt it's necessary or standard.) OU by being a solid lead entry hazard stacker with thanks to the Weak Armor ability and its access to both kinds of Spikes, (AC) Toxic Spikes, Weak Armor, and Explosion, (AC) which allows it to pseudo-spinblock. Offensively- (remove hyphen) oriented Toxic Spikes support is are quite valuable in the current metagame; for example, the common sand balance builds are very susceptible to them Toxic Spikes, barring those with Pokemon such as Amoonguss, which Garbodor can set up on. Unlike Froslass or and Smeargle, which share a similar niche, Garbodor has decent bulk and more mid-game utility during the mid-game, where when it can absorb opposing Toxic Spikes on your side of the field that can severely hamper the hyper offensive builds that Garbodor should be used with. Additionally, it Garbodor carries Clear Smog to prevent opposing sweepers from setting up on it. Finally, Garbodor's biggest selling point as an entry hazard lead is its ability to increase its Speed with Weak Armor, allowing it to set up multiple layers against common opposing leads such as Garchomp.</p>


[SET]
name: Lead Spiker
move 1: Toxic Spikes (This doesn't reflect the order you talk about them in the Overview and Set Comments. Either change the order in all other applicable instances to Toxic Spikes then Spikes or switch move 1 and move 2 in your Set.)
move 2: Spikes
move 3: Explosion
move 4: Clear Smog
item: Focus Sash
ability: Weak Armor
item: Focus Sash
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly Nature

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Garbodor's only niche in OU is fulfilled thanks to its access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes as well a useful ability in Weak Armor. This, (AC) increases its Speed every time it is struck by a physical attack, allowing it more opportunities to set up entry hazards. The next mandatory move in on Garbodor's set is Explosion, which provides it the ability to pseudo-spinblock against slower spinners while dealing a solid chunk of damage and allowing your next Pokemon to enter the field without taking direct damage unharmed. The last moveslot allows Garbodor to prevent opposing setup, as many of the offensively-(remove hyphen)inclined team builds Garbodor fits onto do not enjoy responding to boosted sweepers. Clear Smog has the benefit of dealing damage, allowing Garbodor to break the foe's Focus Sashes or Multiscale while negating opposing their stat changes boosts, but fails against Pokemon such as Substitute + Dragon Dance Dragonite or and Scizor, which either have bulky Substitutes that can take a Clear Smog and or are immune to Clear Smog, respectively. Therefore, it is imperative for the Garbodor user to prepare answers to these Pokemon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Maximum Speed investment with a Jolly nature allows Garbodor to fulfill its role to the best of its abilities, outspeeding and setting up a layer against common leads such as Custap Berry Skarmory or and Focus Sash Breloom before they can Taunt or Spore it Garbodor, respectively. The Most of the rest of the EVs are put into HP to give Garbodor some bulk and allow it to have some mid-game relevance, whether it be absorbing Toxic Spikes or setting up more entry hazards on Pokemon it walls with its decent defensive typing. (Put a bit in here about the 8 Defense EVs and why you don't have 252 HP EVs.) Max HP also allows it Garbodor to avoid KOs by from certain Pokemon, such as a the 2HKO from uninvested Ninetales's Flamethrower in sun or and the an OHKO from uninvested Hippowdon's Earthquake after sand damage.</p>

<p>As a lead, Garbodor is generally self-sufficient, (RC) and supports its team more than it needs to be supported supporting. (subjective; it uses an active voice-passive voice duality) Any fast Pokemon that provides good offensive presence and appreciates the extra entry hazards Garbodor sets up should be used alongside Garbodor. Choice Scarf Jirachi appreciates Toxic Spikes to help wear down foes in conjunction with Iron Head, and it can also outspeed and beat Pokemon such as lead Terrakion or offensive Starmie, which can beat Garbodor. Alakazam is another Pokemon that appreciates extra entry hazard damage on its foes and can also threaten any Poison-types that may want to absorb Garbodor's Toxic Spikes. Because of its Magic Guard ability, Alakazam also doesn't mind any entry hazards on its side of the field, which is beneficial, as Garbodor can't always prevent opposing entry hazards from being set up. Offensive Starmie appreciates entry hazards to get more KOs with the switches it forces, and it can also spin away entry hazards on your side of the field for your team. Finally, offensive spinblockers such as Gengar or and Cofagrigus are good partners for Garbodor that appreciate Spikes and Toxic Spikes support to improve their somewhat mediocre damage outputs.</p>


[Other Options]

<p>Rock Blast can be used to prevent Gengar from getting freely setting up a free Substitute against Garbodor,; preventing Gengar from getting behind a Substitute which is invaluable for offense. This would typically be used over Clear Smog or (Before this, you don't mention any use of Haze over Clear Smog; you must either mention Haze could be used over Clear Smog in Set Comments or mention it here in a separate sentence before this one.) Haze, (RC) but could also be used over Spikes or Toxic Spikes if your team does not need them. Garbodor also has access to Sunny Day and Rain Dance, which could nullify be used to replace the opposing weather condition, and has the bulk to hang around to until the mid-game to use them.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Although many Pokemon are capable of KOing Garbodor, not many can prevent it from accomplishing its role as an entry hazard setter. Starmie is the biggest threat to Garbodor, as it outspeeds Garbodor and thus can spin away Garbodor's entry hazards before it can Explode. Forretress is another Rapid Spin user that is a pain for Garbodor, as it takes little to no damage from Garbodor's attacks and can set up its own entry hazards. Even though Garbodor is able to pseudo-spinblock against Forretress with Explosion, Forretress will still be at a sufficient amount of health to possibly use Rapid Spin later in the game.</p>

<p>Fast Taunt leads such as Terrakion, Froslass, and Aerodactyl, while uncommon, can outspeed Garbodor and prevent it from setting up entry hazards. Additionally, these Pokemon can set up their own entry hazards while taking little damage in return from Explosion.</p>

GP 2/2

 

[Tokyo Tom]

Thanks for catching that, I actually found out that Haze was illegal with something else on the set (c'maaan 49) and did a poor job of removing the evidence haha.

Anyway, this is done, I believe Oglemi is the one to tag for uploading?

 

[Jukain]

uploading this