Gothitelle (QC: 0/2) (reassigned)

[Animus Majulous]

Gothitelle

QC: 0/2
GP: 0/1

Overview
########
+ the ability shadow tag is extremely powerful and prevents opposing pokemon from
switching out; this allows you to trap pokemon at will and eliminate threats
+ overall solid defense and special defense stats that is undermined by its terrible hp stat
+ extremely good at crippling pokemon with choiced items
+ its psychic type is debatably the best offensive typing in cap; while it loses to colossoil and pursuit trappers, it makes up for it with the ability to trap and ohko many S and A rank cap pokes such as mega venusaur, tomohawk, landorus, fire weak mons, and essentially cripples stall by itself if used correctly.
+ relatively versatile movepool that gives it access to many super effective attacks
on threats; can rest stall
- it can be easily set up upon if you choice lock yourself
- loses to pursuit

Choice Specs
########
name: Specs Killer
move 1: Trick
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Thunderbolt/Energy Ball
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid/modest
evs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 hp
evs: 252 SpA/176 Spe/80 hp

Moves
========
-Trick is used on chansey and other bulky stall pokemon to cripple them and render
them useless
- Psychic hits tomohawk, venusaur, and arghonaut as well as other pokes; its your
main stab move
- HP Fire is for ferrothorn and scizor and all kinds of pokes that are really weak to fire moves. Essentially helps you act as a mini magnezone
- Thunderbolt, energy ball, and other special filler moves act as counters to specific threats to your team

Set Details
========
- Specs set is used to trap and easily KO walls, or to trick them the item
- Max SpA is needed in order to hit hard and KO pokemon
- You can outspeed base 85 with the non max speed set

Usage Tips
========
- Its very risky to blindly make predictions. Unless you are very talented at
prediction making, it is best to wait for one of your pokemon to faint and for you to
send in the gothitelle to revenge kill.
- Sometimes tricking a pokemon a scarf can be dangerous, though you do not have
to worry about the opponent switching pokemon. Always try to get the specs back if you can. The specs help you actually KO pokes.
- The goal with this set should be to KO/cripple a pokemon, preferably more than one. It helps pick apart stall teams
- Does not sweep teams because its speed is amazing (not).
- The main benefit is not its amazing stats, but the ability to come in and KO any
pokemon that you design your set to KO.

Team Options
========
- Gothitelle is one of the best support pokemon in the meta. It can help your team
pick out and target a specific weakness, and guarantees you the ability to remove
the threat; but, you cannot use it by itself, you have to build a team around it.
- Because it is weak to dark, you need to run a tomahawk or other knock off eating
pokemon. If Gothitelle becomes pursuit trapped, well...
- Its nice to be able to either uses Gothitelle on a stall team with this set as it helps in a stall mirror match. So any stall team generally can find a space for Gothitelle.
- Gothitelle likes Volt-turn cores, which include Pokemon like Syclant and Colossoil, to easily maneuver and trap targets.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Scarf Killer
move 1: Trick
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Thunderbolt/Energy Ball
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 hp (outspeed syclant by 1 speed)
evs: 252 SpA/224 Spe/28 hp (outspeed landorus I by 1 speed)

Moves
========
-Trick is used on chansey and other bulky stall pokemon to cripple them and render
them useless
- Psychic hits tomohawk, venusaur, and arghonaut as well as other pokes; its your
main stab move
- HP Ice OHKO's Landorus I, which is a monster in cap.
- Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, and other special filler moves act as counters to specific threats to your team, especially skarmory.

Set Details
========
- Scarf set is used to trap and easily KO walls, but also quick pokemon that you tailor Gothitelle to KO.
- Max Spe is needed in order to be fast enough to KO pokemon, tho 224 outspeeds syclant and base 121.
- You can trick chansey the scarf and cripple it, tho this is not as effective as the wall breaker set.

Usage Tips
========
- Its very risky to blindly make predictions. Unless you are very talented at
prediction making, it is best to wait for one of your pokemon to faint and for you to
send in the gothitelle to revenge kill.
- Sometimes tricking a pokemon a scarf can be dangerous, though you do not have
to worry about the opponent switching pokemon. Always try to get the specs back if you can. The specs help you actually KO pokes.
- The goal with this set should be to KO/cripple a pokemon, preferably more than one. It helps pick apart stall teams
- Does not sweep teams because its speed is amazing (not).
- The main benefit is not its amazing stats, but the ability to come in and KO any
pokemon that you design your set to KO.

Team Options
========
- Gothitelle is one of the best support pokemon in the meta. It can help your team
pick out and target a specific weakness, and guarantees you the ability to remove
the threat; but, you cannot use it by itself, you have to build a team around it.
- Because it is weak to dark, you need to run a tomahawk or other knock off eating
pokemon. If Gothitelle becomes pursuit trapped, well...
- Its nice to be able to either uses Gothitelle on a stall team with this set as it helps in a stall mirror match. So any stall team generally can find a space for Gothitelle.
- Gothitelle likes Volt-turn cores, which include Pokemon like Syclant and Colossoil, to easily maneuver and trap targets.

Wall Trapper
########
name: Wall Trapper
move 1: Rest
move 2: Trick
move 3: Psychic
move 4: HP fire/Thunderbolt
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
nature: Bold
evs: 80 Hp/176 Spe/ 252 SpA

Moves
========
- Rest is used to live toxic stall from a pokemon like chansey
- Trick is used to cripple a pokemon. You trick Chanseys.
- HP fire or Thunderbolt is essentially there for the same reason as in the first set
- “Psychic”

Set Details
========
- It is worth noting that the 176 speed is needed to outspeed base 85 speeds
- This is a standard set that walls chansey, and can tank physical attackers well
- Can eliminate tomohawk un speed invested

Usage Tips
========
- This set is dangerously easy to be set up on. Sometimes, its just better to sack the
gothitelle than let i.e a cawmodore set up a belly drum on it.
- This set should only be used to cripple and KO stall pokemon; you are not going to
revenge kill i.e a landorus with this set.
- Don’t be set up on.
- You live 3 seismic tosses from chansey with 1 hp left after stealth rocks, the plan is to rest the damage off after you choice the chansey into seismic toss, and then you win the pp stall and force the chansey to struggle.

Team Options
========
- This set is the definition of support. You use it to fill in a spot on a team, whatever
the core may be, so that a main threat of the core can be eliminated.
- In this case, you use it on a team that has an extreme weakness to chansey/
skarmory core, which is the most predominant stall core in the meta.
- A balanced core with tomohawk, landorus, and colossoil is standard
- Mega gardevoir, mega pinsir, talonflame, and other fast attackers are also good
options to pair with gothitelle
- For the ev investment, scarf set can also run 144+ speed, 252 spA, and 108 hp to have just enough speed to outspeed base 101 (landorus).
- Gothitelle likes Volt-turn cores, which include Pokemon like Syclant and Colossoil, to easily maneuver and trap targets.

Other Options
########
- You can debate psyshock versus psychic all day long. Psychic is preferred though
because it dents tomohawk and physical walls better.

Checks & Counters
########
**Anything with pursuit (mainly colossoil and bisharp); also, any pokemon with
access to physical dark or ghost moves forces it to switch out.
**Any pokemon that can (depending on the set ran) take a couple hits and
set up a belly drum, quiver dance, dragon dance, etc.
** Syclant and any physical attacker with a lot of speed can force a switch or force
you to sack gothitelle if you do not run max speed.
**If you lock yourself into i.e thunderbolt or energy ball, you lose to cawmodore if you do not have a counter.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

I'd go with Hidden Power Fire over Hidden Power Ice on Specs sets, as the ability to do upwards of 90% damage to Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor is really nice. It also gets a nice hit on Volt Absorb Cawmodore. I can understand going with Hidden Power Ice on Scarfed sets for faster Dragons and Landorus, but when dealing with slower Pokemon or Pokemon that can't immediately OHKO Gothitelle, I recommend HP Fire. I would also call Thunderbolt pretty non-negotible on this set, and Energy Ball is a pretty mediocre option. Energy Ball only hits Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Rotom-W; the first can OHKO Gothitelle, the second can phaze Gothitelle, and the last one can Volt Switch out. Energy Ball Gothitelle doesn't even beat Colossoil because of Sucker Punch. Modest is also the better nature on a Specs set, Gothitelle really needs the power (it only has base 95 SpA). I'd recommend making the set look a little more like this:

name: Choiced Attacker
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Trick
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Energy Ball
move 4: Thunderbolt / Energy Ball
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (scarf or specs)
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA/ 4 Spe (additional specs set)

I'm pretty skeptical of the Wall set being viable, but I haven't used it before so I won't comment on it.

 

[Animus Majulous]

I based my sets specifically on how the Pokemon is viable in cap. Scarf and specs really only cripples stall Pokemon while being able to revenge some Pokemon.

Hp fire I forgot about and will add that in, but as many people do not use ferrothorn, scizor, etc in cap, I feel it does not deserve a primary moveslot.

 

[jas61292]

For the specs set, I think it is generally a good idea to run either 84 or 92 Speed EVs to get the jump on uninvested Arghonaut and Mollux respectively. Both fail to be reliably OHKOd, and can hit back decently. I would consider the former generally more important, since the ability to stop set up sweepers makes Argho a more important general target for trapping and removing, while Mollux has lower overall bulk and is either to remove with other things thanks to the x4 ground weak. If Mollux is not really a concern, then 84 is where I would go, but otherwise, 92 is a good benchmark to hit.

 

[Animus Majulous]

Ooh, that's a good idea jas. I'll change that when I get home.

 

[jas61292]

OK, time to get down to QC business.

My first suggestion here would just be to separate the two choice sets from each other. While they are pretty similar in moveset, their function is quite different, especially with them using different EV spreads. With that said, the information for both sets is already there, so that is more organizational than anything.

The other comment I have here is that for the Wall Trapper set, you should choose one EV set for the main option, and just mention how you could alter it to deal with certain threats later on. I'd probably suggest the maximum bulk spread, outspeeding walls, while nice, is not nearly as important when you are not tricking them a choice item. Speaking of which, the mention of Scarf at the bottom of team options seems out of place for this set.

Finally, I'd edit the way you talk about BP Tomohawk in the Checks and Counters section. It is not really a check at all, but it is definitely something you need to keep an eye out for. I'd just say that it is a very dangerous lure for Gothitelle when paired with a Pursuit trapper.

 

[Animus Majulous]

Ok, thanks Jas. Yeah, I did this a while ago and I'll edit it accordingly.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

In the OO section, you mentioned goth running focus blast to beat kyu-b; it doesn't learn focus blast, so I'd remove that entirely.

Also, backing up what jas said, split the choice sets up; Hp fire does better on specs whilst ice is better on scarf

 

[cbrevan]

Team Options for the Wall Trapper set should include a mention of how it lets flying spam get past its biggest check, Cyclohm. All sets should mention how Gothitelle makes a great team mate for set up sweepers as it can trap and kill Haze Tomohawk and Argohnaut.

 

[Animus Majulous]

This is like a half year outdated. I'll redo it... You don't need to waste time telling me something until I redo the skeleton.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Alright, good to see the choice sets split up. As jas mentioned earlier, saying Baton Pass tomo is a check/counter is a bit weird. I'm not sure what's the best way to mention BP tomo, however... possibly just make a short "beware statement" in Usage Tips rather than in checks/counters. Other than that, I'd say maybe polish up your ideas in the Overview section. For example, "its psychic type, which is a strong type in cap because it eliminates many threats" could be changed to something more like "Psychic STAB is helpful for dealing with prominent CAP threats such as Tomohawk." You don't want to be super specific, but briefly explaining why Psychic STAB is valuable in CAP could help users understand Gothitelle's role in the tier a bit more.

You're on the right track.

 

[KhosroTheGreat]

Gothitelle can be a bit hard to use, especially for the less able among us, so up until ORAS, this thing was a nightmare to use for me (and still sometimes is). It's also a bit unreliable, in that sometimes it's a game changer as it takes out a wall for me, and other times I literally can't use it for anything other than sacking it so I can get a revenge kill. Lastly, some mention of (slow) VoltTurn would be nice IMO, since goth really appreciates it, since it really doesn't like switching into things and (slow) VoltTurn allows it to trap things not only much easier but without having to take damage switching in. I thought these 3 things might be good to add.

I'm still very much a noob in terms of Gothitelle usage, but the set which turned me from someone who couldn't use it if his life depended on it to someone who could use it half-decently is this:

Wall Trapper
########
name: Wall Trapper
move 1: Rest
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Psychic
move 4: HP Fire
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Chesto Berry
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP/ 252 SpD/ 4 SpA

This set is a variation on the current Wall Trapper set that's on here, but it works a bit differently. (Slow) VoltTurn and sacking stuff allows Goth to come in and trap a wall (e.g. Ferrothorn, Cyclohm, Mollux, Chansey, non-BP Tomohawk), which it then proceeds to wear down with toxic or hit with Psychic (which is better for a lot of the walls it is trapping) or HP Fire (which hits things like Ferrothorn). ChestoResto allows it to toxic or PP stall (The PP Stall vs Chansey is real), as well as absorbing status (to an extent) and even possibly allowing it to get back to full health to go for a second trap and KO. This creates holes in opponent's teams, allowing the rest of the team to go out and rip it apart. It's frailty even with max SpD means it still can't take powerful hits, but you already know that (and a lot of other things I mentioned).

Just my thoughts. Hope this set gets a mention, because it has been putting in work for me.

 

[Animus Majulous]

The bad thing about your set Khosro is that hp fire cannot get kills on pokes unless it has a lot of special attack investment. You're not running defense, so its not going to tank i.e pursuit or knock off from pokemon, and if already tanks special hits decently well. A good gothitelle user will have a volt turn, which I forgot to mention and I did add. However, when taking down stall pokemon, the only real ones you should go for are the fire weak steel pokes, ferrothorn and scizor, and chansey. All of these are taken down by the set I already mentioned above, and ferrothorn will not get 2hko'd and scizor will not get ohkoed unless you run specs or max special attack.

I think you are confused how the pp stall on chansey works. You trick chansey the specs, and because of the 301 hp in the set, you can take 3 seismic tosses and then rest the damage, run them out of pp, trick the specs back, and then potentially trap more Pokemon. That's how I use the sets, I hope it helped. And I hope you understand now why I use the sets I do. But, if more people like the set you proposed I will add it in OO, but I feel its just inferior to all the other sets I listed.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Alright, I'm almost ready to give this a QC. Move the second EV spreads to alternative options under set details, and keep their reasoning. Also, this is nitpicking at this stage but I might as well mention it... I'm pretty sure the formatting of your EVs are a bit off. I believe HP should always be listed first, then attack, then defense, etc. Furthermore, there should be proper spaces in between all of the slashes. In general, try to follow this as an example for the ev formatting:

80 HP / 96 Def / 80 SpD / 252 Spe

HP listed first (and capitalized), spaces on both sides of the slashes, etc.

 

[sparktrain]

Choice Specs
- Mention which threats Thunderbolt and Energy Ball are useful for (both provide coverage for Water-types, T-bolt mainly hits skarm, Energy ball is better vs certain waters such as Krilowatt, whose removal can be helpful for bird spam)
- Under Usage Tips, the current wording sort of implies that good prediction making somehow makes it a better idea to switch Goth in, when in reality it's just a high-risk, medium reward sorta deal, so maybe reword it so it heavily emphasizes that it's generally safest to use Goth as a revenge killer, rather than focusing on the prediction-making aspect.
- In addition to being a revenge killer, Gothitelle can be brought in via slow U-turn / Volt Switch, allowing Gothitelle to come in undamaged and pick off an opponent, so mention this method of bringing her in in usage tips as well (possibly include some slower VoltTurners in Team options, too)

Other Options
- I know there's a bunch of other shenanigans trapper Gothitelle can pull off, including but not limited to Calm Mind, Charm, Taunt, Magic Coat... so go ahead and put them here, plus whatever stuff I missed.

And as a general comment, if a set has multiple possible EV spreads, list one as the main spread, and include any others as alternate spreads under Set Details, explaining the advantages and disadvantages of the alternative.

Great work

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I know there's a bunch of other shenanigans trapper Gothitelle can pull off, including but not limited to Calm Mind, Charm, Taunt, Magic Coat... so go ahead and put them here, plus whatever stuff I missed.

It's true that the OO has room to grow here, but let's keep this to purely relevant/worthy moves. Taunt and Calm Mind are great for OO, but I find it questionable to mention Charm and Magic Coat because they are fairly obscure (Taunt in general is easier to pull off and affects more moves than Magic Coat does. Charm could have a few niche uses, but they might be very very niche in the CAP meta where most physical attackers will outspeed or possibly KO in a few turns despite Charm).

 

[jas61292]

Speaking of Other Options, I might suggest throwing a mention of Grass Knot. While, in general Energy Ball does more to key Pokemon like Rotom-W and Krilowatt, Grass Knot is notable on a Choice Specs set for nabbing a guaranteed 2HKO on Assault Vest Colossoil. This is especially useful on a variant with Max Speed, as you will out speed AV Colo, meaning that if you can catch it on the switch in, you turn a situation that would otherwise be a forced switch or worse (Pursuit) into a 50/50 or better (50/50 if they have Pursuit & Sucker Punch. Better if they have only one or neither).

Other than that, I agree with HeaL that Charm and Magic Coat are probably not useful enough in this metagame for a mention, but Taunt and CM definitely are.