Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[Jukain]

Some more detail on a couple of the noms I mentioned in my last post:

Tyranitar should rise to A Rank because the Choice Scarf set is really effective in this metagame. The Latis are still as common as ever and Scarftar is the single best way to eliminate them from the match, which in turn provides excellent support for hazard-based balanced cores featuring Pokemon like Spikes Ferrothorn, Chesnaught, and TSpikes Tentacruel. Furthermore, it's an excellent answer to Talonflame and has solid matchups against many common Pokemon, including its ability to check Bisharp with Scarf Superpower, check Manectric/Raikou by tanking their hits well and Pursuiting on the Volt Switch, checkmating Gengar which is a major threat to balance, revenge killing slightly weakened Mega Metagross, sort of checking Thundurus, checking +1 Zard X at full health, checking Mega Charizard Y, revenge killing Diggersby with Superpower, potentially providing sand support for Excadrill, and being able to pick off a ton of weakened common Pokemon eg ~50/60% Landorus-I, ~50% Mega Gallade, ~65% Mega Diancie depending on the spread, and ~50% Keldeo. It's just a high utility set that works well on a lot of teams and gives Tyranitar a lot of use in the current metagame. On top of this, it has an effective Smooth Rock set that can lure certain foes with Ice Beam/Fire Blast including beating the most common hazard removers, provides Stealth Rock support, counters a decent handful of common threats (Talonflame, Latis, and Mega Charizard X being the main ones), soft checks even more Pokemon, and is the primary reason that Sand Rush Excadrill can be effective in the metagame.

Latias should always remain one rank behind Latios IMO and that's because it's much more exploitable than Latios. The extra bulk it has isn't all that relevant for the most part, especially considering the loss in power, and its main niche is Healing Wish, which is effective with offensive partners and is enough to give Latias a pretty solid niche over Latios, but it also means that Latias is much more strapped for moveslots and less versatile than Latios. Latios can run all kinds of sets and variants like Roost + 3 attacks with a variety of coverage options available for the third attack, Roost + Defog for a consistent Defogger and Keldeo check, and Choice Scarf to cripple defensive Pokemon with Trick and revenge kill faster foes like Mega Lopunny especially. More gimmicky, but still effective options like CM and Heal Block can even prove useful for certain teams to enhance Latios's breaking capabilities against more defensively oriented and balanced builds. Latios simply poses a much more multidimensional threat than Latias and this is enough to push it down to A Rank, especially seeing as Latias is typically even more easily taken advantage of by Pokemon like Clefable, Mega Metagross, and Heatran than Latios is.

Mega Latias really isn't a very good Pokemon in this metagame because it's easily checked and requires extensive support. I've heard a lot of comments from players that I respect who think the SubCM Mega Latias set that was originally hyped is actually pretty bad, and I share much of these sentiments. The main problem with this set is that it's easily stopped by any Dark-type, including Scarf Tyranitar, SD Bisharp, Mega Sableye, and Mega Gyarados. It's not like these are niche Pokemon either; they are top-tier threats and fairly difficult to exploit. Other Pokemon that can cause problems for Mega Latias include but are not limited to SD Mega Scizor, DD Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross (assuming you don't get 0 Attack boosts ever), Azumarill, Unaware CM Clefable (this is actually good in the current metagame due to Mega Sableye, the surge in CM Mega Slowbro, DD Mega Altaria, and SD Mega Gallade), and Toxic Klefki. It's also rather slow to set up so many offensive teams can just throw immediate pressure on it. If it opts to run a secondary attack in order to alleviate its issues with initial power and hitting certain Pokemon -- Dragon Pulse being the primary candidate -- then it loses the protection of Substitute and becomes more exploitable in regards to residual like status and Leech Seed. With that said, I think B+ or maybe A- is the best place for Mega Latias.

Leaving some of the nominations/arguments I have yet to expand on here. Will probably cover these later today and then talk about a couple cool Pokemon that may or not be deserving for D Rank.

Mega Lopunny -> A+
Mega Slowbro -> A+
Mega Gardevoir -> A
Clefable -> A+
Mega Heracross -> B+/B
Crawdaunt -> B-/C+

 

[Mr. Hothead]

I really dont think we should put Clefable to S rank. This meta is dominated by bulky stallmons to fast and deadly wallbreakers. Then, we have a pokemon in the middle, Clefable. With an amazing ability and an even better movepool, you would think this would be the package for S rank. Sadly for me this isnt the case as its mediocre stats and lack of Offensive pressure doesn't really intrigue me. Great on stall and Balanced, however, I feel like it cant do much. People are trying to back up that Clef has nearly no counters when they are giving false and shabby arguments based on prediction (prediction=viability guys) and so on. Every Fire type in the OU metagame basically checks/counters Clef, and Fire types are common (despite only 6 are in OU and BL.)

Its rare TWave set, however, does clear a bit of its threats, but heal bell exists.

Sadly the problem is, is that Clefable does not fare well against a few mons, most notably MMeta and Taunt users. Seriously, this mon gets cockblocked so hard by Taunt, and thats a huge problem. All in all, A+ rank is good enough for it. It requires partners, does a decent job at setting rocks, a good Unaware user and CM setter, but it has the offensive pressure of a Shuckle and isnt too flexible. Stay at A+ for now.

EDIT: I also dont see it in the same rank as MMeta...

 

[theV8man]

Clefable - Definitely S-Rank
Serperior - Man, I'm not convinced with this thing. I say it's all hype. C if anything.
Tornadus-T - No opinion on him.
Volcarona - Volcarona is B-? I feel his offensive power doesn't make up for the support it needs unlike Char-Y who will always pull trough and prob KO atleast 2 pokes. C- for me.
Raikou - I agree with Kurona, Raikou is good enough for A.
Haxorus - His stats and ability are really good, can 2hko defensive clefable on the switch. It deserves C+

Now the mon I really want to talk about. Shadow Zoroark
View attachment 33710


I want to nominate Zoroark for B-/B. When I look at the pokemon in B rank I think that's the perfect place for Zoro to fit in. Dark has become an important type in gen 6 if it wasn't already. What it has over it's fellow Dark mons is it's suprise factor, good speed (second to no non-mega Dark bar Weavile), and his superior ability to go mixed.

I like Zoro because he does what most dark mons do, but most dark mons can't do what he does. He rids annoying items, lures and suprise kills threat's or tanks, cleans weakened mons and more.

The set I've been toying with :

(Zoroark) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 192 Atk / 92 SpA / 224 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Sucker Punch

It's the UU mixed attacker set but I changed it's ev so it will always outspeed + Base 101 pokes (like Landorus-I)

Some relevant calcs on the mons it will lure :
92 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 322-385 (91.4 - 109.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
192 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 198-234 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
92 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 286-338 (105.1 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
192 Atk Life Orb Zoroark Sucker Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 307-361 (96.2 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
92 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 283-335 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
92 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 536-634 (136 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Same for mamoswine)

Zoroark is frail, but it does not stop him from doing what he needs to do. I have two more relevant calcs :
Latios Psyshock vs. Zoroark: 0-0 (0 - 0%)
Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. Zoroark: 0-0 (0 - 0%)



I want to end my post with a tribute to Zoroark~ http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-200405093

Can't see this happening at all. It's got mediocre offensive potential, and it's speed doesn't make up for it because it's getting outrun by anything above 101 with your set. I honestly can't see this guy being useful against any playstyle. Against stall, it's easily walled by Sableye/Clefabe, nearly anything on balance can tank a hit and hit back, and nearly everything on HO can also most likely live a Sucker Punch, and outspeeds/kill. I mean look at the defense of this thing. 60/60/60 is horrendous, it's taking like 60% from Bisharp's Sucker Punch. This thing is never switching into an attack, period. I guess it has ok coverage, but there are so many superior options for a "fast mixed wallbreaker" kind Pokemon. Pretty much every viable Dark Type easily outclasses it also. Also the "surprise factor" isn't much of a surprise factor when you see the enemy's team before a match, not to mention you can figure out it's a Zoroark after using one move...

Next, your calcs aren't really relevant. I mean, wow, Ferrothorn dying to a Flamethrower and Quagsire getting OHKO's by Grass Knot? How impressive! Also posting cals of Psychic moves :|

But wait, there's more! Not only is Zoroark outclassed as both a mixed attacker and a Dark type, it also fares horrendously in this meta! With the prevalence of Pokemon like Lopunny, Clefable, Lando-t, Keldeo and more, as well as its eh speed Zoroark is struggling to not get checked against any given team!

Finally, the replay you posted was pretty bad considering the guy you were (who was using Donphan and Kyurem for God's sake) facing didn't figure out your Togekiss was a Zoroark AFTER IT USED KNOCK OFF.

Zoroark Stays Unranked

 

[MikeDawg]

A ---> B

Really obvious and quick one: For all what I speak about Raikou, MegaMan is a carbon copy of that while being strongest, quickest with an better ability but with worse bulk. While Raikou can be both an pivot and a bird spam check, MegaMan can only be a pivot, since it lacks the mentioned bulk, cannot hold Lefties and suffer from a gigantic opportunity cost from being a mega.

It still has some advantages over Raikou thought: Manectric is a MUCH better pivot thanks to Intimidate and speed, while also doing more damage due to higher Sp.Atk, but being a mega and failing to do any more than this puts Raikou at a much better landing, so therefore A is just too damn high to it to be. I was considering suggested to drop him all the way to C+, but like I said he has some advantages over Raikou and is better on what he does, but those same advantages doesn't make him any more higher than B for me.

lol wait a minute, are you actually serious? If anything, manectric should be moving in the opposite direction. It is perhaps the best "underdog" mega in the entire tier. It is incredibly splashable, incredibly consistent, and so so useful. It is obvious how great of a pokemon megaman is, so I can't quite fathom as to why you would even consider this nomination. It is so fast. It outspeeds p much the meta, plus many scarfers/ddance mons. Its coverage is stellar (highlight overheat/flamethrower), and it has no issue spamming it given a) no recoil and b) its speed means that it will more often than not get a hit off on a switchin anyway. Intimidate is obviously incredible. Fantastic check to birds, megagross, everything, really. Anecdotally, if other megas weren't more appealing atm for the fun, new factor (via oras), then megaman would show up on every single team that I make. Its recent common use on the teams of some of the best smogtour players is further evidence of its utility.

Perhaps I'm exaggerating a bit on accident, but still. The fact that you both made this nom AND insinuated that raikou far usurps it honestly discredits your entire post.

Also u are really overrating raikou lol assuming you saw someone successful using a team with gross+raikou or something, but that doesn't make it jesus dog. B+ or A- at most...


Edit:oops 3 pages late, but still

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Empoleon B- --> D

Now that Greninja is banned, there is absolutely no reason to use this thing, it's incredibly outclassed. Want a defogger? Use Latias or Scizor! Want a Special attacking water type? Use Keldeo or Starmie! Want a specially defensive water type? We got Manaphy! Lets also not forget that its slow as hell

 

[MikeDawg]

Empoleon B- --> D

Now that Greninja is banned, there is absolutely no reason to use this thing, it's incredibly outclassed. Want a defogger? Use Latias or Scizor! Want a Special attacking water type? Use Keldeo or Starmie! Want a specially defensive water type? We got Manaphy! Lets also not forget that its slow as hell

I don't think that d is incredibly fair. Somewhere in the Cs is a bit more reasonable. The loss of greninja to check is sucky, but it still has incredible bulk. Fml everytime it survives a thunderbolt/+2 superpower/etc. Some of the comparisons are p pointless tbh. Obviously empoleon isn't being used as a special water type, or even a bulky water really. Bulky af steel type that isn't weak to fire or dragon and can defog is more like it <3 The typing is also super great, giving it the ability to check the dragons and the like (it really doesnt take all that much from eqs). It is definitely outclassed but other bulky steels/waters, but the fact that it carries both defog/rocks and even some stuff like roar at the very least gives it a solid niche.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

Yea sadly everyone is underpreparing for MMan, and thank god its not getting popular cause if it was we would be screwed. Its coverage is so fantastic only a few pokemon can best it. The only thing keeping it back is its meh unboosted 135 special attack.

Once Latios/as is gone MMan is basically a sweeping machine. Sadly its once amazing speed tier is tied with MLop (stupid bunny) and therefore has a bit of trouble with it. Id say keep it at A.

edit: noticed i worded it wrong, i dont want it in A+, i was saying bring it to A+ as in like im on the fence about it.

 

[Alfalfa]

Empoleon B- --> D

Now that Greninja is banned, there is absolutely no reason to use this thing, it's incredibly outclassed. Want a defogger? Use Latias or Scizor! Want a Special attacking water type? Use Keldeo or Starmie! Want a specially defensive water type? We got Manaphy! Lets also not forget that its slow as hell

Empoleon was an ass check to Greninja anyways. I cannot see Empoleon dropping to D because a Pokemon it could not even check very well has been banned from OU.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

I don't think that d is incredibly fair. Somewhere in the Cs is a bit more reasonable. The loss of greninja to check is sucky, but it still has incredible bulk. Fml everytime it survives a thunderbolt/+2 superpower/etc. Some of the comparisons are p pointless tbh. Obviously empoleon isn't being used as a special water type, or even a bulky water really. Bulky af steel type that isn't weak to fire or dragon and can defog is more like it <3 The typing is also super great, giving it the ability to check the dragons and the like (it really doesnt take all that much from eqs). It is definitely outclassed but other bulky steels/waters, but the fact that it carries both defog/rocks and even some stuff like roar at the very least gives it a solid niche.

I see your point, but it still needs to drop to atleast C rank, also what steel type is weak to dragon?

 

[RoseColoredCampusLife]

I think Magnezone should drop to B+ or B. It's mostly used for taking out skarm and ferro which is a very specific niche. And while it is very good at what it does, it's not good for much else considering its poor speed. As an electric special attacker it's outclassed by mega man and raikou.

 

[RufflesPro]

Yea sadly everyone is underpreparing for MMan, and thank god its not getting popular cause if it was we would be screwed. Its coverage is so fantastic only a few pokemon can best it. The only thing keeping it back is its meh unboosted 135 special attack.

Once Latios/as is gone MMan is basically a sweeping machine. Sadly its once amazing speed tier is tied with MLop (stupid bunny) and therefore has a bit of trouble with it. Id say bring this guy to A+ but then again its probably not.

I don't see Mega Manectric at A+. I wouldn't really say everyone is "underpreparing" for Mega Manectric either. Most teambuilders check it unconsciously while teambuilding. Heatran, Mega Sableye, Mega Altaria, Clefable, Latios, Latias, Mega Venusaur (which is gaining a lot of popularity), Hippowdon (this too), Mamoswine, Tyranitar are all very common/solid/viable Pokemon, who are just from the A and S rank which can constantly check or even counter Mega Manectric. Also, Pokemon like Mega Lopunny, Mega Gallade, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Diancie are all viable Pokemon who take a hit at least once and deal heavy damage, if not KO back. You argue Volt Switch out so you can KO later? No, rarely will you have the right Pokemon to take a hit and even if you do that is the definition of Team Support, and it needs it to be effective, and this team support makes it unfit for A+ (And A, really).

Further, especially with the Greninja ban, the meta is shifting towards a MUCH bulkier one, easily checking or even countering Mega Manectric. Mega Manectric, I noticed, is being constantly checked and countered more since Balance, Bulky Offensive, and Stall are rapidly growing. I also would like to argue is that base 135 speed it not as good as it was anymore, and this is not because the existence of Mega Beedrill, Mega Lopunny, or Mega Sceptile. It is simply because there are not many Pokemon who are outspeed by base 135 anymore. Greninja is not here anymore, and Weavile did not live its hype (esp. with mence and ninja gone). There is a huge gap between 135 and 121 (The next most viable speed tier, residing with only one pokemon, being Torn-T) and 115 (Which is only 2 Pokemon, and Azelf which is rising in popularity). The ugliness of base 135 speed is that running Modest will make you outsped by Torn-T, which is not a big deal if you're team is ready for it, but being outsped by a hard-hitting Pokemon, especially on HO (Since that is the playstyle Mega Mane thrives in) will be very problematic (Whereas Mega Lopunny still hits very hard with Jolly and is perfectly fine in both Balanced and Bulky Offensive).

It does have its niches though, base 135 speed is regardless a very good speed, while Mega Manectric has very good coverage of fire/ice/electric. It also can run Modest on Balanced and Bulky Offensive, making it hit hard. However, it is still a burden vs. Stall (Especially Mega Sab stall), and that's why I think this thing should fall to A- or at the very worse, stay at A (though I really see A- more fitting).

 

[56k]

Why is Scizor B rank? What a crime!

It achieves comparable bulk to the mega form by running either leftovers or an assault vest. It hits harder than the mega form with a life orb or a choice band. Scarf scizor is a thing and there are also options like Steel Plate or Occa Berry. 70/100/80 bulk is really great to have, especially when you can usually dump 248 HP EVs into it.

And most importantly it doesn't take your mega slot. Yes we all know that the mega form is better, but getting something "almost as good" but still being able to use a different mega is a huge advantage. Base Scizor still doesn't have any issue countering Latis, Diancie, Gengar, etc. Shouldn't it be much closer to ranking of it's mega form (which is perfectly ranked at A+)



Nominating Scizor for A-

 

[Karxrida]

Why is Scizor B rank? What a crime!

It achieves comparable bulk to the mega form by running either leftovers or an assault vest. It hits harder than the mega form with a life orb or a choice band. Scarf scizor is a thing and there are also options like Steel Plate or Occa Berry. 70/100/80 bulk is really great to have, especially when you can usually dump 248 HP EVs into it.

And most importantly it doesn't take your mega slot. Yes we all know that the mega form is better, but getting something "almost as good" but still being able to use a different mega is a huge advantage. Base Scizor still doesn't have any issue countering Latis, Diancie, Gengar, etc. Shouldn't it be much closer to ranking of it's mega form (which is perfectly ranked at A+)



Nominating Scizor for A-

I stopped reading when I saw "Scarf".

In not-a-one-liner news, Lefties does not give it comparable bulk and stop putting AssVest on random things that can't switch into Scald without fearing a burn (or is trying to be a consistent way to Pursuit trap Lait@s, which you are not because HP Fire). Scizor is fine where it is right now.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

I don't see Mega Manectric at A+. I wouldn't really say everyone is "underpreparing" for Mega Manectric either. Most teambuilders check it unconsciously while teambuilding. Heatran, Mega Sableye, Mega Altaria, Clefable, Latios, Latias, Mega Venusaur (which is gaining a lot of popularity), Hippowdon (this too), Mamoswine, Tyranitar are all very common/solid/viable Pokemon, who are just from the A and S rank which can constantly check or even counter Mega Manectric. Also, Pokemon like Mega Lopunny, Mega Gallade, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Diancie are all viable Pokemon who take a hit at least once and deal heavy damage, if not KO back. You argue Volt Switch out so you can KO later? No, rarely will you have the right Pokemon to take a hit and even if you do that is the definition of Team Support, and it needs it to be effective, and this team support makes it unfit for A+ (And A, really).

Further, especially with the Greninja ban, the meta is shifting towards a MUCH bulkier one, easily checking or even countering Mega Manectric. Mega Manectric, I noticed, is being constantly checked and countered more since Balance, Bulky Offensive, and Stall are rapidly growing. I also would like to argue is that base 135 speed it not as good as it was anymore, and this is not because the existence of Mega Beedrill, Mega Lopunny, or Mega Sceptile. It is simply because there are not many Pokemon who are outspeed by base 135 anymore. Greninja is not here anymore, and Weavile did not live its hype (esp. with mence and ninja gone). There is a huge gap between 135 and 121 (The next most viable speed tier, residing with only one pokemon, being Torn-T) and 115 (Which is only 2 Pokemon, and Azelf which is rising in popularity). The ugliness of base 135 speed is that running Modest will make you outsped by Torn-T, which is not a big deal if you're team is ready for it, but being outsped by a hard-hitting Pokemon, especially on HO (Since that is the playstyle Mega Mane thrives in) will be very problematic (Whereas Mega Lopunny still hits very hard with Jolly and is perfectly fine in both Balanced and Bulky Offensive).

It does have its niches though, base 135 speed is regardless a very good speed, while Mega Manectric has very good coverage of fire/ice/electric. It also can run Modest on Balanced and Bulky Offensive, making it hit hard. However, it is still a burden vs. Stall (Especially Mega Sab stall), and that's why I think this thing should fall to A- or at the very worse, stay at A (though I really see A- more fitting).

God i worded my post so wrong sorry you had to post that many words... I dont want it in A+... totally my fault. Im fine with it in A just for its ability to check a few extremely threatening mons, and it has its fair share of things it can handle.

Why is Scizor B rank? What a crime!

It achieves comparable bulk to the mega form by running either leftovers or an assault vest. It hits harder than the mega form with a life orb or a choice band. Scarf scizor is a thing and there are also options like Steel Plate or Occa Berry. 70/100/80 bulk is really great to have, especially when you can usually dump 248 HP EVs into it.

And most importantly it doesn't take your mega slot. Yes we all know that the mega form is better, but getting something "almost as good" but still being able to use a different mega is a huge advantage. Base Scizor still doesn't have any issue countering Latis, Diancie, Gengar, etc. Shouldn't it be much closer to ranking of it's mega form (which is perfectly ranked at A+)



Nominating Scizor for A-

 

[Fortune]

I think Magnezone should drop to B+ or B. It's mostly used for taking out skarm and ferro which is a very specific niche. And while it is very good at what it does, it's not good for much else considering its poor speed. As an electric special attacker it's outclassed by mega man and raikou.

Don't really see this happening. It's niche in the OU tier is not limited to just trapping skarm and ferro. It's a good revenge killer and it's the only fast electric type which is able to reliably take out bulky fairies like clef and sylveon. Also, its variety of resistances and immunities make it an amazing component in voltturn teams.

 

[Kurona]

Honestly, I think Scizor should move up; perhaps to B+ because the Choice Band set has got better in ORAS with a lot more fairy Megas to kill and forms great synergy with other Pokes on a multitude of cores.
Just... just not scarf. N-no plz.

 

[RufflesPro]

IMO the best Scizor's set atm is Jolly LO SD with BP/Superpower/Bug Bite. This set is a fantastic wallbreaker and a fantastic cleaner.
First, it does not lure in Heatran only to be hit very hard by Superpower, but Bug Bite does tons of damage to tons of different mons, including Rotom-W, Slowbro (Mega), Mega Metagross (Since Scizor can take a hit if full), and even to things like Mega Sableye. SD+BP with LO also hits very hard, surprisingly doing a ton to Scarf Landorus-T, even after Intimidate (Assuming SD is up). However, it has a lot of common counters/checks in Keldeo, Bulky Landorus-T, Skarmory, Quagsire, Offensive Heatran, etc.

The Band set is also actually very decent and actually good enough simply because Scizor forces a lot of switches and Banded U-turn does not only give Momentum but hurts A LOT, especially if the team is not very well prepared. I could see this Pokemon in B and B+, but I'm leaning towards B+ a bit more.

 

[RoseColoredCampusLife]

Don't really see this happening. It's niche in the OU tier is not limited to just trapping skarm and ferro. It's a good revenge killer and it's the only fast electric type which is able to reliably take out bulky fairies like clef and sylveon. Also, its variety of resistances and immunities make it an amazing component in voltturn teams.

is scarf more common than specs? Now that i think about it scarf seems like a better option, but if you wanted a fast elec for a volt turn core wouldn't you run mega man instead?

 

[Kurona]

I honestly don't see the point in running Scarf Magnezone when Scarf Magneton exists; unless you're going for the surprise factor.

 

[Miridy]

I'll expand a little on Mega Gardevoir:
Yes, Mega Gardevoir is a great answer against Stall teams with Mega Sableye, most of the time, however, we should remember that stuff like Jirachi exists, and isn't that much of a strange pick on defensive teams, but this is not the only problem for Gardevoir.

Metagross itself:
The presence of Mega Metagross is an instant momentum loss for any Gardevoir player, sure you may consider running Shadow Ball (please don't, focus blast still 2hkes mega metagross with stealth rock support) and lose coverage but you still won't be able to ohko gross, while he's faster than you and can threaten you with Meteor Mash AND Pursuit.

100 base speed isn't that fast:
With so many new Base 110 speed megas, one of them Mega Diancie (which also bounces back wow and isn't weak to Shadow Balls from Sableye) another Fairy Mega faster, with greater bulk and ability to hit both sides of the spectrum, combined with Earth Power, a more safe way to deal with Heatran Gardevoir's speed isn't that high anymore, bear in mind that before mega evolving Gardevoir's speed is at a terrible 80 base, if we combine this with Gardevoir's bulk we can see how that also troubles it in giving it effective chaces to... staying alive and attack.
Being also slower than stuff like say Keldeo who can 2hko you with Scald, giving you even less opportunities to switch in does not help you any bit.



Frail:

I'll just say it, Mega Gardevoir is actually physically frailer than... Greninja, Lucario and Infernape pokemons that are not known for being great tanks.
Mentioned already in Metagross, and the rise of Scizor discussed in the last messages, but things aren't too good for Gardevoir, being a Psychic and Fairy types means that you get neutral hits against dark types, which translated means stuff like Bisharp's Sucker Punch may even ohko you, a ghost weakness which is troublesome to cover on a team, even though with Aegislash's ban and Gengar's recent usage fall isn't important like in the past, a poison weakness, which is weel only Gengar who can surpass you, and especially a steel weakness, so again, Mega Metagross, Excadrill under sand Scizor, mega or not, Scarf Heatran, Scarf Magnezone etc.
Being also ohkoed by Scarf Landorus-therian's eq, the most used pokemon at the moment is also a big no-no.


Mega Slot:
Ok, Gardevoir is a great Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker too with Taunt, but you have to use a Mega Slot for it, isn't there really anything else that might help me against stall? We have seen a great rise in Manaphy in order to better fight off Sableye Stall Teams, which does not costs you a mega slot, there is also good ol' 4 Attacks Landorus-Incarnate, there are also other Wallbreaking megas, heck, 4 attack Mega Metagross too might be considered a Wallbreaker.

Long story short: ORAS and the "new speed tier" was totally unkind to Mega Gardevoir, which saddens me, since it's my favorite mega, but this is competitive play, and by coldly thinking Gardevoir does not have anymore what it takes to be on par with stuff like Mega Scizor, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp, Heatran etc.

I also agree with Mega Lopunny, Crawdaunt and Mega Slowbro, but I don't have the time to talk about it, I'm sure Jukain will do a much better work than me anyways.

 

[56k]

I stopped reading when I saw "Scarf".

In not-a-one-liner news, Lefties does not give it comparable bulk and stop putting AssVest on random things that can't switch into Scald without fearing a burn. Scizor is fine where it is right now.

Assault Vest doesn't have to be your first choice of which item to use -- it's just there as an option so you can reliably counter some dragons without fearing scarf zone as much. You can also much more easily switch into neutral attacks like thunderbolt, shadow ball, and even hurricane. You also survive fire blast or flamethrower from clefable. It's not the best set, but it's there and is useful sometimes. I used it on a sableye team so it could more easily switch into gardevoir and diancie multiple times. Gardevoir can otherwise do 45% or so with hyper voice so I can only switch in twice. With vest I could switch in 4 times. Finally, being able to bluff being choice locked is also useful.

Leftovers is a really important item that can offset damage from hazards and brings scizor's bulk pretty decently close to that of mega scizor. It is the more useful option when you are using scizor to repeatedly take hazards while switch into things like ferrothorn or gliscor (and other things with fairly weak or resisted physical attacks) and threaten to start boosting. Recovering 6% here and there when you either SD or just attack is bulk that really adds up over a battle.

LO and band are the bread and butter items most people immediately jump to. They're obviously great without much explanation.

Scarf is something I remembered from DPP and i'm trying it out on a new team I made. I mentioned it because, hey, it's there. It's an item mega scizor can't use. Things show up in battles here and there like outspeeding starmie or metagross with a nice u-turn.

The main point is that scizor can use its wide selection of items to be almost as good as having a mega scizor on your team, and often the item gives you something that base scizor actually does better. It is definitely much better than the B rank stuff around it like mandibuzz, omastar, sharpedo, and other niche crap that you almost have to build around. Base Scizor can be dropped into almost any team, even stall as a defogger or as a sableye partner.

Between it's defensive traits (being a steel), offensive traits (technician bullet punch and strong Uturn), support movepool (defog, baton pass sets, roost, knock off), and overall useful type synergy to pair up well with many megas it definitely fullfills most of the criteria for an A ranked pokemon. It can sweep with SD, support the team, pivot, and even stall out things that aren't running fire coverage.

There are about 4 or 5 good sets, all equally useful and fullfilling different roles, and scizors flaws are staggeringly easy to compensate for: in terms of typing, any water/dragon/rock/fire type makes a good teammate on paper and many teams have at least 3 of those. Meanwhile his vulnerability to status can be "fixed" with a cleric or healing wish. Isn't clefable or altaria or latias an easy choice as an example teammate?

Overall he is not so much worse than his mega form that they are separated by 4 rankings. Pretty much every downside base scizor has can be handwaved by saying "yeah but it doesn't use the mega slot" which is actually huge because it opens up teammates. Meanwhile an item brings him back to similar viability. I think scizor should be 2 ranks lower than megascizor and that puts it at A-

 

[xXEricXx]

Salamence has lost any viability he even had when we banned Salamencite a few weeks ago. Now his only niche would be a Scarfed Moxie Sweeper, but even then it's extremely outclassed by any DD user in OU, thanks to it's bad typing and horrible stats for an sweeper. To put things into a perspective, Garchomp and Keldeo are much better Scarfers that kill a lot of stuff while also not having a weakness to SR. As far as the boosting set goes, every single pkm that has DD on their moveset is a better sweeper with things like Charizard X and Mega Altaria dominating this category, leavin literally no room for Salamence to be ranked at all, and is because those arguments that I'll be nominating Salamence to D ---> Unranked.

yeah i understand now that i thought about it, maybe it will be good in UU ( if it is not BL )

 

[Wargreymon]

Mega Gardevoir really shouldn't go down. She destroys stall and she got even better at that in ORAS. Jirachi was around in XY anyway and she still retained her A+ rank. She beats the two most common mega pokemon on stall, Slowbro and Sableye, really badly. It's not just stall, she also completely picks apart bulky teams in general. Not really deadweight against HO like most say either. Sure she's physically frail, but her special defense is not to be underestimated. She can live a specs hydro pump from Keldeo. At the very least you'll trade with something.

But yeah, she spanks Sableye and Slowbro so hard it's embarrassing. I think she deserves her A+ ranking because of that alone.

Edit: Not to mention she just lost Greninja as a check to her

 

[Miridy]

Mega Gardevoir really shouldn't go down. She destroys stall and she got even better at that in ORAS. Jirachi was around in XY anyway and she still retained her A+ rank. She beats the two most common mega pokemon on stall, Slowbro and Sableye, really badly. It's not just stall, she also completely picks apart bulky teams in general. Not really deadweight against HO like most say either. Sure she's physically frail, but her special defense is not to be underestimated. She can live a specs hydro pump from Keldeo. At the very least you'll trade with something.

But yeah, she spanks Sableye and Slowbro so hard it's embarrassing. I think she deserves her A+ ranking because of that alone.

Edit: Not to mention she just lost Greninja as a check to her

To be fair Mega Metagross also lost a check in Dark Pulse Greninja.
Yes you can take an Hydro Pump since at the end you only have a 6% chance to get ohkoed by it after Stealth Rocks, but that's basically it, Gardevoir cannot switch in against majority of attacks.
135 Special Defense is high, very high, the problem is that it is paired by very low hp and not that great speed.
Also, being able to completely pick apart "bulky" kind of offensive teams is a bit hard, when we have Mega Metagross and Mega Scizor as most used mega on this kind of teams.
Being able to stop Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro is an important thing, yes, but so does Tail Glow Manaphy with Energy Ball, albeit even better than Gardevoir since you have a way around Scald's burns.
Does Manaphy deserve A+ Rank? No, or at least if it deserve it, it will not be because of only this.

 

[Fortune]

I honestly don't see the point in running Scarf Magnezone when Scarf Magneton exists; unless you're going for the surprise factor.

are you actually serious? magneton's only niche in OU went out the window when gren was banned.

magnezone offers more bulk and power. ton can't even beat spdef ferro 1v1 when it comes in on leech seed. when a mon can't perform it's main niche there is a serious problem. i've never heard of anyone legitimately using scarf magneton over zone for any reason other than to outspeed greninja.