Tier Shift

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I have used four of those.
Doublade (69/120/160/55/59/45): When I use it, it is generally a set up sweeper / physical tank. It performs both of those roles quite well with a good typing and STAB priority. As I can't speak for anyone else's sets, mine runs eviolite for extra bulk.
Chansey (250/5/5/35/105/50): Ok, I don't think anybody uses it differently than me. It is used as a wall and a cleric. It gets access to both wish (off of its amazing hp) and access to heal bell/aromatherapy. It also can harm the opponent with toxic stall or seismic toss. There aren't any changes from how it is used in ou, so again, it runs eviolite.
Scyther (85/125/95/70/95/120): This thing is used as a set up sweeper. It is the only roll I have seen for it. (Also credit to Gimlaf because I basically stole his set n_n) It pulls it off well with solid 90 power moves, amazing bulk with eviolite, and Swords Dance. Once again, I use eviolite.
Togetic (70/55/100/95/120/55): This thing. Probably my least favorite thing that I have ever used in TS. Maybe I was using it wrong? It got 2hko'd or Ohko'd by everything I sent it in against. I used it because it is very versatile. You would use Eviolite, hopefully. It isn't bulky enough to deal with the current meta, especially if somebody sets up stealth rocks. I suppose you would be using it for a cleric or a defogger, or maybe a bulky pivot.

The only other NFE that has caught my eye is sneasel. It has 70/110/70/50/90/130 stats. It isn't necessarily better or worse than weavile, however. It has 15 points lower attack, although it has more bulk. I personally prefer weavile, but people have freedom of using pokemon or whatever. Its general set would be like a band, a life orb, or an eviolite or something.

NFEs add value by diversifying the meta even more. Some of them even strictly outclass their evolutions. A lot are bulkier because of eviolite. However, it creates problems because knock off is fairly common, making them lose their bulk.

Some other items could be choice items and life orbs. They already ahve a defensive item in eviolite, so lets go to offensive n_n Choice items and life orbs can be used on stuff such as revenge killers like sneasle, as well as sweepers like haunter.
 
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Though I've had only a little bit of bad experience with Tier Shift, Togetic looks good on paper as a cleric, thanks to its wide support movepool that includes Wish, Heal Bell, Defog, and reliable recovery in the form of Roost. I also expect that it could run a Nasty Plot + Baton Pass set, as it does in lower tiers. Togetic is at a disadvantage because of its almost complete lack of offensive presence, with Dazzling Gleam being its strongest Fairy STAB, but at least it has a good defensive typing (4x Fighting resist in particular) to make up for that.
 
A few NFEs that are missing are Golbat (Wall, Stallbreaker, Defogger), Combusken (Mixed Attacker, Baton Passer) and to a much lesser extent Gurdurr (Lower attack than Conk but more bulk and can use Bulk Up) and Rhydon (lower attack than Rhyperior but slightly faster and bulkier).
 
Also Pikachu look good in paper... 70/65 light ballet offenses are pretty powerful and 105 speed isn't that bad of a benchmark... It can use Extremespeed for priority or just Physical Boltbeam coverage, coming from something even stronger than Azumarill... It clearly misses the extra power from a Life Orb or a Choice Band but I think it can work... It can also work especial going with lightning rod and nice prediction...
 
it does get lolololquickattack.
unfortunately, pikachu is just too slow to actually do what it wants to do without espeed and its movepool forces it to got mixed if it does not have icicle crash.
 
I've enjoyed using Piloswine and Gurdurr. With eviolites they both have ridiculous amounts of bulk and both have priorities coming off of sizable attack stats. Gurdurr can set up bulk ups while eviolite gives it a similar (if not equivalent, I forget off the top of my head) boost to Conkeldurr's assault vest which makes Gurdurr a pretty useful option. Doublade is another great NFE which was decent before any stat boosts and after them its attack goes to 120, defense to 160 and while its special defense is still low at 59, under an eviolite those defensive stats become massive.

Edit: Done for some clarity.
 

Knight of Cydonia

I COULD BE BANNED!
In case you live under a rock contrary serperior was released and its really good. It currently has +15 which gives it some great stats with 90/90/110/90/110/128, it outspeeds a lot of stuff and has surprising bulk to take most neutral hits. Here is the set I have been abusing.

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute
- Dragon Pulse

Leaf storm is the obvious move that can threaten to power through damn near everything including the pink blobs. Even when resisted Leaf storm is still stronger than its neutrally hitting coverage moves so keep that in mind when using it. Hidden power fire hits steel, bug and grass type switch ins hard after a boost. Dragon Pulse hits dragon types, particularly dragalage who 4 times resists leaf storm. Its also a 100 percent accurate move to clean with if you acquire enough leaf storm boosts. Finally Substitute blocks status and possible revenge killing attempts - eg opponent switches to weakened water type on the expected leaf storm, you get a sub and the +2 next turn.

Other options for serperior are a choice specs set or life orb. It also has Glare which can paralyse offensive leaf storm resists, or even knock off to weaken some stuff. HP Ground gets the job done against Heatran who otherwise walls you and HP Fighting is the mid way point between fire and ground in terms of steel coverage. Overall its a really strong pokemon with the current stats and I think the council will be looking at it to see if it should be banned in the meantime until it rises from NU.

Another contrary user that I have been using occasionally is Malamar. I made a team a while back with it and I found it to still be a threat now.
It too is NU and has decent enough stats for the role I gave it - 101/107/103/83/90/88. The addition of Knock Off makes it more potent. (previously i used night slash or psycho cut)

Malamar @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This functions as a bulky set up sweeper that is actually quite hard to stop. Its best match ups are against more balanced or defensive teams. With superpower raising both attack and defense it can become unbreakable pretty quickly for some teams. Evs maximise the lower special defense which won't be boosted. Knock off allows malamar to at least somewhat hinder the fairies that counter it, and can soften up any non mega check in general. Rest Talk was chosen for the recovery and so toxic and stuff from the likes of alomomola doesn't hinder it. Also sleep talk can make up for superpowers 8 pp. Overall its pretty nice against stall if you remove fairies, since anything else defensive will struggle to 3hko.
 
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While I would be quite happy with wingull getting a +20 boost, you have to think a bit more. Lets look at some (somewhat) good ts pokemon in pu or below: Haunter, Victreebel, Ninetails, Politoed, Shedinja (lol), Sawsbuck, Lickilicky, and Chatot*. These are only ones that I immediately noticed while scrolling through the teambuilder. Also serperior until it goes up a tier. Everything would die.
Anyways, sun would really benefit from this, as with rain, so weather wars would become even more popular. The best part of this tier is diversity in my opinion, and that would remove some of it. Also, these are common already because they are amazing, and boosting their setters and some abusers would just make it better.
* Underlined ones help sun while italics helps rain.

Time for calcs!!!
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 265-312 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 299-354 (57.3 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
192+ Atk Life Orb Victreebel Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 156-185 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- 25.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
64 SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory in Sun: 463-546 (138.6 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 138-163 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Ninetales Solar Beam vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 250-296 (49.9 - 59%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 265-313 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Ik it would use stone edge, but damn)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 260-306 (61.3 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 357-420 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 164-194 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 214-253 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 464-548 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 251-296 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 274-325 (52.5 - 62.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 192+ Atk Life Orb Victreebel Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 312-368 (67.2 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 276-325 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Solar Beam vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 500-590 (99.8 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 289-341 (62.2 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 398-469 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

EDIT: Also why would you want cancer to be more powerful? #killtehchatot
 
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While I would be quite happy with wingull getting a +20 boost, you have to think a bit more. Lets look at some (somewhat) good ts pokemon in pu or below: Haunter, Victreebel, Ninetails, Politoed, Shedinja (lol), Sawsbuck, Lickilicky, and Chatot*. These are only ones that I immediately noticed while scrolling through the teambuilder. Also serperior until it goes up a tier. Everything would die.
Anyways, sun would really benefit from this, as with rain, so weather wars would become even more popular. The best part of this tier is diversity in my opinion, and that would remove some of it. Also, these are common already because they are amazing, and boosting their setters and some abusers would just make it better.
* Underlined ones help sun while italics helps rain.

Time for calcs!!!
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 265-312 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 299-354 (57.3 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
192+ Atk Life Orb Victreebel Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 156-185 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- 25.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
64 SpA Life Orb Victreebel Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory in Sun: 463-546 (138.6 - 163.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 138-163 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Ninetales Solar Beam vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 250-296 (49.9 - 59%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 265-313 (81 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Ik it would use stone edge, but damn)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Politoed: 260-306 (61.3 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 357-420 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 164-194 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 214-253 (64.4 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 464-548 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 251-296 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 274-325 (52.5 - 62.3%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 192+ Atk Life Orb Victreebel Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 312-368 (67.2 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia in Sun: 276-325 (59.4 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Solar Beam vs. 120 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 500-590 (99.8 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 289-341 (62.2 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Chatot Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 398-469 (85.7 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

EDIT: Also why would you want cancer to be more powerful? #killtehchatot
Lets not forget that PU probably won't be a real tier for at least another year and even if it was one we can cancer the bans.
 
Here's a thought, not sure if it's been discussed, (I'm too lazy to look through ~15 pages of posts), but here goes.

What if every pokemon in Ubers had each of their stats Subtracted? I'm not sure how much, maybe 10 is a good number.

Fruit for thought. Please input! :)
 
*bump*
seriously why is this so dead, it's a pretty good tier
also
[20:58:55] +insanelegend: Well over half the ts council agrees offense should be banned in ts
[20:59:23] +insanelegend: So its stall only in ts
[20:59:27] +insanelegend: That is all
Let's start some discussion on stall in TS to bring this thread back.
 
I don't know anything about stall and I think it's everywhere with Alomomola, Chansey, and Cresselia.

I actually want to discuss some pokes who got boost in February, especially Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Terrakion, and Virizion. What does anyone think of these pokes?
 
I made a second revision of my team because of these changes that swapped out two Pokemon. The two I added were Mega Pinsir and Virizion. I've always liked Virizion, and the extra 5 compared to when it was RU just makes it feel that much better to use. Pinsir I went for honestly just because it's a really strong presence on any team.
 
Looks likes its time for the council to do something...


Tier Shift Suspect #1: Chatot / Chatter

As many of you are aware, the OMs STABmons and AAA have recently placed restrictions or bans upon the use of the move Chatter due to it being uncompetitive. The Tier Shift council was about to due the same when one of the members brought up a good point. Why ban one move on a pokemon that makes it broken when you could simply ban the broken pokemon for being broken. Some examples of this include not nerfing Aegislash by getting rid of Aegislash instead of King's Shield, or banning Darkrai without considering the ban of Dark Void (which is laregly luck reliant). However, Chatter is viewed as different for many as being uncompetitive and therefore banning the move will solve the problem (much like the ban of Swaggr for being too uncompetitive). Chatot may be healthy for the metagame and perfectly fine if it doesn't have access to its signature more. It should be noted that Chatot is still plently powerful on its own without Chatter as it retains Nasty Plot and Boomburst. This potent combination allows Chatot to blow past many walls with ease. It can even 2HKO Chansey at +2 if it has a Life Orb. Even with a weakness to Stealth Rocks and poor bulk it is still a major threat with a decent speed tier and a lot of offensive potential. Please help the council decide whether we should ban Chatot or Chatter. Even though you may not be able to vote, your opinions still have power to influence our decision
 
I have comparatively little experience with Tier Shift, but on the whole I found Chatot to be perfectly balanced and interesting other than Chatter abuse. I'd rather it stay in as a useful, cool piece that isn't broken or anything, and Chatter go, since it's the key problem. I don't think I have anything substantive to add beyond that though.
 
I should say that the reason that kings shield wasn't banned is that it would make Aegislash utter shit and therefore banning it was the better solution. The reason Dark Void wasn't banned is that it is on one of smearguls best sets in standard. Banning chatter, however, would cause neither of the above problems and would only balance out chatot.
 
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