Don't Use That: Use This (VGC'15 edition)

[Martin]

parts of op stolen from OU edition

Don't Use That, Use This
if anyone can do artwork for this I'll give you credit

The purpose of this thread is to educate newer players about which Pokemon and sets are good, which Pokemon and sets aren't, and why. This will ultimately lead to a better player base. Here is an example of how you should format your responses:
​

Don't use this:
[image of Pokemon (can be found here by replacing "cresselia" in the URL with the Pokemon you are looking for)]
[pokemon's name] @ [item]
Ability:
EVs:
IVs: (if applicable)
____ Nature
- [move 1]
- [move 2]
- [move 3]
- [move 4]

Why it's bad:[explain]

Instead, use this:
[image of Pokemon (can be found here by replacing "cresselia" with the Pokemon you are looking for)]
[pokemon's name] @ [item]
Ability:
EVs:
IVs: (if applicable)
____ Nature
- [move 1]
- [move 2]
- [move 3]
- [move 4]

Why it's better:
[explain]

Archive

Empty

Rules:
- Don't use this thread just to bash certain Pokemon.
- Make sure your examples are relevant.
- Please stay on topic.
- Make sure to back up your arguments with relevant information. As in more than just a sentence or two.

 

[Taliheim]

Don't use this:

Florges @

Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Psychic
- Helping Hand/Wish/Aromatherapy

Why it's bad:
Why do people still use this? In the beginning of XY, Florges looked like a promising Pokemon, with 112 Special Attack and an insane Special Defense stat, as well as rocking the new Fairy-typing. It also gained several supportive moves, which let it act outside of simply attacking. And I will admit, it's not actually that bad. There's just one pokemon that so happens to almost completely outclasses it:

Instead, use this:

Sylveon @

/

Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 92 HP / 116 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball/Protect
- Psyshock/Protect
- HP

/HP

/Hyper Beam/Helping Hand/Protect

Why it's better:
Sylveon is a contender for one of the best Pokemon in VGC '15, ranking third in usage on PS! with a whopping 28% of teams having it, only lower than Landog and Mega Mom. It's claim to fame is Pixilate Hyper voice; with a Choice Specs equipped, it can far outdamage anything that Florges could hope to accomplish offensively. Sylveon also has some supporting moves of her own; most notably Helping Hand, which is even seen on Specs variants. However, Florges isn't 100% outclassed; it can work well as a defensive Pokemon paired with a Grass-type.

 

[Mymble]

reserving M-Altaria -> Sylveon

This isn't true at all, Mega Altaria has a serious niche over Sylveon in access to Fire Blast and Tailwind, as well as having better physical bulk. Mega Altaria does take up the mega slot, so sylveon is generally easier to slap on a team. Whereas you will be team building around Mega Altaria, due to the fact that it is your Mega Pokemon. Sylveon isn't a Pokemon you should use instead of Mega Altaria; Sylveon is a Pokemon which is easier to use and preforms a similar role, however isn't going to have a team built around it in the same way as Mega Altaria. It is the distinction in team building and their subtle differences that keep Sylveon being downright the single option between the two of them.

 

[Martin]

reserving M-Altaria -> Sylveon

I suggest instead doing Sylveon>Florges instead as, in addition to what Chenkovsky said on the topic of M-Altaria, they play near identical roles to one another, except Sylveon outclasses Florges in all of them due to Pixilate.

 

[Taliheim]

I suggest instead doing Sylveon>Florges instead as, in addition to what Chenkovsky said on the topic of M-Altaria, they play near identical roles to one another, except Sylveon outclasses Florges in all of them due to Pixilate.

True. I guess that's what I get for jumping on the internet right when I get out of bed. I'll change it.

 

[Pyritie]

I suggest instead doing Sylveon>Florges instead as, in addition to what Chenkovsky said on the topic of M-Altaria, they play near identical roles to one another, except Sylveon outclasses Florges in all of them due to Pixilate.

Only in an offensive role. It's not a bad partner for offensive grass types with flower veil -- florges + ferrothorn is a thing.

 

[Martin]

Only in an offensive role. It's not a bad partner for offensive grass types with flower veil -- florges + ferrothorn is a thing.

Yeah, I guess that's the case. But more often than not, Florges is a mediocre choice over Sylveon, which is why I suggested the change to that, with Florges' ability being insanely situational.

 

[DeskLampNinja]

Kangaskhan>Lopunny might be a good thing to do here. I don't have enough experience with the format to write the analysis myself, but someone might want to consider it.

 

[Mr.E]

Even when Pixilate Hyper Voice wasn't a thing in VGC14, Sylveon largely outclasses Florges simply because it has a better stat distribution. Florges has 27 BST over Sylveon and yet it doesn't take advantage of that at all. It's all SpD and yet Florges is no more specially tanky than Sylveon, and less physically, because it has garbage-tier HP. Florges also has very situational abilities, where even Cute Charm on Sylveon is at least something (which doesn't matter so much now), and a worse support movepool. Florges' most notable advantage is an extra 15 base Speed which isn't that big a deal in their Speed bracket.

But man, VGC has a lot of very niche things that can be good on the right team, more so than standard ol' OU because of how doubles works. Did anyone expect Pachirisu to win Worlds? Would it surprise you to hear that I took Umbreon with me to Ft. Wayne in October and it was fantastic every single time in the 50% of matches I used it? It's difficult to blanket state "don't use that" about something, unless you just mean in general to simply things for newbies.

 

[Taliheim]

Even when Pixilate Hyper Voice wasn't a thing in VGC14, Sylveon largely outclasses Florges simply because it has a better stat distribution. Florges has 27 BST over Sylveon and yet it doesn't take advantage of that at all. It's all SpD and yet Florges is no more specially tanky than Sylveon, and less physically, because it has garbage-tier HP. Florges also has very situational abilities, where even Cute Charm on Sylveon is at least something (which doesn't matter so much now), and a worse support movepool. Florges' most notable advantage is an extra 15 base Speed which isn't that big a deal in their Speed bracket.

But man, VGC has a lot of very niche things that can be good on the right team, more so than standard ol' OU because of how doubles works. Did anyone expect Pachirisu to win Worlds? Would it surprise you to hear that I took Umbreon with me to Ft. Wayne in October and it was fantastic every single time in the 50% of matches I used it? It's difficult to blanket state "don't use that" about something, unless you just mean in general to simply things for newbies.

mind if I copy/paste the first paragraph into my analysis?