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Resource RU Viability Ranking: ORAS Edition
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
I know it was definitely an S-rank RU mon in 5th gen, so that may be what he(/she) was referring to.
HypnoEmpire
Yokatta...
After hilarious nommed Mega Steelix for S, I was really skeptical about it, so I tried it out and after some testing, I came to the conclusion that it's REALLY solid. S rank is way too much of a rise though, so I'll nom it for A- rank (at least for now, probably needs to raise higher tbh). Also, I'll probably ramble a bit so bear with me lol.
The set I used the most was a Curse+Rest Mega Snake (pretty sure it's the one hilarious used) with Heavy Slam, Earthquake, and a SpD spread. This set alone can destroy stall almost single-handedly. It can set up on a ton of stuff like Cresselia, Bronzong, Registeel, Golbat (potential Taunt can suck), Aromatisse, Alomomola, Meloetta, Fletchinder, Doublade, Escavalier, Jolteon, Magneton... and the list goes on. It absorbs Volt Switch really well, is immune to Toxic and T-Wave (I guess it doesnt matter too much with Rest but w/e), it is super bulky and really strong after just 1-2 boosts and can run a defensive Stealth Rock set pretty well too with Roar. It's a great switch-in to Dragalge, which is awesome. Not dead weight vs more offensive oriented teams since it's so bulky, it can switch into some stuff seen on offense and retaliate with a stronk Heavy Slam or Earthquake. Sand isn't really a thing, so its ability is useless most of the time, but that hardly matters. Probably missed some stuff, but I think you guys get the overall idea.
Overall, Mega Snake is a really bulky stall breaker that is extremely useful both offensively and defensively and has enough going for it to be in the A ranks, at least A- imo.
The set I used the most was a Curse+Rest Mega Snake (pretty sure it's the one hilarious used) with Heavy Slam, Earthquake, and a SpD spread. This set alone can destroy stall almost single-handedly. It can set up on a ton of stuff like Cresselia, Bronzong, Registeel, Golbat (potential Taunt can suck), Aromatisse, Alomomola, Meloetta, Fletchinder, Doublade, Escavalier, Jolteon, Magneton... and the list goes on. It absorbs Volt Switch really well, is immune to Toxic and T-Wave (I guess it doesnt matter too much with Rest but w/e), it is super bulky and really strong after just 1-2 boosts and can run a defensive Stealth Rock set pretty well too with Roar. It's a great switch-in to Dragalge, which is awesome. Not dead weight vs more offensive oriented teams since it's so bulky, it can switch into some stuff seen on offense and retaliate with a stronk Heavy Slam or Earthquake. Sand isn't really a thing, so its ability is useless most of the time, but that hardly matters. Probably missed some stuff, but I think you guys get the overall idea.
Overall, Mega Snake is a really bulky stall breaker that is extremely useful both offensively and defensively and has enough going for it to be in the A ranks, at least A- imo.
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Hey you guys listened to me and moved mega Glalie up (also sorry for my inactivity lately. Irl stuff)
I played around with Mega Snake in the Bunny era, and it's actually super solid. Amazing bulk, solid 125 Attack, and a few amount of sets (DTail phaser, SR, Curse, ResTalk, all out attacker) it can certainty find its way on any team, especially ones that need that steel type (important in this meta). A- is a good place for it.
I played around with Mega Snake in the Bunny era, and it's actually super solid. Amazing bulk, solid 125 Attack, and a few amount of sets (DTail phaser, SR, Curse, ResTalk, all out attacker) it can certainty find its way on any team, especially ones that need that steel type (important in this meta). A- is a good place for it.
FEraligatr should ebnominated to rank A , he gets ice punch and just dont care about grass types at all after a SD. And why in earth is it currently C+ Rank_
I can't help but notice the complete absence of Samurott from this list. Personally I use it solely as a counter to Gligar, as I can't find much else of a niche for it. Maybe C or C+ as I feel it has more viability than Kricketune and Ditto.
Also, can I have some clarification for why Ambipom is E Rank? I use a Technician set with Fake Out, Knock Off, U-Turn, and Low Sweep, and it is one of the best performing members of my team.
Also, can I have some clarification for why Ambipom is E Rank? I use a Technician set with Fake Out, Knock Off, U-Turn, and Low Sweep, and it is one of the best performing members of my team.
Samurott is rather functionally eclipsed by Clawitzer, which has much more powerful coverage moves to smash the tier's Water resists with, and the argument that Samurott can go mixed is rendered obsolete as Clawitzer already hits most of mixed Samurott's targets with its regular moves. Samurott, as a whole, does not offer much over other Water-types in the tier.
This is also another example of a Pokemon that is highly outclassed. There are far better Normal-types one can try out, such as Tauros, Kangaskhan, Zangoose, etc... that can put in more work than Ambipom can with that overrated Technician Fake Out. Kangaskhan and even Kecleon make better Fake Out users (especially the former due to Scrappy) since they have better bulk, and can easily overtake Ambipom's Technician boost with additional priority in Sucker Punch. Tauros, Zangoose, and Cinccino are much more threatening for opponents to face since they have more power and superior coverage, instead of being a huge momentum suck against bulkier opponents like Ambipom is. If Ambipom is one of your best performing members, I suggest you try out other Normal-types or, more importantly, reevaluate your team.
Yeah I meant gen 5 :)
Kadabra
-> C
Gets decent Sp.ATK and speed. Has the ability to potentially keep an unbroken sash while hazards are up due to magic guard. Life Orb could be a decent wall breaker with calm mind letting it set up on alomomola. I like this mon and think it should be at least C rank. One drawback could be it's low Phy. defense
Gets decent Sp.ATK and speed. Has the ability to potentially keep an unbroken sash while hazards are up due to magic guard. Life Orb could be a decent wall breaker with calm mind letting it set up on alomomola. I like this mon and think it should be at least C rank. One drawback could be it's low Phy. defense
I'm going to have to disagree with this only because Sigilyph sorta outclasses it (and can run similar sets) which also, like many, sets up on Alomomola. Sigilyph has lower speed and special attack but it has better defenses which is pretty helpful with calm mind. Plus Sigilyph has better coverage compared to Kadabra (Heat wave, Air slash)Kadabra-> C
Gets decent Sp.ATK and speed. Has the ability to potentially keep an unbroken sash while hazards are up due to magic guard. Life Orb could be a decent wall breaker with calm mind letting it set up on alomomola. I like this mon and think it should be at least C rank. One drawback could be it's low Phy. defense
and it seems like the only thing Kadabra has over Sigilyph would be encore, I guess
that would be the point seeing as it's faster and stronger and gets encore calm mind and a few good moves . Seeing ass with calm mind sigilyph can only pick from 1 coverage or 2 if you drop air slash. Where as if sigilyph could run sash it wouldn't be good as it needs to have decent atk with life orb.
The speed difference isnt /that/ relevant, as the only things Kadabra outspeeds that Sigilyph doesnt is Mega Glalie, Pidgeot before it megas, and Delphox. Meanwhile Sigilyph has salvageable bulk, better coverage, and reliable recovery. I, among probably many others, would like to see some relevant calcs where outpowering Sigilyph is useful and some replays where it did something Sigilyph couldn't if you really want it to have a spot on the rankings.
i
I can name multiple mons that it outspeeds besides those and with sash it's a revenge killer. It has more attack than it and what mons don't carry a super efective hit for sigi. Kadabra also gets dazzling gleam which hits dark types.
While I honestly don't care whether or not Kadabra is ranked, Sigilyph has Dazzling Gleam as well, and a secondary STAB move to hit Dark-types with. I don't understand your argument.
nobody is running dazzle over their coverage and my point is i like to use kadabra as a revenge killer.
I haven't played with Kadabra at all in gen 6 (though I have seen it used on a joke team and it seemed alright), but I think it being ranked makes sense. C rank is probably too high, as there are just so many good psychic-types in the tier, and while it definitely has a unique niche with its high Special Attack, Speed, Encore, and Magic Guard its still hard to justify the use of Kadabra in the tier. I really think C rank is a stretch in the current meta game, and could see it more as a C- or D rank Pokemon, and while its not really true that Sigilyph outclasses it, it is definitely fair to say that Sigilyph outclasses Calm Mind variants of Kadabra which is both hard to set up, and not nearly as effective at breaking stall as Sigi is. On top of this, while Kadabra has a really cool movepool, with coverage options like Dazzling Gleam, Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball and then HP of course, you can't really say "well sigi doesn't run dazzling gleam" because Sigi can run Dazzling Gleam, it just also gets cool moves like Heat Wave, Air Slash (STAB), Energy Ball, Ice Beam and Dark Pulse so if it isn't running Dazzling Gleam its due to the fact it has a more impressive movepool (which is a negative for Kadabra).
If I were to use Kadabra in RU I would probably use sash 3 attacks + encore with Psychic, Dazzling Gleam or Signal Beam, and HP fire or HP ground. I'll maybe give this a spin after tier shifts, but for now I'd say maybe add Kadabra to D rank or C- rank, I don't really know for sure o.o
If I were to use Kadabra in RU I would probably use sash 3 attacks + encore with Psychic, Dazzling Gleam or Signal Beam, and HP fire or HP ground. I'll maybe give this a spin after tier shifts, but for now I'd say maybe add Kadabra to D rank or C- rank, I don't really know for sure o.o
Also for the record Sigilyph can in fact run a Focus Sash set just the same as Kadabra. I've never seen anybody else use it before, but I have tried it myself a few months ago and it was somewhat effective. It is a little bit weaker and slower than Kadabra, that is true, but I'd honestly prefer the additional great coverage options over the small number of things Kadabra outspeeds and slightly more damage.
I seriously think it is a shame to see Feraligatr in C+ Rank.
I fully believe it deserves to be B+ at least because of its ability to take advantage of the presence of very very passive Pokemon Around such as Alomomola and Gligar, Bronzong, and a lot more that just give it free Sword Dances (mola loses to Sub SD very hard but also loses to Lum Berry most of the time if SDef as at +4 Return does more than 60%) and start a sweep. It is ridicolously anti meta and beats conventional revenge killers like Moltres and pretty much anything weakened with +2 Aqua Jet. It is also remarkably bulky and to quote Molk on IRC "It is surprising how Feraligatr takes ridicolous hits every time that put it in Torrent and make it even more scary.". Its influence in the tier is also testamented in SPL game Bouffalant versus Hikari in which Heliolisk was used over other Electric-types just because of Feraligatr and the ridicolous score it has in SPL matches.
I also fully think Steelix might deserve a bump to B+ because outside of the considerable opportunity cost there is in using it (especially with Pidgeot in the tier) it is such a threat to offensive and balanced teams with offensive sets that hit really hard with Heavy Slam and Curse sets that are very scary to slower builds in general. It also fucks Cresselia so why not.
I fully believe it deserves to be B+ at least because of its ability to take advantage of the presence of very very passive Pokemon Around such as Alomomola and Gligar, Bronzong, and a lot more that just give it free Sword Dances (mola loses to Sub SD very hard but also loses to Lum Berry most of the time if SDef as at +4 Return does more than 60%) and start a sweep. It is ridicolously anti meta and beats conventional revenge killers like Moltres and pretty much anything weakened with +2 Aqua Jet. It is also remarkably bulky and to quote Molk on IRC "It is surprising how Feraligatr takes ridicolous hits every time that put it in Torrent and make it even more scary.". Its influence in the tier is also testamented in SPL game Bouffalant versus Hikari in which Heliolisk was used over other Electric-types just because of Feraligatr and the ridicolous score it has in SPL matches.
I also fully think Steelix might deserve a bump to B+ because outside of the considerable opportunity cost there is in using it (especially with Pidgeot in the tier) it is such a threat to offensive and balanced teams with offensive sets that hit really hard with Heavy Slam and Curse sets that are very scary to slower builds in general. It also fucks Cresselia so why not.
This may very well be a stretch, but I would like to nominate Pangoro from A+ --> S rank. I do very well consider Pangoro to be a very metagame-defining presence atm and even comparable to the likes of dragalge in terms of sheer wallbreaking prowess. We already know that with its near-perfect STAB combination and access to a variety of other coverage options (Gunk shot for Aromatisse and other fairies, ice punch for the ubiquitous Gligar who otherwise checks the panda, even iron head for sd set for reliable hitting opposing fairies and OHKOeing Phys def. aromatise after one sd and sr damage), it can give common walls/tanks a lot of trouble. Sure, like dragalge it's rather slow (though it's fast enough to outspeed the majority of walls in this metagame, forcing golbat to run quite a bit of speed just to check it better), but it can even threaten offense as it can typically be brought in by slow volturns or double switches and once it comes in, next to nothing wants to switch in . Even hard checks like gligar and golbat hate taking a powerful knock off and losing their eviolite (I would argue that Pangoro especially abuses the utility of knock off, as common switch ins to Pangoro like aromatisse and especially gligar/golbat hate taking a knock off, especially the latter). It can be rather versatile; in addition to the coverage options it now has along with its amazing STAB combination, it brings added utility not only with one of the strongest (if not the strongest knock off in the tier) but with parting shot. Pangoro often forces switch ins (as little switch ins it has) and consequently can bring momentum to the table as a result with parting shot. Pangoro also typically takes care of threats that other S rank mons hate (such as bulky steels like bronzong, registeel, or rock types liek Rhyperior, Regirock) and makes a great offensive duo with things like Pidgeot, dragalge, moltres, M-Glalie, etc. Compared to some of the other S rank threats, I do think it fits in S rank and highly view it as much as a threat as the likes of dragalge, Sceptile, etc.
Edit: Just to bring this into perspective, I would argue that it requires little support (pretty much the support that dragalge needs like ability to safely bring it in which isn't really difficult as pangoro works well both offensively and even defensively with common volt turners like eelek, pidge, etc. Overall, I think that Pangoro's weaknesses are thoroughly mitigated by its strengths which is why I think S fits it well.
Edit: Just to bring this into perspective, I would argue that it requires little support (pretty much the support that dragalge needs like ability to safely bring it in which isn't really difficult as pangoro works well both offensively and even defensively with common volt turners like eelek, pidge, etc. Overall, I think that Pangoro's weaknesses are thoroughly mitigated by its strengths which is why I think S fits it well.
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I think Jolteon should get a bump to A-. Max speed Jolteon pretty much stops the two most threatening megas in RU in their tracks (Mega Pidgeot with an electric move and Mega Sceptile with HP Ice.) And it outspeeds everything, bar some Choice Scarfers. Coupled with Shadow Ball which checks Bronzong, this is a beast. No wonder it was OU last gen. Air Balloon also can help, as it negates it's only weakness, and even though it can't take a hit, this is outweighed.
I also think that Pangoro should get a bump to S Rank. I love Pangoro, and with it's buff in ORAS, (getting Ice Punch and Gunk Shot which covers two of it's three weaknesses)
it is truly a force to be reckoned with. It can cripple Golbat and Gligar with knocking off their eviolites and then killing with Ice Punch. Poison Jab or Gunk Shot counters Aromatisse, possibly Pangoro's biggest threat, and it dosen't need support much. Iron Fist helps with Drain Punch, and Assault Vest helps to take a hit and dish out the pain.
Finally, Ambipom is NOT BAD. It should be C- Rank at the very least. It's sorta unpredictable. You don't know whether your opponent is running Techinician or Skill Link (not Pickup, but Technician is really better than Skill Link) until the second turn, and Normal Gem boosted Technician Fake Out can take down half HP to non-resisted pokes. It also gets Knock Off and Low Kick. Everyone knows how useful Knock Off is, and Low Kick can kill heavyweights. Power-Up-Punch can help as well. It gets elemental punches too.
I also think that Pangoro should get a bump to S Rank. I love Pangoro, and with it's buff in ORAS, (getting Ice Punch and Gunk Shot which covers two of it's three weaknesses)
it is truly a force to be reckoned with. It can cripple Golbat and Gligar with knocking off their eviolites and then killing with Ice Punch. Poison Jab or Gunk Shot counters Aromatisse, possibly Pangoro's biggest threat, and it dosen't need support much. Iron Fist helps with Drain Punch, and Assault Vest helps to take a hit and dish out the pain.
Finally, Ambipom is NOT BAD. It should be C- Rank at the very least. It's sorta unpredictable. You don't know whether your opponent is running Techinician or Skill Link (not Pickup, but Technician is really better than Skill Link) until the second turn, and Normal Gem boosted Technician Fake Out can take down half HP to non-resisted pokes. It also gets Knock Off and Low Kick. Everyone knows how useful Knock Off is, and Low Kick can kill heavyweights. Power-Up-Punch can help as well. It gets elemental punches too.
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not sure aboat this unpredictability, you just switch in to something that resists Normal and Low Kick doesn't even 2HKO
You've got it backwards. Ambipom is incredibly predictable, which comes with its only niche being Technician-boosted Fake Outs. Even then, if I wanted a Fake Out user, why would I choose Ambipom when I can choose a Kangaskhan or even Kecleon, both of which can actually do something else fairly well?
Except you do know what ability it's running, because it has nothing good to use Skill Link with. Additionally, plenty of mons can 2HKO things with decently powerful priority moves (such as the aforementioned Kangaskhan and Kecleon). Knock Off is admittedly a decent thing it has over Kangaskhan though.
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 135-161 (38.1 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Mega Steelix Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Ambipom: 273-322 (93.8 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Try again. As for Power-Up Punch, Ambipom usually doesn't survive long enough to set up with it, due to having awful 75/66/66 bulk, and is still fairly weak after a boost due to only average Attack. Overall, it's just plain outclassed by most other Normal-types in the tier (Kangaskhan, Cinccino, Kecleon, etc.).
Seriously though, Ambipom is bad. Like, really really bad. It can do nothing to Stall/Balance, and against offense, where it has it "best" shot against, it can't reliably OHKO most of the common offensive Pokemon, while is OHKOed back due its miserable frailty. Its speed is also not that much of a blessing considering Mega Sceptile and Mega Pidgeot running everywhere. Ambipom is only ranked because it's RU lol. One day it'll fall and have the same fate as Electivire. Besides, it's a worse Cinccino.
I second Hikari's idea of moving Mega-Banette up from C rank to B- rank. Looking at Mega-Banette purely from an offensive/Destiny bond perspective, it's easy to see how it can provide other Pokemon the ability to switch in and take advantage of it's ghost typing (which isn't exactly desirable in RU right now) or resisted STAB moves. Dark types can have a field day with this. It's also a bit difficult to switch in due to the lack of resists it has. However, the ability Prankster and access to a variety of status moves gives it a niche in that it has the ability to status threatening pokemon like no other in the tier. I've been running a Will-o-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Shadow Claw(or Knock-off)/Destiny Bond set right now and it can weaken several top tier threats such as Pangoro, Drapion, Spiritomb, Doublade, and most steels with burns (assuming no lum berry) and fast pokemon such as Mega-Sceptile, Mega-Pidgeot, Moltres and Serperior with paralysis. Mind you, paralysis was mostly a last ditch effort to stop threatening pokemon, but since RU has a lot of slow pokemon the ability to make the fast pokemon slower in the tier holds special weight in enabling slower but strong pokemon the opportunity to avoid revenge kills. A strong knock-off also can remove lum berry's from switch ins expecting to take burns, such as Pangoro or Drapion. The ability to hit opponents hard or use destiny bond was a bonus and it had the utility of being able to scare out psychics such as Reuniclus, Cresselia or Slowking if push comes to shove. It's hard to say that Mega-Banette has the utility of higher tier pokemon due to it's situational nature, but the role as an effective status spreader has enough of a niche that it should be considered with higher weight than the more specialized pokemon that typically reside in C rank.
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