VGC 2015: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

[Nelson Tangela]

What are some good partners for a dragalge on a trick room team? I figure cresselia is a good setter (and also helps with its ground weakness) but a lot of the other great TR mons are weak to ground. (Camerupt, mawile, etc)

Bronzong hasn't been used by anyone in ages, because it's outclassed by Cresselia, but it actually resists all of Dragalges weaknesses and can kill Fairy-types with STAB Steel-attacks or support with Metal Sound while Dragalge spams STAB Choice Specs Adabtability Draco Meteor or Sludge Wave. Add a special Mega Camerupt to kill opposing Steel-types and you have a pretty unique core that might actually work...

 

[Pyritie]

Bronzong hasn't been used by anyone in ages, because it's outclassed by Cresselia, but it actually resists all of Dragalges weaknesses and can kill Fairy-types with STAB Steel-attacks or support with Metal Sound while Dragalge spams STAB Choice Specs Adabtability Draco Meteor or Sludge Wave. Add a special Mega Camerupt to kill opposing Steel-types and you have a pretty unique core that might actually work...

I guess hariyama or conkeldurr would also be a good partner then, to help scare off bisharps?

 

[Nelson Tangela]

I guess hariyama or conkeldurr would also be a good partner then, to help scare off bisharps?

Sounds good. Hariyama could also help you set up Trick Room with Fake Out.

 

[Taliheim]

I guess hariyama or conkeldurr would also be a good partner then, to help scare off bisharps?

That would be a good idea, they would also give you a secondary Steel check/counter. However, they're actually pretty different:

Conkeldurr hits harder, takes more hits, and has access to priority + recovery in Drain Punch.
Hariyama gives Fake Out support to make Trick Room setting easier and is compatible with more items than Conk - it can effectively use Expert Belt, Life Orb, Sitrus Berry, Assault Vest, and even items like Muscle Band and Custap Berry.

edit: I kinda want to make a Custap Berry Hariyama Trick Room team now ;_;

 

[SeawolfPride'17]

Hey everyone, I'm having trouble deciding on a nature and EV spread for my Rotom-Wash. I currently have one that's Bold with 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe, but I feel like this isn't the best. For natures I'm deciding between calm and modest. If I go with calm, the EV spread would likely be 252 HP / 44 Def / 44 SpA / 140 SpD / 28 Spe, and I'm not sure what I would do for EVs on a modest one. Let me know what you guys think!

 

[Taliheim]

Hey everyone, I'm having trouble deciding on a nature and EV spread for my Rotom-Wash. I currently have one that's Bold with 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe, but I feel like this isn't the best. For natures I'm deciding between calm and modest. If I go with calm, the EV spread would likely be 252 HP / 44 Def / 44 SpA / 140 SpD / 28 Spe, and I'm not sure what I would do for EVs on a modest one. Let me know what you guys think!

First, don't re-engineer your Singles Rotom for VGC - breed a new one instead. Trust me. As for the EV spread, it really comes down to what you want it to do. Do you want it to OHKO 4 HP / 0 Def Landog? Do you want to make Ludicolo's Giga Drain a 3HKO with Sitrus? Do you want to outspeed Bisharp to burn it before it attacks? it's all up to what you think would benefit the team in general.

 

[Chipndip]

Bronzong hasn't been used by anyone in ages, because it's outclassed by Cresselia, but it actually resists all of Dragalges weaknesses and can kill Fairy-types with STAB Steel-attacks or support with Metal Sound while Dragalge spams STAB Choice Specs Adabtability Draco Meteor or Sludge Wave. Add a special Mega Camerupt to kill opposing Steel-types and you have a pretty unique core that might actually work...

problem:

What are some good partners for a dragalge on a trick room team? I figure cresselia is a good setter (and also helps with its ground weakness) but a lot of the other great TR mons are weak to ground. (Camerupt, mawile, etc)

Anywho, a good partner for Dragalge would probably be Gastrodon. Ice Beam takes out Lando and Garchomp while being bulky enough to take on almost any move that isn't Grass...which is its only weakness, anyway. You could also run a slow Inimidate user...like Mawile, or even breed a slow Gyarados (but that's just REALLY off the cuff). I'd mainly say Gastrodon, though.

Also, don't use Sludge Wave in VGC. Number 1 issue I have on this site is when people suggest Stealth Rocks, Spikes, Toxic (Spikes), and Sludge Wave in the VGC section. >_>

 

[Nelson Tangela]

problem:

Levitate Bronzong + 3-4 other team members to cover Ground-types...

Using Metal Sound with Bronzong on the bulkier opponent while Dragalge spams Life Orb / Choice Specs Adaptability STAB Sludge Wave on the field is actually pretty nice, IF Trick Room is active.

 

[Chipndip]

Levitate Bronzong + 3-4 other team members to cover Ground-types...

Using Metal Sound with Bronzong on the bulkier opponent while Dragalge spams Choice Specs Adaptability STAB Sludge Wave on the field is actually pretty nice, IF Trick Room is active.

Shows how much the thing is used. I forgot it could even get Levitate. So I guess you could scratch that. Still not a fan of that pokemon, seeing how so much of the meta currently sends it reeling in pain on a stretcher, but at least Ground-types aren't one of them.

That aside: The problem with Sludge Wave is that if your partner isn't a Steel-type and you need to use Poison-type coverage, you're legitimately screwed. There's a reason most high-level teams don't use Sludge Wave, even if their pokemon have access to it. Toxic is a bad move, but bad Poison is harsh if you're already damaged.

 

[Nelson Tangela]

Most of your Pokémon will have Protect if you really need to use Sludge Wave next to a non-Steel-type. Being locked into Sludge Wave can backfire on occasion, but if you are afraid of that, just use a Life Orb instead of the Choice Specs. You should be spamming Dragon-type moves anyway and just use Sludge Wave, if both opponents are in Sludge Wave KO range (with Metal Sound support) or you need to kill a Fairy (Belly Drum Azumarill + Follow Me/Rage Powder support says "hi"). Opposing Steel-types WILL be a problem, but that's what the Mega Camerupt is for. Spamming Heat Waves with Metal Sound support...

PS: Nobody is talking about Toxic and if you manage to poison something with Sludge Wave's 10% poison chance... whatever... chip damage means even more damage in your favor.

 

[Chipndip]

Most of your Pokémon will have Protect if you really need to use Sludge Wave next to a non-Steel-type. Being locked into Sludge Wave can backfire on occasion, but if you are afraid of that, just use a Life Orb instead of the Choice Specs. You should be spamming Dragon-type moves anyway and just use Sludge Wave, if both opponents are in Sludge Wave KO range (with Metal Sound support) or you need to kill a Fairy. Opposing Steel-types WILL be a problem, but that's what the Mega Camerupt is for. Spamming Heat Waves with Metal Sound support...

PS: Nobody is talking about Toxic and if you manage to poison something with Sludge Wave's 10% poison chance... whatever... chip damage means even more damage in your favor.

1) Mega Cam could easily OHKO a Steel-type without the use of Metal Sound. Metal Sound is probably gonna be for the non-Steel types.

2) Yes, Life Orb/Expert Belt/one-type boosting items are 10X more preferable than Choice Specs in this occasion. The biggest mistake one can make is choicing themselves into something that friendly fires.

3) Didn't say someone was talking about Toxic. Just said that Poison is actually disastrous if it comes off of something that hits pretty hard to begin with. Turns 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Not a good predicament.

 

[Nelson Tangela]

1) Mega Cam could easily OHKO a Steel-type without the use of Metal Sound. Metal Sound is probably gonna be for the non-Steel types.

2) Yes, Life Orb/Expert Belt/one-type boosting items are 10X more preferable than Choice Specs in this occasion. The biggest mistake one can make is choicing themselves into something that friendly fires.

3) Didn't say someone was talking about Toxic. Just said that Poison is actually disastrous if it comes off of something that hits pretty hard to begin with. Turns 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Not a good predicament.

1) You will encounter enough Heat Wave targets that are neutral to it and Metal Sound helps you turn 2HKOs into OHKOs to make the most out of your limited Trick Room turns. Metal Sound is pretty much Bronzong's way of having an offensive presence, like many other Pokémon try to do with Helping Hand.

2) Yeah, that's why Choice Scarf Landorus-T, the most common moveset on the second most common Pokémon rarely uses Earthquake*. An Earthquake that isn't even boosted by it's Choice item or it's ability. Adding Flying/Levitate/Telepathy Pokémon to your team works for Landorus-T, but the same thing can be said about Sludge Wave and Steel/Telepathy Pokémon. Having multiple Steel-types in a bring 6 pick 4 format, where Mega Kangaskhan is the most common Pokémon and Hyper Voice Sylveon is the third most common Pokemon, isn't that bad of an idea. Adding another Ground-weakness might be, but much like Bronzong, not all Steel-types are weak to Ground-type attacks...

3) If Sludge Wave poisons your partner and that is a big IF, since you are the one who decides when it's used, you are right and might end up being 2HKOed, but it also turns 2HKOs/3HKOs into OHKOs/2HKOs FOR you, which will help you a lot more often than it hurts you, because like I said you decide when to use it and it also hits both of the opponents Pokémon, while only one of yours... in the worst case.

*obvious irony is obvious

 

[Chipndip]

1) You will encounter enough Heat Wave targets that are neutral to it and Metal Sound helps you turn 2HKOs into OHKOs to make the most out of your limited Trick Room turns. Metal Sound is pretty much Bronzong's way of having an offensive presence, like many other Pokémon try to do with Helping Hand.

2) Yeah, that's why Choice Scarf Landorus-T, the most common moveset on the second most common Pokémon rarely uses Earthquake*. An Earthquake that isn't even boosted by it's Choice item or it's ability. Adding Flying/Levitate/Telepathy Pokémon to your team works for Landorus-T, but the same thing can be said about Sludge Wave and Steel/Telepathy Pokémon. Having multiple Steel-types in a bring 6 pick 4 format, where Mega Kangaskhan is the most common Pokémon and Hyper Voice Sylveon is the third most common Pokemon, isn't that bad of an idea. Adding another Ground-weakness might be, but much like Bronzong, not all Steel-types are weak to Ground-type attacks...

3) If Sludge Wave poisons your partner and that is a big IF, since you are the one who decides when it's used, you are right and might end up being 2HKOed, but it also turns 2HKOs/3HKOs into OHKOs/2HKOs FOR you, which will help you a lot more often than it hurts you, because like I said you decide when to use it and it also hits both of the opponents Pokémon, while only one of yours... in the worst case.

*obvious irony is obvious

1 a) We said the same thing on this bullet, so the next 1 is gonna be the future 1.

1 b) Difference is that Rotom and Talonflame don't share weaknesses at all. Bisharp and Bronzong still are both weak to the same Fire-type Heat Wave, which Char Y and Heatran will gladly take advantage of. The reason why EQ is choiced into (and this still isn't bullet proof) is because there's more flexibility on the types of partners that can be immune to it or just ignore the damage + there's no bonus status effect, otherwise Lava Plume and Discharge would be used a good amount as well. A choice specs Sludge Wave without being next to a Steel-type is just something I can't recommend at all because you can't ever stop using it once you start, unless you switch. Just use Sludge Bomb and have the partner attack the other guy.

2) Hitting yourself is a great way to lose the game. I've won a few games I probably shouldn't have because of people going too brave with EQs.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

I'd rather just use Sludge Bomb if you're going that route tbh. The spread damage reduction hurts when you need to hit a Fairy, and odds are the opponent has something else on the field that really gives no fucks about Sludge Wave. Rock, Ground, Steel, and Poison all resist it, and there's really only two reasons not to spam Draco:
1: Can't switch, and/or it'd be a net loss to cripple yourself over the opponent,
2: Fairy type.

Considering our omnipresent Sylveon, this is also important to note:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 176-208 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 151-182 (74.7 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 224-264 (110.8 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 198-234 (98 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

You kind of need to OHKO it, too. Because it 2HKO's you back and its faster.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 93-109 (54 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also adding that Wide Guard isn't exactly rare now thanks to Sylveon and Lando-T, its just a lot safer to Sludge Bomb. Plus, triple the Poison chance to add nice chip damage to things like Cresselia.

But on a different note... is Reflect Type Latias a thing? I know it removes STABs, but on a supportive set, well, a Ghost/Steel type with Levitate could be pretty funny. Or copy a Rotom-W, Raikou, Mega Manectric, Heatran, Entei, etc.
Shame that Latias probably has the most horrific 4MSS I've ever dealt with.

 

[Steven Stone]

Ok, big question: How do i beat Whimsicott before it starts doing its annoying stuff?

 

[hotcoldyay7]

I'd go with Milotic since it does punish players that have the balls to bring an Intimidator against your physical heavy team. Plus, since you're running Tailwind, that forces players to try to cut your speed somehow with moves like Icy Wind or Thunder Wave. Another way of punishing those players is switching in Milotic on an Icy Wind, which gives it the +2 in Special Attack. Furthermore, Milotic does get access to Safeguard (which Suicune doesn't have), which can protect your team from Thunder Waves and Will-o-Wisps if they want to cut your physical mons' attack without activating Milotic's ability. I really don't understand why people are using AV Milotic. People on Nuggetbridge seem to like it also, and I personally think AV Milotic is a terrible option as it doesn't have the offensive movepool to utilize the item effectively. AV Suicune isn't feasible at all for the same reason above that AV Milotic isn't feasible.

Basically, go with Milotic. It provides Speed control, and can protect your Physical heavy team from Intimidates and Status.

Hmm... Now that you say so, AV milotic isnt all that great when it has a wide support movepool to look from.

Do you happen to have a set or spread for a non-AV Milotic? Idk where to start haha

 

[ck49]

Ok, big question: How do i beat Whimsicott before it starts doing its annoying stuff?

Taunt thundurus?

It's going to get 1 move off, barring fake out, but after that it's pretty likely to die in two hits (sash).

 

[ProtoSoul]

Taunt thundurus?

It's going to get 1 move off, barring fake out, but after that it's pretty likely to die in two hits (sash).

The problem is Whimsicott outspeeds Thundurus and also has access to Taunt. The way I've dealt with Whimsicott is double attacking with a Fake Out user to stop any status moves.

 

[hotcoldyay7]

Ok, big question: How do i beat Whimsicott before it starts doing its annoying stuff?

Talonflame, speed boosting nature with enough evs to outspeed max speed whimsicott. I use it to destroy whimsicott, as quick guard will block status moves, and your brave bird will always go first due to faster speed. That's my counter, at least. Otherwise, magic bounch is also nice :3

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Ok, big question: How do i beat Whimsicott before it starts doing its annoying stuff?

Quick Guard > Prankster. Meowstic-M, Mienshao, Ambipom, Scrafty, Infernape, Toxicroak, Mr. Mime, and Hitmontop also get Fake Out+Quick Guard to really troll it. Klefki's Crafty Shield also completely cockblocks Prankster mons, and non-Prankster moves like WoW from Talonflame/Rotom-W/Arcanine/Gengar, Taunt from Aerodactyl or Mega Gyarados, Sleep Powder/Spore from Chlorosaur or Amoonguss, or Encore from Alakazam/Raichu, but obviously leaves you open to Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. And if "annoying stuff" includes Beat Up, Follow Me is the only real way of dealing with it. Oh, and Scizor has Bullet Punch + Quick Guard.

As soon as you fire off Quick Guard, it'll just shit itself and switch out anyway, so it pretty much just turns Whimsicott into a free 4v3.

 

[flargananddingle]

Is hp fire a better choice for specs sylveon or hp ground? Not sure which threats are more prevalent

 

[ProtoSoul]

Is hp fire a better choice for specs sylveon or hp ground? Not sure which threats are more prevalent

I run HP Ground to nail Heatran for 4x who would otherwise wall Sylveon to death.

 

[Laurel]

Is hp fire a better choice for specs sylveon or hp ground? Not sure which threats are more prevalent

Depends on the team, are you weaker to scizor/ferrothorn or heatran.

 

[flargananddingle]

Depends on the team, are you weaker to scizor/ferrothorn or heatran.

I was actually asking more generally on which one to breed. Trying to focus on breeding vgc stuff to giveaway...ended up breeding both ^_^

 

[Ksh13]

Hello

I plan on running an Aegislash with quiet nature and the moves Kings shield, Shadow ball, Flash cannon, Wide guard.
In terms of EV's I am thinking 252 HP/4 Defense/252 Sp.Attack, but should it be EV'd to survive anything?
I do not have a specific team for it, I am probably going to use it for several teams. Just want to know what I should EV'train it for in general.